It's been about a year since I've been active on this board.

For those that don't remember me, I bought a rebuilt 292 and swapped out the cam. I installed it in a 70 c-10, but never really got it running well. I bought another truck, and decided that I wanted to keep the 292 and put it in my nova.

I'm finally getting to the point where I have the time to pull the 292 out of the truck and put it in my nova. I moved about a year ago, got involved a couple of other projects and starting working 60 hours per week.

So, I guess my question now is, should I just pull the 292 or get it running well first? I got it running well enough last year just for the move(about 10 miles). I tinkered with it some, but it runs rough. I would like it to run better before I pull it, just so I feel better about the whole thing.

The trunk run and starts ok. It sputters when I turn off the key. When I start off down the road, it pulls ok for a very small bit, then gets bogged down. When it is running and I put my hand over the end of the breather, it almost immediately stalls out. What do you think is wrong with it?

Sounds like you may be carbonned/gummed up. If it has been sitting that long, $10 for a can of carb spray and a jug of Techron in the tank along with a good visual inspection might be all you need. Also check for adequate exhaust flow.

please excuse my ignorance, but where should I spray the carb cleaner? Just take off the breather and start spraying? How much?

Techron - this stuff?
http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/additives/concentrate_plus.shtml

Thanks for the help!

OK before you spray anything....engine must be cold, rags around the base of the carb, safety glasses on (or squint) just kiddin'. Normally when a carb has sat for a long time with fuel in it, the fuel turns into a varnish like material. This varnish forms on any surface that the fuel is in contact with. As to where you need to spray the carb cleaner, that depends on the model/type of carb. The obvious places are; down the throat, the bowl/float area and any orifice that you can get the spray tube into from the can of cleaner. Be careful, some orifices are deadends and the carb spray will come back at you. If you have the manual for the carb you can follow the path of the fuel as it enters the carb. As far as "how much" use as needed to displace any "gra-doo" technical term. Then wait a few minutes for the cleaner to evaporate before starting the engine. You may get a few puffs of white smoke out of the exhaust on start-up, this is normal. Additioinally you can spray a small amount into the carb when it is running and manually feeding in some acceleration. This will clean deposits downstream of the carb. Too much will stall the engine. As for the techron, yes that is the one to use in the tank.

thanks 6T4Duce, I appreciate the help and the pics that you sent me. Did you happen to get my reply to your email?

Thanks.

There's probably 'multi problems' with your engine/vehicle and you need to tow it to a professional repair service & have it analized there.

We can't do that for you here; sorry.

Good luck.

63,
Got your email. Sent a reply.

thanks 6t4Duce.

by 'breather' in the first post, I meant 'air cleaner.'

I tried cleaning the carb and used the techron, but it did not seem to help much. I've posted a few pics - they're huge, I've been told not to post big pics here- over on my personal website:
http://lyndonjscott.com/photos/galleries/carrepair/nova_292_install/

if anyone would like to take a look at the pics and the questions, then post their suggestions here, that would be great.

thanks for looking

-63ChevyII

The rod (#5 in the second set of pictures) appears to be the choke pull off rod and should be attached to the flat spring mounted to the manifold just below and to the right of the float bowl in the picture (you might want a new one as that one looks kinda thrashed).

The solenoid (#1 same picture) is to add idle speed when something draws more power (HP) do you have AC perhaps?

I would put a longer piece of hose there (#1 last batch of carb photos) as it is kinking the one there.


It's probably not your problem but I DESPIZE aluminum terminal caps. I had one that was less than a year old that made the engine run poorly on my Dodge (318 / 5.2 V whatchamacallit but same principle)it was idling rough and wouldn't accelerate like it should (or tow worth a darn). I replaced the cap and rotor with a Neihoff brand brass terminal cap and the rotor that went with it(Shucks) for $13. It cured the problem and has lasted for the last 4 years. I should probably change it again as I'm sure it's due, but it's still working.

Oh yeah, if the rotor is dragging on the cap, you are getting spark scatter as the rotor will 'snap' ahead whenever it releases from the drag on the cap. How much who knows, but everything can add up.

Gentlemen;

If/when the rotor hits the cap, the cap breaks.

Sorry; that's not it.

Good luck.

What do you think I should do about the cap/rotor? I'm not sure if they were the same brand or not. Should I buy a new matching set? Any recommended brands?

When I replaced the cap and rotor, I replaced them b/c this was already happening... chances are the cap and rotor aren't the problem?

Try wiping out the inside of the cap, using a clean rag with some alcohol/laquer thinner on it & see if things improve.

Good luck.

Hi Walt,

please excuse my ignorance, but how do I check this?

When I got my 292 the previous owner said it ran really good...sometimes. The first thing I checked was the distributor wear. The shaft at the rotor could be moved sideways about .040, slightly more than the point gap. It is a wonder it ran at all. Just see if the rotor shaft has any side movement by hand. This will cause changes in timing, etc. S

On Twisted6's suggestion, I pulled off the timing cover to take a look at the end of the cam to make sure it didn't walk on the gear. It looks like it is fine, but now I'm really confused:

I stuck a rag in the #1 sparkplug hole and turned the engine over. When the rag was spit out of the hole, the engine was on the compression stroke for #1, correct? This means that the #1 cylinder should be at (or near) the top of its movement and the following valves are ready to be adjusted:
#1 Intake & Exhaust
#2 I
#3 E
#4 I
#5 E
This is what the lifters under the the side cover closest to the front of the engine look like:


To me, this confirms that #1 is set to fire. When I look at the timing marks, though, this is what I see:


When I turn the crank one rotation (until the timing marks are aligned), I think the #6 is on its compression stroke. Which means that that the following valves are ready to be adjusted:
#2 E
#3 I
#4 E
#5 I
#6 IE
Looking at the picture below confirms that #6 is firing I believe:


When I looked at the timing marks though, they are lined up.

At first I was thinking that the cam gear was install 180 degrees out on the cam. How can this happen with a woodruff key?

Sorry if this is the long way around, but I think it will help explain better what you are seeing. The compression and exhaust strokes look very close to the same at the beginning. The following is actually instructions for a valve adjust, but should sow you the difference.

Split the firing order in half:

1 5 3
6 2 4

These vertical pairs are "companion" cylinders, both at the top at the same time, but 360 degrees out of phase with each other. When #6 cylinder has the exhaust valve closing, and the intake valve slightly open, #1 is ready for adjustment.

Hope this helps, I'm sure there will be others.

Larry

Thanks Larry,

That makes sense to me.

Someone on another board thought that the crank was installed 180 degrees out. Does anyone have any input on whether the crank is installed 180 degrees out? Can someone explain to me step by step what I need to do to fix this? Do I need to pull out the cam and rotate the crank 180 degrees then install the cam? I want the timing marks to be lined up and the lifters for the #1 intake and exhaust to be at the bottom, correct?

The crank can not be installed 180 out. The gear on the crank is keyed. The photo of the timing gear and crank shows the cam 180 out. When you move the two marks till they are next to each other, is the timing mark at TDC?


Larry

Hi Larry, thats what I thought, but I was corrected by someone.

When the marks line up, the timing mark is at TDC, but I believe its on the exhaust stroke, based on the way the lifters are.

The gears are installed corectly or the engine wouldn't stare & run etc.

They are probably Mfg okay too.

Adjust the valves like Larry said and see how it runs then.

Good luck.

Your four strokes are, intake, compression, power, and exhaust.

When the timing mark is at TDC you've finished compression and the fuel is ready to ignite for power.

Larry

I may not be explaining the situation well, or else I'm extremely confused. I'll try to re-explain how I got to this point.

I first thought that I had a problem when I took off the side covers as a way to re-assure myself that I was adjusting the valves correctly (Twisted6's suggestion). My understanding is that you adjust the valves when they are closed all of the way, meaning that the lifters are at their lowest point. The manual I have says to adjust the 'first group' of valves (#1 Intake & Exhaust,#2 I,#3 E,#4 I,#5 E) when #1 is set to fire.

If I'm not mistaken #1 should be set to fire when the marks on the cam gear and the crank are lined up. When they are lined up, the lifters that should(based on info above) be adjusted are not at their lowest point. The valves that are at their lowest point are the 'second group' (#2 E, #3 I, #4 E, #5 I, #6 IE). If I turn the crank 360 degrees, the 'first group' of valves look like they are set to be adjusted (lifters at their lowest points), but the marks on the cam gear and crank aren't lined up.

If I adjust the valves the way that Larry has suggested, I agree that they will be adjusted properly. When I put the distributor in though, if I put it in to fire on #1 when the marks are lined up, it will be firing when the valves for #1 aren't completely closed. Based on what the lifters are doing, I feel like I [i]should[i] be setting it to fire on #1 when the marks are across from each other (like in the pic above).

I sent you an email LGriffin.

Twisted6 told me that one time he had a machine shop install a cam gear on the cam 180 degrees out. I wonder if this happened to me.

Will you please 'listen up' here; the timing gears are on right. These are for valve timing only. T-6 probably meant 'backwards'.

The timing mark on your pully may be off, but that's another issue.

You need to find someone to assist you (in person) as NONE of us here can.

Good luck.

LGriffin,
Thanks for the phone call. I really appreciate it and you cleared some things up for. I'll let you know how it works out.

John M.,

I envy your knowledge and experience and that of the other Inliners. I realize it may be frustrating for some of you that I ask so many questions. I apologize for this. I am trying to learn as much as possible - someday I hope to have the knowledge that will allow me to confidently do a few of these things on my own without help. The only way that I will be able to do this is if I ask questions to help me understand how this engine works. If I just do what someone tells me and don't understand what I'm doing or why I'm doing it, it's not going to help me down the road.

On another forum, I was told to line up the timing marks, set the distributor to #1 and adjust the first group of valves. I pulled off the side covers for re-assurance. When I pulled them off, I did not see what I expected to see. I am trying to clarify why my understanding is flawed. Someone else on the same forum is telling me to pull the cam gear and rotate the crank 180 degrees before re-installing the cam.

I realize that it is difficult to help someone 'over the internet,' especially someone with my limited abilities and knowledge. But I honestly don't have much choice but to do it this way. I moved to California from NH - I don't know many people. Most of the people I know drive hondas and toyotas and bring their cars to a shop (which I can't afford to do). The 1 or 2 'car people' that I have met haven't worked on inlines and their typical response is that I should 'stop messing around with the boat anchor and put a 350 in it.'

Thanks for the help everyone.

Dear ??

Purchase a Motors Manual from e-bay & learn how valves-valve timing and engines (in general) work.

This manual will also have information on other vehicle functions and a good "first step" for you. A course at your local Jr. College would be next.

Some sites on the WWW are just extentions of Hobby Shops and don't have "real world" experience/professional training/knowlege etc.

For a novice; It's difficult to "sort through it" and know what to believe.

Hang in there & good luck.

once things slow down for me i'd like to take a class or two.

That's what I'm realizing. I haven't been at this for very long and I have received my share of bogus advice.

Talking to LGriffin on the phone helped out quite a bit I think - easier to talk things through than to type everything. Hopefully he straightened me out

Hey 63ChevyII.... I hear what you are sayin'. I don't know many people here, and when I do talk to someone about these sixes they usually shake their heads in disbelief....as in...."you mean it ain't a V8?".And like you, I also don't have big $$$ to put my truck in the shop every time it needs work. Keep hangin' in there.

Thanks border_line, I appreciate the encouragement.

Okay, since this thread is already posted for "292 running rough", I figure why start a new thread on the same subject?

I went down to have my truck registered today, got home and bolted on the license plate, and took the truck for a test drive. She's running rough, but made it around the neighborhood.I really need to get it running better in order to have the shop inspect it. It doesn't respond well above say, 1700 rpms...just kinda cuts out and loses power. I should note that this is first time out with the new 4bbl. Edelbrock...I did a search on carb tuning...I'm just afraid that once I get to turning mixture screws I'm gonna mess things up pretty bad.When I get time to look at it I will re-check the timing and go from there.

I bought a new harmonic balancer and a used distributor. From running it around the block a couple of times, I feel like the problems I was having earlier are taken care of, or they are at least reduced.

I am having some new problems though.

When I ordered the new balancer, I decided to buy a 2 grove balancer instead of the three groove balancer. We decided to go this route (after some discussion with members of this site) b/c I was going to have some radiator clearance issues with the 3 groove. This engine is going to be installed in a 63 Nova, with has considerably less engine bay space the the 70 c-10 that the engine is currently installed in.

After getting the balancer installed and in trying to install the fan belt and powersteering belt, I realized that 2 groove quite different than the 3 groove balancer, which has thrown off the geometry of the belts





I was able to 'shim' the fan pulley with a couple of large washers, but don't know what to do about the alternator. Shimming it with the washer is just meant to serve as a temporary solution until I can figure out how to fix it right. To me, it almost seems like I installed the balancer backwards, but is this even possible? Doesn't the back of the balancer have a 'snout' like thing on it that it is hidden by the timing cover when installed? Did I get the wrong balancer? Should I fab something to move the alternator forward?

The water pump also seems to be making noise when I was running it. Since the water pump on it wasn't replaced during th rebuild, I decided to buy a new one. I ordered on online from rock auto, painted it black and got ready to install it. When I was ready to pull the old one of, I saw that the pumps are different. After doing some searching online, I see that there are 2 different pumps for 292s. Can I use the one I bought, or do I need to eat the cost on this one (I figure I can't return it b/c I painted it) and order the other one? I ordered the one that was supposed to fit a 1970 c-10. The other one available fits 62-64 C-10s I believe.

Here are some more pics and a Monday morning bump...

63ChevyII, Hey I had the same issue with my install. The solution was to get a double groove pulley for the alternator. I went to local carquest and they had some in the back and even gave it to me free. A lot of times when customers get new alternators the pulleys are different and so they swap them out if need be. Never had an issue with the double pulley, it should definitly solve your belt allignment problem.

-Ted

Thanks for the input Ted. Should I pull the pulley off and bring it with me to the store? Was the pulley specific to a 292/L6?

Did you have to shim the fan pulley too?

Anyone have any thoughts regarding the waterpump?

I found this waterpump online and it looks similar to the one that is installed. It says that it is from a 75-77:


Here's another from a 68-74


and one from a 88-89:

ChevyII and border_line-

Now a word from our sponser-

There are around 40 members of Inliners in PA and around 350 in California. (about 1500 active in the world) This is a great source not only for car information but for friendships. I urge anyone who is not a member to join Inliners. You won't have people recommending that you install a 350, because they think just like you do. There is a membership form on the web page, and it is very cheap for the benefits.

Will6er
High Plains Chapter Head

-and now back to your program.

ChevyII, I use the 68-74 one, it came with the engine ('69 block). No, I didn't need to use any shims. My fan is really close to the radiator, so if I did, it would hit it. Yes, take your alternator to the store and they can match it up and maybe even install the new pulley for you. Its worth the try.

-Ted

I pulled the pulley off of the alternator last night.I have a couple of places to check and see if they have one in stock.

What is the part called that the thermostat sits in? I'm talking about the lower part (lower thermostat housing maybe?). In this pic of Ted65Mali's engine, you can see that there is a large hose going from this part to the water pump:


On my engine, this part is beat up and it uses a much smaller hose(see pics above). I was thinking of buying another one. If I get one that uses the same size hose as the water pump I bought does, I can keep the water pump. I can't return the water pump b/c I can't find the box it came in, which is part of the companies return policy.

It is the lower thermostat housing and you can change the
fitting( hose fitting) no need to buy a new housing if you don't have to.

Great. I'll see if I can find a place to buy the fittings from. What type of store should I look at?

I was able to find a dual groove pulley. I had to go to 3 stores, but I picked one up for $12. The alternator belt alignment looks good now. The pulley for the fan is a little off, but I'll be using a different pulley for the fan anyways, once it is installed in the nova.

Any part house Or high performance shop should have then they are the same as any SB.( used on water pump Or on the intake) for
the heater hoses.

Folks;
I am going to echo Wills remarks. JOIN INLINERS!!!, There are several Inline Members living in y'alls areas, and I GUARANTEE, when you get your membership roster and phone one of these Members you'll be close to solving your problems. If not a "done deal" when you ask for help, I'll be surprised. That your problems are hard to visualize, and solve from a distance is understandable. JOIN Inliners International, 28 of the best bucks you'll ever spend and you'll make lifetime friends!
SOB

I plan on joining soon. Finances are really tight with my upcoming honeymoon/wedding

Here's an update:

after I thought the problems were taken care of, I ended up selling the truck to a friend. I sold it on the condition that I would get the engine.

Before pulling it last weekend, we fired it up to run some radiator flush through the cooling system. After fooling with it for 30 minutes and not being able to get it started (it had been sitting for about 6 months). I noticed that the distributor was nut was loose, so I decided to put a timing light on it.

The timing mark wasn't where it is supposed, and when it was close to where it needed to be, it sounded worse than when it was way off. After messing with it, and 'ignoring' the timing mark on the balancer, we got it running.

I got the engine out of the truck and into my garage. I took a look a the balancer - the rubber between the between the two 'rings' on the front of it looks squished out in a couple of spots. I checked TDC - the mark looks to be 20 or 30 degrees off.

Is it possible that this balancer is junk? The engine probably has less than 20 miles since the balancer was installed!

I'll post some pics later.

it probably has a mismatch with the timing cover by model year. in different production years the timing tab or the mark would be in different locations. tom

The think is, it was lined up at one point, when I installed the balancer.

From what I can tell, it's off by 93 degrees!
Diameter of balancer - 21.25"
Mark is 5.5" off
21.25/360 degrees x 5.5 = 93 degrees.

the think is = the thing is (why can't I edit my post?)

ussually the mark is lined up with the crank key way. tom

Here are the pics. I had a friend come over who knows more about engines than I do. He's saying that the 'new' mark is where TDC is:





Rock auto has agreed to replace the balancer with a Dorman (same as above) or Airtex unit. Any thoughts on this?

They just emailed me to let me know it is an ATP unit, not Airtex. Which one should I take?

So is the concensus that the outer ring has slipped or the TDC mark incorrectly positioned on the OD. Im guessing it is a remanufactured one.

I think it has slipped, because I'm pretty sure it lined up correctly when I installed it, other wise I probably never would have gotten the engine running decently.

I haven't pulled the bolt off. When I have a chance, I'll see if the keyway is still lined up with the timing mark.

that is what i would do. check the mark.

The keyway and the original timing mark on the balancer are not lined up.

The keyway is close to where I marked the balancer.


which brand balancer should I get - Dorman or ATP?

There has been a considerable amount of good help in this thread and there have been a lot of assumptions. The first major assumption is the motor was built properly with the correct parts. From what has gone on, my first guess would be the balancer and timing cover are mismatched, but it needs to be verified.

The balancer is apparently coming off anyway, so once again remove the timing cover. If you can see piston #1 through the spark plug opening great; if not get a bolt in piston stop and confirm TDC. Check the timing gears to make sure they align.
Put the cover back on and slip the balancer on and check to see if the balancer and 0 on the cover line up. If they do, it is one issue that can be eliminated. If not mark the cover where it lines up to 0 and make a new pointer. You can buy a pretty chrome one at a parts house or even drill a hole and use a nail tack welded in as a pointer.

Once you know the mechanical timing is right, you can then recheck the valve clearances, take the distributor to an old time shop that has a distributor machine to make sure it is all good, set the timing, make sure you have good fuel and see what happens. It is difficult debugging over the web , but with the good ideas and differing thoughts going back to the basics may make sense.

Best of luck!!!

Here's one other thought. Once upon a time I had a '64 Nova that was my daily driver, and one day I was driving home after work and it just stopped running. I coasted to a stop on the side of the road and did all the normal tests you do (is it getting air, fuel, and spark?), and everything seemed to be working, but the engine wouldn't even try to fire. So I pulled the distributor cap to check the points. The points were fine, but with the crank at tdc on #1 cylinder, the distributor rotor was pointing at the #4 spark plug wire instead of the #1 wire. Not good. So I pulled the distributor, and lo and behold, the roll pin holding the distributor drive gear in place was mostly gone. There were a few scraps of it left, so friction was the main thing holding the gear in place, and it had slipped about 120 degrees, which caused the engine to stop running. You might want to take a look at the drive gear on your dizzy and make sure it's in good shape along with the roll pin holding it in place on the shaft.

Thanks for the help guys. Rock Auto is going to replace the balancer for the price of shipping, so I am going to take them up on their offer. After I get it back, I'll look into the things you've mentioned above.

I am pretty sure that the balancer and cover matched when I put new balancer on. Also look at the distance between the line on the let and the line on the right. IF the #1 piston is at TDC when the line on the left lines up with '0', think about where that puts the original timing mark - I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to see that mark unless you're underneath the car.

any suggestions? does it matter?

Typically, the outer rings on balancers don't slip without some reason, usually after years of oil saturation and deterioration and cracking of the rubber. The balancer you show in the photo looks to be in good shape as far as the rubber is concerned, that would make me think it is some sort of quality control issue or manufacturing defect that caused the ring to slip, so I would select another brand different from the one shown, just to make sure you didn't get another potentially bad one. Im not that familiar with the OEM style replacement ones enough to recommend a brand. You might try to google Dorman or ATP and see if there are any blogs or forums discussing them as far as problems, that might give you some guidance as to choosing one over the other.

The ones that I've seen that we know slipped (motor won't run with the marks aligned, but seems OK if you tune it "by ear" and check for pinging - including my 250), all look worse than that (more rubber, more out from only 1 side, both), but this obviously only catches them when they're toast. If you can rotate it by hand (strap wrench; I use a seat belt), or wiggle it front to back, it's gone.
I know nothing about any aftermarket except that NAPA probably doesn't carry anything too bad.
It's important that this be fixed, because the harmonics occur in narrow RPM ranges, and cruising in exactly that spot for an hour might throw the ring right off (into the belt, blah), and certainly not protect the engine.

I think I'll go with the ATP unit. I didn't really want the Dorman one again b/c of the reasons stated by CNC-Dude.

I've lost a couple on my 292. One flew off while I was driving down the freeway. One dropped to the ground when I started the motor. I have had ones on other cars slip and was unable to set the timing. That includes a Corvair that also has belt grooves in the dampener. Every one had dried, cracked rubber with small or even large pieces missing.
Pull the nut and large washer off. With the engine at what you believe to be TDC, the keyway in the pulley should be straight up. The keyway should line up with one of the three bolt holes in the hub of the dampener. You can use a mirror to look or use your camera on MACRO setting, which looks like you have been using.

You didn't loose the key when you put the dampener on did you?

I may have another dampener ring come loose, but I will never have one fall off again. It now has the AC pulley bolted to the front, using the three hub bolt holes. That will trap the ring and the worst that can happen is that it will chew up the gear cover.

Here a quick update:

I sent the old balancer back to RockAuto and a new one is in the mail (ATP untit).

When I pulled the timing cover off, this is what I saw. I had the engine turned to where I though TDC was:


not perfect, but pretty close I'd say.

>>>engine turned to where I though TDC was<<<

NO!!!

It will have both valves closed, but on the overlap between Ex closing and In opening.
You need TDC on the compression stroke and that ain't it.
Two years ago when this thread started, you could have said the cam was 180 deg out. You could pull the cam out a little and turn it 180 deg. BUT!! Why not just turn the crank 360 deg or one full turn. If the two marks line up, the only thing that can be 180 deg out is your thinking.

Please explain to me how you can tell that from the photo.

Lost me on that one also!

When the timing marks are aligned, as shown in the picture, the piston is at TDC,true, but in reference to camshaft/crank phasing, the engine is in overlap, where as mentioned, the valves are partially opened/closing. If you put the distributor in the engine with the timing marks aligned as shown,and put the rotor at #1 terminal, it will be 180 degrees out of time. For the engine to be in time, you will either need to rotate the engine one complete revolution back around to TDC,the dot on the crank gear will still be pointing up like shown, but the cam gear dot will be at the 12:00 position instead of the 6:00 position as shown, then install the distributor pointing at #1. It is kinda' misleading to think that when the gears are dot to dot, the engine is at the #1 firing position, but this is done mostly to assure the timing gears or chains are aligned more accurately. It would be real easy to get the gears misaligned if you tried to index the gears with the cam gear at the 12:00 position and the crank gear at the 12:00 position as well, instead of closer together as shown in the picture. From the picture, it looks as if the cam/crank are in time as they should be, as long as the piston is truly at TDC as the dot on the crank gear seems to indicate. Take your #1 spark plug out and rotate the engine gently with your finger over the spark plug hole, as the piston come back up toward TDC, you will feel the piston start to push air out against your finger. Now notice the alignment marks on your cam/crank gears, they should both be at the 12:00 position, now look at your rotor, if it isn't pointing at #1 on your distributor cap, thats your problem. Make it point at #1 and you will be good to go, provided you have determined the outer ring on your balancer is accurately showing your TDC reference, as you were questioning earlier....

CNC-Dude,

Thanks for the detailed explanation. If I am following what your saying, at firing TDC, it should look like this?

Note: the engine will not run rough with the timing set to fire on overlap, it cannot run at all. Every event is 1 full crank rotation out: the exhaust valve is open during the compression stroke (leading to ignition).

Yes sir, that would be the point at which both valves are completely closed, the #1 piston is at TDC, and #1 terminal on the distributor cap has the rotor shooting fire at it....

Thanks for the help guys.

Panic is right, I think at this point it should be verified that the balancer/timing cover TDC marks match up,and that the piston TDC corresponds with those as well. Might need to get a degree wheel and a piston stop to make sure.

I agree. I don't think that the mark on the balancer is going to line up with the timing mark.

I'm not sure where I saw it, but I remember a thread where someone made a piston stop from an old spark plug.

I see two sizes of piston stops online - 14mm and 18mm. Does anyone know which one I need?

CNC-Dude is correct.
Your 6:00 and 12:00 has made me a little dizzy from holding my head sideways. Ha
Without already knowing that when the gear marks are together, this engine is at TDC/exhaust stroke, there is another way to tell.
If you use the bottom of the block as the horizontal reference, the crank key is at 12:00 oclock when the #1 crank journal is up and the piston at the top of the bore. Outside the view in the picture, the cam gear, key slot should be at about 1:00 oclock, again referencing the block. If you have an old cam and hold it with the key at 1:00, you will see that the #1 In and #1 Ex cam lobes are on either side of the virtical. It's easy to see that rotating the cam either way would move the lifters up.

There was an error earlier in this thread. The crank/dampener key slot DOES NOT line up with the dampener timing mark. The crank key slot is straight up no matter where the timing tab is. The same slot also indexes the crank gear.

Using a positive stop to find an accurate TDC is good, but you need the timing cover and balancer in place. I suggest getting the dist installed properly from where you are now. I also suggest readjusting the valves, if you have doubts about TDC location at the time you did it before.

>>I see two sizes of piston stops online - 14mm and 18mm. Does anyone know which one I need?<<

You tell us. My original head had the old larger, plugs with a gasket. The head on there now uses small tapered seat plugs.

IIRC the head uses the ones with the gaskets.

I will adjust the valves. Hopefully they were adjusted properly the first time and nothing got messed up.

Another shining example of how useful this forum is, at least to me. I never knew, or didn't remember that with the dots lined up the cycle was in overlap. In my several engine rebuilds over a lot of years I always just set the gears properly and then never thought about them again, just put the #1 piston on the compression stroke and then used the timing mark to establish tdc. Good thing I never had an erroneous timing mark or I would have been a might confussed! Thanks All.