I'm planning on attending B-Ville in Aug. and have an offer to make ...

If any of you inliners who will be there with your rides are interested in seeing live what it will take to do an efi-tbi conversion, and that have a 4bbl intake (holley flange, 70 amp alternator and electronic ignition (HEI is OK) MSD6A preferred). I'll make you an offer here...

I'll bring along all the bits and pieces to do a parking lot EFI-TBI conversion, using a 1 gallon jerry can as the gas tank since running the lines for real takes the most time. We'll un-bolt your carb, bolt on the TBI and be up and running in under 60 min's. .....

We'll be able to get it idling and if you have a place to hang the gas can - go for a short low speed drive...

I'll be able to demonstrate the tuning s/w on the laptop.

All we'll need is an accessible under hood battery connection - we'll run power from the battery, access to the tach output on the ignition, a thermally warm motor - not hot as we'll hang the coolant sensor in the rad neck and then use a toggle switch to turn the system on/off instead of messing your wiring.

We can forgo the O2 and air temp sensors for this demo... but if the exhaust pipe had an O2 bung installed then we could screw in the O2 sensor...

Once we're done we'll re-install your carb again - just like it was...

Any interest ? I could talk a bit at the BBQ if folks were interested.

This sounds very interesting! I want to go to Boneville this year but my 292 won't be that far along. I'd sure like to watch what you do. Another local guy is building one also maybe he'll be up for it. It would be great to meet you any way!

Great offer for someone to see how MegaSquirt is installed and tuned. Once you see the results you will throw the carb in the trash can.

We just completed the installation of MegaSquirt on the 1950 Buick salt flat race car. We are still running the 4-71 blower and carb on it for now. We are using the MS for datalogging purposes only, we got DIYAutoTune.com to change the ecu to read MAT at two locations, above and below the blower.

Love to but the class won't allow it. JD

Don't know if I'll be there, but would this offer be good for an inliner that's driving a 4V equipped ride with an off topic mill?

Well get the engine together and mount it in an engine test stand. Get it running on the carb and bring it along... for that matter it could be any engine with a holley 4bbl intake flange... as long as it runs normally e.g. no oil burners or burnt valves or blown intake gasket it'll do the job.

The 270 in my '53 pick-up? It's running a 500 cfm Edlebrock on a Clifford manifold. I could get a Holley adapter if needed. I was thinking of driving it any way. I built it in '78 but it runs well. I drove to Austin a year ago and to work almost every day. If that will work I'll see you in Windover! If by chance the 270 won't work I'll come up with something that will. Our Chapter event is the 31st in Minden, NV, I can twist an arm or two there.

As long as it has a holley flange and 12V electronic ignition it'll be fine.

How about with the MSD 'ready to run' distributor'?

That will be just fine. Just need to get a tach signal from it and we're good.

Pertronics in stock distributer or Unilite, I've got both for the 270.

Either one will work. I'll have to configure the board to take coil - terminal input as the tach .. 10 min's work no biggie..

Speed Week is August 18th-24th. What part of the week do you want to do it? I'll be there. If a better candidate shows up I'll be glad to watch.

I'll have to check what day we're supposed to arrive with the race car (Black Opel) and let you know.

Maybe we do at it the inliners BBQ? If you have a canopy to set up - it'll be a little cooler out of the sun to work on it and easier to read the laptop.

OK, I'll get a can-a-pee, I don't know how you use that in Canada to keep cool, but I know I've got a lot to learn. If we're going to work in the shade of it I'll get a BIG can. Inliners BBQ sounds good. Let me know when you can. My time is pretty flexable. Thanks, Tom

If you make a DVD of this process, I'd like to buy one from you. I'm still looking to do it with GM wiring and ECM. Someone on eBay makes a small cap HEI distributor (4.3L style) to fit into the newer inline engines. (194 thru 292) I'm making mine from the 181 marine distributor transplanting the 4.3L stuff on it. Lets see how it all comes out.

when and where is the BBQ? I didn't see it on the events calender? I would love to attend and see the conversion as well. We will be racing during the day(Contrivance Engineering guys w yellow 23t, red 27t, blue stude)
Hans

After dragging the exhaust off of the '53 hauling the Big Dodge home from Minden I had new pipes put on Friday. 2" straight pipes from the Fentons to the back bumper. A very different sound! It seems that some of the lopey cam is a head gasket leak between #2 & 3. I guess I'll spend my 63rd birthday fixing that tomorrow! It's got to run well I've got a Bar-B-Que to attend in August. Funny, I couldn't really hear it with the old exhaust and I just thought it wasn't as snappy as it once was. I thought it was just old age, both of us. I've been driving that old 270 hard since '78. It'll be interesting to peek inside. I hope it is only a gasket. When's the BBQ?

While your in there fixin things, add in a O2 sensor bung make sure that the sensing tip of the O2 sensor is pointing downward so moisture can't collect in the O2 sensor.

This thing has Fenton headers and duel pipes. Would one bung in one pipe work, or do I need one in each pipe? This is a demo for the EFI but the real future for this engine will be a McCullach/two carb set up. An o2 sensor would be handy there too.

Just one bung is enough. The 2nd is optional.

Do you have a spare place to screw a coolant sensor into the head or cooling jacket - just thinking ahead... the rads going to be really hot and under pressure to just open and hang the sensor into the rad neck... '88 to '92 TBI truck efi coolant sensor will work fine - about $10 at the auto parts or less at the junkyard

Once you get this back together can you send me a few pix of the engine so I know where were going to have to hook up to .. power ground, tach, vacumm etc...

I'll rig a sensor and take some pictures. It's been a slower go than I though, but it's getting there.

Ok from your pix, we might be able to rig a throttle cable and drive it a bit. I did notice that the intake manifold has a clover leaf in the middle... We should be ok. I'll have to look at the TBI to carb adapter plate..

When we do the conversion the mechanical fuel pump will have to be plugged off so we don't pump gas everywhere... so think of the best way to do that and bring it along.

Hey efi-diy, do you know of a small (250 - 350 cfm) single-venturi type throttle body? I've got two cars that could use a simple "carb replacement". One's got a Carter YF now the other a Carter WCD (small 1950's 2bbl). Decidedly non-performance apps, but hey, there's a place for everything.

Allgedly Ford had one that fit to a YF type flange. I'll be damned if I can locate one by app. I don't know new-fangled cars well enough to find it by car model.

Try any of the late '80's GM FWD cars, the low end 4 cyl. models came with TBI. Next time I'm at the wreckers I'll take a look.

This is where I am right now. I ended up with a vacuum leak that I'll fix Friday. It's about bolting a 302 manifold on a 270 head. You've got to do some creative gasketing! I got a 10 X 20 canape for shade. It has sides if we need them. I have a temp sensor for an '89 GMC that I'll install on the thermostat housing below the thermostat where the heater hose comes out. It takes a two wire plug. I got an O2 sensor bung and plug. I don't want to try to mount it on the header but on the front exhaust pipe. How for down the pipe should it be? It has a 45 degree base so it can be mounted so as not to collect moisture. The tach connects to the negative coil terminal. We could remove the mechanical fuel pump or maybe just the fuel line. I'll bring a block off plate. I'll try to get some more detailed pictures Friday and post them. Tom

Have you guys figured out where and when you are going to do this?

The thought was to do it at the inliners BBQ so all can watch,I think its on the Tuesday.

Put the 02 sesnor bung about 24 inches downstream of the manifold with the tip of the sensor pointed down so moisture won't collect inthe sensor.

Do you have a connection point under the hood that is 12V switched from the ignition switch where we could hook up an alligator clip?

Maybe the 12ga wire going to the alt. field connection.

It has a one wire alternator. There is a fuse panel on the firewall. I think that is switched. I'll check it in the morning. 2 feet down for the O2 sensor, It will be easy to weld but maybe tough to reach from the top. We'll make it work!

I hope to put alligator clips on the 5 wires we'll need to hook up to the vehicle harness... 5 min's to hook up the wiring :).

The 12V source that is switched needs to be hot in both run and crank.

We'll also need a manifold vacuum connection with a 1/4" hose barb to hook up the MAP sensor.

Manifold vacuum is on the list. I'll locate a wire or run one.

This is a great idea. It will be good for people to see the process of changing to efi using MegaSquirt. I am surprised that more people do not change from the carb to efi.

Here is a link to pics I took yesterday. They more clearly show where things will connect. When the O2 bung is in I'll add it. I'm still having trouble with the Intake manifold seal and an oil leak. I drove it to Reno yesterday to help my son move. It runs great under power. The straight pipes were a mistake! Although it sounds tough when you're on it. Tom

http://picasaweb.google.com/sixpics/UnderHoodHookups?authkey=Nghu1DVZe7Y

This morning I went down to the U pull yard to get the parts to do the swap less the fuel pump and inline fuse holders.

[/URL


[URL=http://img509.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p7260382ta9.jpg]
Total cost for the parts less the TBI to carb adapter less than $90.
Add $40 for the TBI adapter

Megasquirt II ready built $400 ($247 if you build it yourself).
$35 for the TBI to MS GM harness adapter board.

Fuel pump - used $30

Inovate LC1 wide band $179 (local speed shop) (or borrow one) you only really need it to do the initial fuel tune up and as long as you don't change the engine configuration you can use a regular narrow band sensor once your done the tune up.

Misc. stuff $100 (all the small stuff)

So all together for roughly $540 you can have a full EFI system controlling both fuel and ignition timing, if you build the MS yourself. About the same price as a new carb (locally).

At the demo we'll just do the fuel side only, when starting from scratch either do the fuel OR ignition control as its a lot tougher to sort out both at once.

Once the demo is done if anyone wants the harness,GM ECM,TBI and fuel stub lines I'll sell it for $100 ( a couple of $$ for my gas to go get it and prep the harness). The MS is out of my truck so its coming home with me..:)

what did you pull all that from? Truck,Van Car???? v8,v6?inline4??. Or does it really matter as long as it had a TBI

Larry,

This one is out of a '88 chevy full size van. Its one of the easiest harnesses to yank out and need minimal work to make into a conversion harness.

But anything that had TBI will work.

Cool
I have that same Van so now i know what else will come out even thow i had already plained on taking it out anyway along with the 700R that is in it. Because right I am thinking of getting rid of that van because I am not sure if the timing chain has went or If it may just be the fuel pump at this time. and I'm not if i feel like putting anymore money into that van. because it needs a bunch of front end parts. Anything Else I need of it??

Larry,

Take the entire fuel system including the tank, and ALL the wiring even if you don't use the entire harness - its a good source of wire. Also take the coil and dist. for the ign. module.


If this is going into a 250/292 if you get the '81 calif. dist. then its a true plug and play for ign. control.

The Alternator if its good has a decent output rating and much better than the early SI models. The front pulley swaps for a v belt OK.

Well I know i won't be needing the Tank. Because I already have a fuel cell in the car.
efi-diy if you are in the clubs roster how about droping me a PM
Thats if you don't mind a phone call from me.
Thanks

Got the harness stripped of the unused stuff. Almost ready to go.

Still having trouble sealing the intake manifold, but it will happen. I am looking forward to this. I might be interested in the harness and whatever you don't need.

Harness will be ready to go tonight - need to pick up some fuse holders and alligator clips.

We'll need 2 3/8" studs to hook the gnd. ring termnals (qty.2) up.

So final wire count:

gnd. ring terminals - 2
battery connection - 1
tach connection (fuel only) - 1
ignition switch hot in run & crank - 2 (1 needed, wide band O2 - 1)
O2 sensor connector - 1
Coolant sensor - 1 plug

If using the Calif. '81 spark control dist. to control spark its almost plugn and play.

The tach, ign. sw and battery/gnd connections are really the only splices into the vehicle electrical system for fuel only control.

99% ready here, need to configure the megasquirt and add 2 ring terminals to hook up the fuel pump.

89% ready here. Waiting on new rear main seal. Still have to reseal Intake, adjust carb and timing. Then back to Kat's Fabworks for mufflers and 02 bung. I busted a lowering block showing off but that's a quick fix. I'll be ready.

Unrelated, really, but I just got a GM TBI setup untangles and running nicely on my 232ci AMC inline six in my 1963 Rambler Classic.

It was a Howell "258 Jeep" kit I got from a fellow AMCer who ended up not using it.

I did it at the same time as a valve job (200K miles on propane, lots of valve recession but otherwise find and the bottom end is perfect).

I had stuck an old Carter YF on it after I yanked all the LPG stuff off (after 20 years on LPG!), for the TBI setup I had to install "late model" (1980's) aluminum 2bbl intake (BBD pattern) and a bunch of water plumbing, etc.

I'd yanked the gasoline tank and pitched it decades ago, but imagine my luck, I found a 63 classic in a local junkyard!! and it had a good unrusted gas tank!! I cleaned it out, and added a return line to it.

All THAT crap took some 40 hours of work. The Howell took probably 8. It worked first thing, EXCEPT it ran super-crazy rich. Howell was very helpful when I called!

The problem was the hose from the return line to the tank kinked in a too-tight radius. It was open when I installed it, but I guess the hose collapsed with time. I re-routed it and all's well.

I'll check the tuning when I've finished untangling it. The kit was for a 258, and it's on a 232. The motor's fairly high compression (9.5:1) and a stock 1970 cam and the old Borg Warner M35 auto trans. The maps may need tweaking but it's close enoug to drive well.

This was my first EFI. I got the kit cheap! Glad I went with it. I've got more cars... I picture Megasquirt in my future...

Tom,

Can you figure out where we can hang the jerry can and the pump which should be close to the can. Then get enough 5/16" and 3/8" hose to run from 3' from the TBI (I have about 3' of GM fuel line) to where every the can is getting hung. Make sure the fuel hose is rated for EFI,I think its 30R4 on the hose but check with a good parts guy to be sure. I hate engine fires.

Marc

This is about right, running the fuel lines is the longest part of the process. If you start with a GM harness count on 8-12 hours of adjusting the length to suit the installation. The upside is that you can still lump around on the carb until your ready.

For folks that are not 100% comfortable with EFI - leave the stock fuel/pickup in place..

I did the first time I converted to EFI, but I was also going from here to St Paul MN.. a 2 day drive on a new system so I wanted to be able to convert back to the Qjet in a hurry.

After a few months of have the Qjet bounce around it ended up on the shelf..

Marc,Lets put the can in the bed. I'll get hose at work. Do they both need to be pressure line or just the 3/8? Tom

Tom,

The 3/8 supply line needs to be rated for pressure, the return line needs to be rated for pressure also in case the return line gets plugged (kinked) then the whole system goes to what ever pressure the fuel pump will put out. Some method of holding the jerry can in place and both hoses in the jerry can will be needed as the return line has pressure behind it and we don't want it coming out of the can. A bunch of plastic wire ties will be handy to tie things up away from moving/hot parts.

From the throttle body there is about 3' of braided hose then about 2-3' of hard line with the pressure side having the stock fuel filter installed, and then about 1' of hard line past the filter. We can adjust the hard line on-site, I have the correct EFI fuel clamps.

Can you bring about 15' of 14ga. wire and a hand full of butt connectors in case we need to extend the fuel pump wires. I don't have an air cleaner for the TBI but I do have the air cleaner spacer and will bring it with me. If you want to run an air cleaner then bring a chunk if 1/4 threaded rod and a hacksaw. We should be able to reuse your carb base gasket to put under the TBI adapter. I think this should be all the details.


I really looking forward to getting this done...

We're really going to do this! I'll make a check list tonight of the final (we hope) purchases and acquisitions, and another list for modifications not yet completed. Except for a run Friday to the Hot August Nights swap meet my friend Vic and I will be spending all our time on the '53 until it's ready. It will be our transportation and home while there. We may be asking for favors! Tom

If you guys see any Z34 Caviler hood vents could you pick them up for me?

I believe they are around the year 1993-1995

Thanks
MBHD

Tom,

If you get a chance find a TBI V8 truck (running or for parts) and see what would be needed to hook up the throttle cable. We've come this far it would be a shame not to drive the truck a bit. Oh - don't forget the jerry can and gas... 5 gal's is good size.

Marc

At work tomorrow I'll pick up fuel hose, wire, and connecters. Do you mean the old military jerry can? Do you need the large opening to get the pump inside? I think I have one of those that doesn't leak. I have an '89 GMC ( remember the 4 piles ) that I can check the throttle cable on to see how to adapt it to the '53. I'm not worried about an air cleaner for the short time we'll be running this. If I change my mind I'll rob the one from the '89. It's still a driver at this point. We're closing in on this!

Marc, Fuel line rated for 50 psi is 30R7 @ $1.29 '. Fuel line rated for 185 psi is J30R9 @ $499'. The J30R9 is for fuel injection, is that what we need? Hank, I wrote those down and will keep an eye out Friday. What is a fair price?

30R7 is fine. No need spending extra $$.

We'll mount the pump outside the fuel can. Any 5 gallon fuel can will work as long as we can get the hoses inside.

I set up a little outboard motor fuel tank for projects like this and starting all my cars so that I would always have fresh fuel instead of the old stuff in the vehicles tank and it works real well. So if you do that you can use it around the house when you get back also.Found new plastic tank at Academy very reasonable.
Wish I was going to be there, been several years since I have been out there,Jesse "Leroy"

With what I save on fuel line I'll fix up a can and a means to hold it in place.

10 days and counting...

10 days and counting...

Let's count backwards for a day or two. Oh well, Vic can sit in the bed and work on stuff on the way! We'll get it done.

We did it! I got back from Bonneville last night. ( I hated to leave ) Not a lot of pictures but I'll clean them up and post later today. For two guys from different countries that had never met planning something on this site that took place at a picnic full of rowdy Inliners in the windy dusk at the end of a long race day it went really well. Marc is a very sharp guy. He was wrenching/keyboarding when I had to head home yesterday. More later, Tom

Here is a link to pictures of the TBI conversion. They don't show a lot. The first 8 show Marc and Vic hooking things up and Marc setting up his lap top. The others are shots of the wrecking yard parts from the '89 GM van and prep done on the 270 to make it ready. We just did the fuel and didn't even install the o2 sensor. I was windy and almost dark when we got started. in about an hour it was running and Marc was able to dial it in enough to show that this could be made to work very well. Jerry Hoffmann from DYI Auto Tune was there and assured me that he would be glad to help solve any problems. I am convinced enough that I'm saving up to buy the Megasquirt stuff for the turbo 292 project. I'll have to learn how to use the computer program but the actual installation doesn't worry me at all any more. Paring down the wire harness and making things will take some time.
http://picasaweb.google.com/sixpics/270GMCTBIConversion?authkey=_SJszi-f2Mw

You're in good company with DIY Auto Tune .Gary Hart's record breaker.

http://www.diyautotune.com/cars/customer/gary_hart_studebaker.htm

Gary Hart is known to all Studebaker guys. The Studebaker Driver's Club is another great group of people who share their knowledge,time, and even parts in a pinch. I got involved with them while helping my son with his '54 Stude Wagon. By the way someone at the Picnic was talking to me about a '55 stude wagon. I wish we had been able to talk more. If he sees this I hope he will contact me. Tom

http://picasaweb.google.com/sixpics/JakeSStude02?authkey=1FVSQT1nnno

Tom,

Thanks for bringing your truck, it was good prep on your part that helped make things go smoothly.

We did have a small vacumm leak between the manifold and adapter plate that normally would have been fixed before trying to tune the idle, but lacking time we had to compensate. The effect was at low idle the vacumm leak ( you could hear it whistling) was telling the computer the throttle was wide open which under normal usage would mean go rich ... well it did and we were chucking out bricketttes ... so I had to make a fast mod to the fuel table to remove fuel. Once done we were able to get it to idle ok and wing the throttle a few times and I think it was pretty clean at least it sounded good. Then the high pressure supply line popped off twice which terminated the drive portion we had planned.
With another 1/2 hour (and less wind) we would have had a decent drivable tune.

As Tom metioned earlier overall it went very well all things condisdered and I was satisifed with the outcome.

I do have the tune up saved for the megasquirt and it would be a decent starting point for anyone doing a TBI conversion. Perhaps our webmaster could post the file somewhere...?

Marc, Thank you for putting this together. It was fun! The TBI is setting on the 292 turbo mockup. I know it will work now. (in stages) Yea, a few more minutes and a few less leaks and we would have had a driver. I learned a lot, Thanks again. Are you home or still on the road? How did you do with the Opel? That was quite a row of inlines in the pits. That was my first time for Speed week and I will never miss it again!

Tom,

I'm still on the road - heading home in the morning - 8 hours of fighting campers on a 2 lane...

The opel went 190 out hte back door on the short course and will go faster, we'rre still way early in the tuning process and on the 3rd full run went 5 mph faster than the old OHC pontiac. Mechanical problems sent us packing. The boys have some homework todo to find the root cause and fix it. I'll let the car owners fill in the details.

Marc and Tom,

If you could send me an article and descriptive photos I could add it to our 'Tech Tips'.

Tim

Tim,I hope they do just that. I think a tech tip could be easily formatted for printing in 12PN for those who read 12PN but have no interest in logging in to this web site....and there are many.

I think with some time I could put together some helpful pictures. I have the stuff we used in Wendover except for the Megasquirt , laptop, and knowledge. I have an'89 GMC that is still running so I could show what to look for at the wrecking yard and what to take. I also have a '90 Suburban that I got for a donor. I could finish pulling that harness and pare it down to the essential wires for our use. The parts I need from DYI Autotune will cost about $500. That's going to take me a while to come up with with, but maybe there is a source for detailed pictures of how the GM adapter board and MS goes together. Marc my have some. I still need a cheap laptop that will run Windows. I can tell of what I did to prep the "53 and what we did that night but the computer part is still something I haven't done yet. We'll have to work on it.

Tom,

I labelled all the wires on the harness we used, the only plug that is missing is for the electronic distributor connection ( I extended the tach wire to hook up to your coil, I have the plug here from another harness and if you PM me your mailing address I'll mail it to you.

Suggest you make a list of the wires we actually used - easy to find as they are not coiled up. The rest are for things like lock up convertor and speedo etc..

What needs to be stripped out of the stock harness are alternator, starter, and A/C compressor.

I can take some pictures of the modified GM ECM box and the GM to MS adapter board. There are like 8-10 parts to solder on.

You did a good job with the labels. I have that harness inside in a bag so they wont fade. I labeled the wires on the '90 suburban when I helped the pervious owner pull the big block, but it has been outside and the writing is gone. I'll use your labels and a wiring diagram to sort that out. I think all we used was the injector plugs, temp sensor plug, tach, a 12v switched, 12v from the battery, and two wires to the fuel pump. We didn't do the O2 or distributer. If I need that plug I can get one around here. That would be easy. I think with your pictures and mine we could cover this. I was reading some of your earlier posts that I printed and you pretty well covered it then. I understand more of it now.

I forgot to thank one of my favorite new friends from the Inliners Picnic whose name I shamefully don't remember but whose good deed I'll never forget. He's the guy who stood by with his flashlight until Vic and I got the carb back on the '53. We could probably have done it it the dark, but it would have cut deeply into our beer drinking time! Thank you! Tom

I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in and thank everyone for participating in this thread and especially at the actual Bonneville Run. WOW it is a great story to read. And someday...long after I get my 250 Six powered 65 Deuce back on the road...I may try this. So for now I will use it for reference and watch as you guys sort out the Megasquirt for me.

Thanks
james

The hardest part of a permanent install is running the fuel lines and modifying the tank. There is a bit of electrical work to alter the length of certain wires and remove circuits like starter. The tach input to the ecm needs a wire added with a ring terminal to connect to the coil - terminal (leave the orginal connector intact). This allows fuel only control which is not so hard to get going. Trying to do both fuel and spark control is tough especially if this is you first try at EFI.

I'm still working on getting a good set of pictures of all that I understand of the "magic" Marc performed at the picnic. I found a laptop on eBay that will fill the need for an MS dedicated computer. (my Mac doesn't run Windows) Shortly I will order the MS kit and get started on that. I hope as I make progress on my injected/turbo 292 project that we as a group can sort it all out and have everything posted here so that everyone interested can use what they need. I especially want for efi-diy to continue leading us through this though I'm sure it's painful. There is so much to read on the MS and DYI Autotune sites that the going is slow for me but I really am beginning to understand. The mechanical/physical part is pretty easy. It's the mystical/electrical stuff that worries me!

About 18 to 24 months ago I wrote an article on efi on this board that explained the basics, well I wonder if our web master could find it and post it again. This was before the board crashed.

We didn't lose any posts when the board went down. You can do a search from each forum main page back a year, or you can do a manual search all the way back. The Hi Performance forum has 91 pages available, starting in 2002.

'Manual Search'? As in one page at a time?

If you are looking for a specific article as Marc is, and know the approximate date it should be rather easy. Otherwise, yep, it would be 'one page at a time'.

I figured, had to check though.

Thanks.

In a thread I started almost a year ago there is a lot of information Marc shared. There are also links to more info from Marc and Tom( tlowe ). I don't know how to post a link but the heading was," 4 piles into 1". I need to up date that thread because it is progressing slowly, and that is where I'm putting what I'm learning from Marc to work.

The easiest way to make a topic accessible is to keep it active. Just find it,make a post, and it will bump to the front.

OK

Here is a link to what I've done so far on pictures for the conversion. I'm not so good at this. I can tell I'll have to redo some. I'm going to hook it all up again to take pictures because that night I wasn't able to get the shots we need. I took pictures today under the hood of my '89 GMC so we'll know what they look like in the wrecking yard. I'll get more detailed shots of the harness we used and I'll trim down the one from the '90 Suburban to just what is needed. There will be lots of pix but you'll just have to look at what you need.

http://picasaweb.google.com/sixpics/TBIConversionPix?authkey=qLVUS4w3RaE#

I pulled the ECM and harness from the Suburban today and will begin the cutting soon. It's sort of a mess because someone put a carb on it and they messed with some of the wires. I'll use the one I got from Marc and a diagram from a book to sort it out so we have just enough to run fuel and spark with a MS.

Looks nice so far, who made your tank?

I borrowed that from a friend just for the conversion. He has two of them. He is still a friend because I returned it. I don't know where He got them but they are nice and he is proud of them. I'm not quite ready to lose him as a friend yet,not until I can get ahold of both of them!

Hi all, I wuz gone for a month, come back, and all these posts I missed!

I wasn't screwin' off though -- I got the Howell 258ci TBI conversion kit stuffed into my 1963 Rambler Classic wagon. I got the kit for very cheap from a generous fellow AMCer who bought it for a project two years ago that never materialized.

Project is here, with photos:

http://wps.com/AMC/1963-Rambler-Classic-550-Cross-Country/Howell-TBI/index.html


The wagon has a 1970 AMC 232ci in it, which had been 100% LPG until July this year. Built it in 1988. Rings are still excellent, but the valves were recessed, a bit burned and leaking. 20 years, can't complain!

This spring/summer I switched "back" to gasoline and stuck an old Carter YF over the hole where the Impco CA125 was (original iron manifold.)

In August I pulled the head and had the local shop do a stock valve job. I'd collected the "modern" parts that the Howell kit wants (and any sensible AMC six wants :-) the 81-up aluminum intake and exhaust, etc. It's got a BBD base...

With the new head I jumped into the TBI kit. It all bolted on without hacking at it (since the engine determines the harness layout it was fine.

It started right up with one problem (return line hose bend had pinched over time) and for now, I'm driving it with the totally wrong (rich) maps for the Jeep 258.

I made an "adjustable MAP" jobbie and that helped a lot, though of course it's a crock. 2mpg is 2mpg though and plugs are beige not chocolate!

I'm buying Moates' AutoPROM kit and will tune this sucker up ASAP.

Next I plan on doing my 63 Rambler AMerican (with the old Nash-can 195.6 OHV motor) out of junkyard parts.

Both of these motors, mileage is the goal, they're my daily drivers and the wagon is the work horse (trekked up to Burning Man in the Nevada desert with it, hauling three people and a trailer load of crap for a week, 1300 miles).

I'm working up to having the knowledge to built up the Navarro turbo Rambler six, which will be port injection and all custom and performance, not mileage!

Anyone have any experience with the Moates AutoPROM? This is for a GM ECM 1227747, a pre-OBD1 TBI computer....

Looks pretty good! How's it going now? (The rest of the wiring etc in your truck is pretty neat, I'm sure the TBI will end up as neat as possible).

One photo is labelled "megasquirt" though that looks like a GM ECM... ?

Tom, I got a bunch of pictures I'm trying to put labels on of my '89 GMC before I tear it apart. They are mainly to help identify what you need from the wrecking yard. My TBi set up will end up in a '68 1 ton flatbed. I'm trying to sort out the wiring from it and the harness I took from a '90 Suburban to see how much I need of each and what can go away. There are several projects going on here now along with getting ready for winter,so it's not moving fast.
Your project is really cool and your post is great! Keep us informed of how it's working. What fuel pump is that? Thanks, Tom Too

Tom,

On your 68 1 ton does the fuel pickup go in through the top of the tank with the gage sender and use a rotating ring to compress the Oring seal? If so find a simular depth tank out of a later model GM - bet it'll bolt in and you got an instant in tank pump conversion with the correct GM fittings to run the line upto the TBI..
Marc

It does have that type of rotating ring. I've been thinking about using either the '89 pickup or the '90 Suburban tank. I haven't done any real measuring yet, but there is quite a bit of room under the flat bed. I'll have all those fuel lines and wires to use. Should I be planning on an in tank or external inline pump? You mentioned using BBC injectors and a 255 LPH pump. The Suburban had a 454 BBC. Would that pump be big enough? Thanks, Tom

Good! I hope to be doing just that in a couple months! I work at a university and the next quarter (through 1 Jan) will be most busy. But I'll be reading and lurking.



I'll have to go dig out the manual, I left it at work! I think it has more info than Howell's webpage, which is at http://www.howellefi.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=16146&cat=0


Yeah, it was a neat install. I can't even hear it run. No way I'm farting around with in-tank pumps on my old cars.

Though I think I need to look at retrofitting new-fangled filler necks, it's getting really tough to fill my cars from California vapor-collecting nozzles. It's a huge hassle every fillup.

I spent an hour or so this afternoon trying to pare down the '90 Suburban wire harness using the one Marc and I used in Wendover as a guide. They don't exactly match in color and the Burb had been modified for a carb. I'll use the diagrams in the manual tomorrow as well and get it down to just what is needed. The two harnesses took up the whole 8' of the flatbed. I need some good label too. Thanks Marc for marking yours so well. I'd really be lost. I've still got the running '89 pickup to look at too.

Beater....

If you keep the '89 running you will have a known running vehicle to hook up your MS to and try tuning with - just unhook the reference timing connector so the dist. stays at base timing. Maybe set the base timing at 15* BTDC (use your timing light and turn the dist. just like any other non-efi motor) - remember to set it back when you want to control the timing using the GM ECM.

This way you only have the fuel tune up to do.

That is a good idea! You know, I would not have thought of it. The truck has several issues and I won't drive it on the road any more, but it runs well. I could get a lot of practice before I tear it apart. Also reference for the other two harnesses. Thanks, Beater

I spent all day parring down the Suburban harness. I made a few mistakes but they are fixable. I think this harness won't actually be used. Someone had put a carb in place of the TBI. They messed with the the wiring more than I thought. I'm doing a presentation at our chapter meeting Saturday and it will be good enough to give an idea of what to keep. I'm still working on pictures and will post more soon.

Here are pictures I took of my donor '89 GMC to show what you need to get at the junk yard. Marc and I only ran the fuel side at Wendover. I'm not totally sure how much of the ignition stuff would be used in a full conversion. The plan here is to either find an '81 California Distributor or an MSD. Any way here's what I've got to this point. Tom

http://picasaweb.google.com/sixpics/TBIConversion2Donor?authkey=X_GdWbfK4XM#

you can buy the 81 calif dist all day long at any auto parts store. they will have to order it and then turn in any old hei for the core. tom

Tom

You should grab the alternator also, its got enough oomph to keep up with the efi and fuel pump... also ties in nicely via the engine harness

Pretty thourough.

+1 on the alternator.

OK, on the alternator. Too bad I pulled that wiring from the Burb harness but that's no "biggie" I made a couple of mistakes there. I't good to have stuff to practice on. I practiced on my local chapter today with a little show and tell of the Conversion and what I've gathered so far. There is some interest. There will be more when I complete one. Thanks guys for the help.

You'll be the local efi guy soon enough..

I'll be your Northern Nevada Rep. You tha "MAN"!

There is a lot of really good information here, dig around the support link. Check the installation video under GSE ...

They cover all the basics. And their TBI harness is reasonably priced at $265 made to order. If you don't want to mess with a stock GM harness this is a good option.


http://www.affordable-fuel-injection.com/faq.php

I'm bringing this back so I can try to restore the pictures and help me refresh my memory while building the 292 for my flat bed. I'll try to add the demo at Bonneville and the Prep and Donor photos. Thank you Google/Picasa!