Inliners International Forums General Discussion Blown and Injected 4200 turbo project...

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efi, will this be a street worthy engine or for racing only? so far it is quite a list of quality parts.
i did not see the turbo manifold at steedspeed. tom

" Design/mockup in progress for the turbo exhaust manifold"
Meaning it is in the works

Tom,

It will see 80% street and 20% race. I just hate breaking parts, and in the long run its cheaper to build it right the first time, especially around here where the labor cost is 50% of the build.

I'm working on the 1st cut of the exhaust manifold now and will be heading up to Steedspeed next week. The more of the design work that I can do the faster Leen can finish the design and turn it into a part.

Marc

Finished the design for the exhaust manifold today...
http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ll8tcmmainbodyjd3.jpg

The head flange, turbo flange and the BOV flange are seperate parts that will get welded on so they don't show on the the main body.

Here's a video of how the manifold will be made...

http://www.youtube.com/steedspeedturbo

and a link to Chris the magical metal fusion wizard.... http://www.performance-shop.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=42598.60

look near the bottom of the page for the manifolds..

nice

One lower intake runner design under consideration..

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9534/runner90uc2.jpg

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72# injectors - rec'd today... www.sprayitracing.com - good prices really fast shipping.

Crower rods - ready to ship
J&E pistons/rings - ready to ship Friday
Turbo intake flange in house
Darton sleeves - ready to ship tomorrow

So the bulk of the hard parts are ready to ship.

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How much are you planning on pulling out of this engine? Do you have the Megasquirt to run the stock engine with some boost along with a homebuilt EFI? What about the cam phasing? Will the blanks you mentioned use this or be installed at a permanent degree? Any idea what kind of boost the stock setup can withstand? I realize 10: 1 is a lot of compression but if you could bleed some compression with overlap via the cam phaser would it be possible to run 6-7lbs on a stock block & Pistons?

I'm interested in this engine, not for racing but as a hot street alternative...........jb

All good questions:
"Do you have the Megasquirt to run the stock engine with some boost along with a homebuilt EFI? "

I'm running just megasquirt, its boost friendly. Right now its running the stock NA engine thats in the truck.

"What about the cam phasing? Will the blanks you mentioned use this or be installed at a permanent degree?"

Right now the cam phaser is not connected - eventually I hope to control it - just need the software in megasquirt to control it ( I wish my programming skills were better) I'm waiting for the s/w to get done.


"Any idea what kind of boost the stock setup can withstand? I realize 10: 1 is a lot of compression but if you could bleed some compression with overlap via the cam phaser would it be possible to run 6-7lbs on a stock block & Pistons?"

Not sure but with EFI folks are running a lot more base compression. A local shop is supercharging Ls series engines without a piston change upto 10 PSI - not sure if I'd be that brave. 6-7 sound doable but not having done it yet I'm not going to say yes for sure. Your correct that some base compression could be dropped by moving the exhaust cam to a tighter overlap centerline...

One thing I've found out from folks on the trailvoy.com site is the stock GM PCM is not boost friendly. They seem stuck on wanting to keep the GM PCM.

"
I'm interested in this engine, not for racing but as a hot street alternative."

Same here just wanted to push the engine a bit - I've had grumpy 600HP SBC engines before that went like stink but were not practical - no driveability. Hopefully I can cruise this on low boost with pump gas and then turn the wick up when the need arises running either 105 unleaded or methonal and pump gas .. still messing with the fuel system on paper...

Thank you for your reply. I have several engines to choose from including a late model 5.3 LS engine. I bought several 4.6 ford throttle bodies for a project and never used them would two of them be too much on the 4.2 with a intake similar to yours? I'd love to run three but I'm afraid it would be too touchy even with the throttle linkage slowed down.....jb

JB,

It would depend on the id of the TB. If they are 3" then one is enough for NA motor. One thing to keep in mind is the TB is passing only air unlike a carb where the throttle bore are passing wet flow... well the fuel displaces a given volume of air.


Missed one part of your first question... I have a GT40-88 garrett - so as much as I can get out of that turbo...

I believe the stock 4.6 is a 65mm Throttle body.
Since the injectors are in the head, and these have a square flange and a TPS I'd like to use them. I think I have 8 of these things, and depending on the firing order using one t-body per pair would look pretty killer providing the engine was naturally aspirated. I also have some Ford lightning pickup two throat throttle bodies that have fairly small ID's

Do you plan on a log type manifold for your intercooler to head connection? I'd like to talk to you about your M-squirt and edis setup would you e-mail me at Boogiemanz1@YAHOO.COM jb

Darton sleeves - rec'd... they look really good.

Just got to get this kitchen renovation done ( need the brownie points...) before I can get back to the matter at hand...

Been a while... work has kept me away.

Block is getting machined. Cams are getting ground at Comp. I have all the parts to do the short block now. Some minor parts remain to be ordered. This week I'm getting the cores done for the intake manifold.

Still lots to do.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/5765/p6160345mv6.jpg

SLA lower runners picked up tonight...

#3&4 are duplicates

Next up casting a silicone rubber mold of the SLA parts to get a negative, then pour a wax positive >>>> foundry lost wax process hopefully by Aug I'll have alum runners.

Those look really nice!

MBHD

intake update

Started casting wax positives today... 1st batch - well they were melted down had sags and air bubbles, 2nd batch much better. Seems if the wax is too hot or too cold it does weird things..

#2 runner came out fine..

http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p7180374kg5.jpg

In addition to the intake manifold lower runners, the turbo manifold walked off the CNC this week so today I did a trial install.... no more vaporware parts they are real..

http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p7190375na4.jpg

That turbo manifold looks really nice also !
Price? Can they make more?

MBHD

How many would you like ? Now that the programing has been done its a matter of getting material and firing up the mill.

With high temperature coating .. about $1150 in qty. 1. As with any machined parts the cost goes down with qty. so an order of 10 would be about $1000 (or 10 tanks of gas...!) I'd have to confirm pricing with Steed speed but this is close.

One company that does BMW inline 6 uses another billet manifold that Leen makes and they are pushing 1000 HP out of 3500 cc.

Here is a shot of all 6 wax positives on the intake flange.


7190380go9.jpg][/URL]


next step is making plaster negatives, then melt the wax out and pour in hot metal...

Now I understand why the commercial shops wanted $4500 to take the rapid prototype models and deliver metal parts. I'm at 16 hours and counting just for 2 sets of the wax positives.

Update time....

Short block parts should be ready to pick up from the machine shop tomorrow. Thursday I should cast the first runner. Exhaust manifold gets tig this week, the rest of the exhaust system is 95% complete, waiting for the V band parts and the flex coupling hopefully they show up this week.

Progress being made but its slow.

Block and crank are home, doing final wash on the block tomorrow then start assembly. Exhaust manifold is going to the coating house for high temp coating - help keep the heat in the manifold.

The block assembly is going to take a while as I need to generate crank timing diagrams for the internal crank trigger wheel.

Tried an initial pour on the intake runner today, well not perfect but now know what changes to make in the mold.. got a huge gas bubble - not good.

Lots to do...

efi-diy,

I forgot what turbo you are going to use.
Also,how much HP are you looking to get?

MBHD

I'm going to start with a Garrett GT40 turbo. As for HP .. well once I get the initial teething problems out of the way, I'll turn up the boost until the 4l70E transmission starts to show signs of distress then back off. At that point I guess over the winter it will be time to build a 4l80E and a motor plate.

The engine internals (pistons, rods, sleeves) were spec'd for 800hp. More than that and I think the lower end might start distorting and showing up in the main bearings. Folks in the know say Self built a monster main cap girdle that ties into the pan rail for high HP app's ( Cunningham's motor). Too bad Glen is very quiet about these things.

Sounds like it will be a beast of an engine when you get done w/it.
Did you see Douglas's girdle I posted?

What vehicle is your 4.2 going into?
Is it going to be a street car?

MBHD

That's quite the girdle, if I start having bearing issues I can see one coming this way.

The engine initially is going into my 51 GMC and yes its a street truck.

Start of engine assembly...

bottom end ...



Top of the block showing the Darton sleeves installed...

Now you know Im gonna be asking about a video when this thing gets rolling.

Looking good.

Short block is 2/3rd's assembled...

Is the bottom end stock, main girdle,main caps?
What does the crank look like?
MBHD

Bottom end is stock except for stronger main cap locating sleeves which have enough clearance designed in to allow use of 7/16 ARP studs. The main caps and girdle are OEM with minor mod's.

The crank is a pretty stout part, the main journals are 2.75" dia. and are cross drilled from GM. My guess is that GM looked at the 194/292 crank and decided to stiffen the 4200 to minimize harmonics. A couple of drag racers are spinning this engine to > 9000 RPM! Enough said.

Once I get back from the salt I'll put up more pix.

A bit of a delay....

So depending on what arrives here first:

-turbo exhaust V band flanges/gaskets
or
-the turbo head

will dictate which engine will see boost first, we are quickly running out of season here and I really want to drive the truck under boost.

The '06 short block will go together this weekend (finally), the head is done except for a !@#$! mix up on valve guide seals - hopefully the parts are not weeks away.

The rest of the turbo set up is done except for a brace which I'll fabricate this weekend.

I think we need some pics posted ,,,not just words. :-)

MBHD

i'm waiting for the video's! tom