A short video of my new turbo and Kirby-Sissell head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uKYVGH6yA8

Beautiful work!
Nice video!
That pass was with the new 12 port combo?
What was the ET on that pass?
How is the fuel distribution w/the new combo? I see bungs for each cyl reading.
Need to post more videos, great job!

MBHD

Looks like a work of art! Can't say I've ever seen a twin-carb blow through setup. Would love to know how much fun tuning that is haha.

x2 on the ET!!

This is Harry's son, and I FINALLY figured out how to post pictures. Here are a few of the build (which was very exciting to do throughout the whole process).

(Click on each link to view the pictures)

Here is another shot of the exhaust: ISO_Exhaust

The top view of the exhaust shows how little room we had: Top_Exhaust

This is the front view of the new intake and exhaust: Front_View

The new turbo/intake/exhaust being moched up: Installed

Here is the customized intercooler, one in, two out: intercooler

We had to put a bump in the hood for clearance. We copied the profile of the front headlight: hood

Hi guys
I had my son post these pictures, now you know why I still use carbs.
I think he did a great job with his first fabrication of an intake and exhaust system. As you can see the exhaust is divided to help spool, seems to work good. And the intake is divided between 3 & 4 to cancel the overlap signal of those two cylinders. (Like IGOR) Never had an engine that ran so smooth as this one.
A/F seems good on all cyl.

The run in the video was just a short blast to see how everything was working it was way too rich so we put it on the dyno to tune the A/F got it good, a little over 900HP.

Took it back to the track hoping for a great run, half way down the track the block busted open got water on the tires, the engine would still run but no water. Building a new block now will try again next year.

Nice & thanks for posting links for the pics.

That looks like a bigger turbo or new turbo?

Specs on your turbo & is the turbine housing divided also?

What all is done to your block?
Main cap straps, doweled main caps?

Thanks again

MBHD

New turbo with divided housing, you know me I like big turbines. No back pressure in the exhaust manifold. Spools great.

No trouble with mains or caps just stock, after all with seven mains and only turning 6000 RPM works good.

The block just flexed and broke the outside of the casting.

Working on some ideas to fix the next weakest link.

\

Small turbines are for engines with poor flowing heads..

Nice work! Which turbo are you using?


Time for a mid engine mount plate ... sounds like you pulled the block apart at/near the engine mounts..

With the correct design you should be able to have the mid engine plate float between 2 fingers coming off of the frame = when its time to turn the wick up - put a hardened 1/2" pin in to lock the plate to the frame mounts.

This will move the torque transfer point to the bell housing flange - a lot more metal there than the side of the block..

Have you gotten the short block apart yet?

Did the mains move?

Mains look perfect no movement,they always look good.

The block broke in the rear area. not near the motor mounts.

I think the block is just too weak.

Have some ideas I am going to try.

Small turbines only good to plug up the exhaust.

Even the Duggan blocks break and split apart with as little as 600 HP even in N/A trim, but far less than what the cast iron block can stand. So far only the billet blocks seem to withstand repeated use with HP and RPM. Just consider a cast iron block being a grenade with the pin pulled at the current power levels that are capable with today's power adders.

at 900hp its 5X to 6X the factory rating... think you ran out of engineering over design...

Yep!

I better tell everyone to stand back the next time I let go of the trans brake button, because it will be at higher boost.

This is my "Top Fueler" make a run and take it apart.

I LOVE IT

Well, maybe it wont be that bad! Just get a couple of those old Turbo-Action transmission blankets that used to have the lead sheets in them and wrap around the engine, bystanders will be fine then.

I know they would be heavy, but is there a way to add a girdle to the block to help?

When the power level gets up to where they start to experience this problem, the block actually splits apart in a lengthwise fashion, between the cylinders where the block has the thinnest cross section. A girdle doesn't stiffen the block in that direction. Rob Harrison had even tried to run all thread through the block between each cylinder in a side to side pattern to try to add strength to keep his blocks from splitting but it didn't work. Once he started running a billet block that solved the problem, along with other design changes made to the block to help combat this problem.

... time to cast a severe duty block...

Hmm. I wonder at what point I may run into this issue on the OHC Pontiac block.....

I think your cylinder head is going to keep you from having to worry about that.

I've already got a pattern for the 4 cylinder blocks, I guess I could add two more cylinders to it.

These blocks are weak......I guess we didn't get the memo

Rob Harrison was splitting then down the middle with a N/A combo, so your about 200 HP past due! Tick...tick...tick

CNC,
With the Deppe patterns of a four cly. I would think you could make a six fairly easy, If you ever think about doing this please get in touch with me first, I'm thinking of a solid block no water to make it easy.

Harry, would you think the standard 292 TD deck height would be what you would want or something more like the Duggan deck height. I agree, solid is a definate posibility.

Was looking online at the place that makes "IGOR" block....

They CNC'ed a billet block out of billet 4140 steel and heat treated it ! for a cummins tractor pull engine yikes how much boost would that handle!

LSM makes some nice stuff. I bet it can handle anything you throw at it.

Yes, I am checking on LSM this Dec. at the PRI show. But I'm thinking lots of $$$$.

I was talking to Steve@LSM a few years ago about an unrelated matter and he mentioned that the IGOR block was about $10K-$12K back then, so im sure with the inflation costs, it would be more than that now. Plus that block design and style is proprietary, so you would have to create your own blueprint and design or pay them to do it and that would be even more money on top of that.

CNC, mid height would be best I think.

CNC, mid height would be best I think.

Nice setup Harry.

Now if you can get it all hooked up at the track?

The mid height deck would allow shorter CH pistons and shorter rods. Getting over a 4" bore would be nice too.

I think the Kirby head flows pretty good for only having a 3.875" bore.
320CFM @ .600" lift. Street port job.

MBHD

Harry,
what was the previous best time you had ran?
Best w/Siamese port & best w/Brazillian 12 port head.

Specs on your turbo? If you don't mind?

Thanks

MBHD

T.T.T!

MBHD

I think its all been posted before. Could be wrong though.

Sorry, I have not posted sooner.

Best run with siamese bump port 10.42
best run with stock head with divided ports 9.98
Best run with Brazilian divided head 9.61
Best run with Kirby- Sissell head yet to be determined

The turbo is my design and is proprietary info. right now, I have wanted to try a turbo like this for some time.

Very nice & thanks for posting.

Do you have anymore videos of any runs?


MBHD

Nice video,Nice setup .If you have a Turbocharger aspects need help then you can contact me, I have a friend who is Turbocharger manufacturer

Turbo-6.
If you can recall the boost levels you were running w/the different head combos?

Thx
MBHD

Will look at my records and get back.

Will look at my records and get back.

Will look at my records and get back.

Will look at my records and get back.

With bump port 30 psi all others 35 psi new Kirby-Sissell will be 35+.

With bump port 30 psi all others 35 psi new Kirby-Sissell will be 35+.

Now I know why I still use carbs !!!

Thanks Turbo-6
I had thought you needed to run 10 psi more with the Brazilian 12 port to make the same power as the Siamese port head?

Or was it the divided Siamese head needed 10 more PSI to make the same power as compared to an undivided head?
I believe it was the last question I posted is correct.

MBHD

Do you need vendor info for a engine diaper

Mighty6,

don't be afraid to turn up the boost.

You have the better stronger block to start off with. So your front drivers side of the block should not come apart like it did on Douglas' Opala

I think your turbo is supposed to be more efficient running 25 + PSI, no?

I know your rods are the only thing holding your engine back, just saying, crank that bad boy up when your ready.

MBHD

There is no "better" block at this level of power other than a billet one!

[quote=CNC-Dude #5585

There is no "better" block at this level of power other than a billet one! [/quote]

Just not sure what is the limit of a cast iron 292 block is?

Mighty 6's 292 does not have doweled main caps or main straps, or main girdle, or billet main caps.

MBHD

Others have split blocks right down the center between the cylinders with a lot less HP and N/A, so he is probably 200 HP past what is safe and is living on borrowed time. When an engine failure like this occurs it is violent, and people get hurt, not usually the ones driving the car either.

Turbocharging an engine is a little bit easier on engine components in general.
But when the tune is off on a turbocharged engine, the pistons go away fast.

From what I hear, Guys in Brazil are running 1000 HP on 250 blocks, & those are weaker blocks.

I have not heard what a turbocharged 292 block can handle.
Only heard of 250 turbocharged blocks failing after 1000 & up HP range.

Douglas' 250 block failed before the finish line & ran a 8.2 @ 165 MPH Don't recall the HP his engine was making @ that time.

The last record ET for that 250 class was 7.8 seconds, that was done a few years ago, maybe there is a newer record?

MBHD

The 250 blocks are probably stronger because they are more rigid and shorter, making them less likely to flex, plus having 3/4" less stroke reduces a lot of block stress. High boosted engines are much more abusive to components than you think, they have much more cylinder pressure than you can ever make with a N/A engine, and that is what tries to split the blocks apart. These engines are weak between the cylinder because of a relatively large bore and close bore spacing, so there isn't much meat between them in the front to back relationship, plus having a thin deck doesn't give them much strength. Harry's 292 is a good example of that.
The HP potential obtainable today exceeds what a stock block can handle, there have been many block failures to show that is a fact. You wouldn't use a 1966 Chrysler Hemi block to build a 8000 HP Top Fuel motor. The warning signs are waving all around, luckily no one has gotten hurt yet, but keep throwing the gas on the fire and someone will.

Mighty6,Do you know who sell OE Number turbocharger 171077 GM-1 ，Tell me the website, I went to consult.

MIGHTY6,Do you know who sell OE Number turbocharger 171077 GM-1.Tell me the website, I went to consult

MIGHTY6,Do you know who sell OE Number turbocharger 171077 GM-1.Tell me the website, I went to consult

To run a 7.8 ET @ 2500 lbs you need 1042 HP this is what Douglas's car weighed

Thanks for that Harry.

Not saying that is what he ran,, but,, IIRC,, he did say it was on a 7.8- 8.0 ET pass when the engine failed.

MBHD

He needs to call LSM for his next block. He might not be so luck the next time it happens.

Douglas' next engine is/was supposed to be N/A, 292. Not sure the status of if it ever happened.
Last I heard it was supposed to be a 700 HP N/A engine.

Need to contact him or he might chime in here.

MBHD

You remind me of a guy on this forum "LEELITES" that would always come on here selling that Joe Deppe propaganda. That
was about 15yrs ago.

What was the Joe Deppe propaganda he was trying to sell.

I guessing your referring to Rob Harrison on splitting blocks. I don't know him nor never talked to him but he's performance goals are way different than ours. I think he was using one of them junky Deppe blocks. We have heard of LSM and also heard the company went down hill when the son took over the business. My brother has Haas machining center that can handle a block no problem. Why, he's figures out a system to blocks together at 1000 whp. Why do we need to spend $20,000 on a block when the crank might be the weakest link? O-hhh hell lets put a $5,000 crank with a jesal drive, reverse driven cam too bam $40k!
We've torn up more stuff n/a and n2o making way less power than this boosted combination. One of the keys is in the tune up and is solid. If we blew it up next month we would build another one just like it. And yes our motor has a crack in it just like Harrys did. We've been running it for 3 years that way so it looks like the retention device works.

Thank you for your concern

I think the guy that bought douglas car fixed the head and putting it back together but I could be wrong.

Well, that's all it is!. And, please don't ever compare anyone to "LeeLites", those are fighting words in most English speaking countries.(LOL) The envelop is definately being pushed with stock blocks and cranks and nobody likes to see others get hurt when things go bad. Just stay safe and race smart.

Douglas had told me he sold the Yellow Opala as just a rolling chassis, no engine, no head.

Douglas said to me he kept the 12 port Kirby head & had it welded back together & he had sent me some pics of the repair, also pics of the broken head. Crack right in the middle of the head. His engine failure was very violent.

He was going to try & put it onto another vehicle, but who knows what happened?

MBHD

[quote=MIGHTY6
We've torn up more stuff n/a and n2o making way less power than this boosted combination. One of the keys is in the tune up and is solid. If we blew it up next month we would build another one just like it. And yes our motor has a crack in it just like Harrys did. We've been running it for 3 years that way so it looks like the retention device works.

Thank you for your concern [/quote]

That is the statement I had posted earlier. Running a turbocharged engine is a bit easier on engine parts.

Part of the reason I suggested for you guys to try out turbocharging because of all the engine failures, hard launches w/N2O, breaks parts, & looking back @ your old vids of nitrous launches all looked to be wild rides.

Mighty 6,

where exactly is your engine cracked?

Also, what is this retention device?

MBHD

Indeed . . . Lee is an infamous part of inliner's BB nostalgia . . . and there was nothing like spectating when Jack Halton would step in as moderator and take "mr. leelites" to the woodshed for posting unsubstantiated bombast . . . Back then we could have used a separate forum just for Lee - it could have been called "Flow Bench Racing" . . .

Its a shame too, Lee is an OK guy to talk to on the phone, but when the topic moves to car stuff, he quickly reminds you of the guy at a party that has a few drinks and turns into the ass no one wants to be around.

Gentlemen-

Let's keep this forum as a vehicle to share information and ideas.

"Leelights " is past history, let's let it lie.

Thank you.

Will Willis

He may be history but he posted the best side by side photos and casting numbers of all the 230,250,292 cranks on this board that I have seen the 10 years I have been on it.I call that sharing infomation.... That said i did get tired of the pissing matches about who's lumps were best. Truth being there isn't a 100th. on the clock differents between the lot. Now my rant is over I DEFER to the guys on this thread who are running the numbers. They are the ones with the time cards.

Merry Christmas back atcha.

Although I think I'll pass on the other 3 posts.

Let's focus on Turbo-6 build. Or 400 CFM 12 port head.

MBHD

Turbo-6 , So what is the latest with this new combo?

MBHD

Hank, Been beating a dead horse with my new set up, changed the converter and went from a 9.45 to 8.84 at 150+ MPH.

Have a high speed shake I have to fix and install a parachute now.

But happy with the results of an old school blow through carb.

Harry,

That is awesome & congrats BTW! About your ET & MPH.

What boost pressure did you run with that ET?

MBHD

30 PSI

Welcome to the 8's.

We had a high speed shake for the longest time and it drove us crazy trying to find it. It ended up being those early drag lite wheels.
Craig made a fixture so when we balanced them it simulated them being on the truck. We run Champion Bead locks now with "0" issues.
Take a look at that.

So your problem was on the REAR wheels! that's good to know .

With the new set up I changed the motor angle, just changed it back maybe this will fix the problem. If not, will look in to the wheels for sure, what was the fixture for and how did it work?

Thanks
Harry

Harry-
If you didn't change your pinion angle, that could give you a vibration.
Will

Harry,

Are you running meth injection to keep detonation under control?

I got a warning from a TAD engine builder to watch out - once meth starts to knock it needs lots of timing pulled out to stop it.
its like close to 30* retard to get it to stop.

They busted a lot of parts learning this.

I use a J&S safegaurd unit to control the timing.

I use methanol injection & the timing removed when it hears detonation, it is not that much, maybe 6 degrees removed , then once it stops it brings the timing right back up.
Never seen it close to 30 degrees of retard to have to stop the detonation.

When I turn up the boost I will sometimes set the J&S so that it will remove timing from all cylinders (safer mode) instead of individually removing timing.

The J&S set-up has saved my cast piston engine more than a few times. 25-26 PSi on crap 91 octane fuel.

MBHD

Will, now you tell me, just kidding.

I lowered the front of the engine to get hood clearance and did not think about the angle. It's back as it was at the start.

efi-diy

I run Q16 gas and have an intercooler, have not had any problems with my tune up.

EGT'S all the same and O2's good. The intake and exhaust my son made works great. the boost pressure is less than turbine and spools great.

So the turbine pressure is more than 30 PSI?
Or is it the other way around?
How much turbine back pressure does it have 20 PSI?

MBHD

Sorry I said that backwards. At 30 psi boost the turbine is 25 psi. Which is the way it should be to be correct.

It bolt's onto the wheel similar to bolting it onto the axle.
It keeps both sides of the rim tight as well so that spacer doesn't flop around in the center.
now you can put into a wheel balance machine and get an accurate balance.

I see good idea, I now run Halibrands it's a solid wheel.

I agree with your usage of a large hot side AR - the VE is improved.

What are you going to do if you split another block?

Don't talk about that, guess I will crash the car again, I think my fix will work or else try Mighty 6's extra head bolts.