So, I stopped into a local body/restoration shop today. Just to shoot the breeze. As the owner and I are chatting, it comes up that I am putting the turbo on my Nova. He then offers to engine dyno it. FOR FREE! How do you pass up on that! So I guess I need to get on my horse and build the 250 with the goal of 20lbs!
Where do I begin!

Heck Yeah One never passes up a free anything.

Heck yeah. That is almost like giving you a minimum of 500 dollars.

Can't beat that!

One of my friend's does some kind of auto-cross/GP racing and invited me to their chassis dyno day (6 hours from here) with promise I could stick my Firebird on the chassis dyno a few times during the day while they were making changes to their engine. I was ready to load up with two different cams, in cam housings, and head out there to make a three cam, plus cam timing adjustments, dyno day of it but my work schedule didn't cooperate :'( They fought gremlins the whole day, so I've been waiting patiently for a "re-schedule" and crossing my fingers it lines up on my days off.

I guess my debate now, do I throw the turbo on my current engine and patiently build the 250 turbo engine or do I go all in on the 250 and leave the turbo off my car until the new engine is built.

Get a spare engine and see how much boost a stock 250 will take before blowing apart.

Think of the fun you could have!

The first thing to go on a stock engine will be pistons. How long is the offer good for. It would be a shame to use the free dyno offer on engine you had not built for the turbo. The build depends on what you will use the car for, really use the car for. A good street build would not have to be a really expensive one. A full blown race motor is another deal.

Yeah, you would really hate to use up this favor on a less than worthy build. A well planned and better funded built will take longer for sure. Just make sure the offer will still stand if it takes a year or so to build the engine you truly want.

Snowman has seen 20+ psi or so when he first got his stock long block turbocharged. First engine.
He then settled on 15 psi, but had no idea it was detonating.
Straight pipe exhaust, no muffler, no timing retard, no intercooler etc.
Second engine stock long block, lasted for a little bit, had an intercooler, still no timing retard devise, loud muffler less exhaust.
He has more details about his adventures on turbocharging.

I would say, 15 - 20 psi, (guestimation) control detonation, run methanol injection & the best pump gas you can put in it.

I'd say, throw on the turbo, just run low boost & avoid detonation.

MBHD

I'm on the fence about if I'll leave the stock pistons in the engine or not. I likely have a set of L2289+.030" pistons coming my way for next to nothing, but if I use them, it'll be a complete engine tear down again and likely get some valve relief's cut into them for insurance. Or, I can try for up to 15 psi of boost, with intercooler and plenty of data logging.

Fortunately for inline engines, when changing pistons, if all the pistons weight the same it is essentially self balanced.

Well sirs, I intend on a pretty serious street car. I'd love track time also.
So, I'm thinking forged pistons, proper cam, I have a 292 exhaust manifold, offy intake.
There will be a j & s unit.
Meth injection, also.

Question: if I build a box for the carb, what kind of boost can the carb take? I know the fuel pressure needs to be 4-7 psi above maximum boost. The floats need to be filled. Choke horn removed. Anything else?

I have no concerns with doing a draw through at 20 psi boost. It's just not optimal.

A properly set-up carb can take all kinds of boost.

A standard brass float carb, can take 5-7 psi of boost pressure?

I would not fill the floats, unless you cant find plastic floats.

My DCOE Webbers took about 5-8 PSI before the floats collapsed.

I then installed plastic floats & ran 9-10 PSI of boost pressure.

IIRC DCOE Webbers were good to about 12-15 PSI of boost range?

I like a stub stack instead of cutting off the horn, if you are talking about a Holley carb?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/knn-85-0210?seid=srese1&gclid=CJS5hqW0uMQCFYc7aQodDI0AHQ

If you can, fuel injection is a better way to go over a carb.

MBHD

A boxed in carb should be able to take any pressure you can throw at it. Don't they make the neoprenen (solid rubber ones) for those carbs? Just reference the fuel pressure according to the pressure in the box.

Free dyno time?
Outstanding! I know how much dyno time is costing me so even a couple of baseline pulls for free is a great deal.

I'm jealous

Paul

I seem to bet terrible at finding parts... does anyone know off hand where to get solid floats? I just looked at summit racing and didn't come up with them.
I have a Holley 500 2 barrel.

Are the nitrophyl floats the ones I use?
Sorry, I'm brand new when it comes to power adders!

Yes nitrophyl, Jegs has them. Is your carb a center hung float or side.
Don't use a box way too much trouble, just blow through, change floats, reference fuel pump and power valve to intake manifold your done.

What do you mean, power valve to the intake?
I'm not sure about the floats... I have taken the top off the carb to check.

So, if blow through is that simple... then I have a new dilemma! I have $1300 to spend on this turbo system right now. I have the turbo, card, intake and exhaust. Nothing else.
Do I intercooler or meth inject? OR do I buy the j& s?
I can only afford one at this time, as I still need to buy the wastegate, BOV, do the exhaust, etc.

Do not intercool or any other tricks , just get a wastegate you need it.

To make it real simple Just block off the power valve with a power valve plug and increase the jets to make it the same area (jet area and power valve restrictor area) If you don't know how to do this just post the jet size and the size of the two small holes under the power valve and I will post the proper jet size to use.

Then all you have to spend $ on is to fab the exhaust and a hat for the carb.

You still need to reference the fuel pump on any turbo setup so the pump sees the boost psi to keep the fuel pressure correct, this is only running a line from the intake manifold to the atmosphere side of the fuel pump diaphragm ( vent )

If you keep the boost low run good gas & conservative timing.

You should not need & J&S or intercooler right away.

Problem is, once you start making boost it gets addicting & you'll want to run more & more boost, & you will not have the good & safer supporting mods to your turbo set-up.

You'll just need to have self control, it's hard, though, ask Snowman.

Curious, what turbo do you have, what are the specs?
MBHD

What is the angle of the valves?

Our 194-292 engines, the valves are at a shallow angle less than 24*

When we use SBC pistons, the valve reliefs are in the wrong spot, & we really do not need any reliefs & can run flat tops (w/no valve reliefs) up to a certain lift & duration camshaft.
There is a mile of clearance, wondering if the Poncho 6 has a lot of room also?

MBHD

Could I remove the mechanical weights from the distributor and drill a hole in them, thus reducing the amount of advance that they provide? Or would stinger springs be the better way?

If I'm going blow through, I'm going to run an intercooler as a minimum.
My thoughts on the draw through is that the charge would reduce the temperature of the intake. Is that logic sound?

I would just weld/braze the advance slot so there is less travel, in a pinch I have used a piece of rubber hose & put it in the one side of the slot.

Stiffer springs, maybe, if you are detonating & need to limit the advance, but, I would not go that way.

Wise choice on the intercooler, they are very affordable including the piping.

On a draw through, the gas does some sort of cooling, but not like an intercooler. It's still going to make the intake manifold hot, pressurized air is pretty hot.

The higher the boost, the hotter the manifold.

MBHD

If the blow through is as easy as turbo-6 is sayin, I'm going that route. I will definitely run an intercooler!
I need to re-read about cooler design and which is best.

Admittedly, I'm an idiot and I will make mistakes with my build! I am only going to push 7 psi on the current engine.
Once the new engine is built (to handle the turbo), then I will go up to 20 psi.
That said, anything I can do to make my engine survive while saving/building the new engine will be done to the best of my budget/ability!

I'm ready to move on this and make it happen! I finally have my tig welder! Stoked!

I can't give specs on my turbo because I don't know them
60 a/r is on the housing.
I don't k own what to measure or check to know anything else on it.

Take off the turbine housing and the front cover of the compressor you will see both wheels measure the size of the wheels.

On the compressor the small dia. is the inducer the large is the exducer. ( air going in and air coming out)

On the turbine the larger is the inducer and the smaller is the exducer. ( exhaust going in and exhaust going out)

This will give you a close idea of the HP that it will support.
.60 A/R will spool very quick.

This turbo came from a mk3 supra with the 3L inline 6.
Was running 20lbs.
It had a few hours of dyno time and one street race. He got caught and fined $10,000. Tried fighting it and lost.
He was liquidating and I scored.

I will see about song some measuring!

The nitrophyl float should be available for pickup today!

Got the float.
Ordered the power valve block off.... the speed shop ordered the wrong thing. It came I as the check valve with drill bit.
Picked up my 38mm wastegate today. It came with 7, 11 & 15 psi springs. It will remain at 7 on this engine!!!!

Picked up my bov last night!
Fuel pump is in at NAPA. Need to boost reference it.
Power valve plug will be in tomorrow.
Need to find some mandrel bends locally and I'm off to the races.

Found some tube last night at a local exhaust shop!
Ordered a 292 exhaust manifold.... should see it end of next week!
That pushes my deadline pretty tight!
If I get as much done as I can in prep for the manifold, should do ok for time.

Need to post some pics if you can.

MBHD

I thought you said you have a 292 exhaust manifold?
Post #84863

Sadly, what I thought was a 292 exhaust manifold only has a 2" outlet. Though it does look right.
I haven't had much luck posting pictures, but I will see what I can do!

I cannot attach my pictures as they are too large.

Trying to add my pics...

Ohhhh this is just too good!

Great!, there are a little small though.

MBHD

I couldn't add them any larger.

Perhaps I'm too tired... I cannot seem to find the power valve on my Holley 500 2 barrel. I just had the bowl off and replaced the float.

Can someone help me out?

They are usually on the metering plate.
At the 5 minute mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtsfgxnyN6o


MBHD

Carb is done and ready to go!

Had to take my intake to the machine shop for a repair... one of the ears broke off. That ones the bolt the two manifolds together.

I believe I have everything I need to get this up and running!

Now if I can just find a good block of time! 😕

I'm a little frustrated right now.

I had to have my intake welded up... the mounting to sandwich the two manifolds together. It had been cut off to fit headers.

Anyway, so I was drilling a pilot hole and got 2/3 of the way through. Doesn't the drill bit break. I thought I got the piece out, but as it turns out it had broken into 3 pieces and I only got the one.

Needless to say, as soon as my drill bit hit that piece, the hole went off center and cut right into the soft aluminum. Being the idiot I am, I think I can correct it by using a large bit to realign the hole. No bueno. But don't stop there. Keep going out of frustration and finish the hole! Now the hole is off by about 3/16" and the piece of bit is still in there blocking me from elongating the hole!
Now i have to try and cut the piece out so i can elongate the hole.

If you can mount it on mill Use a end mill bit to get it out.

Well. I got the piece of drill bit out.
I also got the hole elongated.
The manifolds don't fit together quite right....if I get them to fit tight to each other, the mounting to the head of off. If I get the head mounting right, the don't sit tight to each other.
I am going to open the third hole slightly to see if that makes the difference. I sure hope so because this is all that is holding me up!

On a car such as mine, with very limited space for an intercooler.... would it make sense to use an air/liquid intercooler and have it at the side of the engine bay?

An air to air system is much easier to install & maintain.

Are you sure you want an air to water intercooler?

An intercooler can be placed other places other than in front of the engines radiator.

What car do you have, early Nova?

MBHD

Yes, Hank, I have a 65 Chevy II.
If I remove the hood latch bracket, I can fit a 27"x7"x2" but then i would have to pin the hood.
A friend suggested using two smaller coolers and join them with a 2.5" tube. Put one on either side of the hood latch. I haven't been able to find any small enough.

Maybe something like this could work.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-300ZX-VG30D...fa1&vxp=mtr

I would think there has to be room for a intercooler.
Probably need to cut the radiator core support for air to go through.

MBHD

Those would be nice, but I can't afford 'em!

I think I found a smaller one that will fit with minimal modification .

I have to do some more measuring.

I started mocking up brackets. Hope I can make them out of steel soon!

What kind of maintenance does the air to liquid intercooler require? Regular flushing?
I'm just having a hard time figuring where to put an air to air.
The air to liquid is an easy placement!

Remember, you need a pump to move the coolant. A continuous duty pump.

You also need to install a radiator to cool the liquid.
Hoses, clamps etc.
Pumps stop working, = more maintenance, moving parts, liquid, can leak, things that will require maintenance.

A reservoir is a good idea for extra water.

In a 1/4 mile, a air to water intercooler gets heat soaked & towards the end of the 1/4 mile the temps will rise.

With an air to air, temps will also be higher during the beginning, but as you go on your 1/4 mile run, the air temps will actually drop to a cooler temp.

Now, unless you have an air to water intercooler with an ice chest full of ice cold water, then with that scenario, it will be more efficient & actually be below ambient temperature, depending on boost level etc.

What size is the air to water intercooler? Where would you place that?
Got a pic or link for the air to water intercooler?

My air to water intercooler has 2, 7" Spal fans behind the cooling radiator for the intercoolers liquid.
If I did not have the fans, the air to water intercooler would really heat soak while being stuck in traffic or long lines @ a race track before I get to make a pass.

All the extra parts not to mention the water, the weight starts to add up for an air to water system.

MBHD

That is a whole lot more than I was thinking.
I thoughtIit was plumbed in with the radiator to keep the temp at steady.

Scratch that thought!

It's just going to take significant mods to put and air cooler in. Certainly not as simple as put it in place and drill some holes.

It starts adding up that meth injection is the way to go. I k ow there are consumables and moving parts. I'm just a little stuck. What I can afford makes a lot of work.

No, you do not use the engines coolant system, well, you could, but your intake temps will always be hot.

IIRC, the radiator core support has room to cut a hole in it for a small intercooler, no?

Methanol injection will allow you run more boost , run more timing, than just using an intercooler alone will allow you to run.
That being said, methanol injection is great & all, but, if that system fails, plugged nozzle, run out if methanol, loose wire, etc, your engine can go away very quickly.
There are fail safe add on components you can use to save your engine from blowing up.
Example: http://www.snowperformance.net/Snow-Performance-Safe-Injection-Unit-p/30020.htm

Adding a simple air to air intercooler, will always be there to lower your intake temps. No working devices, no moving parts.
I would add an intercooler just to have peace of mind knowing you will always something there to help reduce the chances of detonation.
There has to be a way to install one on your Nova, just need to be creative I guess?

MBHD

I do agree with you on the intercooler!
Nothing to really go wrong with a simple air cooler!

What is holding me back is having to move the battery to the trunk, move the voltage regulator, remove the hood latch assembly and pin the hood.

My car only has 40000 miles on it and is in pretty good shape. I wanted to limit the amount of modification done in case the car is to be returned to original.

I will have to sort something out!

So much for a May 1st deadline! That ship has sailed. Now I'm going to just poke away until I'm good and ready. 😔

As far as the voltage regulator goes, you can switch to an internal regulated alternator, gets rid of the external regulator & will perform better.

I did this swap on my Camaro, but forgot what wire to switch, not much to it.
Anyone here know off hand?

http://www.wallaceracing.com/alt-conversion.html

Projects always take longer than you expect them to.
Unless you live at home with parents, no kids & have no bills to pay.

MBHD

When you do not have room to fit the intercooler up front, you relocate down below & make a scoop like this unit from Kenne Bell
http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=102597


MBHD

Got my bracket welded up last night. Already need to modify it... forgot about the alternator. Whoops.
Oh well. Progress is progress!

Bracket is done.
Turbo is mounted.
J - pipe is almost finished.
I need to get a different welding helmet and my auto darkening doesn't work without the pulsing of the light. I'm not using the pedal on the tig. Just controlling my puddle.
Should have a new helmet tonight and can finish the j - pipe. Hopefully I can get the tube I need today and can also mount the wastegate.

Question: is a wastegate necessary when using a BOV? Follow my logic... the wastegate controls how fast the turbine spins (controlling boost). The BOV controls over boost when the throttle blades are shut quickly. If the wastegate and BOV are both set at 7psi, won't they both open at more or less the same time? Seems redundant. Couldn't you just use the BOV to control pressure a?nd keep the turbo creating boost?

I would recommend both.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wastegate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowoff_valve

You need to control the RPM of the turbocharger, otherwise you can have catastrophic failure. Hence, you need a wastegate.

Your logic, is not logical.

My Syclone did not have a BOV from the factory & would get compressor surge when closing the throttle valve, sounds kinda odd when it does this. Not really good for the turbo.
The excess pressurized air is actually going backwards through the turbocharger when the throttle blade is closed.

Puts a load on the turbo also.

I installed a larger compressor wheel & then I installed a BOV to be on the safe side, plus will have less tendency of blowing off couplers, hoses, clamps etc, when using a BOV.



MBHD

BTW, we needs pics of your progress.

I have both an WILL use them. I just wondered if it would work.
After talking about it out loud, I realize that a bov would Prolly cycle almost the entire time in boost if there were no wastegate to control turbine speed.

As for pictures. .. I have the worst time posting them here 😕
they are too large.

STOKED!!!
Got the j - pipe finished up tonight, including the wastegate flange!!!
Need to make oil lines, and the carb hat with BOV flange, modify fuel pump and distributor and I can install!!!

Great!!!

Still need pics, even if they are too small.


MBHD

Can anyone help me post pictures.... I'm having trouble getting them small enough to be uploaded.

I use photobucket to post pics, what site are you using?

MBHD

I don't use a site... I just try to upload from my phone.
Last time I emailed the pictures to my work phone at 30% size and then emailed them back to my personal phone at 30% of that size. Probably why they are so small.

You might want to start using a website so you will be able to post pics easily.

Just a thought.

MBHD

To post them on any forum you are required to use a photo hosting website such as photobucket or imageshack. Forum software is not set up to use any other method to display pictures, so you will have to create an account with one of those sites to do this.

I have no patience for photo bucket... I have an account with the but I can't share the link

Couple of questions...
I'm making some good progress but need some guidance.

I am using 94 octane gas. All the time. And it willl be quite rich.
Will i need to back the timing off?
I have not figured out an intercooler just yet. I'm still reading about liquid to air. Everything I'm looking at is going to need a fair amount of modification.

I forgot to mention....
this confirmation will not exceed 7 psi.

Also, I will be using an oil cooler. Should p
I plumb it ~engine to cooler to turbo to engine?

Confirmation. Bwahahaha!
ConFIGuration!

<iframe width="480" heigyht="360" src="http://s943.photobucket.com/user/dodgycanuck/embed/slideshow/Mobile%20Uploads"></iframe>

let's try this one...

Huzzah, huzzah!
Now I will take some more pictures to post!!!

Hooray, a pic!

This one is nice!

http://s943.photobucket.com/user/dodgycanuck/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150604_230749.jpg.html

At a 90 degree angle, your wastegate is not at the best angle for flow, it will work, just not as good as it could.

Here is my downpipe.

If you look @ the angle the exhaust enters the wastegate & how the bypassed exhaust re-enters the downpipe @ a shallow angle.

MBHD

I understand about the angle it enters the wastegate... I guess the thing I have been struggling with on this build is that it is on a mock up engine out gothe car . I have had a bit of a hard time with fitment.
Oh well, version 1.0!
I've never touched turbo before so this is a steep learning curve.
I'm about ready to install in the car, but have to keep in mind that it will be out of service until it is done! Potentially a large time commitment I cannot make just yet.

OK,
do you understand the angle to re-enter your downpipe?, that is important also.

It is difficult planning & laying out the plumbing/piping etc in order to install a turbo.
Needing to pull out an engine just to mock things up takes time.
I understand all too well.

The reason I have wanting for you to post pics is so we can help out with your install, critique it.
Not to be little you in any way.

Some take offence when being critiqued, that is not my intensions.

I do not have all the answers, but as a group, I am sure we can all put in our 2 cents.

Keep it going!

MBHD

Can't say I've ever been offended.
The whole reason I post here is for the wealth return. wledge available!

As for the angle of re-entry... that is to not slow the exhaust flow in any way (which could case lag), correct?!?

I had planned on having the exhaust system installed before I figure the wastegate return.
Would it be the end of the world to vent to atmosphere? Noisy, yes. But drawbacks?

Any specific pictures required?

No specific pics, but if you do not know something, ask first before you cut holes/weld, could save you some time & material?

Just post pics as you go.

MBHD

have a bit of a problem here... anyone see what it is?
Anyone have a solution?
Wonder if I can fill the unused space with something like jb weld?

Maybe you just need the right adaptor. Try this. It says for weber carbs but it also has a bolt pattern for Holley 2 bbl.

http://www.shop.cliffordperformance.net/2-Barrel-Adaptor-08-1013A.htm

here is the mounting bracket for the turbo.

center divider cleaned out!

For your "J" up-pipe to fed the turbo, I would use a flex coupler.
Example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5-x4-Stainless...843&vxp=mtr

MBHD

I had thought about using flex like that, Hank.
Can't remember where I read it, but recall that it was not great to use them in the j pipe.
I think it's a good idea to allow for misalignment in my dodgy fabrication &#128514;

tlowe~ thanks for the link on the carb adapter... it is on its way!

Now I need the boost gauge, a/f meter and to install the whole kitten cabootle!

That read would be interesting to view.
Reason for the flex joint is not because of misalignment of the pipes, it is used so your "J" pipe won't crack.
Also, flex couplings reduce premature cracking of manifolds and downpipes and help extend the life of other components.


It looks like your are mounting the turbo bracket solid to the block.
Your exhaust manifold heats up, expands, cools ,then expands, etc.

So @ the point where your pipe attaches to the exhaust manifold, to your solid mount for the turbo, there will be expansion & contraction of the "J" pipe, could cause cracking of the pipe, just trying to help you out.

Good luck with it.
As far as flex joints are concerned, there are good ones for turbo apps & bad ones.

You do not want a flex joint that has a metal mesh on the inside, (like the outside is), those have a tendency to get all distorted & collapse on the inside & will cause a restriction.

Here is an example of what not to use:

https://www.google.com/search?q=flex+coupler&biw=1600&bih=796&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CD4QsARqFQoTCMeYjbyo3sYCFUEwiAodK70Mgg#imgrc=ljVcfSj0KpDJLM%3A

https://www.extremepsi.com/store/product.php?productid=27808

MBHD

Well, sir, I bought a flex from NAPA today. Not the type you show not to use!
I will have to reinstall the system so that I can cut the pipe and install the flex. No biggie.
Guess I'm not too far from the install in the car! &#128518;

Glad to hear my suggestions are not falling on deaf ears.

You are doing a great job, & seem to be meticulous about your build & talented on your building skills, good to see that.

Keep it up.

MBHD

ew flex pipe

nstalled

Nice!!!

MBHD

I'm getting a narrow band air fuel meter for almost nothing and an O2 sensor for $30.
Only thing I'm not sure of is wiring.

This will get me by till I get enough for a wide band.

A narrow band O2 is not even worth installing IMO.

They react too slow, so you really will not know your true A/F ratio at any given point in the RPM range. You would be guessing at best what the A/F ratio would be at a certain RPM.

You can get them to work somewhat OK, but I would never try & tune an engine especially a turbocharged engine.

MBHD

I was going to use it less for tuning and more for knowing I'm not dangerously lean under boost.

I was going to be getting a digital boost/vacuum gauge and the a/f meter... but just realized the gauges have no sensors with them.
Even at $30 to pick them up, doesn't seem worth it.

I think a narrow band will only read correct at 13.7 and will not show correct on either side it's only for OEM computers to keep the mixture and the 13.7 a/f ratio nothing more.

I think last time I purchased wide band sensors they were like 75.00 each, may be wrong. I know they are very expensive.

Narrowbands will read outside of 14.7, but they are very limited, and should not be used for boost if at all possible. However, if I remember correctly, Buick GN's used a narrowband with boost from the factory, so it is possible, just not desirable.

Here is a chart relating narrowband readings vs ratio. Outside of 14-15 it is unreliable, and with a boosted motor the rich world is where you will spend a lot of time. Fuel cools the chamber very well!

https://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2004/10/Innovate/images/graphNarrowBand.gif

Forgot!

I cannot seem to find a wide band kit for less than $230 around here.

I've never had luck with ebay, so I don't bother with them anymore.

My oil return kit came in today. I must say that I am disappointed with Vibrant performance... not one kit I have bought has cone with gaskets!

I also got in some 3" mandrel bend elbows for my downpipe.
At the advice of the local performance exhaust shop (with turbo experience) I will be using 3" from the turbo to under the firewall. Then I will reduce to 2.5" and add a flange. The other side of the flange will be a flex and back with 2.5"
Most likely use a cherry bomb straight through. With no tail pipe for now as I cannot afford it.

Neither can I afford the a/f meter But I don't think it will be more than a month or so before I CAN get the meter!

I am now into the final reassembly of mockup.

One thing I asked and got no answer... do I still need to modify the timing with 7 psi and 94 octane?

In my post above I wanted to type 14.7 stoichiometric not 13.7, narrow band worked on GN because the computer would change the mixture to keep it at 14.7, narrow band will not work for tuning A/F it just flat lines above or below that.

http://www.maperformance.com/aem-wideband-uego-afr-gauge-install-review-30-4110.html

Here you go, you owe me a beer.

Carb adapter came in yesterday. Nice piece! I do have to open the mounting holes to the manifold

latest version of the engine. I can almost taste it!!!

Makes me want to get my build going! I need to stop spreading my money out over 5 builds...

I would run 3" all the way if you can.

Using flex pipe hurts exhaust flow, something you do not want in a turbo app.

MBHD

Well, the install has begun!

NICE!

MBHD

...I think you might want to move the washer fluid reservoir...

I like your U-pipe into the turbo better than the SPA set up. I worry about the SPA clearance with my power steering. I might be able to use your idea except move it slightly to clear my PS pump.

edit: I see you have a PS bracket. Let us know if you have problems fitting around that snail! Are you going to put a heat bag on it? With the PS pump and lines right there it might be a good idea.

Glad to see you are jumping in fully. Make sure that turbo has some wiggle room to not hit the fender well. Engines move A LOT when driving.

Well, I've had some complications.
First, the j - pipe hit the engine mounting bracket. Not the mount but the bracket that goes from the frame to the mount. Had to remove that bracket and notch it.
Second, the turbo hit the shock tower. Had to cut the mounting bracket and tip the turbo up and away from the tower.
Third, I never had the alternator in place during mock up... had to modify the top bracket and get a longer belt.
Fourth, with the wastegate in place, my exhaust routing has had to change. That is where I am now.

I was also shipped an aluminum v band flange instead of the stainless one. A friend had one, so a few hours lost. No biggie.

There is no power steering in the car. I think the bracket seen is the mounting bracket I made to hang the turbo.

SNAG.
I cannot run my exhaust (without going through the inner fender like a fender well header) because of the transmission kick down rod. I MAY, and this is a HUGE MAY, be able to modify the kick down to move it out of the way. That it, if all the stars align and I hold my tongue just right!
Even a 2.5" down pipe would be an absolute bullseye!

Once I attach the oil return line and finish weld the exhaust, I should be able to start it up &#128518;

Everything is tight clearance! Guarantee things are going to hit!

Well, folks, it's alive!
Started it up this afternoon!
I have some carb issues... at first the fuel was squirting from the vent. Lowered the float and it stopped. Once I got it started and idling, it acts as if it runs out of fuel. Fires up fairly quickly. Then the same thing. Hesitation with throttle. Runs out of fuel.
I have a thought on this... the reference source on the fuel pump sees vacuum as well as boost. I think that under vacuum, it is not allowing the diaphragm to push the correct amount of fuel to the carb, running it low or out.
When I disconnected the source, the carb sprays fuel again. Perhaps now that the pressure is correct, the float is too high.
I will adjust the float again tomorrow and try again.

Small victories! It started!

Awesome!

Glad to hear you got it running.

Very quickly I might add, good job!

MBHD

I removed the reference line from the fuel pump. Adjusted the float.
Crank it over and fountain of fuel. Lowered the float some more. Same. More. Same. When it stops raining in will remove the bowl again and make sure nothing dodgy is going on.
Can't see my stock pump having too much pressure!

Take some video! Very excited for you.

Ok. So here is where I am at...
Base timing is at 10*
With vacuum advance it sits at 25*
Doesn't idle very smooth.
When I put it in gear, it almost stalls.
I can smell the fuel in the exhaust, so I know it's not running out of fuel.
Driving...
Cruise and part throttle are quite rough.
Full throttle is not much better.
Medium acceleration is pretty good!
At higher RPM there is a noise similar to the BOV but not as loud. It is constant. The engine is also fluttering at higher RPM.

Are you sure the timing is correct? Have you verified TDC with a positive stop?
You can certainly take the charge hose off and perform the timing, just to make sure any incoming charge is not messing up your idle.

After many hours of messing around I have it running pretty good.
For now, the vacuum advance has been eliminated... too much timing at cruise.
I bought an HEI for it but haven't installed it yet.
My carb hat and BOV flange were leaking under boost. I made new ones!
Never noticed the choke linkage coming through the body... removed it and sealed It yesterday. Then the seal blew out at 5 psi
New seal this morning before I left for work.
Got rid of my Flowmaster. Now I have a thrush straight through. Tail pipe to be installed tomorrow... the only part of the exhaust I can't do.

I need to vent the crankcase more. It it pushing oil out under boost. Don't know if I should nix the pcv and replace it with 2 air filters.

What would it take to get 400 HP out of my stock 194?
Here's my thought...
j & s safeguard
meth injection
fully done head
15 psi

would that about do it?

I have a good grand national engine available to me and I'm weighing options.

Unless your looking for a one time shot and not concerned with longevity that might work. Otherwise, O-ring the block, head studs, main studs, probably more camshaft, minimum of ARP rod bolts, preferably H-Beam rods like Eagle or Scat. Might be cheaper to get the GN engine.

IIRC, This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVJyHrNzXG8

66 Nova had a completely bone stock GN engine that had a lot of tuning done to it.

MBHD

The turbo I have is not right for me... I'm now finding information about it... the turbine is 1.15 A/R compressor is .60 A/R
I don't see ANY boost until 4000 rpm
I'd rather not blow up my engine by turning it too high.

So, I found a brand spanking new in the box turbo a short drive away.
It has a .63 A/R turbine with a .70 A/R compressor. Think this one will be more impressive.

Hope to have it running in the next two nights... just waiting for the exhaust flange to arrive.

Well. She's a runner! Pulls like a school boy, to be honest!

I think I am running out of fuel after a 5-6 second full throttle!
6 seconds in I'm at about 55 mph.
On the highway, a full throttle blast from 60 resulted in similar fuel starving at about 90 MPH.

I imagine it is running out of fuel because it reacted almost identical before I had the boost reference on the fuel pump.

Still don't have an a/f meter
living on the edge, but at least I am aware of it!

How much boost is it seeing? Turbos are fun!
This is on a little 194, Correct?

Correct, Tom.
I see a consistent 6 psi from about 3500 up to 5000.

Though, I have not heard my wastegate open (it is vented to atmosphere).
It does have a 7 psi spring in it.

I have not rechecked for leaks since the new turbo.

Let's see pictures of it now that it is a runner.

How about some video?

Be careful running it lean, piston destruction will be certain.

Did a road trip to Ohio on Friday. Took the Nova. Averaged about 18 MPG.
70 MPH @ 3100 RPM.
Not too bad! I thought the RPM would be lower. Guess the gears are not what I thought. 3.3ish?

Still need to put some more pics up... Sorry for the delay.
Not sure on how to do the video.

It's funny how seeing the old 6 with the turbo blows some people's minds and others are like '7 psi?! Weak!'

Wondering if the 194 would take 11 psi. Or even 15. I haven't got the intercooler yet, which would be a must for more boost. Like to do the meth injection too but no dollars for that.

The 4200 is becoming more enticing every time I think about it... Need more!
It IS addictive!

You should have contacted me and stopped by. Maybe next time.

Sorry, Tom!
We were on a very tight time line! Being held at the border put the squeeze on!

Educated guess.... what am I looking at for power out of this setup?

194 ci
Offy intake (heavily massaged)
Holley 500 2 barrel.
7 psi
28* total timing

and how about when I add the intercooler and a meth injection kit?

I'm very glad I stumbled across this thread. I'm contemplating just such a mod to the 194 in my 64 Nova for this year's hot rod power tour. One of these days, I'd like to get around to a full engine build, but for the time being, I was wondering if I could slap a turbo on the old girl and not blow anything up.

How did you resolve this clearance issue?

The whole build was surprisingly simple.
I removed the kick down rod on the powerglide (fully expecting it to grenade) but have put almost 200 miles on it without fault.
I removed it for the clearance issue, but didn't hesitate too much because it didn't seem to work anyway!
One thing I wish I'd done is move the turbo forward another inch or so... would've solved ssome clearance on the shock tower.

ever get any pics or videos? can't wait to turbo my 194.