Inliners International Forums General Discussion MOPAR 1946 Chrysler Spitfire 6

Well guys, I am a lurker here and have never really posted too much because I don't have any hot rods with a 6 cylinder in them but I might soon. Anyways here is the whole story...
I found a guy that owns a TON of old things (billions of things, litterally) from the 20's-50's. I was going to his house to drop off a really old motion picture camera (from the 40's or something) and comming into his place I saw a 1946 Chrysler Windsor 3 window coupe. The guy said he would sell it and doesn't know too much about cars. Anyways I getting rid of my 54 Chevy Hardtop and MAYBE my 48 Chevy coupe and with that money I am going to get this car. I have some pictures on The Hamb of this car and the engine. I am guessing it's a 251 since it's a 46 Spitfire flathead 6.
I was wondering where to get some info on this car and also places to get interior and engine parts. I'd like to fix the engine up some and get dual exhaust (lake pipes I'd like) and things to make some more power.
The engine supposedly ran perfect before he parked it 6 years ago or so and I was thinking of putting a V-8 in this but thought about it more and said screw it, I will leave the 6 in it. Steering wheel says "Fluid Drive" on it so I am guessing the tranny is a Fluid Drive.
Basically what I am asking for is any info on the car, websites for engine parts and interior, and if this engine and tranny combo is good enough to keep in the car for cruising around town and even highway driving (60 MPH if possible).
Thanks a lot for any info!

Keep the engine tranny combo. I have a 49 Dodge Coronet with fluid drive. Less power than you have and I drive mine 55 to 60 mph everyday to work. I don't due interstate yet, mine is bone stock mechanically right now but that will change. There are a lot of sites on the web allpar.com, oldmopar.com etc. just keep looking. There are a lot of sources for parts out there check the links of all of these boards and to help you get started here is a page with several links. http://www.50plymouth.com/11-sup/supp.html

SMF,

NAPA dealers can get almost any engine part you need for those old MOPARs. Many models of those flathead engines were used up until about '70 in industrial applications, aircraft tugs, combines, etc, etc.

If you get the car, keep your eye open for a 3-speed tranny with overdrive that will fit it. The fluid drives aren't very fuel effecient, i'm afraid.

nothing sounds nicer than flathead with a set of dual-outlet headers, dual exhausts and a set of Smitty's to me!

Good luck..send photos!

Try www.oldmoparts.com for engine parts, also many other bits.

Thanks a lot for the info guys. Also sorry for a later reply, I am not getting notifications through my email here for some reason. I doubt I will be able to find a 3 speed... As for the dual exhuast with Smithys then that is EXACTLY what I want to do, along with the clear red plug wires and fuel line and dual carb set up. What kind of gas milage do you guys get with your 6's?

I can't answer that...

But I'm sure you can find an overdrive transmission. These were fitted to cars right up to 1960 or so, though the input shafts were longer (which might be a bonus if that fluid drive takes up much room) about '57 to '60.

One guy in Vegas has several, though he probably wants to keep them, but I don't think he's looking for more and therefore might be able to put you on the trail of one.

As will others here.

Alternatively, I'd reckon you could just about fit an A833 overdrive 4-speed (alloy housing A833) without too much trouble, and they're fairly easy to get and fairly inexpensive.

I don't think you'd have a 251, by the way. 245, maybe, but more likely a 218.

Measure the length of the head. If it's under 2' it will be a 201 or 218, if it's over 2' long it may be bigger.

you're right SMF, according to my motor's manual, the '46 winsor only had the 250.6 c.i. (251) engine.

Looks like he's on a winner then!

Yes that is what I thought. Well I am still working out the deal on getting rid of my other hot rod so once that's settled then I will go get this one. I need to hurry though because with my luck I will miss out if I dont. The guy has had it for years but still, I have missed out like this before for example... This has happened to me more than once. There was a old 50 looking Chevy or Pontiac (I can't remember) sitting under a tree out in front of some old house near me. I drove by it everyday for about 4 years. One day I stopped, looked at it real quick and then had to leave. I waited another year probably and then decided I wanted to talk to the owner. The next day I drive over there and as I approach, the guy is loading the car up on a trailor... Darn! Someone got it! I bet the guy gave it away just to get it off of his property too. It was in bad shape but not bad enough for a project. I HATE seeing these old cars and trucks sitting out in the fields even if I don't care for them too much I still want to buy them all and just resell them to someone who will fix em up or keep them all. LOL

There really should be plenty of those flatheads around... they were used in production cars until 1960, and trucks too, and in farm machinery and other industrial uses until well after that time.

Well it's been a while since I have looked into this mopar again and now I am picking it up this Saturday and dragging it home. I can't wait to get it and start cleaning it all up and going through the brakes, wiring and engine. I have a few questions though about this 251 inline 6 engine. I don't know much about them like I mentioned before but I think I will keep it in the car because it is unique and if it works well then I don't see any point in changing it. What I want from this little motor though is for it to be reliable enough to drive whenever I want. I want to get it to where I can drive this car every weekend and about 2 or 3 times every week as well. I like to drive my old vehicles everywhere all the time. What would I need to do to get this thing reliable? Does anyone have a list of things they would look for first when I get this engine and then what they would upgrade such as ignition, wiring, fuel system, air filter, tranny, fluids, etc?
I am thinking things like an electronic ignition and such but not sure. Any oppinions, info and sites would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

When these cars were in daily use they had none of those upgrades, so you shouldn't need to except if you want to enhance the performance a bit...

These are cars that were built to sit on 85mph down very ordinary roads. They probably lacked a bit in the brakes, certainly compared to today, but they did it day in and day out.

With it having sat for so long you're probably wise to change all the fluids, maybe even a couple of times in quick succession. New oil, run the engine for a while, then change it again, maybe make that first lot a nice thin oil too, flush out the sludgey stuff in there with that. Then a new filter with the replacement oil.

Reverse flush the radiator and block before running it, too. Get the gunk out before it blocks up the rad and gets the thing boiling.

Look forward to hearing how you get on with this...

Thanks for the info. I will be sure to do that. What weight oil for the engine would you recommend and brand? How about tranny fluid and how much? I do want to get better performance out of it and a dual carb setup and dual exhaust is on the list. Stovebolt has a electronic setup or HEI with the coil, distributor and such as a kit for 180.00. Is this something that I can use and have it help some? Another thing I am wondering to do is keep it 6 volt or go to 12 volt because the wiring on it now is pretty bad and the lights are all broken, etc so I figured I'd go and redo ALL of the wiring... Not sure yet. At very first I want to get it running to drive around the neighborhood to see what I really need and then tear into the brakes, suspension, engine and tranny. The nice sparkly junk can come last.

Go 12v from the start, I'd say. Much better lighting, easier starting, batteries easier to buy (or swap out of other cars!) and so on. If there's a radio it might be an issue, however.

I'd fire it up initially on 30-weight oil, don't run it too hard, or maybe even a flushing oil. Then get as close to the maker's original recommendation as you can.

Thanks for the info Ray Bell. I finally have the car at home now and have been cleaning it up, tearing the interior out that all the rats nests live in right now and then going to get started on ordering engine parts this week like plugs, wires, oil, filters, etc. The car does need a wiring harness and all new bulbs, etc so I might just do the swap but wondering about the distributor and Alternator or if I should look into getting a 12V generator?

Generater shouldn't be too hard to find... and would look more period.

Distributor will probably need a different condensor, or maybe just get a late model one?

I will look into collecting parts for the 12v conversion. I don't have too much money right now to sink into the car so I want to get it started and running and driving with the money I have now and not spend anymore on something that is not needed.
I have a few questions for you guys though that I still do not have a clue about.
I will put these questions in order here to help keep it organized.

1.) What kind of oil should I run in this thing?
3.) I bought a 6V battery from Napa that was 85 bucks. It's a Napa Commercial battery it says with the diagnal posts on opposite corners. Is this a good battery?
4.) What kind of spark plugs do you recommend using? I bought RJ12C's for it but not sure if they are right. If so then what should I gap these to?
5.) The brakes have no pedal, I dont think there is any brake fluid
in it at all. What kind of brake fluid should be used? I have plenty of DOT 3 here at home so I am hoping this will be fine to use.

You should go through the braking system hydraulics with new rubbers and, if necessary, get the cylinders relined. You may well get brakes if you simply top up and bleed, but they'll be a potential problem down the track... only one has to leak and you've got none!

Any brake fluid should be okay. I would get the car running on a fairly light oil and then go to a heavier grade if it's smokey or burns a lot.

10W 30 oil be ok? I will see about getting brake parts. No local Auto Zone, Advanced or napa carries ANY brake parts for this car so not sure where to go online to get them.
Thanks a lot for the information Ray!

You need to find out what size cylinders you have and find parts to the size, not the model. I think that's the way to do it.

Those cars are foolers. You wouldn't think a little 110HP six in a great big car like that would do anything, but in practice they have all the power you need.

For one thing the car is a lot lighter than it looks, only about 3500 Lbs. This is less than a Ford Taurus or Toyota Camry and not much more than a Mazda Miata. I'm not kidding.

Furthermore the flathead six is all about high torque and a broad powerband not all out horsepower.

It has around 200 ft lbs of torque. This means you won't have any trouble keeping up with traffic, up to 70 MPH anyway.

You can use ordinary 10W30 motor oil. I suggest adding 1 quart of heavy duty diesel rated motor oil at each oil change simply because modern oils are skimping on the additives and the old model engines can use some extra protection.

You don't have to find any special oil, non detergent oil or any of that apcray.

Detergent oil was introduced in the late 40s and chances are your car has never used anything else.

The transmission and fluid coupling call for #10 motor oil. But you can use TDH tractor fluid, ISO32 grade. You can get it at any auto supply or farm supply store.

There is nothing wrong with a 6 volt system. You don't have to change anything just repair whatever is bad. Your car will start and run fine.

You might want to check out the AACA forums. They are all about keeping them stock and on the road. Some of the regulars in the Chrysler section have years of experience with cars like yours and drive them thousands of miles each year, on the stock engine and trans and 6 volt systems.

http://forums.aaca.org/ubbthreads.php/ubb/cfrm

Parts ARE available.

A pimple faced kid in a brand new shiny shop won't be able to help you.

You need to find an old bald headed or gray headed parts man in a dusty old shop.


Don't expect them to be in stock but they should be able to get most anything you need in 3 days.

I am referring here to mechanical parts such as brakes, tune up parts, fan belts, tires, etc.

For body parts and chrome you are pretty much on your own.

Have been told NAPA is about the best place to go. But you need a counter man who knows how to look up obsolete part numbers. They have everything you need in the warehouse but they have to have a part number to find them.

There are also speciallists like Andy Bernbaum
http://www.oldmoparts.com/

Kanter Products and others.

I have a plymouth '38 P6 coupe with a
'48 Dodge 230. It develops full torque at 1200 rpm, just off idle. Pulls in third around town like a bandit. The car weighs 2800 lbs.
I use 20-50. good for summer and winter in Cal. The oil stays clean for a long time, and doesn't use much.
The chrysler flatheads are hard to beat. you can really lug them down. Great engines.

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back here and post... I do not get email notifications from here for some reason and keep forgetting. Anyways, thanks a lot for all the help and information. I have put the project on hold for now but plan to start back on it in August.