Hello new guy here. My name is Erik and i live in Norway. Here is some pics of my 1963 Chevy2 Nova. The engine is a 250 cui with Accel DFI and a T76q turbo, running E85. Looking forward to browsing this forum for some good inliner info.

There was just some interest in another post about not having enough room to mount a turbo in a Chevy II, so im sure your pics of this will be helpful as well! Welcome to Inliners, and hope you enjoy the discussions....

That is a very clean set up! How does it run? I'm involved in a 292 turbo project and I hope it turns out looking that good!

Nice work Erik,
Details please on your turbo set-up.
Has it been to a track,dynoed,raced,etc,etc.
How much boost you are running?
Automatic trans, what kind,manual trans,what kind,what stall on converter if applicable? & so-on.

For the early Novas,
I was saying we could possibly use the SPA turbo exhaust manifold & use an adaptor pipe to locate the turbo where it will fit like in the position where your T76Q turbo sits.

BTW, what are the specs on your turbo?
turbine wheel is a Q ,w/a A/R turbine housing of????


Anymore pics of your build,pistons,compression,clyinder heads mods,if any,,, etc,etc.

BTW, I like the 194 sticker,sleeper, a guy that thinks the way I do????

Thanks
Rick

Erik,
Is that head one where the intake is part of the head ?
Does anyone know on those heads if the intake is divided ?

Harry

Nice job Erik. Looks very Sweet& Clean. Great for a stock hood sleeper look. Harry Thats not a intergrated head. Look at the bolts in the photo. You can see that it is a two peice.At least it looks that way to me. And I told you there was room in front of the shock tower hehe.

slick, what does she run

Erik, awesome job,, more info please,,,what throttle body, is there one injector per runner tapped into the stock manifold???,
I'm assuming that's the fuel rail running along the valve cover,,,

Thanks for the kind words! As for now the dyno figures stand at 530 hp@5300 and 588 lbs@4000rpms at the flywheel, with 21psi boost and E85.
A/R is 1.15, full boost is at 3000rpms in fourth gear on the highway. I must say it pulls very good in a car this light. Gearbox is a M20 manual with 2.73 in the rear. No 1/4 times yet.

The engine is basically stock LOL. Well not completely stock
Mild porting on the head 1.94, 1.6 valves, no lump or removed divider. Ported stock intake with bungs welded on it, throttle body is from a Ford 4.6 V8. Fuel supply is by six 120lbs injectors. Forged 307 pistons STD bore , stock rods, stock rockers, stock pushrods,stock oilpump, GM duramoly rings.ARP on rods and head, 1025 head gasket.
Compression is around 8:1, cranking pressure are 120psi with a crane 204-216@50 camshaft. Its actually a hyd camshaft but i run mech lifters on it(very small lash) the valve springs and retainers are GM L31 parts.(leftovers)i rev it to 6300rpms.

The exhaust is the stock manifold that i welded a T4 flange on and did some porting on, wastegate is from Audi. Downpipe is 3" with one straight through
muffler. Thats about it. The goal now is to make as much power with this basic configuraton as possible, and then build an all out engine later. Here is some pics of the build.

Erick,
again,, nice work!
Just wondering if you knew what your injector duty cycle was at when you dynoed the engine @ 530 hp?
120 Lb injectors are pretty big,how does it idle ,good?

Your turbo, non ballbearing?

Also wondering if you can get to full boost in first & second gear?
Your A/R 1.15 housing seems pretty big for any low RPM power,yes,no?
Just me thinking out loud. :-)

The turbo has a water cooled center section?

Glad to see another turbo inliner here that can give us details & share their findings & knowledge.

Any plans on intercooling?

Two thumbs up!

MBHD

That's amazing.

E85 must be nice (not really avialable in this part of the US, didn't know it was available in Norway either).

Very well sorted looking piece.

seems to be a discrepancy if I convert the hp/rpm to tq or if I convert tq/rpm to hp, any chance one of your figures is off?

still impressive.

thanks

Dude you are my new hero
I have a 68 Chevelle wich came with a 250.

I pulled the 250 out and installed a GN engine in the car. Now I need to rebuild the 3.8 and have been thinking about going in another direction which was to put a turbo on the 250 or a SBC.
Anyway. Your set up is AWESOME dude.
I have a few questions.
1- Would you make an exhaust and intake manifold for me?
2- How do you think it would run on 93 octane, intercooler and Akly?
3-How much did the complete project $$$$ run you?

Spa make a turbo exhaust manifold & tlowe sells them here or on Ebay.
His intake & exhaust are stock original pieces that are modified I believe.
You can run a larger 3 bolt truck exhaust manifold & connect a pipe along w/tubing to position the turbo where ever you like.

With a mild tune on alky & 93 octane,you should be able to make 350-500 HP depending on all of your supporting mods pretty easy,& this would not a max effort engine..

MBHD

I looked all over the net for SPA and couldn't find them, Can you post a link?
What year and model truck for that manifold?
My goal is to go 11.50s on a daily driver; could it be done with a Turboed 250?
Do you have a write up on your car? (in your sig.)
thanks
David

Here is one also.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SPA-Turbo...emZ320164001492

They are $120 if you can get them from Brazil.
Guys,,,,chime in here on what year truck manifold has the larger exit.

If you have everything set-up nicely & run sticky tires on a daily driver & does not weight too much, 11's can be achieved.

No write up on my car,it's a work in progress,a slow progress ;-)

MBHD

Thanks for the link
Do you know who makes that intake manifold? That thing is bada$$
Sorry for all of the questions but to me this is a new thing with the 250 engines. About 8 years ago I looked for any type of info on these engines and found nothing and now this WOW.
Thanks.
David

I have two of the 2.5" truck manifolds. One came from a early '70s truck, the other was a new replacement I got off e-bay. I bought the replacement to create a split manifold for my '37 and it may be usefull in a turbo application for the same reasons I bought it. The exhaust outlet sits under cylinder #s 4&5 instead of under the carb flange, and it points pretty much straight down. There is a big flat area under the # 2&3 cylinders that allowed me to build a symetrical split manifold. The 292 manifold besides having the rearward sited outlet, is flat under the carbflange going forward until under the 2-3 cylinders, and it has reinforcement "fins" front and rear.

Having the outlet under 4&5 gives more distance to wrangle the exhaust pipe and the straight down, rather than pointed rearward, doesn't hurt either if you are using one for a turbo placed as in the photos above in this thread.

dave68,
the pic's on ebay are of my motor in my 65 elcamino. i built it from the ground up. i sell the SPA manifolds and cheaper than that guy on ebay. if interested in a manifold PM me. for tech stuff , ask away. tom

Greybeard,,,
could you possibly post a picture of the truck exhaust manifold?
I do not think anyone has done that..

MBHD

David,
I am pretty sure the intake manifold is a stock cast iron piece that has been machined flat where the carb sits & then drilled & tapped for 4 bolts or studs, @ least that is how it appears to me.

MBHD

[quote=Dave68]Do you know who makes that intake manifold? That thing is bada$$
Thanks.
David

Are you on the TC site and go by the same name?
My name over there is Turbopowered68 I tried getting the same name here but I screwed something up along the way.
Anyway I would like to do something like this on my Chevelle.
Right now I have an 87 GN engine in it and the Turbo just took a dump plus the engine could use a rebuild. So because of this I have been thinking about going with a deferent set up.
I still have the OE 250 that came in the car and I think this would be a real cool set up if I can get similar results to the GN set up and if it doesn’t cost much more then my current set up.

How strong are the 250 blocks?
Could I use the OE Crank?
Could I use the OE Rods?
Do they make a roller Cam for this engine?
Like I said I am looking to dip into the 11.50s and still have a good DD that gets allot of miles and long trips.
Thanks for you help.
David

[/quote]

How strong are the 250 blocks?
Could I use the OE Crank?
Could I use the OE Rods?
Do they make a roller Cam for this engine?


[/quote] These blocks seem to be pretty stout even when using forced induction. The stock cranks can be used as well. You can use the stock rods up to a point, but there are 6" H-beam rods available that are application specific just for the 250, and are very reasonably priced. Roller cams are available for these engines, but the cores are hard for some cam companies to get from time to time, and are kinda' pricey. But those type of components are out there, and your goal of performance should be fairly easy to obtain....

Quote"
How strong are the 250 blocks?
Could I use the OE Crank?"

With about 1000 HP,it seems these engines will stay together, with stock crank & maincaps.


Guys in Brazil with there turbocharged 250's are making up to 1400 HP with stock cranks ,stock main caps,no girdle.
With 1/4 mile times of 8.2 ,that is the record for a car.IIRC.

That is about the limit it seems for stock items.
Just know that @ these power levels,the cranks do walk around & they do eventually break. Not bad for stock components though,,right?

Now this information I am telling is what I have been told from friends in Brazil.
But,,, I have seen the videos on the record setting Dyno HP & 1/4 runs.

MBHD

Hello.
I have been away from the computer so im a litte late on the answers.
Idle is good with the 120lbs injectors, duty cycle at idle is 2%.
Duty cycle is around 70% at full throttle. I will make a intercooler for it in the spring, not decided on A/A or A/W yet.
According to the logs i dont get full boost in 1 gear,2nd gear yes full boost. Regular bearing turbo.
The intake is a stock intake i bored out to 3" and filled in and contured the entry with high temp epoxy.Then milled it flat and added a elbow from a ford 4.6.
Power on pump gasoline is 400hp @ 13 psi.

i've been away from while...

here in Brazil is not uncommon to see 700-800 HP on wheels. no girdle, stock crank, just arp studs, forjed rods and pistons.

There was a chevy 250 twin turbo that made 1200HP and i think 8.5s on 1/4 mile.

I have a project to build a 1000HP - 200HP on nitro progress, i will use a girdle and a 4340 crank, i wont run 1/4 mile runs. but 3 kms top speed/acceleration runs! i think a stock crank will not hold! :-p

Edy

just to put water in your mouth...

http://www.engineracing.com.br/pecasnacionais.html

just click on "MAIS DETALHES" to see a bigger picture

edy

Love Seeing my Dream Come true before me. Turbo and F.I. in a First Gen Chevy II=makes for one bad little motor in one awesome little car.

I also have a First Gen Chevy II with a 250 sitting on an engine stand next to it. I have been wanting to pull off turbo-charging for a long time.

We had a discussion about remote turbos and moving the unit around . But here it Looks like all I might need to ldo is ocate a truck exhaust manifold to move exhaust out down low and then I could easily start assembling this package on my 250.

Did I miss Ignition in your parts build?

Does the Accel DFI work in cooperation with the Distributor and Timing or did you utilize an outside Timing adjustment device to synchronize or retard timing under full load?

Keep going man, you have got the attention of this group....

I talked to Tom Langdon about using his cast iron headers for a turbo application,he said nobody he knows has done it & said they should be good for that.

I would rather use his new header castings over a used truck manifold that would be a bit restrictive plus you need to block off the top of the manifold where it boltsa up to the intake manifold for heat.
http://www.stoveboltengineco.com/acartpro/

Just a thought.


MBHD

Isn't Tlowe selling tubo manifolds for the 292 type six?

i do, but they do not fit the 62-67 chevyII chassis. I can get them to make a manifold if someone can show me where to put the turbo in the engine bay. tom

T.Lowes Brazillian Manifolds wont work with Chevy II (first gen) because of shock tower, but they are fine for other cars, trucks and Elco's.

And yea you are right Hank, Tom Langdons headers would work here (not having to block off a stock type exh manifold), with this turbos set up, they would be great. I would just have to make a Y-pipe right there and route forward to meet the turbo and then plumb out turbo to Carb or (I really like Eriks 4.6 F.I.) Fuel injection. I could mimic Eriks set up from pictures he posted for the most part.

Tom, turbo would need to be where Erik placed his. This would be like where the old power steering unit might have gone. Most efficient spot with good access back to carb or f.i. and room below to route out spent gases, right? I think someone measured and sent this to you, I will check.

Hey guys maybe this is another Thread but i want to look at the best F.I., for this type of app. Is it the Accell he is using here?

James,
looking at this very issue with fuel injection on my project. Going to go rummage through some experienced auto parts this weekend and take a look at mopar (jeep) inline port F.I. and, if
I can find one, a throttle body off a 7.5 GM truck. A couple of different ideas are percolating. Working with an Inliner member that races at the lake so he's been helpful. You get to this stage the pocket book has to open some.

Let us know how you intend to develop your F.I. system. Good stuff all.
If it aint broke, you're not trying.

Having F.I. first before adding a turbo seems to make sense, because of the constant adjustments F.I. makes. I have already heard that flexibilty makes a Turbo application so much easier to tune.

I am going to break my engine in with a Holley 390, get it running and then I will start doing research like yourself.

I think later that if I bought another Offy manifold I could even have it tapped for six injectors and hooked up to whatever modern day system. I am sure there is a way to program that accordingly. Even Clifford sells a fuel inject system but real expensive.

Yes i am running Accel Thruster ECU , its kind of a budget minded system. It works good. The ignition is all controlled by the ECU , the distributor is the trigger. I am still running the original Ac Delco coil that came on the car in 1963, thats quality!

PS if you are going to run the langdon headers you could make a puls split system with a divided exhaust housing.

James,
other threads have beeen discussing F.I. and some problems really popped out. Really went to "school" in engine discussion thread. Thank you contributors. My buddy ted says we'll make our own hybrid. Like eric's design, w/throttle butterfly up front, followed by a lead tube with the injectors in two rows on top of it. that section transitions into the intake. plan on using GM system off a 5 liter V-8 and use all 8 injectors. So, a throttle body using port style injectors? It's crazy enough it might work?
later.

fuel injected interest keeps me on this,,, I see summit has universal elbows set up for square flange carb setups and uses ford or gm throttle bodies, but that takes me back to the idea of a straight throttle body,, like a salvage 4.3 setup, and painless wiring kit,,will the turbo not work as well on those setups as port injectors,,?

GM throttle bodies are a low pressure affair, 12-15 psi. for fuel. The people who have done this before say one needs to maintain 5 to 6 psi above boost pressure...requiring an adjustable fuel pressure regulator that responds to boost. stands to reason since they were originally a vacuum based system. TBI fuel regulators are integral within the unit. I don't want to go there on my project. Seems like a number of us are dealing with this right now. Good luck. PS.. lots of info on other threads here..

TTT

A little update on my turbo Nova, changed the wastegate to a 60mm
HKS knockoff , works great rock steady boost pressure.I run 7 psi as "everyday" boost, more that fast enough . Other than that i have been cruising it in the nice summer weather.I attended the 4 July Midnight cruising here in Norway, alot of American cars there. I think i can safely say i was the only turbo inliner there. I had the car loaded with 4 pepole and it was pretty fun pulling some of the V8 guys with their new "crate" engines, they are like WTF was that????




Look at the super duper defroster in the rear screen, has been there since the car was new.

Bosanova,,
if you could post a video,or link & more pics of your car running,,, accelerating ,,or,spanking a V-8 thingy,,or,,??


That would be way cool.


MBHD

Also bosanova I wouldn't mind having some video of that as well for my web site.If you wouldn't mind Thanks.

Here is a little clip of it idling. This is all the video i have of it right now, but some more videos is in the works.

Bosanova,
thanks for the clip.

Pictures would be nice also.

MBHD

Any new updates?

I noticed the Mitsubishi alternator? on the Right hand side,,how did you mount that? Seen on your photobucket album.

Just curious.

MBHD

Not really any new updates, just been driving it through the summer. As to the Mitsubishi alternator i made up brackets for it and bolted it on . I use those alternators on all my old cars , works great and are small and light.

Hello! I managed to find some time to put the Nova on the rollers at work. Mainly to do some fine tuning on part load and transition. The dyno is a Mustang brand with a eddy brake.
It made 380whp at 5070rpms and torque was 412wlb, this is at 16psi in the manifold.The pulls where done in 3rd gear.



I know you guys like dyno stuff and videos, so here you are.



A pic to

Ahhhh, very nice!

Sounds great!

I thought you run more boost than 16 PSI ????
Video is great!!!

Nice stock looking Nova A.K.A. sleeper!!


MBHD

Just noticed that some of the pictures in this tread is gone, so i am putting them up again. I am also working on a new engine for the ChevyII going to use a Precision 78GTS turbo will try for 1000hp on the flywheel, will post some pics and info on that engine as i get a little further along with it.
[img][/img]

Ahhh, very nice again I will say,!!!!!!!!!! Awesome ride!

Did something happen to this engine? 250 CI

Could you state the specs on this engine for now?

Cam specs,compression,etc. Boost pressure?

Valve sizes,boss on intake port there?
TB size?
Turbo specs, just for refreshing us again.

B.T.W.,any close up shots of your alternator brackets?
I always liked the Mitsu alternators being small & light.

Thanks

MBHD

Specs are 250cui,TRW forged pistons, 1.94-1.6 valves boss still there, head somewhat ported , Crane 204-216@50 112LSA,comp 8,5:1, TB size around 65mm, Turbonetics T76 Q-trim, HKS 60mm gate, 120lb injectors, Accel DFI.

Boost usually 7-16 Psi. Nothing happened to this engine... yet LOL. Trying to get a intercooler on it during the winter, and i am going to really push it hard when the season begins. Would be cool to see over 500rwhp on a somewhat stockish engine.

Very impressive power! I like the setup. Have you ever taken it to a track or gotten performance #'s for acceleration?

I would say it should run easy 12's if not 11's if set up properly.

He said it does have a slow spooling up time in 1'st,big A/R on turbine housing IIRC.

Light car + all the HP,WOW!


MBHD

Yeah, mine is a pig compared to the chevyII. 3750 with me in it. Spools just fine though. Tom

By your spools up just fine,,,does that mean you can hold the brakes & get full boost & launch?
Just curious.

MBHD

No , can't do that. That would be holding back alot of tq, too hard on my little ole 700r4, which I am surprised has lasted this long. Tom

It's fairly obvious I do not know all that goes into a turbo, let alone a twin turbo, application. There are many on this site that have years of practical experience and knowledge on this subject.
Althought this was an exercise in pure conceptual and perhaps visual accomplishments, it has led me to think of a more practical Horsepower gain solution. This idea, still in it's infancy, will utilize off the shelf products but used in a unique combination with each other. An alternative to superchargers and turbochargers that I think will result in the same horsepower if not a good precentage more! It would be a simple bolt-on afternoon installation with no advanced mechanical degree needed. Simply, a "kit" that could give your motor a large "Kick". Please be patient while I still gather more info on this idea. I will present it here for all to critique soon.

I think my Sy is a lot harder on a 700 R4,AWD,3600 lb truck w/ no driver. Last time dynoed it made 386 HP & 550 ft lbs of torque.
That is why guys w/there modded Syclones & Typhoons switch to a 4L80E,then they can beat the crap out of them & not have any tranny problems.

I can launch @ 5,10,15,or 20 PSi w/the stock 2100 stall converter,would be a lot easyier if I had a 2600-2800 stall, not overheat & still lock-up the converter for decent gas mileage.

I recommend a TCI unit from rusty in AZ,billet cover 9" w/an 11" lock-up disc.
I would like to get one,but no extra $$$.

I think I have been lucky w/my 700,I think @ the power level it has, the tranny should let go.

Generally, I do not launch above 10-15 PSI, but you need to be able to boost launch your vehicle if you want to run any good 60 ft time or 1/4 mile time. Last 60 ft time was 1.68

MBHD

great stuff guys

Any new updates lately?

MBHD

Can someone educate me about something please?

On the passenger side of this engine there is an aluminum canister with a breather on it. It has hoses plumbed to it from the front and rear of the valve cover. It seems to be there to collect oil, but why?

Thanks:
Paul...aka Xerxes

Turbo motors tend to produce more blowby. This is a method to vent the crankcase effectively so all your gaskets don't blow and seep oil.

Ah...Thanks.

The amount of trapped pressure released is still a function of the exit area (the breather), but the can has 2 advantages:
1. more oil will settle out (the air inside the can is "quieter"), thus less oil goes out the breather
2. the extra volume inside the can slows down the "huffing" effect of the pistons going up & down and averages the pressure (the crankcase volume varies constantly due to rod geometry - the pumping never balances out)

Guys w/there turbocharged LS series engines run vacuum pumps to there crankcases.

MBHD

I thank vacuum pumps are the best way to go, but they are definitely not free, and they're hard to hide.

Right - something has to drive it, it needs brackets and adjusters, plumbing to a masked source, and $$$. A JY smog pump is a help, but not big enough.
I like to design in as much "passive" stuff (no or few simple moving parts, tuning is done by size and path routing) for oil control and pressure management as I can.
A can for breather expansion can be improved a bit, but it's not easy.
1. the holes from the valve cover should be as big as possible to kill velocity.
2. crankcase pressure reaches the head through the pushrod drains, and they're not as big as I'd like (plus, the vapor carries the oil back up with it), which is why some plumb a big hose or pipe from the tappet cover or the side of the oil pan, or timing cover directly to an expansion tank.
3. if you have an electric fuel pump, the pump hole can be a pressure take-off.
4. if you still have oil spray at the last breather opening, make the pipe supplying it vertical, as tall and large ID as possible (before hood clearance).

I have taken the Nova out of its winter hibernation, and it looks like the TPS is broken. It seems it was partially broken last year to when i had it on the dyno, because the logs show the tps % is flying up and down during the pull. Still working on a new motor for it and also working on a intercooler. I really want a air/air intercooler but i dont want to cut to much on the car, so its kind of difficult.

I see your video on youtube & there are questions for you.

Intercooler installed yet?

Or @ least show us some pics of your intercooler.

Thanks



MBHD

WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS THREAD?!?!?!?!?!?!

This is awesome! I would love to see what this would do on a 0-60 or a quarter