Like the subject line says, I'm just getting started here. Been a fan of big sixes since the mid seventies watching Cotton Perry run the Pocket Rocket Nova in NHRA Modified Production.

What brought me here , however, is my recent acquisition of a rat rod with a 153 cid Chevy engine for power. The li'l feller just seemed to beg me to take him home and raise him proper. It's a '28 A Model/'24 Dodge coupe and had a powerglide and an old Jeep pickup third member when I got it. I had a good 700R4 and a friend gave me a disassembled 9" Ford rear end with a 300:1 gear that was nasty but mechanically perfect.

A year later, (I was down for a while with a severely damaged rotator cuff injury and surgery to correct it) I have a good running little ride that could use some beefing up in the power plant area. I've fabricated a good header and a 4 bbl intake with a 390 NASCAR Holley carb. It runs smoothly and idles well. Now I've picked up a second cylinder head that I plan to build with lump ports, bigger valves, roller rockers, good springs, screw in studs, and some professional porting. When the summer season is over I'll rebuild the short block with forged pistons, a 181 crankshaft, and longer rods.

What I REALLY NEED is a source for a roller cam!! I'm wanting to build this thing with a hydraulic roller cam. I can't find anyone with a roller core that I can have ground!!

I'm also needing to know how to post pics here.

Thanks!!

A few years ago I was still able to get a roller cam for my 153 from ISKY. Have you tried them?

Yeah! I spoke to Ron and he said all he had left was one with over .600 lift and really a radical grind. Comp will grind me one if I can come up with a billet core.

[/quote]Comp will grind me one if I can come up with a billet core. [/quote]

It'll cost a lot more to get them to finish grind it than you could buy the one from Isky for already finished, then you still have to buy the billet. Too bad Isky can't just regrind it for you.

Am I missing something? Why not just have ISKY regrind the cam they have? With that radical a grind now, there should be plenty of meat to take off to get what you want.

I asked about that. He told me that to get to where we needed to be, it would have to be heat treated again and would likely warp beyond tolerances.

I'm not giving up yet. Bullet is checking.

Nice talking with you the other day. Bet that light car runs good with 153 power.
For pictures, you have to put the pics in a photo hosting site like imageshack, photobucket, shutterfly to name a few.
Then you get the code for your pic and post it here. Copy and drag/ paste.
4 cyl VC I am working on.

Thanks, Tom! The pleasure was all mine. I'm liable to be in the market for one of those valve covers when I get the new head done and I'm down to installation.

The li'l feller runs pretty well around town and on the back roads. It's a little anemic when I'm on the interstate and running in high gear and the TCC is engaged. I know the rear gear is tall, but some added horsepower would fix that and increase fuel mileage as well. It wants to downshift on long grades and hills.

These were rated at 90 to 100 HP when released back in the early sixties. My combo is around 110 to 120 by all indications, (the engine is un-rebuilt but fairly sound). I've done some serious tuning and the carb and ignition were professionally built and tuned.

I'm figuring it at around 170 cid when finished and the engine work and new pieces should render 1.2 to 1.25 hp per cubic inch with the proper camshaft. It could do 1.5 if I used a radical solid roller and higher, (requiring racing fuel) compression pistons and more radical head work. I'm looking for small stock V8/Hi Po V6 performance and I know it's there to be had. 190 to 210 hp should be obtainable and be reliable as well!

Help from folks like you will get me there.

I've been down this road that you're on about a year ago. No one, repeat, NO ONE, makes a hydraulic roller cam for an inline six cylinder motor. If I were in your shoes and wanted to make that kind of HP from a 153, I'd think real seriously about putting a turbo on it instead of tweaking everything to the absolute limits of reliability. With the figures you're talking about, a normally aspirated engine is going to be right on the ragged edge of self destruction, even with all heavy duty components in it.

This is just my opinion, so feel free to take it with however many grains of salt you prefer. Whichever way you go with it, it sounds like a really interesting project.

Oh, yeah, and welcome to the Bulletin Board.

I appreciate your input, but I've already started up the trail. Having been around, and working on, other similar projects I'm not too concerned about reliability in this instance. The parts are available, (except apparently the camshaft) to build a durable, powerful 4 cylinder engine out of one of these. The little engine has few weak spots structurally and there are other weaker examples out there that work and live well in the range I'm aiming for. I've see one of these taken to astronomical limits and live. He made almost two and a half HP per cubic inch, normally aspirated, with a flat tappet cam!! I haven't seen the guy in years, but I've seen him mentioned.

I have nothing against turbos and positive displacement superchargers. It's just not the direction I want to go.

I have a cam grinder that will make me what I want and there are two companies that will make me a round lobe core. Either one of these suppliers just want a LOT of money for a one off!! I'm trying to avoid having to spend that much, but I probably will.

I guess you must have missed the discussion thread here several years back where I made a half a dozen billet round lobe roller cam blanks to get ground as hydraulic rollers. If the demand warrants it again i'll do it over. The 4 cylinders as well.

Yeah! I saw that, as you know. Any time you decide to make another run of those, I'm down for a 4 cylinder unit!!

The introduction of the hydraulic roller cam system has increased the lifespan and power/drivability of several other engine designs. The old LT1 small block Chevrolet and the later Vortec big blocks are two vivid examples. There was an immediate leap in available horsepower and drivability and overall durability increased exponentially at the same time. Electronic fuel management and ignition control would explain some of this, but the mechanical, (actual physical durability) can't be explained away by those other items. The later 3.0 industrial engines and the Mercruiser versions with EFI only make 130 to 140 HP, so the power gains aren't being produced there.

Whether coincidental or causal, there is reason enough to explore the potential of the roller cam system..

Yeah, that's one reason I wanted to explore the hydraulic roller aspect of this for the 6 cylinders was for longevity. As the removal of needed additives in our oils is a sign of further attempts to rid our roads of older vehicles, its either adapt with the times or these older vehicles will be destined to museums instead of being enjoyed on the streets.

I'm glad you commented Scott. After our conversations and MUCH research here and cam specialists, we ended up with a Crower roller core for our 292. The parts are out there.

OP, Try Crower or Schneider Racing for cores. If you don't have any luck there try Andrews or LSM for cores. They are parent companies producing cores. Hopefully, that's not divulging to many secrets.

Yes, Crower and Isky would be my first choices, Crane has also gotten back in the game for being able to make roller cam billets. I spoke to LSM back when I first wanted to offer them, but they wanted $700 per blank for an order of 10 or more, so they quickly got removed from my list, so I made them myself. Comp wanted almost that much just to finish grind a round lobe blank, so they quickly got removed from my list as a source to provide that service.

I had already spoken to Crower, Schneider, Isky, and Crane before I found out for sure that the six cylinder billet was the same as the four for as far as it goes. I had a good conversation with the folks a Schneider, but they didn't have a core and were uncertain of the compatibility with the six cylinder blank.

I'll be retracing my steps in the next couple of weeks. Both Comp and Isky said they could grind one from a round lobe and Comp has the hydraulic profile I'd most like to use.

My brother has an R&D connection with Comp as well. In this case I'd be calling in a favor. It might save me a buck or two if I can get it done.

Between all of us, SURELY we can come up with something!!

The problem with most cam companies is that only a few have the ability to make the billets in-house. Crower, Isky and Crane have this ability, while the other cam companies like Comp, Schneider, Clay Smith, Reed, Lunati, Ultradyne and all the others can only finish grind the cores once they are provided to them by you or from a supplier. So that goes back to having a blank cam core to provide them to be able to grind it. I went from A to Z back when Crane folded up and found a lot of this out, some of it I already knew from my years being affiliated with Crower and Crane and a few others. But what it really showed me was how few cam companies really had this ability to do it, and most of these other cam companies are just grinders/regrinders.

I don't figure the hydraulic roller cam will revive the 230/250/292 as far as a big time splash in the hot rodding scene. It COULD do wonders over in the marine and industrial power plant sector. As you pointed out, with the oncoming scarcity of lubricants suitable for flat tappet valve trains, new technology will be needed even in those segments.

The old Gen. 1 and Gen. 2 small blocks are benefiting hugely with the introduction of aftermarket hydraulic rollers, both as updates for the street aftermarket AND for the marine market as well!!

Years ago, I watched a certain 292 powered '67 Chevy II 2 door post become one of the most dreaded cars at dragstrips all over the country. I watched it outrun V8 cars many classes above it week after week, year after year!! NHRA finally just eliminated the whole Modified Production class because they couldn't keep up with the science that made 'em run!! The man, and his partner both affirmed that the camshaft research is what put that thing over the top!!

That's true! They were first for many years in Modified Production and then later in Comp Eliminator while everyone else that ran Chevy 6 cylinders was trying to keep up. The camshaft and cylinder head was where they were light years ahead of all of their competitors. Another thing that was ironic is that Kay Sissell has always been credited with the "lump" concept, yet he spent his whole life trying to catch up with Headrick's level and never could.

Wouldn't you just love to get a look at one of those old heads??

Sadly, Headrick passed away a few years ago. I would have enjoyed picking HIS brain!!

I've got several! I worked for him for 15 years, everyday was like an education in "state of the art".

Mike Kirby is also a great resource. I had probably an hour or more long phone call with him. When I told him what I wanted to do, he informed me it wasn't really new, just that there weren't many wanting to do it because of the expense.

Hey, Scott!! Did Headrick work on the Ford 300s that Cotton ran after MP was killed?

I recall seeing Cotton at Indy in the late eighties campaigning a dragster with a 6 cylinder Ford. I didn't get a chance to talk to him, so I don't know if it was his car or if he was just a hired driver.

No, Jim always only raced Chevy's, Cotton drove a rear engine dragster for Brian Browell from 1983-1988 in Comp Eliminator after Modified Production was axed by NHRA. It was powered by the 292 engine out of the "Pocket Rocket", and he won many Comp Eliminator national championships and set a lot of records with that dragster. There's also a couple of pics of it in Leo's book. I went to Indy with him and Jim several times myself in that time period. Their fiercest competitor was a Ford Inline, but neither Cotton or Jim ever raced or built one personally.

I'm probably mistaken about the Ford dragster. We all looked rather incredulous when the announcer said Cotton was driving a Ford, but like I said, I didn't get to talk to him that year. We were over in the SS pits with Jimmy Bridges and Alan Oakley. Oakley had just bought the Maranian Brothers' SS/DA Camaro.

I actually pitted for Brian Browell once at Memphis. Tom Polk and I were wandering around in the pits and Brian grabbed both of us and hung aprons on us. He was running a V6 at the time. Small world. Polk bought Brian's backup car that next year.

Speaking again of the "Pocket Rocket". I have a good friend who says he knows where the car is. I'll probably be seeing him tomorrow. I know now that Cotton was recently looking for it, so I'll see if I can nail down it's location.

Were you at Indy the year Cotton won SS in Jim Danuel's Nova and runner upped in Comp?

As I recall, they penciled Cotton after the first qualifying pass in the 'Rocket" and he went back out and ran another couple of tenths under on the next pass.

I went with them to Indy my first time in 1986 after he already was already driving for Browell, so it was after the "Pocket Rocket" days and his other driving gigs. Darren Davis bought the "Pocket Rocket" from Cotton in about 1984-85 and he told me he sold it to Todd Patterson a few years afterward, but after speaking to Todd about a year ago, he said that he actually bought another race car from Darren and not the "Pocket Rocket". I told Cotton this and we were both confused on how this person didn't remember correctly how someone couldn't remember who they sold such a famous and iconic car to. We concluded it was a cover story because it contradicted the reason Darren said they were buying the car to begin with.

I'll see my source tomorrow. He says he's sure that the car he's speaking of is the "Pocket Rocket". If I get the answers I'm seeking, I'll PM you with the details. I know Cotton wants the car. If the story is correct, it shouldn't be "public knowledge" until he can confirm or deny it's the one.

When Cotton sold the car, it was stripped of all its "Pocket Rocket" paint job and painted black and anything that could identify it as such was removed before Darren bought it, so it would be difficult for anyone to say for sure it is. Jim wanted it that way because he didn't want anyone riding on him or Cotton's coat tails and saying this was the ex-Perry & Headrick anything. They did this to all their previous Chevy II race cars as well. Jim was funny that way.

What ever happened to Jim Danuel?

He had some issues during the late 80's and 90's, but I wasn't that close to him to really know how it worked out for him.

You're right, I did miss that. I was off of the Bulletin Boards for the last few years, so there were a lot of things that went by that I didn't see. I've thought for some time that if you could grind the taper off of flat tappet cam lobes and reharden the lobe surface, you could use hydraulic rollers. Or as you did, grind a billet camshaft for use with hydraulic rollers. I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who has some interest in that area.

See there, Scott?? Not all of 'em are stuck in the past!!!

I'm tellin' ya'!! Hydraulic roller cams are the way to GO!!





Yeah!! I know....... STILL preaching' to the choir

My head builder called today. The 153 head is done!! New studs, guide plates, Perfect Circle valve seals, stainless valves, new keepers, stainless retainers, new springs set to proper height and tension, lumps installed, and a good street port job. The lumps are the newer Max Flow variety.

Intakes flow 163 at .200, 190 at .300, 220 at .400, and 265 at .500.

Exhausts were 120 at .200 and 210 at .500. He called me on the phone to give me the numbers and I don't remember the exhaust numbers for .300 and .400.

He also gave me numbers for .600, but I was too stoked already and can't remember them!!

He always does some extra stuff like cleaning up the oil return passages and cleaning up all of the excess flashing. He hadn't ever done a set of lumps and he was tickled with the results!! Bridges Machine is the place to go in the Nashville area. I've never been disappointed with Jimmy's work and his help Chris is top shelf too!!

Great results! Must be 1.94 intakes. Did he take much off by surfacing?

Actually, they're 1.84s !! I was amazed!! They took off .035". He did some extra work on the roofs of the ports and around the bolt boss on the center two exhausts. They also cleaned up around the guide bosses and worked the humps to blend them in well.

He did a pair of cast iron RHS Small Block Vortec heads for me a year or so ago and I sat around while he and Chris put them on and took them off of the flow bench repeatedly until he was sure he'd gotten everything he wanted out of them.

One of the things we discovered was that the smaller intake valve was much less shrouded at the sides of the chambers and against the cylinder walls. His usual rate for flow bench work is around $95.00 an hour. In my case, we're old friends and I just caught him with a project that intrigued him. They played with those Vortec small block heads for days when they discovered how well they flowed out of the box.

Tom! Do you have the 4Banger valve cover in production yet? From what I can see, I'm probably gonna' need one. Gonna' need to talk to you about roller rockers too.

Maybe have the 4cyl vc at foundry for first castings mid July.
That little 4 cyl is going to cook!

Like I said in the OP, I was hoping for 200+ HP, but I decided to go for a little more drivability and much more durability. I still plan to eventually go with a hydraulic roller, but in the meantime I found the numbers and parts I wanted to build on.

I noticed you have a Ross piston and we've already talked about the Scat rods. Wouldja' sell 'em in units of four?

AAAAHHH!! I'll give you a call sometime first of the week!!

Picked up a 181 crank yesterday for $115.00 delivered. I haven't decided yet whether to just have it turned and use the .350" stroke or have it offset ground and get .400".

I talked to Tom at 12bolt Monday and he's gonna' work me up some prices on rockers, pistons, and rods so's I know how much to save up. He had some important input on my selection on rocker arms.

If this was a Chevrolet V8 I'd know my selections already. This little 4banger has become a very educational experience so far.

I received the crankshaft for the 4banger today. I'm pleased with the condition. You never know how an evil-bay purchase will work out. I'm planning on replacing the timing gears. I just feel like a new build deserves new ones.

Like I mentioned before, if this was a V8, I'd already know what setup I was going to use. In this instance, I'm wondering what the consensus is on the best gear set to use. I figure Tom will chime in here and maybe some of the rest of you as well.

By far, the multi-keyway Cloyes is the best option. Stay away from the fiber gear timing sets.

I know Cloyes is good stuff. I'll check it out!!

Thanks, Scott!!

Sure, no problem!

Do you like the aluminum cam gear or the iron gear better??

If I were building a race engine i'd use the aluminum gear.

The cloyes set is the nicest one. Kind of a waste of money getting the multiple keyed one. Even when you degree in the cam . Most times they are right on.
On the crank gear. Always drill the gear with 2 holes opposite of each other for later removal with a puller.
Also , drill the crank for a damper bolt.

anyone recommend removing weight from the huge counter weights on these crankshafts?? and the usual deburing, to try and tame the lumpy idle on the little bastards,,,
or would that take away the low end torque that was designed into them?

It is a trade off, and that can be a downside. The heavier mass actual helps dampen it, lighten the crank will make it worse. Works good for circle track to make the revs zip when coming off the turns or drag racing though.

I thought about knife-edging the crank on this project and going for better windage and a lighter rotating assembly. My machinist is a wizard at balancing and could easily take care of the re-balance, but I'm really not planning doing any racing with this unit.

I figure I can use the extra kinetic energy from the larger mass to move the car at low speeds and from a standstill.

I saw an intake manifold like the one I built for this engine on Bombshell Betty, the '52 Buick with the straight eight. It's a Bonneville world record holder. Maybe I'm on the right track!!

Hey, TOM!! I'm planning to come up and see you toward the first weekend in August. I have friends over in Colfax, so I'm knocking out two birds with one toss of the rock!!

Let me know if that fits your schedule.

So!! I took the current iteration of my inline 4 banger on a trip last week. 250 miles each way and no major problems. It ran a little hot on long grades in the heat of the day, (temps approaching 100 degrees) but otherwise performed well.

I'm figuring an oil cooler will fix the problem. I've installed them on trucks that had issues while towing big loads and the resulting drop in coolant temps were as much as thirty percent. One truck in particular went from running 240 to a cool 160. We had to install a 205 degree thermostat to get temps back into operating range.

I'm not towing and it only runs hot at high speeds. I'm thinking that the airflow to the radiator, it's in the trunk under a louvered trunk lid, is being diminished from the aerodynamics under the car at speed. The oil cooler will be placed in the wind stream at the front of the car where it'll work best when the car is at speed.

Anyway!! You should see the looks when I go around some fancy late model with a V8 or V6 engine driving that little 4 banger out in the open and squalling through the header!!

I'd like to see some pictures. This sound like a fun ride.

I gotta' figure out how to post photos here!!

Here is where I learned to post pictures. LINK It works the same way here. First you have to have an account with Picasa or one of the other net hosting outfits. If all else fails email them to me and I'll post them for you. asixrow@hughes.net

This is a test! If it works, this is a picture of Lockjaw, my 4 banger rat rod.

[img]http://s300.photobucket.com/user/roehric...?sort=3&o=8[/img]

This is a photo from earlier this year. There's a lot of stuff in that album showing parts and steps in the project.

Post deleted.

[img]http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/...~original[/img]

We've decided to have the new crank offset ground. It will produce a stroke of roughly 3.660". I plan on putting the crank in the machine shop when I get back from my extended vacation.

Looks like displacement will be right at 175 cid. At 1.25 hp per cubic inch that would be almost 219 hp. I figure to be a little below that at first, but it's a reasonable expectation when I get the combination refined and get it all tuned correctly.

What crank are you using. My numbers with with a 181 crank and rods in a .040" over 153 block come to 174.8 ci. That is a 3.60 stroke. All off the shelf parts. Well the pistons are off of tlowe's shelf. I'll try to get the short block assembled this week so I know I'. not just blowing smoke here,

We're using the 181 crank with the two piece seal. The machine shop will regrind the rod journals to 1.980", offset to the outside radius. That's a 2" journal minus .020". That moves the journal centerline out and create a 3.655 stroke, (approximately). With a bore of 3.905", (+.030") that works out to 175.10 cid.

I'm planning on using a forged flat top piston and a 6" Scat H-beam rod. Ross has the piston I'm looking at. It's designed for turbo or nitrous and with zero deck height will produce a compression ratio of right at 9.5:1. I understand from tlowe that he has most of what I plan to use and I've been in contact with him.

DO let me know how your build works out. It'll be late fall before I finish the rebuild on mine. I'm having too much fun driving it with the stock setup to pull it down now. I appreciate all of your input and any info you are willing to share.

That seams like a lot of work to gain .20 ci over what I did. I don't see that the .055 increase in stroke is worth the extra cost unless it helps get to zero deck. I really need to put mine together for real. I bought several sets of pistons that had a stated compression height that was was wrong. I read later that when replacement oversized pistons are made the CH is lowered to offset the rise in compression gained from the over bore. The Ross pistons I got from Tom should have, by my measurements, stuck out above the deck but they don't. At least in the mockup they didn't. I'll try to get them in soon so we have something real to look at.

I was gonna' leave it stock stroke, but it needed ground anyway and I have a couple of favors owed me. My head specialist has the connections and as they say, "Because I could!"

I really didn't have a target displacement. Jimmy, my head builder, wanted to go .030" on top of the initial offset grind, but it'll clean up at .020 and I'm a little conservative. I AM going with a slightly smaller bore. I guess my Harley person came out. "Stroke it!!" was the answer to any rebuild of the old V-Twins in my world.

This way, I've got a little meat left on the crank and some cylinder wall left too.

Sounds reasonable to me. The best way is not always the way that presents itself and we are left to answer "OK, Where do we go from here?" I'm going to be about 6" short of a 181 at half the cost of a stock one with no easy manifold fixes. At least not easy for me to fix. Owed favors are a great resource!

I built that "Tunnel Ram" that's on mine. It took me three days to weld up the header, intake tubes and plenum. I probably could have done it a little quicker, but I had just had my right shoulder reconstructed and I was working mostly one handed.

Check with Andy at Hell's Gate Hotrods. He has all of the stuff, INCLUDING a really nice header/intake flange for the siamese port head. I bought everything but the plenum box for less than $250.00 DELIVERED!! Included a flange for the Holley carb and a collector. All mandrel bends and good EXCELLENTquality.

I took and easier route on my intake. I cut down a 3X1 six cylinder Offy into 2X1. I also cut down a set of 6 header flanges but then found a Fenton Black Widow header for a small block. It is going to take more work than I first thought but it will work. The ports are a little smaller but will be OK.

OH YEAH!! I remember seeing that in your posts on the HAMB!

I had a really fun excursion in the rat rod. I figured out a couple of things after compiling all of the data and reflecting on a couple of situations.

1: The carburetor is lean on top end. The lean out causes the car to gradually overheat if I keep it wound up. My math tells me that the carb is able to flow enough mixture, but the mixture is too lean.

2: The new 350;1 gearing is damn near PERFECT! The car will pull well in overdrive on all but the steepest grades and the downshift is smooth and plenty good for the engine's capability.

3: The car weighs a svelte 2,300 pounds with me in it. I weigh a corpulent 260.

4: This thing has huge fun potential, but it ain't big enough for two people to take a high mileage vacation in.

HEY! BEATER!! Didja' get your 4banger put together??

I sent you a PM with more detail but here the shot version, NO! I got quite a bit done but I had the wrong rear main seal. I didn't know '62-'67 was different than '68 to the one piece seal. The right on arrives tomorrow and I'll try to get the rods and pistons in Wednesday. There may be a clearance issue with #2 rod and the fuel pump cam lobe when using a 181 crank. I'll put that one in first.

I am rooting for you Beater!

Rooting hell, send me Jake!

Blackwater, Here's your up date. I hope your trip is underway.

It seems that my magic number today was 0.016". That is how much clearance there is between #2 rod and the fuel pump lobe of the cam. It is also how much the pistons stick out the top of the hole.
The rod bearing fit is going to be on the tight side but within specs like the mains. This is going to be a tight little engine for a few miles. I think I'm going to clearance the cam a little just to be on the safe side. I'd ilke to see about 0.030" there. I'll stick the other two pistons in and check that out. I have another 0.040" over block that may have a little taller deck. I can turn the pistons down some the top land is thick. A quick reminder of parts. BLOCK-0.040" over 153, 181 CRANK and RODS, tlowe's forged flat top Ross 250 Chevy PISTONS. I have a 0.040" thick copper head gasket. I have no idea of what the valve/piston clearance will be.

[img:left][/img]

Good progress Beater!
Why the copper gasket? I would use a standard Felpro unit.

Those pistons are thick enough. Trim them but be careful not to scuff the sides.

I thought he copper gasket was cute.

The engine is cute, but the copper gasket will require use of oringing the block.

Blackwater, have you found out anything else on a roller cam core?

I haven't!! I've been on the road for over three weeks and just got home this evening.

Sorry I wasn't able to make it over to see tlowe, but my inline four cylinder HONDA let me down and I lost a whole day buying another vehicle!!

Beater!! I'd use that copper gasket to jig everything up and go ahead and figure piston to valve clearance and maybe even pattern the piston tops!!

Juice!! I'm going to use a hydraulic flat tappet cam for the time being! Vigilance and tenacity will make a roller eventually come to hand. Again, in the mean time I'll be recovering from the trip and diverting some of my "rat rod/four banger" money toward a damned car note, something I haven't had in several years!!!

I figure to be physically recovered by the middle of next week. We drove a total of 8,900+ miles and covered 21 states!! My bucket list is a little shorter and my wallet a lot lighter right now!!

That sounds like quite a trip. It's not really a trip if there isn'r some kind of car trouble. I'm already planning next summer's Texas trip.
I put all 4 pistons in and came up with measurements of from + .020" to .023". My buddy and I are headed to the V&T Railroad shop tomorrow to take .025" off of all 4. Then I'll be able to measure piston to valve clearance and figure pushrod length. Meanwhile working on header, valve cover, and side cover.

Juicetone! CNC Dude says he may produce some round lobe roller cam cores if enough interest is evident.

I actually corresponded with him regarding converting a 292 to a roller set up. I did find a roller core at Crower that we had custom ground. We plan to use some link bar lifters to match.

It was CNC Dudes help that really got me to thinking critically about this project. His idea was to use a stock roller set up from an 2.5L inline four, the Iron Duke some call it. Bad part about that is the parts are out of production except for the lifters. It just uses a standard fare hydraulic roller lifter for a small block Chevy. It's the lifter guides and the hold downs that's the kicker.

Oldsmobile 455 links and Chevy small block rollers will work.

You'd think GM would upgrade the cam system on the 3.0 Vortec industrial engine!! With the additive situation becoming what it is, a roller will soon be all that can live!!!

Well that's not what we went with. I had also heard of the Olds link bars but it wasn't 100% confirmed. I almost went with these http://www.flowtechinduction.com/lunati-hr-link-bar-lifters-oldsmobile/ but ended up going with same version in another make.

I'll have another thread when we get it all together.

This was another thread I started about the lifter bore center to center measurement so I could figure out approximately how long the link needed to be. https://www.inliners.org/ubbthreads/ubbth...73650#Post73650

I hope to be tackling this sometime in the late fall or winter. Your info will be invaluable when I do!!

The lifter bore spacing is 1.900" as mentioned in the earlier post. I knew this when this original discussion was done, but didn't mention it because I was in the middle of some product development related to that and didn't want to compromise my efforts at that time. I have some of our original Crane roller lifters we used back when they offered them as application specific items for these engines. I can make some link bars if you'd like.

You and I should meet sometime soon.

When I get healed up from this vacation escapade, I'll get started back on the engine for Lockjaw. Right now, I'm adjusting my finances to the newly acquired car note and, as of yesterday evening, putting enough money together to purchase a new water heater to replace the one that just failed!!

You know how it is with these sort of plans!!

I can't believe you held out on me Scott!

I'm really glad we found it in Santucci's book. What we ended up going with worked out of the box with a little modification to the block. No modifiation to the lifter.

The bosses for the side cover bolts inside the lifter area have to be ground down a little to use link bar style lifters. I can't give away all my secrets...

I'll never tell!!!

And that's exactly what we did...

I hope you'll both let me pick your brains for knowledge in my build!!


Us southern boys gotta' stick together!!

True dat!

Well, I paid for the water heater and I even had a little cash left over!! I saw up on the engines thread where one of our newer members found and bought a trackster with a 153 in it. Injected with a roller and even aluminum rods!! I'm jealous!!

I sold the inline flatty six out of my COE Jeep pickup!! That'll help get a couple of other projects a little farther along. The Jeep is getting a, (y'all don't excommunicate me) big small block V8 to haul my rat rod and mine and the wife's motorcycles on trips.

I've collected a few more small pieces for the 153/175 engine rebuild too!!

Beater of he Pack!!

I was wondering if you ever got your 153 together!

I got put down for a while with another health issue and I'm just now able to get out and around! I still have my stuff and even obtained a Buick 3.8 turbo outfit that I may add to the rat!!

Those who know me know I never get anything put together. I do get a lot done but the hot rods don't seem to get to the front of the line. It's still in the shop somewhere. some parts are getting scattered. I'm trying to get ready for winter now but soon I hope to get the engine and trans together and start on the frame.

I know what you mean about the hotrods never making the front of the line!! I have my Jeep truck that I just realized I've had for ELEVEN YEARS!!! Tranny and transfer case built, chassis almost done, suspension and brakes almost done, STILL collecting engine parts, and I need to locate a suitable flat bed for it.

My Harley needs to be disassembled, detailed, and painted. I have a 64 Galaxy that I have to make road worthy to pay for the paint on the Harley.

I'm helping my attorney with his '73 Mach I custom street machine and he and I are building '27 T street roadster with C4 Corvette suspension and a tube chassis, engine and transmission to be determined later!

PLUS!! I have several bookings for my rock 'n' roll/blues band AND there are two more Cowboy Action Shooting events that I have to set up and vend at.

Then there's the recent health event that I'm trying to get healed up and recovered from...........

I think they call it "life", but I'm beginning to think it's not long enough.

SO!! I'm still fighting the health issue with my foot and that has kept me out of the shop!! It has mostly kept me sitting in a recliner with my left foot elevated or in the bed!!

It's also kept me from spending much money, but it keeps me from making much either!!

Anybody made any progress on their projects lately?? Beater!! Have ya' got that little engine together yet??

CNC!! Any progress on the cam situation?? They're telling me that I may be allowed to walk after the first of the year!! I have scrounged up enough cash to buy the rods from tlowe and I'll be making that happen on Wednesday after Christmas!!

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

No Hot rod progress. I got some spot/search lights and a tail light for the 1919 Essex speedster project and a few odds and ends for the '26 Roadster but nothing assembled. My son and I are heading over the mountains tomorrow to pick up a box scraper and disc for the tractor. I'm beginning to think that my carpal surgery wasn't worth it. If anything my hand is worse. Just had a tough time wrapping Christmas presents.

Take care of the foot and do what the doc says. Merry Christmas!

Had two carpal surgeries on the same wrist several years ago!! Neither did much!! My problem was in my neck, but none of the "practicing" physicians would agree. Do all the therapy you can do and learn to live with it is what I've done.

Everyone!! Please be on the lookout for a mild roller camshaft for a 153/181 GM/Mercruiser four cylinder!!

I got my new roller rockers Wednesday afternoon!! I ordered a set of four of the 6" H-beam rods from TLowe today. We'll be sending the crank out to be offset ground next week. Happy New year!!!

Been a while since I've posted on this thread. I got the research done on the roller cam setup and it won't help me on THIS project, but I know a couple of things for the next time IF there is a next time. Roller cam for this project is on the back burner for now, UNLESS "SOMEBODY" is willing to let me buy that camshaft they have put back for future use.

I picked up a clean used 153" block today, so I can have it machined and I won't have to sideline Lockjaw while the new engine is assembled. Just $50.00 and it's needing only a bore and deck height set.

I've toyed with the idea of turbocharging it. I have a complete Buick V6 turbo outfit that will adapt and give it some serious boost, but I'm leaning again toward NA to keep it caveman simple.

The crank is back, stroked and indexed with a balancer bolt hole drilled and tapped, polished and balanced. Got rods from tLowe and a Cloyes straight cut timing set,procured locally, a set of Comp Cams roller rockers, and an ATI harmonic balancer for it.

I had a relapse, or actually a new health issue with the bad foot and I'm back on the knee scooter or crutches for a while again, but the new shop is up and working and ALL of my toys are now inside and where I can work on them when I'm able.

I'm STILL in the market for that roller camshaft!!

Glad you are making progress. We did learn some stuff about this time last year about roller cams for these things. I haven't gotten any further on my 153 project, but am getting more junk cleared out of my shop so I can find all the parts and have enough room to get it done.

First of all I don't know squat about these things. My engine builder got me a roller cam for my 292 no problem from Crower. Maybe they had it made when Crower made the billet crank. Is it hard because of your engine size? Sorry if this is a dumb question.

You can have one custom made for around $1,000.00, or if you can find a raw billet for around $800.00!! There are a few radical "full race" cams out there, but they won't work for a street setup very well. The later model "Iron Duke" and Fiero cams are roller, but the valve layout is different, so they won't work either.

I know a couple of fellows who have a version that I could use, but they won't sell them and because of the rarity, I don't blame them. I hate that they won't, but I might not myself if the roles were reversed.

I will STILL keep looking and asking around.

I can't remember, will the 151 head bolt on a 153? Could you do that and use the Duke roller cam? It would mean new manifolds.

Brought this one back up because I was asked about which parts I finally chose to use on the 153/175 project.

There's a lot of good info here, contributed by several good folks!! There are several minor and a few major changes that I'll cover over the next few installments.

This has been a long drawn out affair, due in part to some ongoing health issues, and of course recurring, unforeseen income issues!!

Feels good to be getting close!!!

I just went through it all and I can say that I really haven't made any real progress on the engine. A couple of friends decided to help me put my '26 Chevy roadster together last year but having it at another shop didn't work for me. I'm in the process of getting it back here but the space it took up has been filled with other stuff. Some of it the wood for the body that I am replacing. I got a new heart valve in August but I'm involved with deer season until next Monday.
I know where you are with yours so I'm ready to watch and listen.

Glad to hear your doing Good Beater

DANG, Beater!! I didn't know about the heart valve thing!! Hope it's doing well for ya'!!

This is my second one. The first was 20 years ago. New technology, they didn't even open me up this time. They just snaked some wire mesh with three pieces of bovine tissue attached through my femoral artery, shoved it into the old crusty valve and expanded it with a ballon to keep it in place. They sent me home the next day. It was little dicier than that but this is the happy version.
It all held together fine Tuesday on a little deer hunting walk. I started out the back door at almost 6,000' and in a 1/2 mile was up to about 7,000' puffing pretty hard. I crossed over a saddle and made a mile loop back to the house. I didn't see a deer but I was in some pretty spots. Going another direction tomorrow, not so much up and a lot more over.

Sorry, didn't realize i'd been a way so long! I am recovering from a procedure to my left eye. It has an ocular melanoma on the retina, and I had to have a radiation treatment back in July to see if it would reduce it. I go back in November to see what it did. I was able to compete in a long range shooting competition on Labor day weekend. Luckily it wasn't my shooting eye! LOL

LOL @ shooting eye.

Our eyes are not equal. We all have a dominate eye, the stronger of the two. That is your shooting eye. Only one of my eyes works that is my shooting eye.

I have a similar result from different events.
Banged up the right eye (crushed the socket, cheekbone, sinus); still have slightly wrong color pallet 50 years later.
Then lost the left eye (ruptured blood vessel inside the cornea), so the "bad" eye is now the good eye.
You never really get used to it: no depth perception (for familiar settings it appears normal, but that's your memory helping you), and no peripheral vision on the bad side.

Sight is something that you definitely don't want to take for granted. I still don't have great depth perception since the procedure, but it has improved. Driving in the dark hours is still a challenge, especially with many of the newer vehicles having LED headlights. Its not fun, but you try to adapt and keep going.

A few observations on having one functioning eye for over 20 years now. Luckily my good eye is the one I have left.
1. I could be my own donor if I needed a cornea transplant.
2. My world looks smaller but it is full of surprises.
3. It only takes half as long to look at an ugly woman.
4. It takes twice as long to look at a pretty woman.
5. I can't see all of a fat woman at once.
6. I don't have the urge to close my non sighting eye when I shoot.

The wife had cataract surgery on Thursday last. She's amazed at the improvement in her right eye. She is left eye dominant and didn't know it until she started shooting Cowboy Action with me. Her whole world changed after that discovery!! She finally understood why she has trouble with depth and aiming.

The surgery also corrected her astigmatism and now she's all excited, looking forward to the next surgery to correct the left eye!!

Vision is something that we should protect and treasure!!

My wife has no depth perception she can not judge distance never could. even in her younger yrs better much all her life.

Depth perception is the brain's recognition that, at near distances, the left & right eyes do not receive parallel light rays from the same object. At 2" distance the eyes are crossed! It uses the angular difference to gauge distance = depth.
Luckily, a camera's adjustments show us that at distances beyond 30 feet the light rays are so close to parallel that depth perception is so minimal that it does not matter. After 2 car lengths out one eye or both gives the same information.
For an example of military use of this principle, the WW1 range finders had the eye pieces as normal, then 2 internal pairs of 90° mirrors separate the light path to left & right lenses as much as several feet apart to make the angular difference much larger and useful to get ranges of much greater distances.

I just seen my type-O lol should have been Pretty much NOT better much. LOL

Top Fuel racer and pilot Connie Kalitta has vision in only one eye.

Don Garlits suffered detached retinas in both eyes as a result of parachute testing!

Kallita owns a flying service and at one time flew his own planes.

At first I seemed to be working pretty well on memory and depth perception was less of a problem than now. Lots of little things like people handing me things or reaching to pick something up. Lucky for all I think I am closer to the things than I am. At a gas station it looks like I'm going to take out the pump. When I get out sometimes the hose barely reaches. But I don't run into stuff. My friend is the opposite. He thinks he has more room than he does. His truck is dented all over.
I had to learn to drive nails all over. It looks like I'm hitting them sidewise. Only once while turning off a gas air compressor that had a lever that grounded the spark plug I missed the lever and touched the spark plug. The engine didn't shut off. I developed a new strategy. It is very hard to drill holes exactly where I need them. It takes more time to set thins up on the mill or drill press. The lathe is not so much of a problem. Catching things is tough. How many one eyed ball players are there? It might be an advantage in shooting since you sight with only your dominate eye. It might be a good defense for not allowing an attacker to get within 20 feet. I hate shopping or even being in crowded places and at first I was very scared to go into the horse corral. I'm pretty easy to sneak up on from my left.

The wife's second surgery was also a great success! She drove herself to town a couple of days ago and on yesterday's visit to her eye doctor, she now has greatly improved vision, 20/20 in both eyes!!

On the 153 subject! They called on Tuesday last to let me know they're finishing up my new pistons, pins and retainers, and rings and will be shipping 'em next week!! I've located gasket kit, oil pump, and crank bearings and they're readily available.

When the pistons arrive, I'll take the reciprocating assembly to have it balanced and hopefully, I'll have it in the car by Christmas!!

I'll do a rundown on the parts and the changes in a few days!

Good news about your wife!
Good news on the 153. I hope you will take pictures and find a way to post them here. The parts list and description of your changes will be a big help to others. It will be fun to see it in the car and to see what difference you notice.

great wright up on the build looking to run a 292 in the rod 29 essex three window suicide doors 5 speed hope all is well with all and be safe

Heading to the retina specialist today that performed my radiation plaque surgery back in July to see if it was successful in shrinking the melanoma on my retina. I can tell improvements in several ways, so I expecting it has been a success.

CNC,
Wow I hope it all goes as planned too. That is some scary stuff.

Best of luck, Scott!! Sayin' sprayer for ya'!!!

Thanks Tom and Tom! Well wishes and prayers are always much appreciated from family and friends!

You are still in our prayers! I hope you get good news.
And by the way a second shot was not needed recently with the 7mm mag.

Hoping everything went well.

Great results today! The tumor has reduced in size since the procedure and my vision has improved from 20/50 back May, to 20/25 today in that eye. Of course it will need prolonged check up routines and monitoring for a couple of years I'm sure. Thanks for the continued prayers!

OUTSTANDING!!!!

I dropped off the reciprocating assembly at the machine shop today for balancing. Left them that new balancer too! I want to see if it is as well balanced as my ATI units are.

I'm getting really close to putting this little unit together. Gonna mock up the valve train and see how everything lines up this weekend!!

Good news for both of you.

I promised Beater that I'd put together a list of parts for this little 153" engine. There are several pieces that I am using from the original engine which actually came with he car when I bought it and a few parts that I fabricated myself. I'll identify those as I list them.

The block: a 153" automotive block from a Jeep mail truck of unknown vintage. Bored 0.030,cleaned, magnafluxed, and decked to make sure the head surface is flat. Final deck height is 9.158" (I left the other .008 rather than going back and decking more)

The crankshaft: an early 181 industrial crankshaft, checked for true, mains turned 0.010, rods turned offset to earlier small journal standard producing a 3.650 stroke. (I could have had them turned another 0.020 offset and gotten another 0.005", but this leaves a little more material if the crank ever needed to be turned again). Had the machine shop drill and tap for a balancer bolt. I never trusted that balancer and pulley just pressed on.

Rods: 6.00" Scat H-beam rods with bushed little ends. Got these from 12bolt Tom

Pistons: 3.905" forged pistons. Custom made from RaceTec. these are 9.75:1 small dome pistons set to zero deck height. Lightweight tool steel .927 piston pins. Spiro lock retainers.

Rings: Total Seal metric rings matched to the pistons, medium tension, (file to fit)

Lifters: Hydraulic roller lifters, got 'em from 12bolt Tom

Camshaft: McGurk #55 roller cam. Got this from Impala in a trade. It was damaged and I sent it to Oregon Cam Grinding to be repaired and reground to a hydraulic profile. .540"+ lift and 110 centerline. Great folks!!

Timing set: Cloyes straight cut gears with aluminum cam gear and three position crank gear. I bought new cam retainer ring/plate and bolts from a Mercruiser supply.

Rocker arms: Comp Cams stainless Pro Mag roller rocker arms, 1.75:1 ratio, polly locks included.

Stud girdle: V8 small block. Crane Cams. (NOTE! the V8 Chevy small block stud girdle is around $100.00 cheaper than one for a six cylinder and you don't have to modify it. For 4banger you get two and for a six, you can modify the two girdles to do three cylinders each!)

Lump Port kit for intake ports. Again, 12bolt Tom

Valves: Manley, 1.65" stainless exhaust, 1.95" stainless intake

Cylinder head: 153" Chevy II head, ported and polished, combustion chamber slightly relieved around valves, milled 0.035", intake lumps installed and blended, 7/16" studs and guide plates installed, bench flowed and final polishing where warranted, and Crane valve springs installed. 74cc chambers.

I decided to use a different balancer for this project to keep costs down. It is SFI approved and manufactured in Australia. I'll post the brand here if it passes muster with the machine shop where I sent the reciprocating assembly for balancing! (More on machine shops later)

I built the header and intake manifold myself from header tubing. It mounts a Holley 4150 NASCAR 390 cfm carb with mechanical secondaries. This was a swap meet find that wasn't supposed to be sold to the public. It has no choke tower and uses removable jet plates on both ends. Both bowls have accelerator pumps. This setup works well on the stock engine that's in the car now, but I figure I'll have to re-jet and maybe put the big accelerator pump back on the secondary bowl.

I'm using a BBC starter on the little engine. I had it laying around and figured, "Why Not??"

The distributor is a slightly modified, stock, points type unit with a vacuum advance and a re-curved mechanical advance. We tinkered with it on one of the old Sun distributor machines 'til we were happy with it.

I haven't mocked up the head and cam yet, so I'm not sure what pushrod I'll be using. I doubt if I'll be lucky enough that the stock ones will work!

The head work was done by Bridges Machine in Nashville, Tennessee. Jimmy is an old friend from my racing days and he's held multiple NHRA World Records over the years and built heads for many other NHRA and NASCAR competitors. He has a flow bench and complete porting facilities as well as that Sun distributor machine and he does carburetor work for many drag and circle track racers.

The block and crank were done by Simpkins Machine in Springfield, Tennessee. Again, an old racing buddy who does things right. He's been around here forever and is happy to do custom work.

The camshaft was repaired and reground by Oregon Cam Grinders. It had one lobe that was flattened out because of a lifter failure. they built it back up with hard surface weld and reground it to a hydraulic profile that should be very streetable in this combination. Great communication and a stellar reputation among the people I've dealt with.

Balancing and final fit on the reciprocating assembly is by Kirt's Machine in Nashville, Tennessee. Peanut Watson is a racer. He's been in and around drag racing for more than forty years as a mechanic, driver, and machinist. Again, a producer of work for multiple NHRA and IHRA World Record holders and a major supplier to local racers of every kind!!

There's more that I'll add later. I'm certain I've forgotten or overlooked something.

Thanks to Beater of the Pack for his help with research and his connections with so many Inliners.

Thanks to Impala for trading that cam to me!

Thanks to 12bolt Tom for his help and for busting up six cylinder packages to get me what I needed and for information used in this build.

FINALLY!! Thanks to CNC Dude!! He pointed me in the right direction several times in compiling information and collecting "the right stuff the first time" and spent hours on the phone and on the web, helping me to get through all of the myth and misinformation that's out there to confuse and discourage a neat project.

Happy to know all is well Scott.

Blackwater, Thanks for putting all of this in one post. It is a great help to be able to read it from beginning to end, well... near the end. Thanks for telling us where some of the work was done. That should help others too.

I am looking forward to seeing how this thing runs. I think I will do a similar post about mine when it goes together in it's final form. My build focused mainly on what off the shelf parts could be used coupled with my limited skills and tools. 12 Bolt built the head and supplied forged Ross 250 pistons. He broke up a set for a six to do that. I also have his side cover and rocker cover.

When we were talking on the phone excited about the possibility of using a 151 roller cam we thought we had come up with something. Then you discovered that the valve order was changed on the Iron Duke (151). Did we ever look into using a 151 head? That would require different manifolds but performance manifolds are available for them. I don't know if that would work but it would open the world of roller cams.

The later Iron Duke head can be made to work. If I remember correctly, you have to relocate one head bolt hole in the block. I was already too far along with my old siamesed port head to change directions. (Maybe I'll do another one with the engine I'm pulling out and use a Pontiac Super Duty head and manifolds!).

Those later roller camshafts also have a second distributor drive gear.

The standard Iron Duke block is thinner cast and the cylinders are shorter in length, so using the 181 crankshaft requires an extra long connecting rod to keep from pulling the piston out the bottom of the cylinder. Same is true of the Pontiac SD block!! Again, without going back into my notes, it takes about a 6.250" rod to make this work and those would be special order if available at all!!

My research says the standard Iron Duke block is deficient in strength in several areas and the stock crankshafts are JUNK!! They also lack the motor mount bosses to allow easy installation in a longitudinal configuration.

Don't forget!! The inliner Chevy rod is DIFFERENT from those of the SBC!!

There is some extremely good info over on the FIERO forum! There's a guy over there that has played with several combinations of the "Duke" and combining parts from the Chevy II, the early Iron Duke, the Mercruiser 153/181, and the industrial 3.0 GM engines!

I think that if there was a way to acquire SB rods before the bottom is narrowed they would work. Another option would be adding material to one side of the crank journal.

It may be on that FIERO site that I read about putting a 181 crank in a 151. I can not remember what rods and pistons were used. I have a complete 151 from a YJ Jeep that I may play with and also a professionally rebuilt, U code I think, cross mount engine. This is truly an interesting engine family.

[quote=Beater of the Pack]I think that if there was a way to acquire SB rods before the bottom is narrowed they would work. Another option would be adding material to one side of the crank journal.]

I'd bet that you could get someone like Eagle or Carrillo to make the proper length rod. They are the same as SBC except for the inline rod not being narrowed to allow for two rods on one journal. They do that to get the rod in the center of the piston on the crooked engines.

The adding material would work, but it would involve a LOT of welding and machine work!! Some serious re-balancing too!!

Got the balanced assembly back from the machine shop this morning!! Less than a quarter gram difference between the four pistons. Probably could have skipped the balance job, according to my machinist.

The new balancer is very good!! I'll put the brand and info up when
I get the boxes out of the car.

Got the cast off my bad foot yesterday morning and I'm starting to re-learn this "walking" thing!!

I still have a little healing up to do and the Santa Claus thing is gonna' bite me in the billfold, but I'm hoping to have it all assembled and set in the car by Christmas.

Progress is good, it sounds like you're making some.

That balancer is made by ProSport. It's made in Australia and meet SFI 18 specs. There isn't one made directly for the inliners, (no V-belt pulley groove) but I'm modifying my belt setup anyway!

My machinist ran mine up pretty high on his high speed rig and he says it's well balanced and very true.

They're available on Evil-bay. Be sure to specify the SFI approved units. They make a cheaper one but it's not SFI rated!! I think they're available from Speedway as well.

Blackwater glad to hear your back on your feet no pun.

Yes speedway Has Both a SFI and a non SFI. The SFI is 164.99 the other is like 85 bucks. And it says the SFI was spun tested to 12,500 rpm that's a plus I think.

Speedy way also has this
TCI 870022 Chevrolet V/Inline 6 Balancer
Chevy Inline Six, 6.29" Outside Diameter, 18.1 SFI Rating, Steel, Black powdercoated with a 312.99 price tag But no photo at this time.
Application
1954-1962 Chevy Inline Six 235
1962-1967 Chevy Inline Six 194
1963-1969 Chevy Inline Six 230
1963-1989 Chevy Inline Six 292
1965-1984 Chevy Inline Six 250

Chevrolet made more than 5 different dampers for those engines...

The 153 only had hub, a pulley, and maybe a rubber pad between them. The 181 had it's own dampener. I bought a new 181 unit when I got my 181 crank. It'll work for my milder build. The fours don't have the same harmonic issues as the longer six. They are going to be be rougher no matter.

Right!! I put a later model balancer from a six cylinder on Lockjaw when I first put the car together. Right now, the engine is mounted solid to a mid plate and bolted directly to the frame. No rubber mounts! I'm considering isolating it on rubber mounts when I go back together with it.

The natural vibration from the four cylinder was expected, but now that I have the parts and the opportunity, I figure I can cut down on the perceived vibration.

The balance work, the longer rods, a BETTER harmonic balancer, and rubber mounts SHOULD achieve this goal.

Thanks, Larry!! Been a long journey with several setbacks. I still have a little work to do. This "walking" thing is all new to me again!!

Maybe if we put all of our remains together we could come up with one or two healthy guys to finish our projects.

Right lol.

As discovered many decades ago, L4 engines begin to experience severe vibration when the displacement passes about 2.2 liters (134").
Above that, light reciprocating bits and a large rod ratio help. Balance shafts frequently used in modern engines.
The L4 crank is much stiffer than the L6, and doesn't have harmonic problems. The L6 is not quite in perfect balance, since rocking couple will always exist between cylinders, there's no way to place the counterweight exactly 180° from (directly opposite) the crank throw.

I've done a lot with this project cut down on the vibration characteristics of the little engine!

BUT!! It's displacement has increased to 2.9 liters which is a negative, as it the slight increase in stroke. I'm hoping the the longer rods and the much lighter piston/pin will offset those negatives. Attention to balance and the better balancer should offer marginal improvements as well. Replacing the solid hub that came with the original engine was a noticeable improvement, so I'm thinking this will improve the situation.

Panic posted on the thread we have here (somewhere) about these engines to speak to a maximum practical size for 4 cylinder without a counter balance system. I think he said it was about 2 liters. I'm sure rpm is a huge factor as the older engines didn't turn nearly as high as we strive for now. That said there are some screaming 4 bangers out there. I am beginning to think I chose the wrong cam for what I really want my engine to do. It's not a racer.

Yeah! I've studied on that some. I figure I'll probably only rarely push this little unit past 4,500 RPM! No way to add a counterbalance mechanism, but I'm hoping what I'm doing will give it the low end grunt to make use of the overdrive transmission and the tall gearing.

I started this project using a 3.00:1 gear, but the stock engine wasn't quite torquey enough to stay in OD at interstate speeds when I hit a grade and wanted to drop to third gear. I swapped to a 3.50:1 gear and it worked well, but of course fuel mileage suffered. I'm thinking, (and hoping) that this build will let me go back to that taller gear.

When Steve Tanzi from Erson cams sat down with me he worked up 3 cam grinds based on my roadster build. The rpm ranges were #1. 1750-4750, #2. 2200-5200, #3. 2500-5500. I chose #3 and now think #1 would have been more realistic for what the car will be doing the most. The rear end and transmission are from y son's '54 Studebaker wagon. Trans is a BW T86 three speed OD and the rear gear are from a Dana 44 4.27-1. Tires will be close to 30". We ran that setup in the wagon on some round trips to Texas. In OD 65-70 was around 23000 rpm. On a stretch we did from Vegas to Kingman without OD was 55 mph at around 35000 and not pleasant. This was behind a supercharged 289 Stude V8.

I'm thinking the 4.27 will get the 4 cylinder rolling and help on the many mountains here. 70-75 Is plenty on the highway and I will avoid freeways when ever I can. So almost all driving will be in the cam #1 range. I have other rear gears 3.73, 3.55, 3.08 to play with but they probably won't help with this cam. At the rat the build is progressing it won't matter anyway.

I think I'd look seriously at the 3.73:1 for that project!! A little over half a ratio and it will still be in the ballpark to get the vehicle moving!!

You are probably right.

Got my gasket set and my rod and main bearings yesterday. I also came by a Chevrolet oil cooler setup to go on the little feller!! It'll need new hoses made up and probably a small cooling fan. Just so happens that I've got several brand new fans just made for this !!

Where does the oil cooler connect?

The oil cooler mounts where the oil filter attaches to the block. I'll have to get creative when I install it, but it ain't that big of a deal!! GM uses 'em on lots of late model stuff. The oil filter just screws on like normal.

Most folks don't take into consideration that the oil in an engine is the first coolant in the operation of the machine!!

I'll have to look into that. I have a remote filter kit for mine. I was thinking of using a track type nose and using that space for the filter somehow. I'm not using that nose now but may use a firewall mount and could hook up a cooler between them.

Usually, the filter is before the cooler to prevent trash from accumulating in the core. An "H" bypass line between them and returning into the cooler's return allows the cooler to be shut down at low temperatures.
The cooler must have an air pressure differential between the front and back, even with a fan. A fan-equipped cooler hung in the engine bay will simply recirculate air around the cooler and back again (like a fan with no shroud).

Panic! Not your usual engine compartment configuration!! The radiator is in the trunk and the engine sits in an open compartment behind an empty grille! I'll be installing the cooler in that empty space behind the grille with the fan install in front of the cooler! This is a factory installed Chevrolet unit from a high performance, special ordered Camaro. I've done quite a few oil cooler installations and this one seems to follow all of the rules for proper operation.

My '97 dually has a very similar, factory installed oil cooler.

If you can mask the grill except for the cooler core IDT you'll need a fan since oil cooler load will vary with power.

I figure I can use one fan and keep air flowing through the oil cooler and the transmission cooler when I'm sitting in traffic. That and on long uphill pulls on the freeway are the only times that temp was any problem.

The last trip I took with the old stock 153 was about 250 miles. It was 100 degrees in the shade in mid July. It only offered to get really hot on long hard pulls grades of a mile or more. The engine was lean, (a problem I won't have this time) and the ignition timing wasn't correct, (something else I've cured).

I finally got to mock up my cylinder head and valve train! None of the rocker arm covers that I have will clear the stud girdle and I would have to file off the outside extreme corners of the two end pushrod guides. The existing covers also crowd the two end rocker arm trunions and I'm not fond of that either. If I were using aluminum rockers, I'd have to shave the corner of the to end rockers to clear the cover.

I'm going to take one of my cast aluminum Mercruiser covers and cut the flange off of it. I've got a pair of SBC extra tall, cast aluminum covers, so I'll remove the flange from one of them, TiG it onto the 4 cylinder flange upside down. This will create an adapter to use the other SBC cover and eliminate any unwanted modification to the valve train. Using the small block cover will furnish extra space for the entire assembly operate and save me having to fabricate an entire rocker arm cover!!

If I remember correctly the two end rockers were rounded to clear the valve cover in some of the roller rocker sets sold for the sixes.

Would a spacer between the head and the and rocker cover work? Have you seen the cover Tom sells? It has more room inside.

Some guys on the HAMB have adapted repro Frontenac covers it get more room. I tried to adapt a GMC but lacked the skill.

MY Trys

Another

Beater the duggan/deppe covers need more to them ,Main reason being is the Head surface was taller So that made for a shorter cover height. But they have way more room inside, This is one thing I am going to address When I get the time to play more with the molds I bought of his stuff To me this is a easy fix.

And to answer the Rocker question Yes some of the rockers did indeed need rounding off #1 & 6 But now the comp pro-magnum rockers and other are more stream lined now clear with out having to do anything.

I'm using the Comp Cams Ultra Pro magnum rockers. MAN!! Those things are nice!! They really don't present a problem.

I HAVE looked at Tom's cover. Not sure it will clear the stud girdle and I already have the pieces mentioned in my previous post. The welding will cost me little more than a good lunch and will both adapt and space the cover up, giving me the needed clearance and I won't have to trim the pushrod guide plates at the front and rear.

I've always been a "bucks down" racer/builder, so if I can save a dollar here and there and still get the performance I'm looking for, I'll find a way!

'Sides!! Think how folks will react, seeing a big, tall SBC cover on that little engine!! There'll be some people scratching their heads!!

Larry. I forgot you got some of the D/D stuff from Scott. I had not even noticed the height problem.

I like making things too that's why I tried the GMC cover. It could have caused some head scratching too. Those things are not as straight as they look and the metal is very thin. I have a plain cover that is much thicker and I think I could make it fit. But I have one of Tom's now with a matching side cover. They will get me going and I can play with the others later maybe.

I think I got pretty much all he had left of it. And may pieces are going to be fairly easy to make small mods to fit our L6s.

An affordable timing cover would be nice.

Larry sure had a full load of stuff heading back to Florida! Glad to pass the torch and finally meet him after all these years on the forum.

Beater
The timing cover is one of the things I will be addressing.
CNC-dude is was good to meet you as well, It is always good to put a face with / to a name and voice. I should be having the first around of Webber intakes in my hands here shortly.

I'm wishing you lots of success with these pieces. I hope the demand is there.I think there is some need for 2x1 & 2x2 down draft intakes but I don't know if it enough to actually produce them.

Good the see folks from here actually getting together.

I sold both 4cyl webber intakes I had and I made new head plates to mount them to the 4port head. The bolt pattern is the same But the ports are wider, So it was pretty much a Transition plate from one port size to the other.

That is cool! I have no business sense at all so I have now way to assess what the demand might be for a product. If someone has the skills, tools, and connections there are lots of opportunities. My son is working for a piece for Tesla right now that he hopes will turn into something. It's for production not the vehicles themselves.

That is cool, Back in the late 70s/early 80s I worked for a company with my Mom Making mostly Auto mirrors But they did do some home stuff but mostly auto. But like many other company's Sold out to china. So that end that.

Glad to hear you have it rolling right along Larry!

If I was going to make a simple universal part with multiple applications, I would look at a 235/261 (big port) intake stub: a flange with ears like stock and a tube with the port ID 4-5" long with an open end.
3 of them makes a log manifold by terminating in a 2" or larger cylinder running across.
It could be an IR, each tube could end in an S.U. flange, a Carter YH, Mikuni, KeiHin, etc. stub depending on the carburetor's mount.
Since the only force is vacuum, epoxy may be sufficient to assembly.
Add a tab here & there for throttle linkage, fuel manifold, choke, etc.

By making it expandable by about 3/4" and sleeves for port size it could fit the GMCs too. Kind of like Tinker Toys.

With un-drilled flanges it might fit other L6 engines including SV.

Options Are always pretty much endless .

I found a shop that can probably do the TiG welding that I need done, since I don't have a TiG welding machine. May be able to convince them to let me use their machine, although I hate to ask.

Almost ready to start putting everything together!!

Spent the afternoon cutting out the pieces to make the adapter. The 4 cyl. cover is considerably shorter than the SBC cover. I cut flat pieces of the SBC cover to make filler panels for the difference in length.

The bolt holes on the flat side of the Mercruiser flange will even line up with the ones on the V8 flange which really helps with getting the two pieces indexed. The wavy side of the 153 cover will require several small pieces be cut to fill small gaps.

I've decided to have the bolt holes in the V8 cover filled so I can drill and tap them for studs to fasten down the actual cover. I'll also stud the L4 head to aid gasket alignment and simplify bolting down the finished adapter.

Wish I knew how to post pictures. It's gonna' look really neat!!!

Yes, I'd like to see it.

BEATER!! I think I have your E-mail address here somewhere. If I do, I'll send you some pics!!

If you don't mind I'd like to see it.

Larry!! Message me your e-mail address or a phone number where I can text them to you!! I'll be happy to send you the pics.

Got the pieces delivered to the welding shop yesterday afternoon. Says he'll have it for me next week. Turns out the guy is a kid I used to coach when my son played baseball and football twenty-five or more years ago!!

Hey!! Beater!

I've looked and either can't find or don't have your e-mail address!! Message it to me or a phone number that I can text them to you and I'll send you some pics this weekend!!

Hey Blackwater, just google "free pic hosting sites". You can upload your pics there and copy the code it gives you and paste it into the "Image" option in the Reply box.

Be very careful which one you pick. Years ago I chose Picasa, a part of Google. In the fine print your pictures became theirs if they wanted them. Then they changed their service and you could no longer post to other sites and it was very difficult to download your own photos back to your computer. Last week I updated my OS and lost Picasa completely because Google has not updated it. Lots of old photos there.

So look around for what is out there. If you find a good one let me know.

Send them to me and I will post them. tom@12bolt.com

Tom!! Check your E-mail!! I sent 'em to you this morning!

Here you go. That is a bunch of pics.

Yeah!! I figured I'd show the steps that got me there. I often take a lot of photos so that if it works, I can reproduce the job and if it doesn't, I can maybe tell where I screwed up!! There are actually several more, but some are redundant and a few are just shots of materials and tools.

Thanks, Tom!!

Nice work, It should give you a boat load of clearance for just about anything.

Owner/user built pieces are the coolest part of hot rodding. There are many parts that most of us can not create but when we can, especially if there is no after market alternative, "home made" is always interesting. There used to be a lot more out there for these little 4s but a lot of that has dried up. Some of the guys here are trying to supply us but we are not a large market and they can't do it for free. You have done a good job here of filling your own needs.
The pictures really help. The fact that they were posted for you by a guy that sells a cover that would probably have worked for you is a great thing about this site.

Got the completed piece back from the welding shop yesterday evening. I spent about an hour this morning cleaning up a few welds, but all in all it looks like it'll work well.

Tomorrow, I have a doctor's appointment in the morning and the big monthly grocery run to make. After that, I plan to drill and tap the holes I had welded up for studs to hold the SBC cover. Maybe a little more sanding and a good coat of wrinkle finish black paint and I'm another step toward getting it all together.

A partner dropped off a ring gap file for me to use. Mine took a hike when the trailer we used to haul the race cars was stolen several years ago!! Hard to believe that I haven't really built an engine for my self in going on twenty years!!

AND! Thanks again, Tom!!

The doctor visit was all good news!! The issue with a toe has begun to heal nicely and the doc was pleased. I don't have to go back for a couple of weeks.

Anyhow!! I got back into the shop three days ago for the first time in almost a week! I finished cleaning up the adapter and then had to make a trip over to the old shop to run some new air lines. That shot the rest of the day and part of another.

Finally got back to the adapter yesterday and finished it up. A final fit and check everything, drill, tap, and install studs and painted it!! It's on the shelf and I'm moving on to other little jobs I need to do before I do the final assembly.

Good news from a doctor always makes life better! Progress on a project makes life more fun. I'm interested in seeing the finished valve cover.

No pun but glad to hear your back on your feet.

I got some pics of the finished product. I'm gonna' send 'em to Larry and maybe he or Tom can put 'em up!! I'm having issues with my confuser and e-mailing photos isn't a problem, but posting them to this forum isn't working right now.

When my rich uncle gets outta' the poor house, I'm gonna' have the computer looked at and some upgrades done. I'm not at all happy with my browser!!

Having my confuser updated!!