Champ Car replica circa 1930s

Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 11/19/07 07:02 PM

Here's the exhaust all welded up. Can't wait to hear it. The first photo is taken (now use your imagination a bit here) hopping over the pit wall. The next is flat-trackin down into turn 1. The last getting pushed into victory lane.




Follow the progress at www.fordsix.com
Posted by: stock49

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 11/19/07 07:18 PM

Woah!

To cool for words. Is that double over head cam set-up for real?

Nice work.

stock49
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 11/19/07 07:58 PM

Thanks.
Not yet.
Posted by: Twisted6 I.I #3220

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 11/19/07 09:35 PM

It is Look Great French. But i think that wooden seat is going to be ruff on the Butt lol lol Just kinding I know you (wood hehe) would replace it.
Posted by: chopped 40

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 11/20/07 04:41 AM

Frenchtown,

Look at them Pipes! I'm jealous! Nice work as usual. How am I going to top that. It's a "Duesey"

RapRap
1940 ChoppedChevyCoupe
Posted by: 6inarow I.I. #1475

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 11/20/07 10:01 AM

Cool, I love it. keep us posted. I wonder how it will be to drive it??? (Envy here)
Posted by: Mr48chev

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 12/01/07 03:04 PM

All I can say is "Oh, Man look at that". A similar rig but done as a two seater is on my drawing board with pieces being collected one at a time but you have raised the bar just more than a little bit.
Posted by: Ray Bell

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 12/04/07 01:00 PM

A two-seater... that makes sense...

What power unit are you planning to use?
Posted by: Mr48chev

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 12/05/07 11:02 PM

The current plan is to use a 1928 or so Chev frame with the 250 that is currently in the 48 as power. I might go for a 4 if the 250 is going to cost too much to do up right. The idea is to look like I took an old 2 seat Indy car and put it on the street.
For Inspiration I keep looking here http://www.milleroffy.com/.
Make sure you listen to the sound tracks.
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 01/04/08 01:20 PM

I built this intake last week for SU sidedraught carbs. It usually takes me about two hundred hours to fabricate an intake manifold using hammerform dies. This time I decided to make it out of flat aluminum stock. It only took about 40 hours to get this far. I still have to make throttle linkage and an equilizer tube, plus polish it all up, but you get the general idea. Does it look old fashioned? I did zero calculations on it - just grabbed a pencil and sketched the runners kinda seat-of-the-pants like.




Posted by: strummin67 I.I.

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 01/04/08 02:57 PM

I think you did a great job on it. I see you making some serious money on your fabrication skills. ;\)
Posted by: Beater of the Pack

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 01/04/08 05:05 PM

I want to see it side-ways coming out of turn 2 the stearing wheel cranked to the stops, and the left front wheel a foot off the track. This is cool! I'm glad someone is getting things done, I'm running in the cold winter shop mode. Snowing like a ........!
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 03/25/10 08:45 AM


Getting the Ford 9" "quick-change" welded in is my latest effort
Posted by: chopped 40

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 03/25/10 07:56 PM

Very nice work, my friend. That, when finished, will be truely remarkable! Craftmanship and design really stands out when done like that.!

RapRap
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 10/16/12 06:13 AM

Lately, I modified the steering arms and moved the steering tie rod to the rear of the axle. Then the steering gear mechanism was welded in:





Posted by: Drew, II # 4211

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 10/16/12 07:55 AM

I showed your pics and info to a few members of EMMR http://www.emmr.org and they relly appreciate your work and the fact that you are using an Inline FORD rather than an older flathead.
When it's ready to roll we hope you can make it this far east some day for one of EMMR's Track Days.
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 10/16/12 09:18 PM

Thanks for the offer Drew. I would be thrilled to do so.
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 10/18/12 03:34 PM

Another silly little detail job - a stone/mud guard to go in front of the front axle. Most stone guards were crude "chicken wire" affairs. I made this one and ran it through the beader to offset flange the edge, then powdercoated it black and put a brushed aluminum framework around it. I'll stencil the car number on it later.




Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 11/17/12 02:41 PM

I started the cockpit area:



Posted by: chopped 40

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 11/17/12 05:36 PM

Fantastic work, Frenchtown!!!
Posted by: Drew, II # 4211

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 11/18/12 06:10 PM

Very nice FTF! Are you using any wooden bucks? Attached is a pic of EMMR's Hiram Hillegass tools,bucks and an unfinished body I thought you might enjoy. Always impressed with your handiwork.


Also, 3-4 times a year at our events the Metal Shapers group sets up a portable shop and explain how, make for you, or repair sheet metal parts for attendees. All for free! Just bring your stuff.
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 11/20/12 06:06 PM

Yes Drew, I made bucks for all the major body components - tail, cockpit, and two different nose sections. The story on this board is just a small portion of what I've posted over at http://www.fordsix.com. Check it out.
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 12/10/12 04:13 PM

I made this cowl section off a buck:

Posted by: Drew, II # 4211

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 12/10/12 04:25 PM

Very nice!
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 12/18/12 09:29 PM

Hoodlum hot rodders helped me put the body in place:
Posted by: Drew, II # 4211

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 12/19/12 10:26 AM

That is looking awesome! I had to save the pic for later use.
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 07/20/13 06:51 AM

I placed all the semi-finished panels on the chassis to mount the body to the frame using the flanges, like they used to.













Posted by: Drew, II # 4211

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 07/20/13 08:12 AM

Wow! And Wow! again.
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 07/20/13 08:52 AM

Thanks Drew.

I have planned to add a head rest onto the tail from the start. But that is a very difficult (for me at least) seciton to make and I am not sure how to do it. I see at least three different ways to do it. I may contact Ron Covell for some pointers. I think it will add greatly to the look of the car. It is a real juggling act to keep the proportions pleasing to the eye, especially in view of the fact that the big Ford six is huge in comparison to the Offys and Millers of the day. And the fact that I am tall so the tail needs to be made proportionally larger and the roll bar sufficiently high to protect me.
Posted by: big bill I.I.#4698

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 07/21/13 08:09 AM

FTF You better be careful, you will get this one done and then you will have to come up with a project to top it and that will be difficult. \:\)
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 07/22/13 05:28 AM

I was thinking a 300-powered crop duster.
Biplane style of course.
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 07/22/13 05:29 AM

Or maybe a 7/8 scale P-51 Mustang.
Posted by: Beater of the Pack

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 07/22/13 07:05 AM

You could help me put my 413 Dodge flathead in a boat or maybe a submarine.
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 07/22/13 01:25 PM

I like the sub idea. You sure wouldn't need much additional ballast.

And "NO", I'm not going to make any boat anchor remarks.
Posted by: Beater of the Pack

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 07/22/13 06:55 PM

Going down is not the issue. V-8s make better anchors, something to do with the shape.
Posted by: lowboygmc

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 10/14/13 09:12 PM

Well whats the word on this project??

Still curious!!
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 10/17/13 05:08 PM

Not much to report on except that I spoke with Ron Covell and he will be doing a story on this car in an upcoming issue of a hot rod magazine.
Posted by: Drew, II # 4211

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 10/18/13 03:04 PM

If your sheet metal work impressed "Professor Hammer" enough to do an article, I'd say that's a really great acknowledgement of your hammering skills. Nice!
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 10/18/13 05:26 PM

I don't think "impressed" is the operative word - more like "take pity on the poor boy" and show me how to add a head rest. But I don't want to give too much away.
Posted by: Drew, II # 4211

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 10/18/13 06:14 PM

\:\)
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 11/11/13 12:16 PM

Street Rodder, January 2014 issue. pg 132
Posted by: Drew, II # 4211

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 11/11/13 01:12 PM

Way cool. I'll be sure to grab a copy soon.
Posted by: popper6

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 11/29/13 07:16 PM

Nice write up!!!!!! 1 OLD NECK
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 11/29/13 08:13 PM

Thanks popper6. Now I guess I'l have to get back working on the car to justify the print space the build article took up. Mr Covell seems like a super nice gent with a genuine interest in the builders he helps out.
Posted by: Beater of the Pack

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 10/18/14 10:06 AM

This is great. I just went through this again and wonder how it is coming along. The Essex motor is making me think crazy things. Thinking seems to be all I get done. I tried to check out the Ford 6 site but it said I had to register' I'll do that later. What wheels and tires do you plan to run? Exactly what is a Champ Car?
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 10/20/14 10:37 AM

Hello again. Well I did not get much work done on the champ car this summer. It is one of two complete ground-up car projects I am working on - the other being a tube chassised '49 Anglia 6-cylinder hot rod. Both cars are currently stored in a building about a mile from my home. Because of that I have detoured a little bit and I am now thinking of building a small, period-correct-looking trailer to be able to transport them back and forth to my home to get worked on. Building a trailer just big enough to hold these two cars is a side track I'd rather not be on but down the road it could actually save me time, not to mention the fact that I will need it to transport the champ car around behind my '46 pickup truck. I had originally thought of licensing the champ car to drive on the highway but the more I thought about it it did not seem practical, as I would still need a trailer to attend vintage races in it.

To answer your question about 'what is a champ car" the answer is a little burry. In the '20s and '30s closed course racing split into two basic categories - midget race cars and full sized cars. Midget cars were powered by smaller car engines (V8 60s, Crosleys, etc., and motorcycle and outboard engines) and the larger cars used full sized car engines (and sometimes aircraft engines). Gradually race-specific engines were developed like the Millers and Offys for use in the big cars and sanctioning bodies evolved to sponsor big championship races and series. Those became known as "big cars" or "champ cars". Sprint cars were a subset of those big cars, usually designed for shorter, fairground sized venues with shorter wheelbases but bigger than midget cars. That is an oversimplified explanation as evolution has produced many permutations of the two groups of open wheel racers - quarter midgets, three quarter midgets, full midgets, winged sprints, non-winged sprints, 360 sprints, 410 sprints, Indy cars, Formula cars, etc.

I plan to use Coker dirt track tires of the era with wire wheels. The wire wheels will be one of the most expensive parts on the car. I've heard Dayton wires - like the kind used by many of the Indy 500 teams - can still be bought new but cost about $8000 for a set of four. I'll seek cheaper alternatives, like Coker. They make some that have a 5 x 5 1/2 bolt pattern.

Your Essex motor would be right at home in a '30s era champ car. A body could be made easily with few compound curves using an old implement grill and some cut up fender sections for the tail. Some guys use two hoods from a '40 Ford clam shelled together.

Be patient with me - I think faster than I work.
Posted by: Drew, II # 4211

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 10/21/14 06:05 PM

TFF, thinking of racing evolution, but not auto, I recently attended the fall meet of the Delaware Valley Outboard Racing Association on Laurel Lake in Millville,NJ. What a difference from years ago when I last saw them. These little SIDEWINDER 15 and 20 cu in screamers put out amazing power with many variations of tuned exhaust. The upper power class could blow your eardrums out. Big rooster tails. Finding a way to put one in a 3/4 midget might be fun even after all the hacking. LOL.

http://www.racingoutboards.com/Products/Sidewinder.aspx
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 10/22/14 10:09 AM

Nice outboard website.

In looking back I guess I dd get a little done this summer. The engine is on a test stand. I have a new short block in which I installed straight-cut cam gears in it which should make it whine like it was supercharged, but the straight cut gears have an adjustable timing hub and somehow I got them retarded by about a tooth (no timing marks on the gears) so it has to come apart to correct. On other business I put together a 2.75 and a 3.0 rear gearsets. My thinking here is that with a relatively mild motor (less than 300 HP)and a C4 trans with an auxilliary cooler I will be able to run in high on long tracks like at Indy and use 2nd (1.46:1 ratio, I think) on 1/4 mile and 5/8 mile tracks with an effective final gear ratio around 4.5:1 and not have to zing the motor too hard.
Posted by: Beater of the Pack

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 10/22/14 09:36 PM

Thanks for the explanation. At what point did the mechanic quit riding in the Indy cars? Whatever I do with the Essex I want it to be a two seater. I have a set of 19" Chevy wire wheels. I'll have to see how they look.
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 10/23/14 08:44 PM

BoP,
I got this out of wikipedia:

Starting in 1912, riding mechanics were made mandatory for all races of 100 miles or longer (which included Indianapolis).[3] In 1923 riding mechanics were made optional, and only one team utilized them.[3] They were brought back from 1930 to 1937 and made mandatory once again. From 1938 on, they were again deemed optional, but no teams in the starting field used one ever again. In the years immediately following WWII, nearly all two-man cars had been parked, or converted to single-seaters. Riding mechanics were formally written out of the rule book in 1964.[3]

I was surprised to see they were not written out until the '60s.
Posted by: Beater of the Pack

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 10/24/14 10:00 AM

Thanks for that. Wow, I am surprised too. That leaves me a lot of room for a fun build with the Essex.
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 12/06/15 08:34 PM

I built this head rest per Ron Covell's instructions.


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Next I will marry it to the rear body section.

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I also built a trailer for the car to haul behind my '46 pickup.

Posted by: Beater of the Pack

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 12/07/15 09:06 AM

Nice work, the trailer will add a vintage look to the whole package.
Posted by: Drew, II # 4211

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 12/08/15 10:38 AM

Very nice, nice metal work. I was watching a couple Covell's metal working videos recently. Always interesting even if I don't do the excellent metal work such as you do.
Regarding riding mechanics: In those times they were part of the "pit crew" maintaining the race car as it raced, running back to the pits for full gas cans if the race car ran empty and spotting competitors for the driver.
A very busy and important man risking life and limb. Obviously with the advent of modern design in car and engine with weight saving a primary target, the riding mechanic was no longer needed or justified. But, I too am curious as to why it took so long to rule him out.

All are welcome to visit this web site and visit the museum next season.
www.emmr.org
Posted by: Beater of the Pack

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 12/08/15 12:16 PM

In the early 60s my uncle ran a bar and restaurant he rented a bunch of old Indy 500 movies and I borrowed a 16mm projector from my high school. We started early in the morning and showed the movie highlights from every race from 1912 on. Guys came and went but I was there the whole time. There were several midget and sprint car drivers there. It was the day before Memorial Day. I remember in one early race the mechanic fell out and got up and ran back to the car dodging other racers. Think of 1912 cars even racing for 500 miles let alone averaging around 60mph. Those guys were tough.
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 12/08/15 02:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Beater of the Pack
In the early 60s my uncle ran a bar and restaurant he rented a bunch of old Indy 500 movies ... Those guys were tough.


I heard one story:

In a two man car the rear tire started to come apart, sending a snake-like tread flailing around and hitting the driver in the bicep every time it rotated, causing him excruciating pain. Then the flailing stopped just before the driver couldn't take it any more. The riding mechanic had stuck his arm around the driver and put out his forearm to deflect the blows with his own arm.
My definition of "tough".
Posted by: Beater of the Pack

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 12/08/15 08:08 PM

Here's a video of some bad crashes. Some have mechanics. It shows how much mere protected the racers and fans are now. LINK
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 11/30/16 12:55 PM

In these old replicas there are a lot of little "visual delights" that can make a car interesting to see. I thought I would make one of those little visually appealing details today. A heat shield for the exhaust pipe. First I cut a blank of sheet stainless, laid out some cooling holes and rolled a curve in it. Then I made a small belling tool for my DiAcro press so I could put a bell mouth on the holes. This is needed to prevent the shield from becoming a cheese grater on my body parts should I come into contact with it during an upset. I just need to make some stand-off nuts to weld it in place when the time comes.





Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 12/01/16 02:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Beater of the Pack
Here's a video of some bad crashes. Some have mechanics. It shows how much mere protected the racers and fans are now. LINK


I couldn't watch that through to the end. Too close to home.
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 05/29/17 03:42 PM


I did some more shaping on the tail section. Its almost ready to baptize in bondo. Attaching the mounting flanges comes next.



Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 06/30/17 07:06 AM

BUMMER
Photobucket is wanting to charge me to host photos to another site. Sorry guys
Posted by: Beater of the Pack

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 06/30/17 10:15 AM

When we get our new site it will have a hosting feature like the HAMB. laugh
Posted by: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER

Re: Champ Car replica circa 1930s - 12/15/17 11:42 AM

I have this Crane flat tappet cam to trade for a hydraulic one for a Ford 300:

Adv Dur: 274 I / 284 X
Dur @ .050: 231 I / 241 X
Gross lift: .483" I / .486" X
LSA: 110 w/ 3 deg advance built in
Lash: .028" I / .032" X

I need a hydraulic because I'm using non-adjustable rocker arms.