I recently bought a 57 chevy 150 handyman wagon with a great running 235 L6

Im retired on a small pension but I'd like to build a turbo for it.

I read through a bunch of old posts. Lots of talk about 250's and 292s but I don't see much on the 235.

I was thinking of a draw through type simular to the corvair. Keep it simple. I am not looking for a screamer, just a nice driving car with a little different engine.

Apparently you can't get parts for Rajay turbos any more?

Would a garrett T-3 be about the right size? I would not want to run much over 5 psi boost and keep it under 200 hp.

I looked at mustang SVO and thunderbird turbo coupe info from the early 80's could any of that be used? I'm not sure if they are draw through or blow through.

Thanks in advance

Gary

A turbo setup from a early carbed buick 3.8 would work great. Easy to install.
Years of use, guessing 1980-1983 in Buick regal limited and the early Grand Nationals.
This was the one before they went fuel injection. It was a Quadrajet.
Reclock it and practically bolt it on.

On ebay right now.
TURBO

I hate to sound so ignorant, but what do you mean by reclock it?

Is the pontiac turbo mentioned on ebay the same as the buick one?

Thanks

The Trans Am turbo is larger & I would say it will give you more turbo lag especially w/only a 235 CI engine.

The Pontiac turbo is larger than the 3.8 turbo, the carb adaptor/manifold is also different.
They would be in different positions if were to bolt them up on a manifold, not a lot, but there are differences.

I would say the 3.8 Buick regal turbo would be closer to what you are looking for as far as performance & boost limit.
Years made about 1978 -1982 ish.
They also had the same set-up on some Monte carlos of the same era.
Try & get a complete set-up along w/a carb if possible.


Reclocking is just loosening the compressor cover bolts to the center cartridge & repositioning the compressor cover.

MBHD

thanks you guys, I kinda thought that might be what reclocking meant but I wasn't sure. I found this on ebay, Is it the right one?

Looks like its missing the carb adapter plate and carb?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271060459505?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648

Pretty sure that is not the correct one.
That is for a 1986 - 87 blow though. It does not have a carb adaptor.They do not need one for fuel injection.

MBHD

Thanks How about this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370635840577?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 Says its a 79 buick rivera? Was the 3.8 the only turbo engine then?

That one is simular,,, but, it looks like it does not have the correct compressor discharge cover. The one w/3 hole flange.

Hard to see in the pic. Ask if he can take more pics of the compressor discharge area to be certain.

I do not believe there was any other factory GM turbo V-8 car other than a Turbo Trans Am 301 V-8.

MBHD

That looks like the right one. The sellers # is listed. Ask I it has a 3 bolt exh flange. It probably does. You will be able to remove a bunch of the smog junk to clean it up.

I don;t even know which end is the intake and which is the exhaust end LOL (Shows how ignorant I am, but I am learning) Looks like there are some more pictures down lower (12 total). One shows the bottom of the unit and I can see a two flange and the other end is a three flange. If I am looking at the right part.

Thanks again
Gary

OK, does not appear to be the correct one.

There is no 3 bolt flange on the compressor outlet.

Tlowe has one, post up some pics Tlowe.


MBHD

Just got in.
That is not the right one. It needs the 3 bolt flange from the compressor to bolt into your intake.

Well Dang! close but not cigar. Im still looking but so far nuthin. If we were to find the right (three bolt) compressor housing, would the rest of it work?

http://picasaweb.google.com/sixpics/292#5270033625773996354

MBHD

Here are the rest of the PICTURES that go with that one. Sadly that project has not progressed. I think this is the same as the one I posted the link to on eBay earlier in this thread.

Ok guys, I think I have the picture.

I see where the turbo bolts to the intake manifold on the 292 with the three bolts.

The only problem I have is that the 235 intake only has 2 bolts that normally hold the carb down and the spacing is considerably smaller. Would I be better off blocking the top and cutting a larger hole in the side of the intake?

I wish I knew how to post pictures on here.

The 194,230,250,292 intakes have only 2 studs to mount the 1 bbl carb. They need to mod the intake as well.
I think the carbs (235 & 292) bolt patterns are the same? Not sure though.

MBHD

When I mounted the turbo I used one stock hole and drilled two more to match the turbo mount. Then I cut the manifold bigger and got into the exhaust heat jacket which I had to fill. It would be a lot easier to use a 4bbl intake and make an adapter plate for the turbo. I'll pull the turbo and take a picture of the manifold if it will help. You could probably make an adapter on the stock manifold. I turned one over once and made an adapter plate over the heat riser side to mount a WCFB. It sorta' worked.

PICTURES? Go to that Stovebolt web site and find the Short Bus forum. It has lots of computer info. That is where I learned to post pictures and links to pictures. Beater

I see now, You have to modify the intake manifold to match the face of the compressor outlet.

If you used a 4bbl intake you could make the adapter in whatever shape was needed to match the turbo outlet.

Do they sometimes use a large hose between the intake and the turbo? Seems like I have seen that done.

I hate sounding so ignorant

Another thing to remember about with turbos. Not all of them can have fuel pass thru them. Most are made for just air and no fuel. The early Buick and that Pontiac 301 unit is made for fuel to pass thru. The other types would get the seal destroyed with fuel.

Thanks Mr Lowe, I read in some of the corvair liteture about the draw through systems needing the carbon seal and that most turbos don;t have one. Im pretty sure I am going to use some version of the buick system if i can find one.

I added 3 pictures to the ALBUM . I had to mill the mounting area flat and fill the outside stock hole. I think if you started with a 1/2" aluminum plate you could use the outside stock hole with a counter sunk screw and match the inside hole with the top turbo outlet hole and drill and tap two more holes for the other turbo flange bolts. I'd use studs for those two. With a 1/2" plate adapter you could blend the intake and output throats. Just my idea but it would be cheap. I could not find a stock manifold to photograph but I'm sure the spread is the same as a 235.

Thanks for the pictures.
Its starting to fit together in my head, how this thing is done.

So if I had a 4 barrel intake I could fab a right angle adapter to mate with the nose of the compressor exhaust housing, even if it didn;t have the right 3 bolt exhaust. The three bolt simplifies the project in that you don't have to make an adapter. Is that correct?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/81-MONTE-CARLO-T...1b050bf&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-GM-3-8-L-V6...a67bb89&vxp=mtr


MBHD

Thanks for the links I will keep an eye on them and possibly bid on one. I don't know how you find them, I have been searching ebay for several days and didn't see either of them.

On several of the pictures you can see am iron casting that sticks out at right angles to the turbo (comes off the carb casting) and looks like it bolts to the block or intake. (square hole, two bolts) IT has a metal pot or something on top of it. What is that for? water circulation?

This has really been a learning experience for me and I can;t thank all of you enough for your help.

I have been recommending for guys to use one of these set-ups on there inlines but I do not think anyone here actually has one up & running.

I.M.O., it is the most easy way & cheapest to get a turbo on your inline 6.

MBHD

Pretty sure what you are seeing is EGR stuff. That is smog hardware and you won't be using it. Hank is probably right about the 3.8 setups. That is listed as 231 ci and that is good for your 235. As he says you won't find a more simple less expensive turbo unit.

Beater, That makes sense. (EGR)

I agree with both of you, Yep, looks like the way to go. It's just a matter of scrapin up the money. Im leaning toward that unit missing the carb. I've got a couple later model quadrajets out in the shop.

If I understand things correctly, the aftermarket intakes arn't useable with the stock exhaust manifold, so a header would be required. Might be better off just milling the top of the stock intake off like you did.

we will see how it goes.

Have you thought of using a stock exhaust and looping under the oil pan to mount a turbo on the Passenger side of the block? I'm not for sure of the room you'll have on your Handyman Wagon, but on my truck there's gobs of room for it.

Like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFajr4QgARk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIxrRpjIa2g&list=UUo0VSSVd3KYJIXrzihzaeTQ&index=1&feature=plpp_video

Do not attemt to do it this way, B.T.W.

Unless you know how to properly set it up corrctly.

MBHD

I can see why someone would want to put it on the paseenger side.
The advantage would be (other than a lot more room) that you would not need the special nose on the compressor exhaust. Any properly sized draw through turbo would work so long as it mated to the intake pipe on the manifold.

In the video, it looks to me like the carb needs to be closer to the compressor and turbo to elimanate the frosting situation.

For now, Im going to try to keep it on the drivers side and low enough that I can close the hood (with an air cleaner on the carb. I don't want any hole or bulge in the hood.

A blow through would be better then.

A fellow over on the classic chevy site asked me how much horsepower I expected, Of coarse I didn;t know so I did a little reading and from what I can see, it looks like people expect from 7-10 hp per lb boost on the conservative side to 20 on the liberal side. So if the 235 put out 140hp and I add 5 lbs boost would 190hp be realistic?
Thanks

Throw the horsepower idea out the window. Your engine will not rev that high. TQ is what you will increase. Expect 5-10% increase in TQ for each LB of boost.
As an example of what these look like and availability, here is a turbo setup from a pontiac trans am 301 circa 80-81. Picked it up at a swapmeet this weekend for 80.00 as you see it. Also saw a buick one for 295.00 . So they are out there.

Not for sale is it?

Is it in good shape?
Does the shaft spin?
It his your 2nd or 3rd set-up now?

MBHD

250 ft/lbs at 4,000 RPM is 190 hp.

Frank Mcgurk got 197 HP out of a 261 back in the 50's. I can't see why a well built 235 couldn't do the same, espesially with a turbo.

http://www.selectric.org/55chevy/soup.html

I was chasing down a local lead on a used clifford 4 bbl intake for a 235 and found an intake with a holley two barrel, offenhauser rocker cover, and split headers. THe down side is I think they are for a 250/292 not a 235. Anyone intersted in some trading for a 3.8 turbo?

Sell the 235 and buy a 250, you're a cam away from a great running engine, thought I'd throw that in before someone tries and talk you into a 4200

I'm not sure what I am going to do. Seems like the only people that want the 235's is the late 40's chevy truck guys. It's to nice an engine to scrap, but we will see, I can always put them on ebay too.

I was told that engine weighs as much as a B.B.C. , why would you want an engine that weighs that much w/hardly any output?

JMO

MBHD

A '57 wagon with a turboed 235 would be a unique and fun car to drive. If you are driving and having fun it would be fine. If you are going to build a race car it won't be fun very often.

Yeah, the 235's are decent upgrades for the guys that have 216's in the older cars and trucks, but they are heavy, and upgrading to a 250 or 292 is well worth the effort if you are looking for a more modern alternative. Plus, there are guys on the Stovebolt forum that give away the 235's all the time for free, so I wouldn't expect anything spectacular from ebay if you try to sell it.

I got my running 292 free over on Stovebolt. Just had to go to MD to pick it up. I know. Lucky.

With a turbo, dont you just "dial-up" the performance you want?

The whole idea of wasting a turbo on a six is to make a fool of folks, aint it? 'cause you can sure put one on a V8 and really go to town.

So putting a turbo on a 216-261 series should be a bigger kick yet. You can homemake the special intake (if you want a special intake) easier since they are round to match round tubing.

Their lower ends are a bit weaker with only 4 mains (and only a 3.9375" stroke) instead of seven (4.12" stroke on the 292)--but you sure cant deem them weak, they were originally sized for use with heavy CAST IRON PISTONS. The same bearing area has sucessfully supported aluminum pistons .375" oversize (.125" over 261 @ 3.875") You're not running these things flat out every moment.

You want weak, go with an all out 296 ford flatmotor with their THREE main brgs.

Turbo'd stovebolts ought to be the berries.

To keep from totally hijacking this thread somewhat related thoughts are in a new thread called " Inline Evolution." It's a matter of taste and purpose. Beater

Yep something like that. I don't know that I would call putting a turbo on a 6 "wasting" it. as a v6 and a straight 6 arn't that much different. And then there are the turbo 4's

The thing is, everyone into tri-five chevys poo poo the poorly 6 and Id like to have something that would wake em up a bit.

As I understand it, yes, I can dial in the boost I want but I don't want a lot, Maybe 5lbs boost. Just enough to make it a good cruser.

Well we are making progress, I bought a 80 buick turbo unit. It should be here Monday. Then we can start figuring out how it goes together.

I got the turbo yesterday. I am excited.

It looks good and the turbine spins freely with no noticable play.

Now I have to figure out what is necessary to stay and what needs to go.

There are a dozen vacuum ports that I have no idea what to do with other than plug em and see. I see one large square port that needs a plate made to cover it.

It looks like there are two water ports, in and out, below the carb. Is that correct?

It looks like the oil just drains out of the turbine back into the engine. correct? IF that is so, I will have to hook up some kind of line and feed it back into the engine where the oil filter drains.

I ordered a 3/4 x 4 x4 aluminum plate from speedy metals to make the adapter plate from the intake to the compressor exhaust. It should be here wednesday or thursday.

Any insights would be appreciated.

Gary

Oil drain at least 1/2" ID, must go downhill the entire length (no rise, no level span), end in the pan well above the stock oil level.
I have no idea how much oil must be diverted to the cartridge, I've heard 30 psi is enough and the original fitting works OK as a restrictor, but not sure where to take it off the block.

If you ever decide to go to a T3/4 style here's a 302 Jimmy turbo manifold, , ,

Making a little progress.

I have a 73 quadrajet that I think will work fine. I have to convert the choke from a manifold choke to a electric choke, but I think thats doable.

I figured out how to clock the turbo to keep the oil inlet on top and the drain on the bottom, and the pipes where they need to be.

Still awaiting the aluminum to make the adapter.

what am I forgetting?

I got the block to make my adapter. I got the plenum plumbed for water and ran the oil supply line to the turbo. I have to come up with a way to drain the oil. I am thinking of welding a 1/2 inch tube to the oil pan just below the top sorta like a dip stick tube. Any reason that won't work?

I wish I knew how to post pictures on here. I took some.

I think I got it figured out. Here is my turbo mounted on my 235 engine.

der="0" alt="turbo top"></a>



I will take more pictures today of the adapter plate and the plumbing

I got the adapter made today.

That is looking really cool. That thing is going to kick some butt. Simple and neat,

She's looking good Gary.

The credit for the setup goes to Tom Lowe. He was the one that suggested it and explained how it worked.

This is a very cool setup Gary, I look forward to seeing the performance!

Your doing the hard work. You get the credit. This is going to be cool to see running.

Wish I had time to make the adaptor for you.

You might look for NOS Stellite Exhaust Valves for your 235! I will tell you that there were people running a turbo on a 216 with good results, but at most 6 lbs boost. This is a good project..

http://www.vapinc.com/chevy/Valves%20and%20Parts/main.html

Make sure your lines to the waste gate actuator are on the correct sides so excess exhaust is dumped into the exhaust pipe and boost is controlled. Remember more air needs more fuel. If it's too lean the pistons melt..If your set up was OK when you got it it should be a good starting point that you can tune to your needs. Thanks for sticking with it and for sticking with the 235.

Here is the adapter mounted

That is actually a better idea than the modifications I made to my stock manifold.

I got the gaskets made. I don;t know if they have to be exceptionally thick. I made them oout of some medium gasket material I had here. I got the unit bolted down and plumbed.

I still haven't got a good way to get the oil back into the pan. I am thinking of removing the pan and welding a 1/2 inch tube just below the lip of the oil pan angled up.

Next I have to make the manifold pipe from the exaust to the turbo and the downpipe.

Here are some pictures.

The drain can go to anyplace on the engine that's lower than the bottom of the cartridge.
This may include your pushrod compartment cover, timing cover, and (if you're using an electric pump) your fuel pump opening.
Farther down is better, so if it's not too much below the turbo make the line big.
I would attach a fitting permanently to the sheet metal with a 1/16" doubler (inside for appearance), like a bulkhead fitting with an O-ring, and a compression fitting or hose barb to accept the end of the drain hose so you can take it apart without getting everything wet.

Made a little progress, I got my frame up from out back to use as a test stand. Spent 4 days sandblasting and painting it. Got the engine mounted yesterday and today I made the blockoff plate for the EGR and mounted the radiator. Im concerned that it all won't fit under the hood.

Looking good.

Looking @ the pics, I do not think your wastegate actuator is hooked up correctly.

I am thinking the wastegate actuator hose hooks up to the nipple on the compressor outlet, the 3 bolt flange, so it will see boost pressure. Where you have it hooked up, it will only see vacuum.

MBHD

I'm not sure, but I think the hose you are seeing is the outlet for the wastegate actuator. It goes into the lower half of the actuator. Its hard to see in the picture becasue of the way the compressor is clocked, but there is another short hose that comes from the compressor outlet to the upper half of the wastegate actuator on the other side.

Gary

[quote=GaryinMozarks
I'm not sure, but I think the hose you are seeing is the outlet for the wastegate actuator. It goes into the lower half of the actuator. Its hard to see in the picture becasue of the way the compressor is clocked, but there is another short hose that comes from the compressor outlet to the upper half of the wastegate actuator on the other side.

Gary [/quote]

OK, hard to tell from the pics.

MBHD

In this pic from a diferent unit you can see the hose. Its alot shorter now due to clocking

Can anyone tell me if the turbo outlet gasket for an 80 Buick turbo is a donut or a flat gasket and maybe a part number?

I found a gasket for the turbo exit. The last week has been taken up with little things needed to get it running, that take so much time. Made a new vacuum line, hooked up the boost gauge even though I plan on getting it running without the turbo first. battery and new battery cables. Finished up the exhaust. Had to rebuild the soleniod for the starter. Hopefully it will run soon.

Hey guys,

Slow prgress, but I got through the Christmas travel bit, and back at it. I got a 4 ft lockar throttle cable and the carb bracket, plus I got a walker 2 1/2 inch muffler. Still waiting for the pedal to arrive.

I had to replace the water pump and rebuld the solenoid. I had to remove and solder the radiator.

Yesterday I dragged an old bumper up from the barn to mount on the farme so I can hook up an old U-haul tow bar and take it into town to have our local exhaust guru make the up and down pipes for the turbo.

I still havn;t gotten it running yet. When I picked up the engine to set it in the frame, I used the rear head bolt to lift it. The washer I had around the bolt slipped and bent one of the pushrods, which i replaced, but I think I have it to tight. I get a poping back through the carb. I am going to have to loosen it up and check the timing.

I'm working on it outside and its turned off cold and snow, so I may postpone it till it warms up a bit.