In an effort to organize stuff I'm planning a new project. It will hopefully turn 4 piles of my "collection" into one good truck. Pile#1:complete '89 GMC 2500 305 donor pick-up,Pile #2:a good running stock 292,Pile#3 complete turbo set up from an '80 Pontiac 301,Pile#4 a '68 Chevy C 30 flatbed. The good truck will be the '68! The '89 will donate it's TBI,ECM,harness,700R4,fuel tank,fuel pump,tranny mount and cross member,EFI sensors. I plan to use a Megasquirt to regulate the EFI. I hope efi-dyi can tell me how to plug it into my harness. All three engines being nearly the same size305,301,292 it should be dooable,right? What cam would be best? What head work will help? I'll be hauling and pulling loads,it's a truck. I'm not new to 6's or this board but I've been on the information dirt road for seven years. Oh,right it's draw through. Why,because I have it.

"All three engines being nearly the same size305,301,292 it should be dooable,right?"

Yep its quite easy. Get a HEI dist. for the ignition this way you can control the timing as well as the fuel.

I suggest getting the truck running with the stock 292 first then convert to EFI ( install the EFI tank, pump, and fuel lines and use a holley bypass regulator to feed the stock carb) then add the turbo. A little planing will ease the upgrades. This way you can test and sort out issues as you go. The only kink with this approach is the TV cable for the 700R4. When you get closer to installing the harness let me know and we work through it.

Thanks, thats the route I am hoping to take. There is a local guy here who is great with turbos and has said he will help. I am presently doing my Megasquirt homework and going back through these pages and reading your past posts. Your 292-tbi project is just the kind of stuff I've been looking for! I have another fried here deep into a 4200/'50 Chevy pick-up project. I'm printing that info out for him. Thanks again!

One item you will need once you add the turbo is a really good ignition system - so I suggest you start looking for an aftermarket ignition box (crane, msd etc...) and a set of MSD plug wires a bit spendy but worthwhile. This also makes controlling the timing with MS easier.

Are you talking about the MSD with boost retard? We did that on my son's supercharged Studebaker. A good unit. I have a new/rebuilt HEI that I planed to use. I measured the output of the turbo today. It is 2". The stock intake manifold carb port is 1 7/8'. If I cut the 1/8' to the out board side the inner stud would aline the unit perfectly. Then by milling the surface the remaining 2 holes would easily fit on the mounting surface using the stock Pontiac gasket. The three bolt 292 exhaust manifold flange and the turbo in flange apear to be the same. A simple "U" bend could connect them, There's a start. Thanks , I don't mean to ramble. As far as spendy goes, the piles are already here. The rest is like Apollo 13, make this fit that using this. Hot rodders in space!

"Are you talking about the MSD with boost retard?"

No, msd 6A or equivelent in a crane,mallory or other aftermarket ignition box. By controlling the timing with MS as the boost comes on you program less timing for that point in the timing map (manifold pressure vs rpm).

OK, That's added to the list. I'll start looking for one. Do you think it would be easier to start out using a turbo 400 and switch to the 700R4 when I go to the TBI and '89 harness/MS? Baby steps.

another option for the dizzy is a 81 chevy pickup with calif emmisions. that dist used electronic spark control and will fit perfectly with the MS system. i use one on mine. got mine from O Rielly's Auto parts. had it new and in 2 days. tom

Tom, those are great pics! I'm not sure what my distributer is, I think '87, but I'll get the one you suggest to be sure. Thanks for the help, I need it!

-Transmission - I'd go with th OD reight away, save a few $$ on driveshaft mod's.

- If your going to use the '81 distributor, one item that will make your wiring easier is to get a GM TBI to MS adapter board - this allows a direct plug in to the GM harness one on side and direct into MS on the other side. Get hold of Jerry at DIY Autotune for this board and if he doesn't want to help please let me know.

I went to the DIY Autotune site and there is a lot to read there too. I have a lot of homework to do before I'll even know what questions to ask. Thanks for guiding me to these places. Is it just to get me out of here?

Once you get over the inital fright, it will slowly come together and then the questions will come. Once you get the engine fired the first time on efi and see how easy it is to tune it may well be the last time you take a screw driver out of the tool box to set the idle mixture...

At the last local swap meet I sold off my last bin of holley carb parts and I think my Qjet bin will be going soon except for 1 or 2 carb's.

http://www.inliners.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003857

Sorry for the cross/repeat posting but its relevant to this swap.

Good point - this should be plug and play with the later model TBI harness. If the inline timing reference connector is unpluged then the dist will fire by itself with no advance. Set base timing for say 10 deg BTDC.

efi-dyi,Thanks for this! This is exactly what I need to really get this going. What is special about the '81 pick-up Calif. dist? The old Carquest book I have doesn't show it as such. Thanks again,now I can order the MS stuff.

Ask Tom - this dist. never came to Canada so it N/A here

tlowe I.I.#1716
Active BB Member
Member # 1326

Member Rated:
5 Icon 1 posted 03 November, 2007 05:30 AM Profile for tlowe I.I.#1716 Email tlowe I.I.#1716 Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote another option for the dizzy is a 81 chevy pickup with calif emmisions. that dist used electronic spark control and will fit perfectly with the MS system. i use one on mine. got mine from O Rielly's Auto parts. had it new and in 2 days. tom

--------------------
65 ELCO turbo 292 EFI/Intercooled/700R4/3.55 gears.Inliners Member 1716.

here are some pic's http://profile.imageshack.us/user/tlowe/

I found a Holley TBI adapter and am dealing on a MSD 6AL. I'd feel better with the rev limiter. I'm not sure about the wideband O2 kit. The MSD,Holley,or Edlebrock books don't seem to designate their O2 sensors as wideband.Edlebrock calls one,#36013 a narrowband. MSD#2330 heated,Edlbrock#3591,And Holley#43-106 & #534-27. Am I close?

efi-dyi, OK, I went back to the DYI site. I found the wideband kits. Do I need the controller or just the o2 sensor? I couldn't find the GM TBI adapter,only the Ford. The MS 3.00 main board is what they show as a v3 board? The MS II processor plugs into that? The MS stim is? And this assembly will go back into the GM ECM case with a new hole for the computer conecter? What do you charge for baby-sitting?

Beater - the adapter boards out for manufacture now - wait 2 weeks and DIY will have it...

You need the whole wideband kit that includes a sensor.

The MS 3.00 main board is what they show as a v3 board? -->> YES The MS II processor plugs into that? >>> YES

The MS stim is? Is for bench testing the MS controller and installing new software. Its a REAL handy item to have in case you have any doughts if things are working.

And this assembly will go back into the GM ECM case with a new hole for the computer conecter? YEP

What do you charge for baby-sitting? not much..

The MS software has a rev limiter built in - no need to spend extra $$$ on a 6al ..

What do you charge for baby-sitting? Email - some pix of the running instal.
Phone - hmmm?
On-site - return airfare + a guest room - chow would be nice too....

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/innov...a438d192dabcecd

Thanks again. That helps a lot! I just finished reading the MS manual for putting the V3.0 board thgether. I hope it makes more sense when I actually sit down with the parts,manual,and solder.
I am giong to the wreckers and pick up an ECM and enough harness for patching. That way I can leave the '89 running for a while longer while I put the MS together. Tanks for the tip on the MSD 6a. I want to take pics of this whole thing.
Man that Wideband kit $$$$! So much for the $500 EFI conversion. The original idea was combine four piles. Now I have five. Oh well I'm hooked! This looks like fun.

The wideband is worth the $$$$ - you could get the lower cost LC1 for $199 but the A/F ratio gage is just so cool and useful too.....

With the wideband you set up the desired A/F ratio at each of the table vertexs and then drive while data logging. Take the data log run it through megalogviewer optimization s/w (runs on the laptop) it read the log file and adjusts the VE table for you. You then load the new VE table and go for another drive while logging and repeat the process 2 or 3 times and poof you have a good base tune up.

That sounds cool,By the time I get back from Calgary I should have it dialed in! I guess I'll need another laptop,this one is a MacBook and I doubt it will run the MS program. Think I'll turn the pictures into a Movie, "MR. Beater Builds a Dream Truck"

Well Wendover is a good 2 day drive from here...

efi-diy Gosh,Wendover wrecks most of a day from here. When we get deeper into this project and you're on your way to or from Wendover I have a Tahoe deal to offer. No $$$ involved.

Hey I know were Dayton is, and I love Tahoe. Are all those old fire engines still there. I've got a spare laptop too. :rolleyes:

Larry

Larry, The fire trucks belonged to Bill Anderson of Pondarosa Ranch fame. He's sold most of the stuff there. Much of it came from the Harrah's collection. You would not beleave what used to be inside that building! Ford flathead and Gmc stuff out the ..... About the only truck left there is my old '40 International, but I've got the '26 chevy roadster body that sat out front. So whats the laptop?

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirtii-746747-adapter-p-187.html

Diyautotune has the adapter boards up..

I've been looking and had not seen them yet even after your message. I've got my list and am putting stuff in pile #5. I have also located a '91 4x4 1 ton rolling chassis. (dirt cheap) Frame,axles tranny/transfer, etc. Everything but the engine and body. So it'll be 4x4 by & by. When I remove the wire harness should I include everything to the gauges? Would it work to just use the '89 instrument panel and gauges? Will the check engine light serve any purpose in the MS system? Thanks,BOTP

OK, pile #6 added '89-'90 heavy 3/4 ton Suburban 4x4, everything but the big block. Pretty much sub this for original pile #1. I'll build this as a roller and switch the '68 cab and bed over. Much easier in the long run. Easier to put the turboed injected 292 in complete chassis that already has tank, lines, tranny,transfer,drive lines,axles ....... Different drive train same project. If I find a TBI and wire harness I can leave the '89 in tact and sell it to finance the rest. Will also end up with a '68 roller 350,turbo400,complte chassis. I don't think I'm fulfilling my original goal of consolidating 4 piles of cr.. into one useable vehicle. Oh well the government will be here to help soon!

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/adapter-boards-c-49.html?osCsid=3fb80338bd4df9ab847b701230c87fd6

When I remove the wire harness should I include everything to the gauges? Would it work to just use the '89 instrument panel and gauges? Will the check engine light serve any purpose in the MS system? Thanks,BOTP

Check engine light - not used.

As for the rest of your question - hmm you would need to check the wiring diagrams for both vehicles. I don't have the info.

The GM adapter sohws up as a just a circut board with a list of components needed to assemble it. Do you know the cost of the parts?

Less than $20 not including the junk ecm.

Goto http://digikey.com/ and plug in the part numbers to get an exact price.

The weather is better and I can work in the shop. I started the mock up on my injected,turboed 292. I got the intake back from the machine shop and have the manifolds bolted to the block. The turbo unit is bolted on. I'm now working on brackets/mounts, oil and water lines, exhaust, etc. I haven't ordered the MS yet but will soon. I have decided to leave the cab & bed on the '68 frame. It will be easier for me to switch desirable parts from the 4X4 '90 Suburban rather than put the '68 cab on the '90 frame. I'll try to post some pictures soon. I still have lots of questions. I'm rereading Leo's and Corkey Bell's books and lots of web pages.

Water heat for the Firebird turbo plenum, can I take water from thermostat housing below the thermostat and return it to the 1/2" outlet on the head between #1 & #2 cylinders? All of my heads don't have that hole but two do. Also oil line to turbo, if I run a 1/4" line from the oil pressure port on the passenger side and use a fitting in that line for the pressure sender will that rob oil pressure from the bottom end? And last for today,Will I get a good enough temp reading if I put the sender in the water jacket of the plenum, or should it be nearer to the thermostat? Thanks!

beater,
if you take water from below therm and you want it to flow back to head, it won't flow. same pressure both sides. maybe find a t-stat housing that has a fittint in it above stat. use that to return to.
the oil to the turbo you have mentioned is a good one. you have no other choices. it will not rob much oil. be sure to support the line so as to not vibrate and cause a failure.
the temp sender in the intake will be cooler than the engine water temp. put it in the head hole between #1 and 2.
tom

Thanks Tom, I just came in from the shop and have two more questions. I'm using a turbo from an '80 Firebird. Can I do away with the EGR? Where can I get a replacement waste gate actuator?

i see actuators on ebay all the time. i run a external wastegate. it is more compact to run the internal though. tom

I saw one there today that was adjustable from 4 psi. I'm thinking that would be a good choice. Thanks for your thoughts and time. Tom

Here is a link to some pictures of this project. It should go faster now.

http://picasaweb.google.com/sixpics/InjectedTurboed292?authkey=1XxF7v37Wbw#

Looks Nice .

I finally ordered the rest of the Megasquirt stuff today. We'll see if I can follow directions. My wife has doubts base on 42 years of observation!

Belated xmas present?...

Did you order the kit or a pre-assembled board?

Yes, Santa missed me. I ordered the kit. Diy had them listed on eBay and I had a 10% off coupon so it was time. I'm looking forward to putting it together and getting that project done.

This is a cool project. Do yo have any pics of the machine work done to the intake?

Tom,

Remember to test your MS out on the '89 before trying it on something new.. it'll allow you test out your tuning skills.. dig out the detailed post/message I sent a while back on this subject.

Once you think you have your settings right for the MS controller email the file and I'll load and review it here.

Also warm up the '89 motor on the GM ecm so you don't have to mess with the choke settings on the MS for your first try.. easier.

Marc, Is that the post in the "Re: TBI on Chev 250 " thread? The link to that from this thread doesn't work from here any more. It just goes to the forum home page, but I printed it any way. I sent that thread back to the top yesterday. I'm still a long way from having a working MS. I'm still driving the '68 with the 350 in it. I want the '89 trans behind the 292 so I may have to do the initial tune for the 292 on a stand. But at any rate I will play with the '89 while it is unmolested and it is a plug and play situation. I may just take my MS and laptop to a parking lot somewhere and look for a unlocked GM! I'm slow but closer than a year ago and now I have 6 piles! Thanks, Tom

I thought you said you were going to stop counting @ 4.

No, That would be like saying I would stop whining, and you all know that is not going to happen! 7 piles!!!

Seven, okayyy, whadja get?

Wellll, There are the original 4 piles, the '90 Burb I got for parts, The pile of electronics and tools to hook it up, and the growing pile of $#!> I'm getting for having all of this in the yard!

Ah yes, the grass always grows greeener under the manure pile.

It only took two days but I finally got the harness connector off of the GM EMC. I hardly melted anything! Now I've got to clean all the little pegs.

I got the Megasquirt Stimulator together today! It took about two hours and no cuss words! My only concern is one place where 3 connections are very close. It went well I think. I'll do the GM adapter board next. I still need parts for that. Then the main board. Stim

Just noticed someone on stovebolt.com converting a 235 to EFI....

The GM adapter board is done and I bought an Inovate wide band O2 kit. Now I have to tackle the MS main board. Little grains of sand build great beaches! Sunny Beaches, I'm making progress!!!

Ahhh, sunny beaches.

That would be a nice place to be right now.

Course from the look of the weather channel I would have to go to Austrailia, or somewhere south of the equator anyway.

Glad to hear you hvae 'postive progress'.

Tom,

Watch the small transistors near the center of the board, the pads are close together - easy to bridge with solder. Come spring you'll be ready! Pix would help.

Yep, A couple of those little three pronged black thingies don't have room for extra solder.

I got the first part of the main board done today (steps 1-23) and tested it using the stim board! It worked!! Just 57 more steps to go. Part 1

Hit a snag today, My $60 laptop doesn't have the right port to connect to my satellite service. So I can't test the MS progress I made today because I need to download some files.

Dang, so you need the 'new port' (forget it's name) instead of the PCMCIA slot you probably have?

I got this Alcam Laptop Because it has the DB9 aerial port for the MS. It seems to have one of about every connection I've ever seen except an ethernet, like a phone jack. I need the ethernet to hook up to the Web. There is an adapter for the USB port to ethernet. One thing I'm working on is that although it was designed to run Windows 98 for some reason it has 95 installed. To work on my Hughsnet it has to have at least 98 SE and for my wireless 98 ME and I'm not sure it will run the ME or if that works with the Megasquirt. They were right this is a learning process!! When I started this I knew nothing about turbos, EFI. electronic circuit boards or Windows. Now I suspect they all exist and can be used together. You can teach an old dog new tricks, you just can't depend on him to perform them on command!

Tom,

Got a buddy with a PC? Download the files and burn them to a CD then load them on your laptop.

Good idea! I'll get my son to do it. Thanks!

I just bought a Windows 98 SE upgrade kit. That should fix a lot of the problem.

Ahh yes, planned obsolescence at it's finest.

Yeah, I didn't even think of the Cat 5 socket, not too many users had access to ethernet till a few years ago. Now that's even going the way of the dodo.

Woah, I had to get my glasses I thought you wrote dildo! Do you know how long flat screen TV technology was setting there while they milked the last $$ from the projection and big screen junk? It's obsolete before we ever see it! But look at the engines we love.

Err, no, I thought this was more of a 'family oriented' site and from what I hear they are still manufacturing / selling those (therefore not obsolete or gone, like certain specie of bird ).


Yeah, we like 'obsolete' tech, but at least some of us do because of that very detail.

Others, just to be different.

Tom,

... update...???

I'm doing battle with the eBay laptop. I took it to Southern CA this weekend where my son and I cussed it in two part harmony. I think I've got a plan that will work, I'll know later today. Then I can get on with the MS!

At least I'm not the only one (with laptop troubles).

This is proving to be the biggest problem. The laptop will be fine for the MS work but getting the MS files to it is something else. It is hard to imagine that there could be a more complete collection of incompatible computer crap than what I have assembled! I do this on a Mac and it can't run the Ms files. The PC laptop is a little too slow to work on my Hughes Net internet connection and for some reason we could not install the files we downloaded and copied to a disc on my son's PC. I'm going to haul it to a friend's house and see if it will connect with his service. I did get it on line at my son's house but the wine was in control by then! The actual MS stuff is so well documented and supported that it is fun to do! When I get this figured out I'll get my cards printed. HAVE MEGASQUIRT, WILL TRAVEL!

Tom,


Long post but this is the what really makes tuning MS so much easier than a lot of the other systems out there. Once you go through it once you'll permanently toss your jet kit.

I've seen MAC wizards run windows programs on a MAC so there is a way to do it I just don't know how (not a MAC person).

Maybe time to find a slightly better laptop. Say something with Windows 2000 or Windows XP and a Pentium II processor. Locally a used laptop like this is about $120 to 150 depending how beat up it is.

Something a bit faster will allow you to run the fuel optimization programs.

This is a really cool feature of MS. Once you have the truck running and idling, you save your VE table using the save as feature. Also set the target AFR table to what you think the engine wants ( say cruise 15.0:1, idle 14.0:1, power 12.8:1) and open a datalog in megatune (this is the tuning s/w that runs on the laptop and allow you to alter the fuel mixture, AFR and spark advance tables) and drive the truck. Run the engine though as many points on the fuel table as you can - its better to have a buddy either drive or hold the laptop. You can watch where in the fuel table the engine is operating in real time

After 10 miles or so stop the datalog.

Then open the megalogviewer optimization program. In this program you open your existing VE(fuel) table, your target AFR table and your datalog that you just recorded.

Once these 3 inputs are loaded you hit the optimization button and the program goes through and automatically adjusts the VE table based on the difference in AFR target table and your data log that has real time A/F mixture feedback from your wideband O2 sensor for each point in the fuel table that you operated the engine in during the datalogging drive. Once its done - save the optimized VE (fuel)table to the laptop hard drive and then in megatune send the new VE(fuel) table into the MS.

After 3-4 repeats of the above you'll have a pretty good fuel set up for all the VE entries except full power WOT which is better to fine tune (and safer) on a chassis dyno.

This will give you something to look forward to..

I have a "Virtual Windows" program coming so I can use the Mac to load the MS files on the PC. I'd like to use the beater PC if I can. I'll know soon. If it's not up to the task I'll find one that is. At any rate I'm actually beginning to understand some of this. A year ago your post would have made no sense at all. Now I sorta know what you are telling me. Thanks for your your help. We'll get this done! Tom

Tom,

By May if you keep at it the knowledge bulb will be on full bright - keep up the good work.

My knowledge bulb has never been too bright but I've blown the tenacity fuse a couple of times. I broke down and bid on another laptop. The one I have would be fine but it won't work with my satellite internet service.

Got a new/old laptop on the way! It should fill the bill and get me going again on the MS assembly!

manimal, Sorry I missed this question before. I don't have pictures of the manifold mods but I will get some soon. I didn't have a camera when I did that. Tom

Tom,

It would be kinda cool to do a mileage measurement before and after the TBI goes on. Are you still planing on installing this on the 270 jimmy?

Teaser..

Once you get tired of the 270/292 - which ever you end up putting it on ( time to "fess up) and you have some tuning down pat. With a simple s/w update your MS will run a 4200. I can give you a tune up file - stick it in and turn the key...

All the EFI wiring moves over easy, the fuel plumbing would need a minor change - the rest is all mechanical.

Like others here I've spent years gathering 270/302 stuff for my '53 and 292 stuff for the '68. Doing the MS for the 292 turbo is a big step for me. If I were to, all of a sudden, to unload my old parts in favor of a 4200 what's left of the world economy would fold. I'm just hanging on for the rest of you. I want you to be OK!!!

Hey, Here I am on the new laptop! Now were gettin' somewhere!

Congrats, progress is a good thing.


'Specially on something that seems to be actively resisiting.

Tom,

Any progress.... did you win the laptop wars and get the files off then net?

I'm getting my butt kicked! I've spent the last two days in Hyper Terminal Hell between steps 26 &27 in the assembly guide. I can't get any feedback through the DB9. I down loaded the configuration file from the link but I can't get anything to "echo" to the screen. I spent almost an hour on the phone with my son and have tried both COM ports. I'll try some WD40 and let it sit over night! I'm about ready to swap all the piles, a couple of laptops. and a Megasquirt for Dummies book for a 350/350 with a Quadra Jet! I'll figure it out, but not tonight!

Well I have my plate full beta testing the sequencer box. You'll get it. Yelp if you get stuck.

Hey, I won a round! The MS configuration is up and working on the laptop. The MS is not.

Another round to me! The MS is working so far and we're ready for the next steps. The problem was me. Amazing what a few hours of sleep and a beer or two can do! Progress!! Steep learning curve as has been noted.

I have the board ready to test the CPU on step 40. So now I have to Down load some files and codes,and save something for use later? I can't tell which ones. The packageing and assembly instructions are so clear and detailed that you get a false sence of security. The computer aspect is confusing the s?!+ out of me. What in the #*!! is an INI? It's not in the glossery I coppied. That's it for today. Maybe tomorrow I'll wake up smarter

Is that " .ini "?

IIRC that's an initialization file (file format).

Good luck, technology's great, when it works.

I hate Windows, all the way from '95 to XP!

did you get more figured out yet? i like seeing you guy's learning. you are never too old. sorry no help with the mega squirt stuff. certainly could build it though, have lots of experience with electronics. tom

The MS is so far pretty easy. The parts are well labeled and packaged. The assembly instructions are clear although sometimes there is too much information. It's the computer part that is giving me fits. Yesterday I was "not allowed" to get into the MS files to download the file I needed. Marc emailed them to me so I got them loaded but was not able to load the code to the daughter board. Then all of a sudden everything popped and quit? When I started up again I could access the MS files! I'm JB welding the laptop back together now. That .45 makes a mess! I may be too old for this! Tom

Well it's taken a month to do an hour's work but I was able to do the clock circuit test tonight. I have installed and uninstalled Megatune so many times I can't even remember. I messed with it so much I was afraid I had corrupted the files I was working on. I was ready to quit and decided to check out the DIY site one more time and there in their software package was the ini file I couldn't get to work from the other sources. I still don't have it right yet but I was able to make it work enought for the test. Loading that file is a serious pain in the butt and that part of the instructions needs attention. I was ready to $%!# can this whole project. I still have no clear idea of how it started working or why. I don't feel that I learned anything and I'm not sure I can make it happen again! There are too many things that look too much alike.

Congrats on the progress.

Bummer about the difficulty and not knowing (for sure) why it 'fixed'.

I will get this done. I will get this done. I will.... It's not the MS. It's my lack of computer skill and a step in the manual assembly guide that is not as clear as it should be. They must be aware of the problem because in the new software package they include the new MSII ini code and say you don;t have to mess with it, but you do! If I can make this work anyone can. Stay with me boys I'll make it work. I may be too old to drive by then!

Maybe I won't. The local "expert" was not able to figure it out yesterday. He couldn't get the MS II ini2.890 in the right place either and I just broke two pins off of the daughter board. A $90 mistake!

Marc told me the pins can be replaced, so I'll order some. I'm going to reinstall every thing in the laptop to see if my problem is hidden in the software. Oh well, they say it is a learning experience and I am having lots of experiences. I must be learning something

Ah yes, the 'learn alot' phase of the learning curve. indeed

Good luck, hope it's something simple.

Yep, something simple..... me! I think I'm too simple to do this. That old Quadra Jet is looking better and better!

don't give up now. once it is all working , you will not look back. the efi/ timing control is simply beautiful when you get the hang of it.

i know how high that mountain can look when your at the bottom looking up. just don't look down. tom

Tom

Before you pull out the .45 for real, send me the !@#$!%$ laptop ...

I just bought a new display to replace the one that broke near the hinge. When it arrives I'll be able to close the laptop for shipping. I'm going to try and straighten this out then. If I still can't I will take you up on that offer. I know it is just some little thing that I'm not understanding. Thanks guys for the support. Sorry for all the whining!

I started this over two years ago! At this point I have five piles, six if you count the bullet riddled laptops, but I'm on it. I ran into an old friend yesterday who in running a Megasquirt that he and another friend assembled. It's on a SBC but no matter. He is still tuning but he recently took it to the Left Coast and was impressed. He offered to help. Like I have said here before the MS assembly is not a problem its my computer skills that are lacking. Now that I have found someone close by that can show me which key to push I can get this done! Marc, that doesn't mean I don't appreciate all of your help and offers of more help. It doesn't mean you're off the hook either! I'll still have lots of questions and at some point the settings you saved from Bonneville, if you still have them. The main problem is that the '68 has become my mode of transportation. Tom

Tom,

Even better 'squirt the '68 and save some fuel.. What I did was convert the fuel tank to have both carb and an intank EFI pump. Then ran the fuel lines up to the engine. Once I had the wiring harness installed and tested with my ohm meter (point to point and ground celarance check) I yanked the carb,mechanical fuel pump and pluged the mechanical fuel pump inlet line. Once that ws done I installed the TBI (having pre-fit the linkage previously) and fired it up.

This was if you run into an issue that can't be resolved you can revert back in 1/2 hour.

That's a good idea. The '68 has a 350 in it now that runs strong. I could get it all set up a bit at a time, put the MS on it and wring it all out before I install the 292. I'm going to use the '89 fuel tank and what lines I can. I can leave the whole '68 fuel system in tact until I am ready. I can start with the stock '89 fuel pump and all the sensors from the '89s 305. I'm not driving the '89 any more, too many things fell off. It would get the MS up sooner and make sorting out problems easier. I could also begin with my friends settings as a starting point. This may be fun again! Thanks, Tom
These are my piles and I can put them together in any order I want to!

Both codes/files are loaded. The test was successful. It took my son and me several hours and a break at the beach to get it done but it works. There needs to be some changes in the instructions here, but I can do it now! I'm ready to start soldering again. On to step #41. About 1/2 done but no more software to load. I'm typing this on the PC not the MAC. Beater

Well any progress is good... keep at it....

The Megasquirt is up and running! I still need to fit it into the original GM ECM case and then learn how to use it. I hope that next weekend I can run the old '89 GMC with it. When I get it working there I'll move the whole thing to my '68 that still has the 350 in it. That will be sort of like what we did in Bonneville way back in '08. When I'm ready to drop the 292 in all will be set up and ready. The switch from 8 to 6 will be easy. I hope that can be done this summer. Thank you efi-diy! Beater MS

Beater,
I knew you could do it! I have seen some of those pics with all the electronic components, just shook my head. My senior project involved making a PC from wires and chips and my own code. That is what your project reminds me of. Glad to see so much progress. Tom

Beater,

Well done.. once you get the engine running with it and tuned to where you can drive it then you'll know that the effort was worth while. Try and find someone who has a bit of tuning experience - it'll make it a lot easier.

Once you get it in the '68 and tuned you'll be a happy guy.

Efi...

Hey, I'm sorta happy now! It is still just the beginning but I'm into it again. There is a friend here running one on a 350. I could just get his file but I wouldn't learn anything. If it warms up a little this week I'll start swapping the tank and fuel lines from the Suburban to the '68. Then set it up like the '53 was a Bonneville, only better. Thank you for getting me this far. I've spent the afternoon reading on the DYI and MS sites. It is amazing how much of it I understand now. Still a lot to learn. Beater

Tom, I took some pics today with the empty bags around. There were a lot of them. I could put the next one together in a few hours like they say. Beater empties

Beater,

Yep you have come a long way, after you get tuned your task is to help others do what you have done. Glad its making sense now.

EFi

EFI, I want to put together something here that may help others to avoid the things that slowed me down. I took pictures along the way, kept notes, printed out manuals and the help you gave. It is really easier than I made it. One problem I had was that knowing so little about electronics, computers, and EFI I couldn't see that the instructions/manuals had MORE information than I really needed. Going back to the Megasquirt & DIY Auto Tune forums now I can see that most of the things I pestered you about were covered there. It is also reassuring to see that a lot of people had the same problems I did. I'm far from knowledgeable but the ignorance pile is smaller. Thank You! I ordered an MSD wire harness for the '89 today. It should come tomorrow. Tom

So you making any noise with this yet...?

Not yet. I crawled around in the '89 & '68 some today. It was still too cold for me to be out there long, But I am making progress. I got the MSD wire harness for the "89. It is nice and will make that hook up a snap. When I'm ready. I'm trying to learn more about how Megatune works so I don't destroy what I have done. Is there a diagram that shows which wires on the GM plug are actually connected to the MS through the adapter? I did a little show and tell at our local meeting yesterday. There is quite a bit of interest. Tom

2 weeks... and no noise made yet ...... hmmmm

Guess Tom is ignoring this thread either in shame or panic...

If we keep pushing him, something will have to get done. I think it's PANIC. Tom

I am ashamed to be succumbing to the panic. I just don't know how to make the '89 run without the ECM. I am worried about wrecking the MS. I'm trying to understand the tuning program. I put a coolant temp sensor on the '68 and the first nice day that I have off I'll pull a header and get the O2 sensor on. What if I did the ignition side on the '68 350 before I do the TBI? Set the MS up to run the spark with the MSD and the carb and then do the fuel? Beater

Tom,

I think you have someone nearby that could help you with getting it running.

The hardest step is to get to idle as you have no reference to go from.

Marc

PS: you can always send me your MSQ file and I can have a look see.

Beater,
That first step is a biggy! After that they get smaller and easier. Don't be intimidated, just take it on and conquer it.

I know I can do it. I now understand all the steps that were holding me back. Each new step stumps me for a while. I know I'm closer to the end than the beginning. It's like Marc said, I do have a guy here running an MS on a 350. I could just copy his file and start there. It has been really nuts around here for the last month. I'm starting to catch up a bit.

Tom,

Remeber to warm it up on the stock ECM before trying MS and leave the set timing connector disconnected initially. Then all that is left is fuel to set up. If it will not idle on the stock ECM with the set timing connector unpluged - give the dist. a twist so you have say 10-15* timing BTDC initial. You can set it back later.

Make sure you get RPM showing on the tuning screen.

OK, I think I'm beginning to see how the next stuff goes. I need a decent day and I'll give it a shot. Thanks for sticking around for me. Beater

Tom,

Email me your .msq tune up file I'll have a look see if there is anything odd in the basic setup that would prevent you from starting up.

Don't forget to set the injector outputs for Low Z injectors, the manual explains this quite well. I think the TBI 350 injectors are either 50 or 55 lbs/hr.

Marc

I don't even have a file yet. That is what I'm trying to figure out. I can't tell what I need to change and what should be left as defaults for now. I'm going to see if ,Dave, the local MS user can walk me through it. I think I should just put away this MAC and start using Windows for everything so I can get used to it. My fear is that I will contaminate the whole Megatune program. I guess if I do I can uninstall it and start over. Tom

A little progress. #1.Here I am using Windows. #2. I put a new battery in the '89 and brought it back up by the shop. It runs with the ECM timing signal disconnected. So now I need to build a file to use the MS. Actual use may be at hand. #3. I got the fuel tank etc. off of the '90 Suburban to go on the '68. Building a file and getting it on the MS is the last part that I have no experirnce with. Once that is done it's just car stuff, sorta'. Beater

Tom,

I agree that there is a LOT of info to sort through - since MS covers a LOT of different applications the info has to be there the problem is distilling it down to what you need. Some time I get bogged down in there too.

At least I'll point you in the right direction to get your tune up ready:

Follow the hardware and software configuration instructions for the 7 pin HEI ignition set up which is stock in the '89 -

note you DO NOT NEED THE EXTRA RELAY SHOWN if your are using the GM to MS adapter board its built into the adapter board..

GM 7 pin HEI

Idle air controller

Follow the GM IAC wiring and configure instructions

MS IAC


fuel & injector set up

You need to configure:


[list]
[*]req fuel
[*] low impedance injectors (TBI injectors are low impeadance)
[*]

The values shown in the manual for the TBI injectors work reasonably well and should allow you to get it started.

Read this section on low impedance injectors and how the PWM works Low Z and PWM

In megatune under tools set:

the sensor calibration (MAP)to be:

For the MPX4115 use 10.6 and 121.7 <<< same as a the GM TBI MAP sensor.

Set the thermistor table for both the coolant and MAT sensor to be GM - use the pull down menu to get the value populated into the tuning fields automatically.

Since your running an innovate wideband calibrate the AFR table as wideband, innovate 0V== 10.0 AFR, 5V == 20 AFR

Then before you start and after you have the MS connected to the truck under tools open calibrate TPS - with the throttle close click get current beside the closed throttle box, then mash the throttle to WOT and hit the get current beside the full trottle box WHILE you have the pedal mashed down.

Under injection control

Try these settings:

hit req fuel and enter

engine displacement 350 (or 305 ) put the actual engine size in here
number of cylinders 8
injector flow 55 (if its a 305 try 45)

AFR 14.7:1

hit OK

It may scream an error at you ignore it until the next step is complete

set control algorithm to speed density
squirt/cycle 4
injector staging alternating
four stroke
number of cylinder 8
injector type throttle body
number of injectors 2

then hit burn and then cycle the power to the MS and make sure these have stuck.

Once this and the PWM setting are right your alomost ready to start.

Thank You! That is a big help. Can I burn that to the MS using the power from the stim board or does it have to be in the truck? I'll see what the weather allows tomorrow. It supposed to snow again. Tom

Good grief, i've already had to mow my grass twice. How late in the year do you still have snow in Nevada.

I've seen it stick on the 4th of July. The weeds grow under it so it's hard to tell if you have a foot of snow or foot tall weeds. We don't mow grass here we worship it! Beater

Tom

This is when your conversion from confused guy to smart guy occurs.... the right of passage is getting it started and idling..

Yes you can configure MS plugged into the stim board IF the stim board is connected to a AC/DC power supply. NO 9V batteries.


EFI

PS its snowing here too :(=

I'm going to have a chance Sunday to sit down with a couple of local guys with Megasquirt experience and get some help. I think it will get me up and running very soon. It will be great to have someone be able to actually see where I am having problems. Beater

So... get anywhere?

Yes, It was good to be right there with someone who has done it and actually use my stim, MS, & laptop. He was able to clear up a lot of little things that were keeping me from being able to follow some of your hints. As has been my biggest problem all along there is too much information, at least more than I need at this point. It's really busy here right now. We are moving the water from one of the springs over/through a hill and I'm trying to get my runaway horses back from wild and free roaming herds of the of the far west. Maybe next Sunday I'll be ready to try and run the '89. I can at least play with it now with less fear and get in the settings in that you have sent. It was a good day and more of it makes sense. PROGRESS! Thanks, Tom

Any progress? Got my fingers crossed. Tom

I'm ready to run the '89 on the MS, just waiting for a day off with sun. Once I'm sure I can run the '89 It will be quick and easy to do the conversion on the '68. It is almost ready. I'm still reading and playing with the Mega Tune program. Beater

You make some noise with this yet...? The MS support clock is ticking down to zero unless you get this fired up soon.... Geesh I'm going to have to come down there and chain ya to your laptop....

I just tried it and was getting no connection to the truck. It ran when I put the stock ECM back. I've got stuff today I'll put the stim on it tonight or tomorrow and make sure it's OK. It was a rush thing today and I should not have tried it at all but the sun was shining and the wind was less than 50 mph. It started then died. I think it was with left over fuel. Rewind the clock!

Tom,

Ok I moved the minute hand back 5 min's..... Make sure you fully warm the engine up on the stock ECM first.

Also make sure you have the injectors configuration set up for low impedance injectors. The manual goes into detail on how to do this. You can also send me your tune up file and I'll have a quick look see.

The bonus of TBI is you can look and see if the injectors are spraying fuel while your cranking. After you check all of the above, I'd do this next - it'll tell you right away if you have a fuel delivery problem.

efi

Tom

Email me your tune up file and I'll have a look to see if there is anything off.

This is the one thing with EFI - you can send the tune up file and ask for help - try that with a carb.. .

EFI

I have to work for the next few days. I'll try to make sure everything is OK and give it a try again Friday. If it doesn't start I'll send the file. I'm still a little uncertain of the actual process though I did see it done once in Wendover. Tom

Tom,

Warm the engine on the stock ECM
disconnect the set timing connector and using your timing light adjust the distributor so its running around 20* BTDC base timing. Leave the set timing connector disconnected until you have the idle/low speed fuel set up.

Plug in the MS

Crank and see if you are getting fuel sprayed, if not check on the laptop if you are getting RPM displayed. No RPM means no tach signal ->> no tach signal means no fuel sprayed. The tach signal is what triggers the whole meal deal. If you don't have a tach signal you have something mis-configured and you MUST fix it - nothing will work until you do. Also the fuel pump will not turn on past the inital 2 second prime period unless you have a tach signal.

- you may need to open the throttle a bit while cranking - it may take some diddling to find the right throttle position where it will start and run the first time. The amount of fuel injected during cranking is controlled by the cranking fuel pulse width ONLY not by the fuel table.
- once it starts, if its lean you may have to keep stabing the trottle to activate the "accel" pump.
- if its rich generally the engine will run but you will know if its burning your eyes out...
- as soon as it keeps running say at 1200 RPM open the 3D VE MAP (fuel table) and move the red dot using the arrow keys to where the engine is running indicated by the blue dot. And then either richen or lean the fuel until it idles - remember to adjust all 4 corners around the operating point.
Then let off the throttle a bit and adjust the next operting position. Repeat this process until your at curb idle and the engine will idle normally.


the Q key richens the fuel the W key leans the fuel

Also remember that if it floods open the throttle past 70% and crank - if the throttle is open more than 70% your in clear flood mode. Almost no fuel is injected. As soon as it catches let off or it will die from no fuel.

Tic , tic, tic.......

I got it connected, The truck talks to the MS and the MS talks to the laptop. That is a long way from where we began. I warmed it up on the stock ECM then switched. I set the TPS. It fires and dies right away. It has cranking RPMs. It has to be getting fuel or it wouldn't fire every time I turn it over. What do I change to keep it going. I'll have help here tomorrow, weather permitting. I have the O2 set for narrow bad because it is the stock '89 GMC. It is using the GM MAP and the MS Map set up for real time BP. It's a start, well near start. Tom

Do you have a place to set the minimum IAC setting? If so raise it up. Good job! Keep at it, your almost there. Tom

[This is the one thing with EFI - you can send the tune up file and ask for help - try that with a carb.. .}

Don't need a file with a carb it constantly makes it's own file, I don't see any benefit other than gas mileage.

Not trying to start anything but this how I see it,a
lot easier and cheaper.

Harry

For all out HP,they(carbs or EFI) would be about the same.

For drivability,& produce more mid range torque,usually the EFI will shine over a carb set-up.

I think once you get used to EFI & is set-up correctly,,changes will be much easier,total timing control + fueling .

No arguement from me,carbs are easy for me also.

You can see how Beater is having a hard time w/this,but if someone was there to show him how to do it, I am sure he would catch on right away.
Once he gets comfortable w/the megasquirt,he will make changes much easier.
I would be in the same boat as him w/the megasquirt,I would probably fly some megasquirt guru over to my house & teach me & be done w/it.

MBHD

I'll be honest - the first time is the hardest - after I had everything connected on my first installation - I stood back and asked myself now what! There was very little help around for DIY EFI except that odd person on the MS forum.

Tom

Email me your tune up file I'll look and see if there is anything off.

Did you disconnect the set timing connector?

Can you see fuel being sprayed while cranking?

Harry,

Point taken - however until you have tried EFI its hard to convey the tuneability that it gives you. And yes I can tune a carb reasonably well.

When I can move a fuel or timing value 1% and find power that would take a well equipped carb shop equipped with a wet flow bench to do, its hard to beat.

If your coming to Texas next month you may be able to see it first hand.

I have about half as much in this TBI stuff as a Webber setup would cost. I can also tune carbs. I just thought this would be fun. It might still be.
I'll have help tomorrow. At least someone to turn the key while I check some stuff. Yes, the timing is disconnected. The closed reading on the TPS was 108 and not 0. It may be held open with the set screw. I'll check that. Beater

108 is not unusual for a closed TPS setting.

Your making progress - keep at it.

1) check to see if your getting fuel sprayed while cranking.
2) If you are then its most likely lean.

What numbers are in your REQ FUEL, number of squirts?

Try cycling the key on/off say 4 times before cranking - each time you turn the key off/on MS gives the engine a shot of fuel.

Injection control page 1 ?
Injections per cycle 4

Doesn't the TBI use a Idle Air Control Motor(IAC)? Tom

My thoughts are, with a carb it will automatically change the mixture as conditions change with fuel injection YOU have to change it. And it much cheaper and quicker to get running.

EFI was invented to get better gas milage and meet smog rules thats all ,what if your out on the highway and something goes wrong you can't take it apart and fix it you call a tow truck.

There are a lot of blow through carbs that make big HP 2500+ and every time a cloud goes over you don't need to make a change, all I see with EFI is the guys in their cars playing with their laptops in the staging lanes.

Everyone agrees EFI will not make more power than a carb so why go through the grief.

Harry

Harry,

If you wish to continue this discussion open a new thread - this is beaters conversion which he has chossen to do.

This is what is cool here difference of opinion! Different purposes. I doubt if this 1 ton dualy will make many 1/4 mile passes. It's not a race car it's a truck. How do you feel about HEI? Do you fix that on the side of the road? It's just another option that I think will work for me. I see a lot of race cars on trailers pulled by injected trucks. I could carry a carb under the seat with the points distributer and the tire patches. What's wrong with better fuel milage and the same power?
Tom, it does have an IAC motor.

Beater

Sorry I will drop the subject, just seems some on this board think you need EFI to run a turbo.

Harry

P.S. an HEI module fits in my pocket.
Just kidding.

Harry. no problem with me over this. You have far more experience with this than I do. I'm just doing something that interest me and hoping to make it easier for others. If I can make this run anyone can. Tom

Beater,
Is there ( in the software ) a place to set the minimum IAC value? This is the place the IAC goes to once the engine is running. When it is off it closes all the way.


Turbo 6,
I run the EFI because it was what I wanted at the time. It starts great and has not broke down (much). The tunability and data logging are second to none.

I just put together a 250 turbo engine and it was carbed, made great power, started great and tuned very easy. There are good and bad about both systems. Tom

Here is what I found today. When it is cold and snowing the help doesn't show up. The MS injector pulse light flashes when cranking. Even when cold it starts right up but stops when I let the key come back from start to run. It powers up in the on/run position and fires the prestart pulses. It will run with the key in the start position but that is sort of tough on the starter. It works fine with the stock ECM. Wiring? Problem in the GM harness adapter?

Tom, I'm also going to take a look at the IAC circuit. There was a choice there in the assembly as well as a tune setting. But it will run if I can get power in the run mode. Beater

Sounds like a wiring problem. Recheck Gm harness. Did you make it? Tom

At this point I am using the Megasquirt on an '89 GMC. All I have done is to disconnect the timing lead to the distributer so I am only dealing with fuel. ( I thought) It runs fine on the stock ECM, just no timing advance. The '89 is my test vehicle. Tom

Tom,

You need to check if you have +12 power on GM ECM harness pin A6 in both crank and run. This pin provides power to the MS. A good place to check power on the Ms itself is the voltage regulator. If you hold the board so the heat sink is facing up the input pin to the reg. is the LH one.

Check the Harness pin then check the regulator pin in both crank and run.

Pin A6 is on the smaller of the 2 GM connectors top row. The numbers are embossed into the connector plastic.

EFI

I'll do that tomorrow. Thanks, Tom

Tom,

You may also have to check the injector PWM setup - if its off it could cause the problem you are seeing.

While cranking the MS rips the injectors open using 100% duty cycle as the battery voltage is not at 12v when the starter is engaged.

Once the engine gets above the minimum cranking rpm - the PWM kicks in to keep the injectors from getting to hot - remember these are low impedance injectors. Search the following pages for injector PWM. If you turn the PMW off and it runs (only let it run for a few seconds) then you know where the problem is. The injectors and the injectors drivers will get hot fast if you run it more for say 5 seconds.

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/

Also did you install PWM circuit?

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/V3trouble.htm

Well put.

Are you going to get back on the MS and TBI today? Definate loss of power when you release key?

Recheck the simple stuff. When I was young and full of stupid ideas, put a edelbrock cross ram dual quad on a 400 sbc. It ran well. Changed to a better distributor and that when things went bad. It started fine, idled good (as it could with a big cam), and pulled good until you really got into it. After what seems like weeks of trouble shooting, to the point of thinking something happened to the timing chain/ gear and looking. It turned out I had wired my brain to remember the firing order incorrectly and thus crossed two sparkplug wires and it still ran decent as is. Once that was fixed the motor did not last long because it just screamed. My friends did not let me live it down, not even today. Tom

This is something simple because as I learn more about it my whole part in this is simple. The MS guys did all the hard stuff. I've been doing a lot of searching on the MS forum. I will try to do what EFI-DIY suggested. I think there is something in the injector setup that is off. I have power in ON & START. The low impedance injectors have a special setting and I have to go back and check where I am with that. I think power to the injectors is being cut to protect them. There is a new 2" of snow and lots of wind so I'm going to do as much as I can inside today. I can do some of that with the stim board. Beater
P.S. We did a similar thing with my son's Stude. It has the same firing order as a SBC but the rotor turns the other way. It hit on #1.

Can't believe you are still getting snow. What's your elevation? Tom

5,800 feet. This global warming is kickin' my butt! It is slowing everything but the weeds. Beater

MBHD:
I guess he could, of course, just call efi-diy, but if he did, then I wouldn't be learning anything...ergo this forum, see?

Thanks:
Paul...aka xerxes

Come on boys, you all act like you're going thru man-o-pause. This is supposed to be a fun place to gather and exchange information, not a pissin' contest. I agree that typed words can't show your true feelings/emotions, but hey, 'I' do have a website to moderate.

Tim

X2^2

Ouch!

What is the HRI board. Perhaps another place to learn something? What's the web address?

Hot Rod Inlines is another board for those who have interest in our preferred engine type. You will see friends from here and some new ones. It is simply a different place for us to hang out and visit. Come and join us. We still spend a lot of time here because this is our club. This is the club! Beater

We are sooo close! I am looking back now at the pulse width modulation and fly back circuits to see if I made mistakes during assembly. When I get this done I will go through the assembly steps and put something together for us to help simplify this process for anyone using GM junk yard parts to inject an inline. If I can get this done anyone can. The MS kit and assembly guide are great but because it covers so many applications it is easy to get lost. It will be much shorter that this thread! Beater

Well it sounds like you are ready to wrap this project up then. I bet that will be a relief. Now if it will just quite snowing so you can put it on the road and start having some fun.

"Rapp" it up maybe "wind" it up when I "tune" it up but I'm a long way from the end. Getting the MS going is really just the beginning. The purpose of the thread was to get help to make one good truck from the piles of parts laying around. Each step has it's own challenges and it will take a while to make all the mods needed. I think the MS is the toughest one. We'll see. Beater

You making any noise with this yet?

Not yet. I've been real busy with other stuff. My son graduated from UNR Saturday! I have had to work a little more than usual and what little warm weather there is gets used up by the weeds. I have been reading on the MS forums and I found the information I need. I also found that I have a connection problem in the DB9 cable. I'll try to get that fixed tomorrow and then take a look through my file and make sure it is OK. Tom

Tom:

What you're doing is very cool. Count me in as one of the many who are eager to see / hear your results. Clearly this has been a journey for you. It's great that efi-dyi has been able to help break trail for you but it still seems like a huge undertaking.

Sincerely:
Paul...aka xerxes

Turning a footpath into a wagon trail takes work and this is what Tom is doing...

Once Tom has established a working tune up and has the reduced instructions done, this conversion should be able to be done easily if you know which end of the screwdriver is pointy.

Will it take some effort - yes - think back to the first time you built an engine - I bet it took a lot longer than it does now.

If all goes well I'll be giving a presentation on the EFI basics and in particular TBI set up next month at the Convention.

X2

I'm hoping what seems like a 'huge undertaking' for you will help it be less of an undertaking for me.

ANXIOUSLY awaiting and good luck.

We just about have all the parts together to make this happen at the Convention. The neat thing about it is the work will be done on the grand prize motor on the run stand. Every thing will be easy to get to. Thanks to every one who donated parts and time to help make this happen. The Inliner world out there sure has stepped up to he plate.

Those are some great words of encouragement guys and I greatly appreciate them. I will get this done and I know I can help some of you avoid some of the problems I have had. Soon and thanks again for the kind words. I wish I could be at the convention. Jerry you will really enjoy working with Marc to inject the prize engine. If I have anything you need please ask. Beater

The Prize motor is being used only as a test motor for this DEMO. The motor will be returned to a carburetor when testing is complete for give away. I can hardly wait..see you guys there...J

That is what we did at Bonnevile. You will be amazed at how fast Marc will have it runnung, and how good it will run. My 270 still hates me for putting the carb back on. Beater

It looks like I may have more that one problem. Because I was confused about "PWM" (pulse width modulation) I left out a step that helps run the injectors. There may also be a power issue in the truck and a computer connection problem. I will just have to sort some stuff out. The good news is that by doing it this way I can put the stock ECM back on and check out the truck. I can hook the computer to something else through the serial port and check that. I will add the flyback circuit and reload the basic parameters. A couple of hours this weekend will answer some questions. I hope someone at the convention will make a video of the TBI conversion there. It will be much the same as the Boneville Demo. Beater

Anyone want to start a pool.... which engine is going to be running first... Beater's or the grand prize one........

I figure Beater has a 28 day head start....

I've got $50 on the Grand Prize!

$50 on beater.... got a whole month head start...

I'll beat efi diy does another tune on somebody elses vehicle first!
LOL!

MBHD

Your right - my own....

Beater is stubborn enough that he'll work it out... got to give him credit for the tenacity...

Beater so - times a ticking.... any progress... that convention 250's getting closer to being running on TBI.....

Go Beater Go!

MBHD

I spent yesterday on the MS project. I found a problem that I think is in the GM adapter board. When using the stock ECM the test truck starts and runs as it should. When the MS is plugged It does not communicate with the laptop. When I remove the GM adapter board and plug in the Stim board it connects to the laptop and seems to work fine. I plugged in the GM adapter board in the truck without the MS and checked to see if I was getting 12v where I thought it should be, DB37 pin #26. I wasn't, but I was getting 12v on several pins where I don't think I should, pin #s 20, 22, 23, 24,25, & 29. I will need to check out GM plug to see if I have some extra solder on the GM plug that I didn't remove when I pulled it from the donor ECM. It won't get done before the demo at the convention. Beater

Beater

Take a picture of the top and bottom of the GM adapter outside the case, and post the pix here. I might spot something that you may miss.

Here are some Pictures Of the adapter board. Thanks, Tom

I'd touch up the soldering on both connectors - looks like you have some cold joints. If you want me to take a closer look mail it here...

I have some good experience with soldering and board repair.
It looks to me like a few of the solder joints may have too much solder. Notice how some of the traces on the brd are isolated from the rest of brd by dark lines. Look where they go to the soldered pins and excess solder could cause a solder bridge .

I use a hand operated " solder sucker" or fine copper mesh to suck up solder.

You had said there was power where there should not be. Maybe this is it. Goodluck Tom

Thanks guys! This was the first piece I did. Maybe not enough solder in some spots and too much in others although I was being careful about bridges. Maybe too cautious. I got better toward the end. I'll go over it and clean up joints. I tested the main board with the stim again this morning and all still seems fine there. I wont have a chance to work on it for a couple of weeks. I have to go to SOCAL. While the iron is hot should I add the other "fly back" circuit? Step #69 I think. Beater

Tom,

Any progress on this?

No, I was in SOCAL for a week and have been battling weeds higher than my fences since we got back. I am afraid we are looking at a bad wildfire season in the west this year and closest fire station is several miles away. I still need to check all the solder joints on the adapter board and re solder any that don't look good. If that doesn't work I'm going to order a new one and do that part over. It is not that expensive.

How did it go at the convention? Did you "WOW" 'em? I really wish I could have been there to see it all again. Tom

If you missed the convention. There was a good eye opening experience. EFI got the motor running in quick order with the TBI. The neat part was when he tuned it from the classroom with the video projected so all could see, the engine was outside and you could hear him change the tune.

Cool, so who won the 250 engine?

MBHD

Too bad we ran a bit late on getting the engine fired ...kind of ran into the banquet dinner.

That was when I realized just how old the club membership is ... I bet the average age at the dinner was 70.

Sounds neat, especially the "remote tuning" part.

Shoot, I should have been there I could have helped lower the average age by a smidgen but not have helped the average IQ much. That sounds like a bit more high tech than our Bonneville show. It would have been nice to have a wind break! But even in adverse conditions Marc was quick on the keyboard and got the 270 running smooth and running at idle in-spite of a vacuum leak. I hope someone made a video of the convention conversion. Tom

The '68 flatbed is getting a fuel tank transplant in preparation for the TBI conversion. The tank is from a '90 Suburban. Beater

The tank is in. Filler neck and vent done. Pump in tank just need to extend wires and fuel lines to engine and add the O2 sensor. A bit of wiring and I'll be ready to try the stock ECM.

Hooray for progress.

Hasn't your four piles into one turned into 5 piles into 6?? I reduced my project count by 50% and gained a car. I'm blaming it on modern math.

Funny that you should ask. I, in an attempt at pile reduction, offered the Suburban body to a guy I know to use as a parts donor for his Suburban. While trying to figure out how to get the body to him and retain the frame and running gear he offered to trade a running 454 powered '81 1 ton 4X4 club cab with a dump bed for the Suburban. That would bring into play My '50 GMC 3/4 ton previously not in the pile count. As the 1 ton would become a dump trailer and running gear for the '50. Anyone need a BBC? So we are somewhere in the 8 piles into 3 range now with little real progress being made. I tried to put a little gas in the new tank setup on the '68 and discovered a design flaw. It seems that gasoline like water prefers to run down hill. Beater