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#42471 07/14/08 04:52 PM
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Edy Offline OP
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Hi guys!!!

Long time since the last post! i ´ve been busy with my job among other things, i will try to keep up with forum from now on!!
well, i´m almost finishing buying parts for my car, i say almost because the rear end will be more challenging than the tranny was! a complete moser Ford 9" rear end is will be my solution, putting this stuff inside my country will be a hell of a job!! but for now i need your help in finding a good company to make a custom dry sump oilp pan. Do you guys have any experiences with any company that makes a good and affordable dry sump pan for Chevy´s 250?

Edy

Edy #42472 07/14/08 11:09 PM
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Hey Edi, If you haven't bought your third member for the Ford 9", get the 12 bolt drop in for the Ford. It changes the pinion angle to that of the 12 bolt Chevy and gives you about 4% better efficiency. The only problem is tall gears past 2.76, but I think in your case you wont be running tall gears.

How did your tank turn out, I saw Mike building it a while back?

$UM FUN #42482 07/15/08 02:14 PM
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Hi Tony!!!

Yeah! mike has built my tank some time ago! i´ve sent the pictures and as he had some time available he agreed to make one like the pictures, it´s in way to Brazil!!!

I´m still looking for a rear end, i read that the ford third member requires more HP to turn than the chevy 12 bolt, but everybody says that the Ford 9" will hold much more HP, i think that this trade would not be that bad.

I tried Canton Racing Products, to make a dry sump pan with those 3" kickouts, but they decline! :-( Do you have any company in mind?

by the way my nitro kit just arrived! 200HP of nitro in a direct port set up! i´m going to break the sound barrier or send my engine to the moon! lololololololololo


Edy

Edy #42494 07/15/08 08:36 PM
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Here's a link to the shop that made a custom oil pan Leo Santicci's 292. Doug Lee in Oklahoma built a custom oil pan for my 261 to accept a GMC oil pump - Doug Lee of ProPan.

These are not for dry sumps, But Doug Lee showed me some dry sump pans that he has made for circle track cars.

I see that you have allready tried Canton.

Last edited by Hoyt; 07/15/08 08:38 PM.

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Hoyt #42496 07/15/08 10:35 PM
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Hoyt #42501 07/16/08 12:19 AM
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Hi Hoyt!!

I already tried Canton, no lucky with them!! but i will try with Doug lee!!

Thanks for the advice!!!


Edy

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Hank

I had no ideia that Sissel' had dry sump oil pans available! sure i will try Sissel Automotive

Thanks

Edy

Edy #42504 07/16/08 02:34 AM
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Dry sump pans have come along way in the last 5 years. Their advancement is like how for piston rings have come in the last 5 years. The design of the pan is very important and if not done correctly will cost you HP. Done correctly you will gain HP. In general dry sump systems were used to lower the engine in the chassis. But if you can get away with it a deeper sump will help make HP. A 3” kick out on the passenger side will help in the scavenging and oil control. Segmenting the pan (on a 6 cylinder sementing into 3 compartments will gain HP) Depending on the pump you will pull some good vacuum, so you will need to put a oil rail for the pistons. The NASCAR boys have done a lot of testing on this and one of the best pan companies is http://www.bsrproducts.com They don’t list the pans in their catalog , but they make a lot of pans for the NASCAR teams and know all the new tricks. Call them and ask for Phil Stefaneli, he is one of the owners 704-795-0901.

To build a proper pan you will need an either a good blue print of the block or the block it- self for proper fitting. On my pan I eliminated the pan gasket and went with an “O” ring. I have also seen two-piece pans where the bottom is on a “O” ring so you can check the bearings without pulling the pan. Also remember the pump is also very important and all pumps aren’t built the same. Ask the pump manufacture for the efficiency rating and how long they can hold that, and most wont even tell you.

Edy, The 12bolt drop in for the 9” Ford is the best of both worlds. You get to run 12 bolt gears with their better pinion angle in the Ford 9’. A lot of Pro Mod drag cars run them and they are in the 1000HP plus category

$UM FUN #42521 07/17/08 09:37 AM
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HI Tony

Lower the engine would be a good consequence, the main reason i´am using a dry sump system, is because of the block girdle. There will be no room for a internal oil pump, and for that HP level i want, the girdle would be good to help to hold the botton of the engine, Douglas will be doing the same with his engine. I bought one Johnson´s 5 stage external pump, as you said the vaccum will be big, and the oil injectors are in plans, i remember you said that in those emails you sent me some time ago!
The block is in Brazil... i believe the blue print will have to be the way, there are no companys here with "know how" that would built a dry sump pan there way i want. By the way what fittings size do you think would be good for my pan?

If you could give me more details about this 12bolt drop in for the ford 9" would be very nice! i don´t understand much about rear ends and i think i would not explain myself to the dealer when asking! i was thinking about ordering a complete rear end like a Moser M9 or a Strange set (i read somewhere that Strange has a aluminum centersection designed to use 12-bolt gears and internal parts may be this what you talking about?)

Edy

Edy #42529 07/18/08 01:04 AM
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Edy,
do you have any pics of your block girdle?

MBHD


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Edy, On the pan take a look at the pictures I sent you. When we tested oil pans we found that with the segmented pan we gained HP. On a six cylinder segment into three compartments and don’t bring the segment the entire way to the main cap. Leave a small break to equalize the pressure and it will be fine. The Johnson pump will make some big vacuum, so don’t forget to run the metal coils in the suction lines or the lines will collapse and you wont have any oil pressure.

The pan lines will be AN 12 and the returns to the tank are AN 16. You will need a one way check valve off your valve cover, with the return going back to your dry sump tank or a catch can. The valve comes in both AN 12 and AN 16.

The best way to set up the pump is to put the engine on the dyno and after break in, put an analog feed on the backpressure line, and attach it to a scope or readout. Bring up to temperature and put a load and watch for the down spike. Then change the spring and do it a again, and keep going till you find the down spike. There is only three springs for that pump, high, medium and low. You will probably end up around 20-30 lbs. On my GMC at 7000RPM, I am at 25 lbs. Each engine is different, so do it till you find the right spot. One of my friends is a NASCAR engine builder and at 8500RPM at Daytona they are running about 23 lbs.

The Chevy drop in is the Strage part. The only thing is you cant run tall gears beyond 2.70’s as the pinion head is too big. But in your case I don’t think you need to worry. You guys will be running low gears anyway.

Last edited by $UM FUN; 07/18/08 02:02 AM.
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Hello Hank!!

I don´t! in fact i´m still solving the rear end issue! after that i need to send to block to same guy who did Dougla´s girdle! may be Douglas have some pics!

Edy


[quote=Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]Edy,
do you have any pics of your block girdle?

$UM FUN #42534 07/18/08 02:55 PM
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>Edy, On the pan take a look at the pictures I sent you. When >we tested oil pans we found that with the segmented pan we
>ained HP. On a six cylinder segment into three compartments >and don’t bring the segment the entire way to the main cap.
>Leave a small break to equalize the pressure and it will be fine.
very nice advice!!! already noted!!


>The Johnson pump will make some big vacuum, so don’t forget to >run the metal coils in the suction lines or the lines will >collapse and you wont have any oil pressure.
I´ve made a document with tips for every part! the metal coils sure will be used, i just need to figure out how long line i will need!

>The pan lines will be AN 12 and the returns to the tank are AN >16.
OK!!

>You will need a one way check valve off your valve cover, with >the return going back to your dry sump tank or a catch can. The >valve comes in both AN 12 and AN 16.
man, i did not got this one! I had a catch tank attached to the breather of the valve cover to pick that thick coffee with milk colored liquid that would be sprayed on engine bay on when making a long run. is there anything related to that?

>The best way to set up the pump is to put the engine on the >dyno and after break in, put an analog feed on the backpressure >line, and attach it to a scope or readout. Bring up to >temperature and put a load and watch for the down spike. Then >change the spring and do it a again, and keep going till you >find the down spike. There is only three springs for that >pump, high, medium and low. You will probably end up around 20->30 lbs. On my GMC at 7000RPM, I am at 25 lbs. Each engine is >different, so do it till you find the right spot. One of my >friends is a NASCAR engine builder and at 8500RPM at Daytona >they are running about 23 lbs.
I thought i would need to fit the different size gears to match >the desired pressure as the same way it´s done with >superchargers
very nice advice this one!!!!!

>The Chevy drop in is the Strage part. The only thing is you >cant run tall gears beyond 2.70’s as the pinion head is too >big. But in your case I don’t think you need to worry. You >guys will be running low gears anyway.

I did some simulations with my wheels, tranny, tires and rev limit. For what i´ve seem the best diff ratio is be 3.25:1 which would make me achive the goal of 0-100 km/h @8000 RPM in first gear and 330 km/h @ 7000 - 7500 RPM (i dont remeber right now the correct RPM). I will simuate with 2.70 gear, let´s see what i get!!!


Edy

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