logo
12 Port News - Features
12 Port History
Casting Numbers
Online Store
Tech Tips
Become a Member
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
#47082 01/20/09 05:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 154
T
trump Offline OP
Contributor
OP Offline
Contributor
T
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 154
Got a new project with a 216. Did they all spin that slow when starting back then? Seems like they spin so slow, and if they spun quicker that they would start easier? Or it just this one?

Any way to improve this? Would a 12v conversion put some juice into it and make it start easier? Is there a 6v starter out there that might be better than the stock one? The battery is new.

Also, what would be the best place to start to make this engine more reliable/start easier in cold weather? I'm assuming carb and ignition?

Thanks.


'40 Studebaker project Chevy 292 powered.
'51 Chevy business coupe 216ci inliner
Inliner's #5360
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 368
Contributor
****
Offline
Contributor
****
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 368
In my experience, starting any 6 volt vehicle is a learning task. I drove my '41 GMC/228/4sp/6volt to work for several years. In my case, choke out 1/2, throttle open about 1/4, crank the engine over 4 or 5 revs and let go of the starter. It usually fired right up. On a six volt when you are cranking it pulls most of the juice so you don't have a good spark, so by cranking just enough to pull a good charge into the cylinders and letting go of the starter you get at least 1 good spark and you have a 1/6 chance that one of the pistons just went over TDC and is ready and willing to fire. Start with a fully charged battery, cranking till it stops doesn't do a thing but heat up the starter and makes you upset. Like I said, just my experience.

Tim


Tim Tenold
I.I.#498
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,613
G
1000 Post Club
Offline
1000 Post Club
G
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,613
Good explanation Tim...

Only starter available is the one you have now.

If you were to convert to 12 volts, you can keep the 6 volt starter. It will start no problem, no mater the weather...


I.I. #3174
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 226
Likes: 1
P
Contributor
*****
Offline
Contributor
*****
P
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 226
Likes: 1
I converted my '48 chev to 12 volts and drove it 6 or 7 yrs. Starter never gave any trouble. 6 volt Chevy starters love 12 volts. Its an easy and worth while conversion and you can have a modern radio-CB-air later as you want it and not worry about where the powers coming from. OH YES did I forget to mention GOOD LIGHTS!!! 1 OL REDNECK


DARRELL KRAFT I.I.#113
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,411
N
1000 Post Club
*****
Offline
1000 Post Club
*****
N
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,411
Clean your grounds.

What size cable are you running between the starter and the battery? Ground leads too.

6 volt needs larger gauge wire than most of us today are used to seeing (at 6 volt, it's got less it can afford to loose, so losses hurt more).

Even with all that working right, don't expect a 6 volt system to behave like a 12, Tim's story is a perfect example. If it's cold it will only perform worse. \:\(

Sorry to be on the bandwagon to change to 12 volt, but you did mention driving it in the cold. Yes, people drove 6 volt before, but all of the folks I know that were around when 6 volt was as delivered OE tend to carry jumper cables. How many people do you know now that don't even own a set?

I suggested the other things so you can drive it now, while you collect parts to do your 12V swap (large leads won't hurt a 12V system).

I'll toss 1 vote for an alternator. Not pretty, or 'period correct' but there's something to be said for being able to walk into just about any auto parts store in the land and even the new hire behind the counter can find it. ;\)


My, what a steep learning curve. Erik II#5155
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 154
T
trump Offline OP
Contributor
OP Offline
Contributor
T
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 154
This is kind of what I was thinking. I don't care about period correct. The car already isn't period correct. I just care about reliability.

I have a couple old alternators I stripped from some late chevy 6s that should probably do the job. I'm hoping they are internally regulated so I can just do the one wire thing.

I'm just going to have to get the resistors for the gauges/blower motor, and some new light bulbs it sounds like.

This is encouraging to hear. Investment should be low. I will keep everybody updated. Thanks.


'40 Studebaker project Chevy 292 powered.
'51 Chevy business coupe 216ci inliner
Inliner's #5360
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 384
W
Contributor
Offline
Contributor
W
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 384
Back in ancient times (that's when I was a kid), my first car was a '51 Olds with a 303 cubic inch V-8 in it and a 6-volt electrical system. Cranking that thing over on winter mornings was a real iffy process, and like Tim said, it had to be done just right, or she no workee. The solution that I found was a 6/12 battery. After putting that battry in the car, it cranked over like a champ. I don't know if they still make those any more, but J.C. Whitney might possibly still have something like that around somewhere. Anyway, what it was, was a 12-volt battery with a relay or shunt or someting mounted on the top of the battery, and what it did was to send 12 volts to the starter motor, then when the engine fired, it would drop back to 6 volts for normal operation of the electrical system. Never had any problem starting the car after that.

I don't know if anyone still makes 6/12 batteries, but it won't hurt to do a little research on it and see if any of the battery manufacturers still offer anything like that. It's also a LOT quicker, cheaper, and simpler than converting the entire electrical system to 12 volts.


Formerly known as 64NovaWagon.
#47135 01/21/09 06:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 368
Contributor
****
Offline
Contributor
****
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 368
There is another 'band-aid', back in the early 60s we put a 8 volt battery in Gary Cope's (Inliner Prez) '53 Olds, a little fiddling with the voltage regulator and it was just like starting that big 303 with 12 volts, well almost.

Tim


Tim Tenold
I.I.#498
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 596
B
Major Contributor
***
Offline
Major Contributor
***
B
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 596
Tim is right an eight volt battery will work without any modifications. the stock 6 volt generator should kept it at about 7.5 volts if you turn it up to max. I still use an eight volt battery on my six volt tractors. We also used to put an eight volt battery in cars when they were wore out and needed to spin faster to start. It made a major difference in flathead fords starting. Eight volt batteries are available from Tractor supply stores plus many other places.


Been there, Done that, Hope to live long enough to do it again.
Big Bill
I.I.# 4698
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 364
Contributor
Offline
Contributor
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 364
Back in the "ancient times" that Zeke described there was the poor man's 6/12 volt battery, which was created by taking a standard 12 volt battery and running in a large sheet metal screw into the connecting bar between the third and fourth cells. The full 12 volts would just go to the starter and the rest of the car would be powered by an 8 ga wire connected to the 6 volt tap in the battery. Seemed to work quite well. I used it for several years on a 1951 Chevy with a 261. It was not easy to start on a cold day with just 6 volts. A 12 volt generator was required.


Hoyt, Inliner #922
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,015
Likes: 47
1000 Post Club
****
Offline
1000 Post Club
****
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,015
Likes: 47
There is also a duel battery set up like some of the Diesel trucks use. You mount tow 6 volt batteries and it sends 12 volte to the starter only. They are charged from the 6 volt source.


"I wonder if God created man because he was disappointed in the monkey?" Mark Twain
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,411
N
1000 Post Club
*****
Offline
1000 Post Club
*****
N
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,411
FWIW the system you guys are describing with the 'switch or relay' on top of the batteries sounds alot like my dad's old Kenworth (except his was switching between 12 and 24 volts to start). The relay unit in question was called a 'parallel switch' by the local truck parts store. If you want to try that route that name might help (dunno, might not be the same nomenclature) if they have one set up for 6/12 as I don't know if a 12/24 would pull in on a 6/12 system.


My, what a steep learning curve. Erik II#5155
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,015
Likes: 47
1000 Post Club
****
Offline
1000 Post Club
****
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,015
Likes: 47
The last time I located a 6 to 12 switch it cost so much it was cheaper the convert to 12V, and I didn't have to find room for another battery. I remember the kind Zeke is talking about too. When batteries had the big lead connectors on top between the cells you could cut one and turn a 12v battery into two 6V batteries in one case. That was really a good solution,compact and easy. But batteries aren't made that way anymore. It used to make me laugh to see that my '38 Ford still had provisions for a crank and the lug wrench was also a crank. I never tried cranking the flathead with the 10 to 1 Offey heads but an 8V battery did OK using the methods above if the engine was not warm. I Parked on hills a lot! Not a good system for the Texas Panhandle! Although there is a hill between Canyon and Amarillo. \:D


"I wonder if God created man because he was disappointed in the monkey?" Mark Twain
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 154
T
trump Offline OP
Contributor
OP Offline
Contributor
T
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 154
I looked online for those 6/12 batteries. No luck.

I think I'm just going to go the 12v conversion route. I've got the alt, can easily build a bracket, already have a heater resistor, already have 12v battery, and found a place that sells the runtz for $3ea. Seems like the cheapest thing to do.

I could probably sell the 6V battery (it's new) and pay for the whole conversion.


'40 Studebaker project Chevy 292 powered.
'51 Chevy business coupe 216ci inliner
Inliner's #5360
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,015
Likes: 47
1000 Post Club
****
Offline
1000 Post Club
****
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,015
Likes: 47
Before you do anything check all your grounds, battery to block, block to body, body to frame and cable size. The cables have to be about twice the size of the 12V ones.


"I wonder if God created man because he was disappointed in the monkey?" Mark Twain
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 138
Contributor
*****
Offline
Contributor
*****
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 138
I used the 8v battery deal, worked great. Tech Tip - 12v conv here on the left, last para has an easy fix for bracket.


Moderated by  stock49, Twisted6, will6er 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
1 members (41 Coupe), 199 guests, and 45 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Skulptorchaz, Ryan Clark, chevy454, TCH54, beansprout01
6,778 Registered Users
Sponsored Advertisement
Sponsored Advertisement
This Space is Available
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5