I know it's easy to put a Muncie or Saginaw 4 speed behind a 230 or 250, but does anyone know if they ever came from the factory that way? I'm mostly interested in the 1966 to 1972 time frame, Camaros, Chevelles, and Novas. I'm looking for something good enough to convince the NHRA to allow me to run a 4 speed behind a 230(first choice) or 250.

i have looked thru my books and asked questions on other sites. it was not a standard option, but could have been installed by a dealer. i have a 1966 chevrolet dealer album (very cool reading) it only shows a powerglide, 3 speed stick or 3 speed with overdrive as options.

i would suggest using a powerglide with a larger stall. it will be easier on the drivetrain and will be very consistant. tom

I don't know about the Chevelles and Camaros, but I know that in the Nova series, if the car had a six cylinder engine in it, you could NOT get a 4-speed manual trans from the factory. All Novas with sixes were limited to 3-speed manual transmissions or Powerglide automatics. Chevelles were probably the same. If a 4-speed was available behind a six, I'm guessing that it would have been in the Camaros, but I don't really know. Anybody else out there able to shed some light on this?

Looking at my Hollander under the engine codes section, the only six with a 4spd that I see is for the '67-69 Camaro.

here is a link to a chevelle website that i asked this same question.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249477

Can you imagine how different the '53 Corvette would have been with a four speed? Dream car status '53 'vette, 261, four speed, Dana 44 Limited slip.

Thanks for the link - that was real helpful!

I guess maybe I should ask - just how much difference would a 4 speed make compared to a 3 speed? I'm talking for a drag race only car - and yes, Tom, I may well end up going with a Powerglide. But part of the fun in racing is shifting!

A close ratio 4 speed, with the right rear end gears, will keep you in your power band longer which will get you there quicker, if you do your part. Or, you can depend on some old slush box!

stick shifts will break amazingly easy when launched at high rpm. in fact the whole drivetrain suffers. tom

I never had a trans break on launch with a 6 cyl. but broke many on power shifting from 1st to 2nd. I knew of a 1953 Corvette with a 261 and Saginaw 4 speed, it ran close to 100 MPH in the quarter mile.

I've used a Ford toploader tranny quite successfully in a 496 BBC Camaro. Try to find one from a Big Block Mustang or Torino, they have a larger diameter input shaft, and they have a 2.78 first gear ratio. Lakewood makes an adapter pilot bushing for it to use in a Chevy crankshaft, and drilling a blowproof bellhousing to the Ford tranny pattern is fairly easy. My car weighed close to 3600 lbs. and had 10" slicks on it, and I usually lauched the car between 4500-5000 RPM, and only broke it once in 4 yrs(and that was from tire shake in first gear). The gears in them are so much thicker and stronger than in any Muncie or Borg-Warner. The cases are cast iron and don't flex or distort like the aluminum cases of the Chevy trannies as well. Might be a good alternative for you. Many other stick cars use the Jericho transmission, but they are pricey. You can use a Doug Nash Competition 5 spd in Super Stock and was legal, you just have to use a special shifter made by Long, that skips either 3rd or 4th gear,so you still only have use of (4)forward gears, technically having a 4 speed. At one time it was also allowed in the NHRA Stock class, that too could be an option.

Gm did run the TH200R4 behind the Buick grand national Turbo motors with good success.

Suggest that if the target vehicle is heavy say over 4500# then a 700R4 might be better at getting the vehicle rolling.

The main issue with the 700R4 is getting the throttle cable pressure set correctly - get it wrong and it turns into a stinking pile of burnt clutches and fluid.

In some ways the 4L60E is better in this regard. Transgo offers a vacuum modulator that replaces the computer controller line pressure solenoid. Shifting the forward gears can be done using 2 toggle switches - manual shift automatic. I've been running my own 4L60E like this for a year and its fine.

I have ran a M20 & M21 behind my 250 and I leave the line no less then 5000.Only Broke the 29 splined axles.And I have run both these same tranny's behind a BB 396/(bored to a 427)Anyway
my 64SS chevyII with a 250 has 15x15.5x29s & 5:13 gears under it An NO less then 5000rpm Off the line. Watch the video's and see for yourself.

I ran a Saginaw 4-speed behind a decent street 292 in a 66 Chevy II weighing about 3300lbs. It ran 14.5s here at 2700 feet on drag radials leaving at ~3000 rpm and never had a trans problem. Did need to go to better axle shafts however....

Pretty good.

Just curious,why is the Nova heavy?
My friends 66 Nova 350,cast iron heads,aluminum intake,400 SB weighed 2800 Lbs,one fiberglass fender & hood,all else steel & glass,no Lexan,stock suspension & Weld wheels. TH350 auto w/10" converter.

How much does a 292 weigh?
A 230-250 inline is about 100 LBS lighter than a cast iron std SBC.

The 3300 included my fat rear and a 292 weighs more like a big block. It was all steel, all original glass, with a full interior and even with the spare and jack in the trunk. I weighed at Denver during the 2000 Inliner Nationals.

Bruce,
not trying to figure out how much you weigh,but how much does the Nova weigh w/out you in it with the 292?


MBHD

The car itself weighed around 3100. It also had about 15 gal of gas in it at the time

My 64SS weighed in at 3000 Tubed all steel body & Glass, 8point roll bar,& 16 gallons of fuel.& that was with me at 170-175 at the time.

I remember reading somewhere that the 62-65 Nova's were 100 lbs lighter than a 66-67 Nova's.


MBHD

Yes they are 68 on up were right around 3200 with a BB. My 69 SS
with a 396 I think was 3230.

nova weights:
http://www.novaresource.org/weights.htm

I have a chart here from Hot Rod Oct 1977.

It lists a 194-230-250 @ 410 lbs
and the SBC @ 575

I was told to split the difference between the two to get a 'guesstimate' of the 292 weight.

I'd like to post the chart here, but wondering about copyright issues ???

I have never seem a published weight on a complete 292. When we put one in the 66 to replace the 194, it bottomed out the stock springs which were in good shape. Ended up with a set of a/c equiped sbc springs to get the ride height back.

So with that info,would it be safe to say a 292 weighs about the same as a SBC ?


MBHD

I put a saginaw 4spd behind my 194 in my 66 chevy 2. It worked great with the 3.27 first gear it got out of the hole real nice and had a good gear spread that helped the little motor alot. It drove like a different car really helped. Super easy to install to. just had to cut the hole in the tunnel for the shifter. Watch your shifter choice so it doesnt interfear with your speedo cable.

Depends on the driver. If you're sitting there with no pre-load on the clutch you're gonna smoke some parts. Preload the clutch a bit with a staging break and it works fine for most folks. just gotta get the slop out of the drivetrain before you launch.

I made about 200 passes last year on manual transmission cars with some launches close to 8200rpm. high 10's 135mph.

takes practice though to get a proper pre-load.

Depends on the driver. If you're sitting there with no pre-load on the clutch you're gonna smoke some parts. Preload the clutch a bit with a staging break and it works fine for most folks. just gotta get the slop out of the drivetrain before you launch.

I made about 200 passes last year on manual transmission cars with some launches close to 8200rpm. high 10's 135mph.
We need pics of this car.

takes practice though to get a proper pre-load. [/quote]

It ain't an inliner... well, now that think about it, it is an inliner... I'll post if you like, but I can tell you this. I posted pics of the car on the HAMB, and was nearly SHOT for such sacrilege (and I was asked to post them). Car makes 613whp on 122ci

Post'em, We're open minded here! Some of those guys at the "H" site are rough! (real cyber tough guys) My Dell will kick your MAC's @$$!

X2 post it.
I like to see some pics. Or refer to video link If possible.

MBHD

I must have missed that thread over there.

2 liter what?

Was it too 'new fangled' (ie post 62) or was it turbo'ed (the HAMB has 'turbo turrets' )?

Now, mind you, for the record, I am a "car guy". Domestic, lowrider, import, ratrod, lifted trucks, streetrods, I love 'em all. I'm in the middle of a few vintage dragster builds right now too. I'm mostly here to learn about the 235 engines and what Needs to be done for my vintage digger projects.

It's the white car,
http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=maltapairuj4.jpg

Here's a vid, It's a poor pass, but you get the idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DsKCgLMfOA&feature=related

Lot of improvements since last season, and should be 400 pounds lighter and another 50-60hp too. Perhaps high 9's are in it's future...we'll see talk is cheap...

Guys have been running 9's normally aspirated w/there Honda cars for a while.

Looks like a wild car to drive though, thanks for the links,also can't see any times.



MBHD

Way quicker than anything I've got. I see why they had problems on the H.A.M.B.! It probably sparked another "Tradition Debate". Not my cupa' tea, but I wish I had my Morris Wagon back!

Thank you, I definetly didn't see that over there (woulda' remembered that).

Strangely enough, it was only posted in the "introduce yourself thread". Where they want you to talk about yourself and the stuff in your garage... It was a fiasco... rough crew over there.

I recognize your ID from a few posts in the HA/GR threads.

Yep, that's me.

Guess I never saw your intro.

BUt around town and up and down the local canyons they are so much more fun to drive!

I was talking about Cars with Manual Transmissions.

Ooops...I forgot...While we are on this subject has anyone had any luck setting up a Hydraulic T/O bearing with their MANUAL TRANSMISSION instead of the old Z-Bar mechanical t/o ????

Not the throw out bearing that goes inside the belhousing around the input shaft.

I have set up a slave cylinder on the outside of the trans to use the orriginal throw out arm though, and once you get it working it's great (some adjustment required as it wasn't a factory setup).

My only concern with the hydraulic T/O is if there is a problem with it, you have to pull the trans to do much of anything about it. That and with the extra feature (the hydraulic cylinder) you have doubled the things that can go wrong with it.

Murphy is in full effect on all my vehicles.