Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine)

Posted by: efi-diy

Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/03/11 06:56 PM

A few pix from another site..

54 chevy before the old iron came out..

another pre-removal shot...


Now lets jump 50 years ....

front view...

Its still an inline!
Posted by: Beater of the Pack

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/04/11 08:32 AM

That is going to fill the engine compartment. He may not be able to fit any paint in. Glad to see he is upgrading the brakes. He'll need them.
Posted by: efi-diy

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/04/11 11:39 AM

To bad we can't run polls on this forum... I'm curious..

So how many of you think he should have used a 235/261?

Or how may think a 250/292 would have been better

Or agree with using the 4200?
Posted by: Nexxussian

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/04/11 12:52 PM

RUN THE TWIN CAM, he shouts from the peanut gallery. \:D
Posted by: jalopy45 #4899

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/04/11 01:12 PM

Personal preference, otherwise we'd all drive fords or yugos. Myself, I thing a Pontiac OHC would be more interesting, but they are all good.
Posted by: mike 53-210

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/04/11 05:19 PM

Is there anyway to follow the build? I also have a 54 Sedan with a 4200 waiting.
Posted by: bristowbob

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/04/11 10:25 PM

Check trailvoy.com. Search for engine swaps. You'll find it there.
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/05/11 05:48 AM

 Originally Posted By: jalopy45 #4899
Personal preference, otherwise we'd all drive fords ...


I'd have used a Ford 300...
Posted by: SCRAPIRON, #4711

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/05/11 11:03 AM

I wold love a 4200 if you could lock the cam down and add dist. and carb. Just to old and to poor to work out and pay for all the fuel injection stuff,,,JERRY
Posted by: Nexxussian

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/05/11 11:26 AM

Joe, it's been done.

If you want to do that "on the cheap" you could make a factory distributor belt drive and drive it off the crank at half speed.

For carbs, someone was selling an intake to take Webbers (or similar side drafts).

I'm sure some resourceful soul could make a multi pot downdraft manifold as a one off, but I don't know how well it would work.

As I recall efi-diy locked his exhaust cam with parts from an intake cam drive, I also seem to recall it's somewhat more developed now. ;\)
Posted by: efi-diy

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/05/11 03:17 PM

 Originally Posted By: SCRAPIRON, #4711
I wold love a 4200 if you could lock the cam down and add dist. and carb. Just to old and to poor to work out and pay for all the fuel injection stuff,,,JERRY


Jerry Weigt has a 4200 with a distributor added. Sure he could make a bunch of conversion kits.

If you can weld then an 1 off intake should not be to difficult given time to work on it.

Either leave the cam alone or hook the solenoid to a hobbs switch... under load have it move the cam. It'll run ok with out doing anything with the cam.
Posted by: SCRAPIRON, #4711

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/05/11 05:13 PM

Now you talking...A local junk yard has a early 4200 for $425..I think I read the later ones are better ??
Posted by: Nexxussian

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/05/11 11:55 PM

Yes, but if you are just looking for a runner, as opposed to max performance, it shouldn't matter.

Being salvage, used, it is like any other engine though, it's best if you can "hear it run" first.

For that price, I expect they won't have it ready to do that. \:\(

Seems a very reasonable price though if you want to run it mechanically. \:\)
Posted by: efi-diy

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/06/11 09:56 AM

 Originally Posted By: Nexxussian
Yes, but if you are just looking for a runner, as opposed to max performance, it shouldn't matter.



X2 the early motor will do just fine as a runner.

BTW to do ignition control with out a dist. cost would be about $300. connections are:

+12 ign sw
gnd

coils x 6

crank trigger x 2

map sensor x 3 (or 1 vacumm hose)

If you went with a carb - leave the injectiors/fuel rail in place to plug the holes in the head.

EFI
Posted by: efi-diy

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/06/11 11:19 AM

 Originally Posted By: SCRAPIRON, #4711

I wold love a 4200 if you could lock the cam down and add dist. and carb. Just to old and to poor to work out and pay for all the fuel injection stuff,,,JERRY

Jerry Weigt has a 4200 with a distributor added. Sure he could make a bunch of conversion kits.



Now you talking...A local junk yard has a early 4200 for $425..I think I read the later ones are better ??


So what would you want to run for a carb?
Posted by: SCRAPIRON, #4711

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/06/11 12:46 PM

I would hope I could run a 4V of some kind. I have 3 or 4 good 600 Hollys also a 500 Holly Ecomoziser that I have used on a number of 283/327/350 V things that has worked out real good. Do you have a web page on the rear sump oil pan yet?? Will the 4200 mate up to the older th350/th400/200r4/700r4 transmission.I guess the starter would be another issue also.. I know all this has been hashed over on thas board but, I just didn't pay attention at the time..!! Jerry
Posted by: Harry 6674 II 5760

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/06/11 01:40 PM

A Mega SquirtII kit is about $250.00 and MSIII is about $375.00 in kit form. May be cheaper than carb conversion and more tuneable. Win win.
Posted by: efi-diy

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/06/11 05:02 PM

I know a hogan type sheetmetal intake is pricey like $2500.

So what are the alternatives for a home brew carb intake?

For a bone stock engine - the GM electroncs does a good job. Limequat has a wiring sheet how to wire in the GM electronics to an older vehicle. 2 items to think of here 1) the pcm needs to have a bunch of stuff turned off by someone who has HP tuners box, and the drive by wire gas pedal must be used. The same PCM also runs the 4L60E tranmission.

A TH350/400/700 bolts up using an adapter plate and a t/c made for a mid engine mounting plate (the ears and hub have to be extended the same amount as the thichness of the adapter plate. I'm close to doing this for a 4L80E. I'll take pix as I go.
Posted by: efi-diy

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/06/11 07:51 PM

 Originally Posted By: SCRAPIRON, #4711
Do you have a web page on the rear sump oil pan yet?? Jerry


oil pan
Posted by: limequat

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/07/11 06:35 AM


The exhaust cam will default to straight up if no signal is delivered to the phaser.
My solenoid was sticky when I first completed my swap. The difference between phasing and no phasing is notable.
Posted by: limequat

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/07/11 06:40 AM

I assume everyone has seen these pics?









I think the factory setup just makes too much sense to ditch, but there is something undeniably awesome about an old school setup.
Posted by: efi-diy

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/07/11 08:14 AM

Limequat

Can you post your wire sheet up for retro fit wiring - maybe it'll take some agnst away.
Posted by: limequat

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/07/11 02:03 PM


Trying a new hosting service. Try this:

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/2499810/...pm-1-9-meg?da=y
Posted by: efi-diy

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/07/11 10:13 PM

Jerry,

Here the trade offs that you would need to consider:

Carb install

1) fab an intake manifold
2) install an electric fuel pump (4200's never came with a mech pump)
3) for a TH350 etc. get an adapter plate/mid engine plate T/C
4) mod the trans to accept the starter nose.
5) get a dist. install kit from Jerry W.

The rest is common to an efi install e.g. engine mounts, rad, PS hookups etc.

EFI install using GM electronics & stock 4L60E

1) get the engine, gm harness, PCM, transmission
2) send the PCM to someone like limequat who has HP tuners box and get it modified
3) wire in the harness to your vehicle
4) run a EFI feed and return lines to/from your tank
5) install an EFI fuel pump and fuel pressure reg.
6) get a conversion box to drive your speedo (4L60E never came with mech speedo drive).
7) install the drive by wire gas pedal.

The rest is the same as a carb install.

So which way would you go?
Posted by: limequat

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/08/11 06:03 AM


If there is interest, I would consider offering a stand-alone wiring/flash kit. Something like, you send a harness and PCM, I'll send you back a flashed PCM and a harness with vehicles hookups broken out and labeled.
Posted by: copo-rat

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/08/11 02:38 PM

WOW, that would take some serious headache out of the equation for someone!
That's an awesome offer Lime!
I'll have to remember that.
Posted by: efi-diy

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/08/11 04:45 PM

Missed 1 item - for EFI you must run a late model alternator - it comes with the 4200 so its a no brainer.

Would there be any interest in a u-fab engine mount kit with the engine plates ready to bolt on tubing and ears to fit over a '70-'80's frame cushion (engine mount)? Cut/weld the tubing to the plates & ears.

With the wiring and PCM out of the way the hardest part is running the fuel lines.
Posted by: limequat

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/09/11 06:29 AM


EFI, what about prefabbed mounts that converted over to 230/250 style mounts. That'd make it bolt-in for a good portion of the folk here.
Posted by: bristowbob

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/09/11 08:54 AM

Amen to the motor mounts.
Posted by: efi-diy

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/09/11 11:03 AM

 Originally Posted By: limequat

EFI, what about prefabbed mounts that converted over to 230/250 style mounts. That'd make it bolt-in for a good portion of the folk here.


Sure could look at it. I'll start a new thread to gather info.
Posted by: efi-diy

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/10/11 09:10 PM

 Originally Posted By: Beater of the Pack
That is going to fill the engine compartment. He may not be able to fit any paint in. Glad to see he is upgrading the brakes. He'll need them.


Yep it would be scary on the old brakes/steering. What surprises me is the same generation that designed the P-51 etc. build brakes systems that were grossly under rated. 6000# of Buick on 10 x 1 1/2" brakes
Posted by: Beater of the Pack

Re: Another 4200 swap in progress (not mine) - 01/11/11 08:40 AM

We feel safe in our big old steel cars until we see some of those vintage photos of the horrific crashes of the time.