Inliners International Forums General Discussion Blown and Injected turbo 292 write up

i've got a little time so i try and document my motor.
block is a 1964 casting bored 60 over. no other major mods to block.

head also 1964 casting. blended bowls, PES bolt in lumps, V 8 springs not high pressure. ferrea valves 1.90 intakes, 1.6 exhaust.stock rocker arms.arp head studs. just using pressed in studs as there is no high rpm or pressures. real light blending of chambers.

cam is custom ground by comp for a turbo setup. the specs are .521/.512 int/exh, duration @.50 are 218 int/ 212 exh, lobe separation 114 cam # is C62 5432/5211 H 114.

oiling modifications, blocked oil bypass, restricted front timing oiler spout, added 1/4" exterior port to oil turbo. stock size pump.
standard rod and main bearings.

for gaskets felpro makes a race set for the six's still. it includes the good head gasket 1025.

old style trw forged truck pistons TRW 2199F(very heavy design), stock rings. arp rod bolts, balanced rotating assy. using a fisher harmonic damper.

for induction clifford 4 bbl intake with homemade adaptor for a 2000 chevy 5.3 throttle body. six 42 lb injectors were also added to the intake ports @ a 45 degree angle.

i used a turbo specific exhaust manifold mated to a turbonetic 62-1 turbo. the turbo has a passage for water coolant and oil lubrication. to control boost i am using a turbonetics racegate wastegate.

also used is a intercooler to help keep the air charge denser and reduce detonation.

to control the fuel injection a holley commander 950 is used. tied into it is a fjo wide band O2 sensor and for timing control i am using a chevy hei from a 81 calif truck application with spark control.

the engine is not totally tuned yet but i am very impressed with the performance. it was not cheap to build, but i wanted to build it right.

i am happy answer all questions.

here are some pics. tom

Looks very nice.!!
Do you have any pics of your intercooler & plumbing?

Hank

It looks to me like a well thought out aproach and execution on those pictures.Congratulations,keep us posted as the tuning comes around.Hector.

hank , the intercooler is a spearco. inlet and outlet on one end. finned area measures 18 long by 6 tall. 3.5" thick. inlets are 2.5". i believe it is rated at over 600 hp. it is a parralel design, which means the tubes are short. they go the 6 inch direction and are of a square design. in the pic's the output of the turbo goes dirrectly to the intercooler. not pictured is the return to the throttle body. it would have blocked some stuff for the pic's. i started the install the end of the first week of may. had it running first week of june. had to sacrifice my hood latch assy for the intercooler. now i've got the old school hood pins. through all this my back has been killing me. i've had a scan done and it shows a compressed l5, which is sqeezing my right sciatic nerve. may have to have surgury. tom

Looks good and well thought out. If you have a reputable chassis dyno it may be worth the extra bucks. I took mine to a chassis dyno and he showed me things that would have taken me a year to figue out at the race track.

Steven

Just wanted this to come to the top again.

no problem. here are a few additions. added stage 8 locking fastens to the fly wheel bolts( i must have forgotten to tighten them?) upgrade from 42 lb injectors to 60 lb units. the engine would run lean in upper rpm under full boost (12-15 lbs). added a bigger turbine housing to slow down the turbo's boost ability. it can wick up real fast. also found a mustang chassis dyno within a hr drive. i may try it out. tom

That great!!!
It should really make a lot of torque.

How is it w/the larger turbine housing?

Also the injectors?


MBHD

tlowe, are you using a bov? Are you retarding the timing when the boost comes on? Also are you using a boost referenced fuel regulator? I run turbos on a BB Chev. using MSD 6BTM, works great. My wife had the same problem with her back as you are having, she took the 3 shots in the back last summer, it worked good for her. Good luck, and like your setup. Cya

gh, i am running a bov, you can sure hear it when letting off the throttle while under boost. there is a boost referenced fuel regulator. 1 lbs boost in fuel per lb of turbo boost. i do retard the timing. it is control by my holley fuel injection computer. i run the timing all the way down to 22 degrees under full boost. the dist is a 1981 calif emmisions hei, it has no vacum can, got it from orielly's. for my back, ended up having a simple surgery to relieve the pressure on the sciatic. it is not fixed but the pain is nearly 100% gone, whew.

mbhd, the weather is just starting to break here, it will be another month before it sees the road. winter is slow to release it's grip on us.

Tom:
What A/R turbine housing did you end up going with? I got my eye on a 60/69 turbo on eBay. Do I need to go bigger on the turbine end? I was going to get a 3.0L Marine electronic distributor base and put in the 4.3L guts to run the timing. Same size and proportions as our 6. I think the MegaSquirt will interface.(?)

May I ask what your can of $$$ is in your setup?

on a 292 a 60-1 or a 62-1 turbonetics compressor with a p trim exhaust wheel and .68 exh housing would be very good choices. my first turbo setup spooled way to quick and hard.
brad, cost? more than i care to add up, but in the turbo/manifolds/ injection stuff is around 25-2700 range. the long block is not that "built". tom

Tom, you are using a ,82 or something close to that on your turbine housing now,,, correct?

MBHD

yes, but i have a stage 5 wheel, not a p trim.

Tom, thanks. Glad you could make it through my horrible spelling and sentence!

Want to keep this on top as much as possible.

Keeps slipping down, needs a lift up.........

tlowe,,
quick question, did you install the polly urethane engine mounts?
If so, how do you like them, & does the engine move around?
Thanks
MBHD

Video?

hank, i still have rubber mounts. it moves much less than with 6 cyl mounts. for those that do not know, i am using v8 rubber mounts. i am planning on changing to interlocking mounts next.

inline300, no video yet, but when i get it it will be posted. any suggestions for free video posting. good ones, with some loading speed. tom

You can always use YouTube or StreetFire.net

Photobucket.com seems to work ok too.

Or you can give me a copy of it some how and I'lladd it to the Videos I already have up on my site. If it is in VHS format I can load it onto my comp. edit and Up load it. I can even Put it on DVD/CDs what ever

well, i went to a local track end of june. i had a less than stellar showing. i could not get any traction because i am running some cheap too skinny tires. 4 runs @ 16 flat with 2.3 60 ft. needless to say i had a few problems. traction was bad as i said earlier. it would spin badly in second gear also. i do now have a 3.55 geared posi in it. it would also power down near the end of the track, just lose power. so after 2 runs like that i began logging my runs on a laptop. my fuel system will do this. what a neat tool to have. i can log air/fuel mixture, rpm, spark, water temp, boost, timing, intake air temp and many other things. it showed me some of the problems i was having.
i have been running the timing very conservative and @ full boost it was set @ 20 also have been running the fuel mixture the same way and had it at 10.75-11 @ full boost. i ended up logging 2 runs.
the next day i took it out and started leaning up the mixture. eventually getting it close to 12 to 1 under full boost. that woke up the motor quite abit. then i started bringing in more timing 1 point at a time and testing. so far i have brought it up to 24 with no signs of pinging. with the timing increase the motor is really starting to wake up.
i am going to get some bigger tires (enough to fill the wheel well) and try again in mid august. tom

Tom,

What MPH did you run and how heavy is the car with you in it? You should be able to run 26 to 28 deg's timing on 94 octane and 12.5 to 12.8:1 AFR. Watch your plugs as you increase the timing. You may want to consider killing a bit of boost while in 1st gear... back your waste gate off and then add a vacumm solenoid to bleed some of the signal off that goes to the waste gate when not in 1st gear so you can get full boost, add a needle valve in series with the solenoid so you can control the bleed rate accurately. Some of the 700R4's have a pressure switchs on the valve body that closes when in 2,3&4th... you could wire this up to the solenoid so as soon as your in 2nd the solenoid opens...

Marc

i am going to try and bump up the timing more. i also figured out with my data logs why i was losing power at the big end of the track. my a/f ratio's were going up, you could say they were spiking. so i taped a fuel pressure guage to the windshield and found the fuel pressure climb with boost and maintain until about the middle of 3rd gear, then the pressure would unexpectedly drop. not all the way . but enough to lean it and cause loss of power. i have sumped the tank allready and have a pump that should easily supply thge fuel i need. i may still be low on fuel and just missing the sump and have it slossed to the rear for too long, enough to drain the sump? so i am going to try it next with a plumb full fuel tank.
my mph was only 89-90 mph (please don't laugh). i'll get all the pieces working together yet. tom

Tom,

New system gremlins... a full tank will also help with traction... You might want to put an air bag inside the RH rear coil and pre-load the suspension a bit.


Marc

I also told Tom in an email to get some M/T drag radials.
Edelbrock,, upper & lower rear end four link bars.
Air bag,etc & so-on.

The next issue I forsee after he gets some traction is that the torque converter stall is too low for a 1/4 type car, but I know he is not that interested in making it a track vehicle.

MBHD

With a lockup torque converter you can get away with a 2200 rpm convertor and get it to lock in 2,3,&4th. I have a 2200 rpm convertor in my s/w with a 700R4 and its fine. A 100HP shot of NO2 for 1/2 sec coming off the line does wonders for getting the turbo to spool.. a local Ford guy has a 2.3 inline 4 turbo motor in a fox body mustang.. runs low 11's @ 125 mph this is at 3500' ASL. He runs a 150HP shot off the line.

efi-diy
MBHD [/qb][/QUOTE]With a lockup torque converter you can get away with a 2200 rpm convertor and get it to lock in 2,3,&4th. I have a 2200 rpm convertor in my s/w with a 700R4 and its fine. A 100HP shot of NO2 for 1/2 sec coming off the line does wonders for getting the turbo to spool.. a local Ford guy has a 2.3 inline 4 turbo motor in a fox body mustang.. runs low 11's @ 125 mph this is at 3500' ASL. He runs a 150HP shot off the line. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Yeh, I think his converter stalls to 1200-1400 RPM that = too low.
I seriously doubt he will put a Nitrous shot on the Elky, he says he is not that much into racing.

RevOD has a friend w/a 4 cyl Fox body Mustang that recently ran 8's set a new record.

MBHD

when i had my tranny built, my guy said he had 2 convertors to choose from. stock which was 1600 rpm and one with alittle higher stall 1800 rpm. i got the second one. i do not seem to have any torque or boost problem off the line. it is simply a traction problem. boost fully in by 2nd gear and then i see another traction problem in second. i seriously do not think this tranny is going to survive. the 2nd gear shifts are so brutal at full boost. even the 3rd gear shift is a tough one.
bigger tires are coming.
i did get to drive it more now that vacation is all done.
with a full tank of fuel and a fuel guage on the windshield. @ full boost , pressure is 52ish.now the fuel pressure does not drop down until the very end of 3rd gear. i believe that maybe my 42 lb injectors are pulse widthed out? according to the computer they are close to max. within 10%. maybe i'll change to my 50 lb injectors. with the bigger injectors, i will be able to run less pressure and shorter pulse widths.

any other thoughts on the fuel pressure dropping out after being at full boost and high rpm in 3rd gear? tom

tlowe I.I,,,,,,

First question,,,can you hold the brakes & build boost pressure to say 8,9,15 lbs & then release the brakes.
If not ,I recommend installing a hydra boost brake setup.

Second Q, how much boost pressure can you make by holding the brake pedal down as hard as you can?

Third Q, what size is your fuel line/hose?

Are you using any of the factory fuel line?

What pump are you using, fuel filter, regulator?

Having too small injectors will not cause your fuel pressure to drop off, you have other issues in you fuel system if you are seeing a fuel pressure drop.

Installing bigger tires will help w/traction,but you haveing a turbo ,292 & in an El Camino(light in the rear end) are all the cause of not having any traction.
One of the worst things to get bad traction, is to have stiffer rear end coil springs than stock.

Now if you really want to get serious on traction w/out going overboard.

Like I stated earlier, Get the Edelbrock upper & lower four link bars,right side air bag,a stiffer right rear coil spring(to launch straight) & a set of Mickey Thompson Drag radials.

I know you can't fit too wide a tire on those ,,,but you can install sorta tall tires, which will give you more rubber contact patch to the ground. If you can get a tire like 29" tall 9"s wide it should hook pretty good.

A lot of turbo cars for the street like a 3.42 rear gear ratio.


I know my Syclone(4.3 V-6) is not a good comparision, but,,my torque converter stalls to 2100 RPM,
& it takes little time to get it to boost up to 6-10 lbs @ 2100 & my cam specs are around 175 degrees duration @ .050 = wimpy :-).
Makes peak HP @ 3800 RPM. 386 HP Dynoed.
So I would think 1800 stall converter must be pretty hard to get full boost on a launch.

My Syclone has 3.42 gears w/a 700R4.

Glad to hear it's running, & for the update!

Not trying to be bossy or anything ,just trying to give you some ideas.

MBHD

hank, i'll check how much boost i can build while braking.

i did find a problem though. in the shop i triggered the fuel pump relay and measured the voltage to the pump at the pump. it was 10.7 @ 55 psi. so i changed all the wiring to a larger guage and retested. had 11.8 with no motor running and 12.5 @ battery. it is better and the pump sounds it too. i have yet to try it on the road to see if it makes a difference. measured up what back spacing i can use with a 8 " rim. will order those tomorrow.
my fuel pump is a holley 12-920 which is a 480pph pump. it should be more than sufficient. and is quiet. tom

Good find, having the voltage that low will make the pump not put out the proper fuel flow.

Kenne Bell, has a Boost a pump, that you can increase voltage as boost increases, even if your alternator fails.
I have one, I just bought it for my Syclone.

I would guess the back spacing would be 5".
I had a 1965 SS Malibu ,I sold it to my friend.
Good luck!

MBHD

Just curious, you are running a relay to power the pump? What gauge wire did you move up to? Most of a volt drop still sound high to me (but then I tend to use wire that is WAY bigger than is actually necessary).

i was running a 16 guage wire. now a 12 guage. the relay is triggered from the computer. tom

well, did some more testing with the elco this weekend.
hank, when holding the brakes, it will break the tires loose before boost registers.
i looked at the data logs for a run and could see on launch, boost builds to the wastegate setting, almost instantly (.25 sec). also, that boost is hit before 2k rpm. boost still climbs after that. but i am now used to that and have tuned for it.
i no longer have my fuel pressure problem, as the larger wire cured it. it should see the track again this fri. tom

Tom,
sounds like you could use a hydraboost brake setup. Your brakes can't hold.
At the very least, install larger rear wheel brake cylinders.
I did this on my Syclone & it made a big difference/improvement.
If you want your Elky to launch desent, you need to launch w/boost.
Did you get some sticky tires,because if you spun bad before & it was not running that good,watch out now if it's running good.

MBHD

hank,
i messed up reading my data log. it takes longer than .25 sec to boost. from my calc's boost reach's about 11.6 lbs at maximum rpm.
i did get some bigger tires ( 1" more rubber per side than before). i have even larger ones ordered that will add 1 more " yet per side. tom