Wound up after some horse trading with a Harper intake for a Mopar. Has anyone ever seen one or have pictures of one? I managed to get a photo or so on the Bench Racing threads. All I've ever run into have been for GM products. click on this link
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HKUDRhHnCBmNUDqE3
You can try this link and maybe toggle thru the pix. no more photobucket so click on this link
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HKUDRhHnCBmNUDqE3
I could see one. Yeah, Once those guys got our pictures they decided to charge us to use them. I'm still in the process of down loading mine from my Picasa account. On the HAMB you can post from your desktop.
Tom I'm using Google now so new link will display more Pix
That's better. What a nice setup, it's got to be very rare.
The 97 is about 165 CFM, way too small (smaller than a Rochester "B" for a 216) for best peak power.
2 major reasons why they were used on V8s back in the day:
1. the Holley 4150 only dates to 1955.
2. the common log manifold with a big cross-over means every cylinder is fed by all the carburetors.
How unfortunate that Stromberg 81, 97 carburetors that are not completely trashed are priced the same as rubies
I've never seen one with the throttle shaft split (which is how all Harpers TIKO work).
Obviously, you can use 3 stock 97s simultaneously (not progressive using the center as the primary) but the entire concept of progressive operation is lost.
If you find a Harper for the wrong brand, an amazing number of L6 vintage engines (OHV and flathead) have 3 siamese intake ports* between 1-1/4" and 1-3/4", and a simple adapter plate to swap the bolt pattern and transition the size (in either direction) fixes that. The center distances: cut & splice the connecting tubes.
Have fun!
* Some older L6 have 4 intake ports, see it before you buy.
I'll post some pictures of my Chev unit when I unload the trailer and show how the linkage works, the inboard butterflies open first to about 1/3 open the outboard side opens and they both continue to WOT. I have some more 97 bases that I'll split and post photos.
Painc, Gary owns or has owned more inline intakes than any one I know. He and his late brother have traveled the West's swap meets where they for years set up an amazing display of vintage speed equipment leaning heavily to inlines. I wish they had published an illustrated reference book of the treasures they have run across. jalopy's margaritas are the highlight of the Hot August Nights swap meet.
I wish I had taken pictures of Titan's Harper setup because it is the most complete survivor set I have seen or heard of. The split shafts and every linkage piece was of a quality seldom seen on hot rod multi carb systems. I'm not sure how well they actually worked but am pretty sure they were expensive compared with what we usually see. The linkage was certainly better built and designed that anything I have ever owned.
That said some more modern two barrels used this way might be interesting if "vintage" is not important.
Thanks for the nice pictures. One thing that struck me was the small balance tubes but that's all they are and not runners.
Yes aircraft quality. After the war there were so many top notch shops and machinists that had been building airplanes. My dad worked for Douglas and I was always amazed by what he could do with pieces of metal. I wish I had payed more attention.
I'm not sure of the actual ID of those connecting tubes, but I would guess 1/4"?
IMHO no actual transfer of air occurs through them (between adjacent carburetors), but they function as a buffer for vacuum pulses at very low engine speeds.
If you're modifying Stromberg 81, 97 etc. remember that they almost certainly have the same jetting etc. in both sides - but they don't have to if you convert them to progressive. Since each primary is small the jetting can be lean for good mileage without reducing response, and the secondary can be rich for maximum power without loss.
I believe the 48 is the largest (common) model that fits the 3-bolt flange, it's about 180 CFM.
NO, do not use the [CFM = D X VE X RPM / 3,456] to get the correct size!!
The only other 2 complete Harper intakes are owned by Tim Tenold (Titan) and Gary Cope. (Gary Cope sent pictures but I cannot find them)Not having any pictures or diagrams that I can find, I made it work the way it was designed to but now see some minor flaws in my design. Hopefully tomorrow I can get far enough into the trailers and totes and pull them out for pictures.
I also have a complete Harper set up with split shaft 97s and the correct progressive linkage. So, that makes at least three known to remain.
Eddie
Eddie,Do you have pictures of it, especially details of the linkage. I'm sure there are more out there. Are you running yours?
No pics right now. Not running now. It is on a 54 model 261, bored .125 over pop up pistons, fenton headers, offy valve cover. I had this built in the mid to late 80s, fired it up for a few minutes and stored ever since. Planning to get it out in the next few(?) months, put on a run in stand and hopefully sell it. I'll be sure to take plenty of pics. then. After 30 odd years I suppose I'll never use it. Besides, I'd rather use the 261 with blower that I have.
Eddie 478-967-3362
I'd like to see the pictures here just to keep them together. I'm sure you'll have no problem selling your Harper setup. There's a guy in Georgia we all know who might use it for patterns.
I'd like to see a similar but scaled up manifold to use 3 X 2 Weber 32/36. One nice thing: you only need 1 pattern for all 3 runners/flanges/ports.
I have a homemade manifold with triple Weber 32/36 carbs on a 302 GMC. It is a scaled up version of the Harper. I made it out of steel exhaust bends, sheet metal and plates. Originally it had rubber hose ( 1 inch I.D.) connecting the 3 runners. I just finished welding all three runners together using 1 3/4 straight tubing. I did the basic design, cut out all the shapes and tack welded them together. A professional welder did the final welding.
As for as performance it does fine, especially when the secondary barrels come in. You can really feel and hear engine accelerate. I think it is because the runners provide a very smooth transition from two barrels into one. Also, the flow rates are always high because the runners have no extra volume to slow the charge down. It also pulls well at less than 1000 rpm in 4th gear.
I am not a wiz at posting pictures but I'll have my son help me tomorrow.
I'd like to see it. Webers are cool! When did Weber side drafts first come out?
The Weber side-draft most familiar is the DCOE 2 throat, which dates to the 1960s AFAIK.
There are other brands with similar designs: the Dell'Orto DHLA and Mikuni PHH, and IIRC some Solex.
The Weber equivalent down-draft IDA dates...?
Something that may be a problem (which has been worked around): the DCOE has many adjustable or replaceable circuits and internal parts but IIRC it does not have a power valve, metering rod, or other high vacuum lean circuit.
This means that your transition must be borderline rich (just enough) or the gas mileage will be bad.
This hasn't been done TIKO, but a small air solenoid and a Hobbs vacuum switch could add air only when throttle position is 10% or more, and vacuum is 10" or more (examples only!). Opens a hose ending inside the air filter, branches to a 1/8-27 NPT fitting in each manifold runner. Insert a restrictor in the main line to regulate how much air to get 15 or 16:1 on cruise, etc.
I use a similar method on my drag cars' 3 x 2 intakes on the idle circuits.
I now have some pics of the Harper progressive linkage. Never have been able to post pics on this site so, if anyone wants to post them, PM me or call with an email address and I'll send them.
Eddie 478-967-3362
Eddie emailed his pictures to me. I can't post them directly here but am trying to link them with another site that hosts pictures. They are the best detail of Harper linkage I have seen and show the intricate adjustments. Rube Goldberg comes to mind. They are big pictures and I'm have some trouble. Panic are you up for this?
SUCCESS: a to the pics on the HAMB:
HARPER Thanks Eddie!
Owww! My head hurts!
Never saw that before.
Extra complexity: all 3 have chokes, which may also be fast idle when active.
Very nice secondary throttle stops.
Not sure if I like the clamps to the lever arms, this needs brain surgery to assemble the first time and disaster if they loosen.
I can't figure out the primary to secondary bell crank - is it supposed to have progressive action (open at a faster rate as the linkage moves)?
I knew that would get you going.
It is truly a Rube Goldberg setup. Eddie said the screws at the rear of the carb on each side are the primary and secondary idle adjustment. He also said the secondaries start opening at 1/3 throttle. I agree the first time you set it up would have been intimidating. You would appreciate the linkage quality. I wonder if the shafts are splined under the linkage? It seems it would need more than a pinch to stay in place.
Now I can see my mistakes, I got it working the way it is supposed to but I ran my throttle arms upward, And yes to the inboard side is 1/3 open then the other side opens, at WOT both sides are fully open, I'm hoping this Dodge Harper is similar.
JM2¢?
Based on the complexity of the linkage, they would have made it as universal "it fits everything we make" as they could.
I agree, but there's some difference in the linkage to the car and the center progressive linkage on the Mopar Harper is a little different.
Here's some photos of my homemade intake manifold similar to the Harper.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ep38w4agbj3rk1n/AABQthpPOykkjjuhVSGR_NaUa?dl=0Hopefully the link works.
Yes, and they're beautiful!
Thanks.
Tom, I'll bring the Harpers down to Reno this year. It's for the 26" or Spitfire engine, just built a stand for it Made some molds for the missing linkage pieces now either have to learn to cast brass or find someone to do small batches.
Gary, I'm looking forward to that. I heard yesterday at our meeting that the swap meet will be at Baldini's this year. Vic and I will see you on Friday as usual. Hope you'll come to the Nugget to watch the cruse with the Inliners and have a late dinner after. Any other Inliners are welcome to join us too.
My son's friend works at a foundry in Moundhouse maybe we can get him to take a look at your molds. Tom
I talked with my son yesterday and he is planning to be with us at the swap meet. He was interested in seeing your Harper set up and molds. The foundry his friend works at does aluminum but he is able to do some stuff at home. I'm sure we can cast brass pieces in a lost wax sand cast set up and get a good enough pieces to machine. My son has a complete machine shop and really likes making unique parts. This could be fun. We'll see if they want to tackle it.
It's a date, Tom , I'm in spaces j/k 27/28, don't have any idea where it's at, no map yet, but I'm guessing I lost my end cap spaces and I'm more than 3 rows from the front gate. I guess 15 years doesn't account for anything.
We'll find you! Does the blender still run?
Got a new blender, just waiting to make some orange blossoms and Margaritas.
A new one? Not a bad idea. It's not good to mix drinks in the same one you clean parts in.
Here's the Harpers, I'm in the process of correcting the linkage on the Chevy and trying to figure out what I need on the Chrysler.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jW2AKN...U=w1299-h974-no
That link isn't working for me.
Well i can see the first one. I'll see them in person in a couple of weeks. I looks like you have some original linkage on the carb bases. That is good.
The swap meet is moved this year to Baldinis Casino on South Rock, which is right between the Grand Sierra and the Nugget.
If the swap meet is in the parking lot where is the parking?
I have no idea, all I know is I got spaces j&k 26&27 and have no Idea where they are, it's the parking lot by the Burger King and fuel Pavilion.
I talked to Gary at the swap meet Friday. I was able to look at a couple of his Harper setups. The one for the MOPAR is backwards from a Chevy. Not just swapped side to side. He is figuring it all out. They are a cool but complicated piece of equipment.
Originally posted by Beater of the Pack
I'd like to see it. Webers are cool! When did Weber side drafts first come out?
Way earlier than you might think...
They were already acknowledged as being something special in the mid-fifties and were in use in Formula 1 then.
I have seen a large carburettor of that type (as in the DCOE), made by Solex, which dated back to WW1, presumably off a tank engine or something.
Ray, Thanks for that information. I was thinking of using one on my 1919 Essex four cylinder in a Vintage style speedster.
Might not SUs be more appropriate?
Especially those old ones with the very tall dashpot cover, they came even taller than these...
Note also that postimage are still free for posting pics.
My concern for using a Weber on that app:
1. what does the OEM intake look like?
2. making an adapter
3. $$$, + tuning parts $$
4. who to ask for jetting recco?
Ray, Yes maybe an SU would be better.
Panic,
1. The head has just one intake port.
2.An adapter is not a problem.
3. I doubt that parts would be a major expense. If so there are other options.
4. I'd ask you of course.
I just got a 300 Ford running on my first set of SUs. Admittedly these could use some work but I'm looking forward to fine tuning them on my champ car project.
Here's a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZQHHJLwwi8&feature=youtu.beAlso, I have a pair of HS3s to sell complete with balance tube. PM me.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1967/44439780924_693953c0bd_z_d.jpg 
Congratulation! That sounds good. Man those things appear to hang way out there. Will they need their own wheels?
If two of those run your big Ford then one would do the Essex.
In the picture especially they hang out quite a bit. Since I wanted them to sit closer to the hood I eliminated the equalizer tube and replaced it with one mounted where the two triangular flanges bolt to the top of the manifold, bringing the carbs closer to the hood line, as shown on the video. I have a feeling I'm gonna like these SUs. New to me so I have some larnin' to do.
From an MGB?
One intake port, Beater? Which engine is it you're playing with?
I wouldn't have thought there'd be any ports in heads...
While we're here, these are the longer tops I mentioned... on a '30s MG:
Once again, posted easily and free with Postimage.
They did look different in the video.
Thanks for the picture Ray. I had a pair of Cus on a Morris Minor many years ago and never had a problem with them.
So here's the deal:
1. I'm brand new to this forum, soooo I'll probably screw up or loose my way.
2. I picked up some Harper intakes at a swap meet, polished them, remanufactured 3 Holley 94's, then put the package into my ebay store, ebay #254178582276. As soon as I figure out how to add photos on this forum I'll do so. I have been contacted by one of the forum members who advised using 3 Holley 94's would only result in flooding the engine. Soooo, since I don't want to build the $$$ exotic dual stage linkage required, I thought I might possibly simply install the smallest jets possible (I believe #44's), then make "very slow actuating linkage" that requires a lot of pedal travel ??? I don't know if this would work, OR if I should just sell the 3 intakes and 3 carburetors as separate items ??? Your thoughts please.
W/r/t "using 3 Holley 94's would only result in flooding the engine"
Meaning, too much gas because the carburetors are too large? That means the engine gets too much air and not enough gas.
They're smaller than the frequently used Stromberg 97, only about 115 CFM each @ 1.5" Hg, 163 CFM @ 3.0" Hg.
I agree with Panic, in MHO you'd be better off selling just the intakes unless you want to go through the trouble of sourcing some 97's and splitting the shafts and manufacturing the linkage, Using 94's would flood the engine out. The 97's work because each side (approx. 57 cfm) is introduced at a time per cylinder pair. The 07's also have shafts long enough to split. You might consider selling them on the Inlinders Swap Meet page.
Gary, I missed you this year in Reno. The swap meet was back at the old place and much better than last year. Vic didn't make it this year because he was bent on taking his brother in law to Bonneville. They got out there on Sunday and on Monday Vic laid down for a nap and didn't wake up. He was in a place he loved with someone who cared a lot for him so that was good, but DAMN I miss him.
An old high school friend sent me a package that came today. It was a Harper intake with carbs and some of the linkage. I haven't had time to really check it out but the carbs are Ford maybe Holley. At least one has a split shaft. The main linkage on the center carb is there and some of the others. I'll check it out more tomorrow and try to post some pictures here or at least a link. I may need some help with the missing parts. Did you ever get yours done? I did see a picture of a MOPAR setup on the HAMB. The center piece goes a completely different way.
I took a better look today. The carbs are all Ford. Two are model 59s one says 8BA. None have split throttle shafts. Only part of the center carb linkage is there and two of the four end carb levers. The carbs were probably stuck on to make it look more complete at some point. I'm pretty sure with it info here and that on a few HAMB threads I could make the rest of the linkage. I don't see why the Ford carbs would not work as would some of the Holleys. I have a few 97s as well. I'd need to make less linkage if I set it up for one of my 4 cylinder projects, either the 153 or the '28 Chevy four. The missing part of the center linkage would be the hardest piece.
I didn't make Reno this year, waiting on doctors to decide if they are going to replace my hip and knee, I have pictures of the Mopar Harper somewhere, the main piece you need is the brass linkage on the center intake, it's different from the Chev unit, 97's are the only ones that have long enough shafts so that linkage arms can be attached to both sides. Running it as a tri-power will just result in an over rich situation. Sorry to hear about VIC. I'll look thru my parts, I made some out of billet aluminum.
Good to hear from you I hope your new parts help you be more mobile. My wife got a new knee and she gets around much better.
I compared my center piece to the one in the pictures on the HAMB. It is different. It only works one side, the outside. There is no idle adjustment. There is only one moving part on the center linkage. I'll take pictures tomorrow. I wonder if mine was a race only set that just ran three twos all at once. I did notice that the Ford carbs had no way to put linkage on the inside where the pumps are.
Can't figure out how to upload pix from Google album or Windows album but I have pictures of the Mopar linkage.
Gary, That link didn't work for me. I can't post pictures here so I posted pictures of my set on the HAMB. You can just drag them from your desk top or files there.
LINK to Harper Thread
Thanks, those are great.
If you have to fabricate these yourself, the longer the links are (between ends) the less perfect they need to be. Since each side is in the same plane, Heim joints aren't really necessary, but if you use clevises (much cheaper) they have to be a tight fit, any slop delays response.
Okay Tom, posted them on the HAMB
Okay Tom aka Beater of the Pack I managed to upload some photos to the photo library now I have to figure out how to get them here, more pictures to follow.
It's not as easy as it once was. I'll be waiting. The ones on the HAMB are good.
Wow! Just stumbled on this thread. I love what you’ve done here. I’ve thought about fabbing a manifold almost exactly the way you’ve done it. I made one for my 302 with rectangular tube and tube elbows for 2 DGV Weber’s and always regretted not making it for 3 . Splitting and stretching one end of 90 bend is exactly what I thought of doing but you beat me to it. I’m really glad to hear that it performs well throughout the rpm range especially low end. What are you running in the way of cam, drive train, rear ratio and such? I was originally going to put mine in an AD truck but now it’s going in a 48 Chevy 4 door.
A 2 × 2 bbl. manifold has to be common plenum, there's no way to divide front 3 cylinders from rear 3 without a 12 port head.
A 3 × 2 bbl. can be 3 separate manifolds (cylinders 1-2, 3-4 and 5-6) or plenum (typically progressive linkage to run on the center carb first).
How are they different?
the 3 × 2 carburetors have to be much larger.
robertf #3850, GMC Manifold w/Three Weber 32/36s - I have been enjoying a 1940 Chevy Coupe with a mild 302 engine since I rebuilt it in 1990 -92. The cam is an Isky E2 #281222 (Clift .298, Vlift .448, Dur 264, Dur@.050 228, Lash .018). It idles well and pulls well up to about 4500 rpm but it is noisy. Transmission is a T-5 non-WC V8 (1st 2.95, 2nd 1.94, 3rd 1.34, 4th 1.0, 5th .63). It works great but 11 inch clutch takes a lot of effort. May change to 200r4 soon. Overdrive is great on Freeway and works fine at 1000 rpm on back roads. Rear is 9 inch Ford with 4:11 gears and positraction. Weight is 3450 lbs. 1/4 mile best is 15.88 seconds and 88.9 mph. Good luck with your 48 Chevy project. Frank Hainey (radar)
I wish there was some way for you guys to post videos here with sound so we could all hear the sweet sounds these engines make.
Sorry for getting off the topic guys. I just thought you'd like the
vids.
