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I've made about a 3 hour effort looking for information on this engine that is sitting in my shop. I have no idea what it is. and the more I look the more frustrated I'm getting. I did look, honest. I'm a fabricator, if you want this engine in something, I got you covered, right down to making all the parts in CAD. What I'm not, is an engine guy.  ...lol... But I'm trying.  Pics tell a thousand words. and all I've been able to gather is that perhaps it's a 230 or a 250...      Information on the site here confused me with it's answer. Is it a 230 or a 250? 62-78 230-250 another site:http://www.thedirtforum.com/ubb/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20040201-20-000279.htmlSays this:1965-70 230 3.8 3.875 L-6 Specify if Dipstick is 6" or 11" from rear of block 3850817 (or)1967-72 250 4.1 3.875 L-6 7" from Rear Dip 2 Bolt Starter. 3850817 (or)1967 250 4.1 3.875 L-6 Chevy II Only 11" Dip Location. 3850817
I'm up for any help. As near as I can tell, the only difference between a 230 and a 250 is 1" difference on the dipstick location????
Last edited by vectorsolid; 04/16/09 05:47 AM.
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it has car motor mounts. do not use them.
nice dual exhaust manifolds.
truch bellhousing? if it measure 5 1/8 hole, with the rear mounts
pull a plug and see if it has dished pistons. dished = 250, flat top =230.
just to get you alittle. if you do a search here. this has been covered many times.
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the code letters went to 3 letter starting in '70.
The casting date code is next to the dipstick.
CA comes up as a 1968 full size Chevy 250 with manual trans. per my Motors manual.
The reason the casting number says 230 or 250 is because the blocks are the same. The stroke is what's different, hence the difference in the top of the pistons.
A shallow dish to the tops of the pistons would seal it as a 250.
Or, you could drop the pan and check the casting number on the crankshaft as a last resort.
I.I. #3174
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the code letters went to 3 letter starting in '70.
The casting date code is next to the dipstick.
CA comes up as a 1968 full size Chevy 250 with manual trans. per my Motors manual.
The reason the casting number says 230 or 250 is because the blocks are the same. The stroke is what's different, hence the difference in the top of the pistons.
A shallow dish to the tops of the pistons would seal it as a 250.
Or, you could drop the pan and check the casting number on the crankshaft as a last resort.
250 eh?According to what I found, the "CA" part is for a 65-66 chevyII and Malibu, and 67 Malibu with a 230cid with manual.
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just to get you alittle. if you do a search here. this has been covered many times.
I know you're just jabbin, that's cool. This isn't as easy as you might think. But covered many times is not the same as accurately answered. As far as I can tell, "Casting numbers" has been in the thread title of a thread about 6 times in the last year, relative to a block. All point in different directions for "ideas".. If it had been accurately answered, somebody would have posted in each thread, "not a problem, go to this EXACT thread, type in your stuff, get your answer". This is not the case. IF that is the case, somebody needs to start a definitive thread. I'd appreciate it if nobody else would. ...lol... Each thread is full of a lot of guessing, speculation and wild goose chasing. If there were an EXACT thread or site, I'd love to see it. Each thread on castings would be 2 posts long. "I need information...", and the reply, "simply go here..." and it's done. We don't have that (that I could find). gonna take a bit more work, but right now, it's believed I have either a 230 or a 250, one guy says he found 250, I found data for 230. Yep, been covered many times (that's a little good humor poke back at ya). ...lol...
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it has car motor mounts. do not use them.
nice dual exhaust manifolds.
truch bellhousing? if it measure 5 1/8 hole, with the rear mounts
Don't use the motor mounts, or don't use the engine? "...Nice exhaust manifolds"... are they actually nice, or junk as in sarcasm? Should I pitch or use them? Bellhousing question looks like 1/2 a question. Like it's missing the last half. "..with the rear mounts, THEN blah...blah...blah..." I'm not trying to be a "Wisenheimer", I really don't know crapola about this project, but am trying to learn.
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I think what Tom was trying to say was don't use the car motor mounts they won't handle any serious hp, i.e. turbo. Again on the exhaust use Stovebolts cast exhaust manifolds, you will find they better than the the tube headers. On the bell housing it looks like from your pic that you may have a truck bell housing with the motor mounts on both sides. If so then up to 68 they had a 4 13/16(?) hole for the tranny 68-72 they have 5 1/8 hole. Which is to say a lot of the later trannies will fit the 5 1/8.
btw the HEI distributor you have with the external coil was only used 74-76.
Do you have an idea what your plans are yet?
Larry
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Hi Vector.
This is a good one. A nice mix of parts from different eras like a '62-'63 valve cover, pre '68 head. I'm thinking you have a '70s era block, which would make it a 250. What's the casting number behind the dipstick? I think I see a 4 as the last digit.
Martin
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Guys, I really appreciate the kindness and courtesy. Hard to find on a forum sometimes. Larry,For all intents and purposes I'm building a little 125" altered with this inline engine in it. I plan to leave it largely stock with the manual transmission. Kind of an old school traditional drag car from back in the day. Slow is okay. I'm guessing it's going to be a low 15's car. 140hp? I'll mount the block hard to the frame, no motor mounts. I'll whip out a header, and maybe an intake with another carb on it. Fun stuff. For this car, it ain't about how fast you go, it's how you go fast. Style and cool win out... for me... on this build. Strummin',
Behind the dipstick (I just had a flashback to that commercial...(with your best Scottish accent) "Now your thinkin with yer dipstick Jimmy") Looks 1104 behind the dipstick. Pulled a plug, although I'm not a piston guy, they looked pretty dang flat, no dish.
Last edited by vectorsolid; 04/17/09 05:35 AM.
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September 10th, '64 or '74.
You're at the point of pulling the head or the pan as already mentioned for a positive ID on displacement.
Martin
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September 10th, '64 or '74.
You're at the point of pulling the head or the pan as already mentioned for a positive ID on displacement. Seriously? You have to disassemble the engine to ID it?
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Sounds like a fun project, I wish I had the skills to build a car from sctratch. I hope to get my 63 C20 truck with a 292 on the strip some year. The 292 is the reason I'm an Inliner there is so much information here you can spend days reading it. I know searching for it usually returns too little or too much. If the the board search function doesn't work for you try googling it i.e. "keywords site:www.inliners.org", loose the quotes of course.
Sounds like you have a 230, if what you need for the class is a 250 you'll need a crank. I'm not an expert so there may be more.
Larry
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The "CA" code is usually the key to a positive ID but it's not helping us in this case. As mentioned you can pull the pan and look at the crank casting number or pull the head and look at the pistons. If they're dished then it's a 250. If you pull the head then you can measure the stroke. I'm out of town and don't have my book to give you the 250's stroke. Anyone have that number handy?
Martin
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I mentioned the fact that a two character serial number would narrow it down to before 1970...
I mentioned what I found for CA because it just goes to show that Chevy did reuse serial numbers....
I asked for the casting date because that would help narrow it down, since CA is used more than once...
I104 would suggest Sept. 10 1964, as mentioned. Considering the late date, it would actually be a 1965 model year engine. Remember,casting dates are by calendar year not model year...
Looking at my Hollander interchange manual, CA corresponds to a 1965 Chevelle 230 with manual tranny. You said the pistons are flat tops. Sounds like a 230 then. If that's not good enough of an answer, then you will need to pull the pan and check the casting number on the crankshaft...
Last edited by gearhead; 04/19/09 04:00 AM.
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Sounds like a 230 then. If that's not good enough of an answer, then you will need to pull the pan and check the casting number on the crankshaft... Would you be confident enough to order parts before tearing it down? I appreciate everybodys efforts. I really do. Is it like this with all of the inline motors? Where you really don't know exactly what it is, unless it's apart?
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Since GM used the same block for both the 230 and 250, the difference being the stroke and piston, the only visual identification is the top of the piston.
The usual practice before ordering parts is to tear down the motor. Unless you know the history on the motor there is no way to know if there is a major problem with out tearing it down. A major problem would be a broken piston ring that has scored the cylinder so bad it can't bored over sized and requires a sleeve. Bearings for the crank are another item that until the machine shop has ground the crank and eliminated the wear you don't know what size is required.
There is also another engine code that seems to have been overlooked. That code is stamped stamped on the distributor pad. That code still won't eliminate the possibility that someone hasn't rebuilt a 230 into a 250.
Another consideration is the class rules that you will be running your altered in. If you looking to be competitive what will the rules allow. The 292 six used a larger 1bbl carb and exhaust manifold.
btw the preferred method to posting pics is to post the link only.
Larry
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I wouldn't order anything until you tear it down an see what you need.
Last edited by strummin67 I.I.; 04/20/09 12:36 PM.
Martin
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Exactly. How are you going to order bearings and pistons if you don't know if the block needs to be bored or the crankshaft turned?
The only parts that are different between the 230 and 250 are the pistons and the crankshaft.
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Exactly. How are you going to order bearings and pistons if you don't know if the block needs to be bored or the crankshaft turned?
The only parts that are different between the 230 and 250 are the pistons and the crankshaft.
There's more to order and locate than pistons. And a lot of it is finding the source. Additionally, I'm not so much trying to find out what it is so that I could rebuild it. I'm trying to get a positive ID so I can find out if I SHOULD rebuild it. If the motor has bad support and parts just aren't out there, I'd abandon that one and try again. Just like the little 2.3 litre Vega motor. I found out it had NO support in the aftermarket and abandon that project. Now that I know (according to you blokes) that the only difference between the 230 and the 250 is the pistons and crank, I could effectively look for gasket sets, rods, intake manifold, exhaust flanges, etc. and make other decisions that aren't based around the unknown elements (namely pistons and crank), and how bad the block is relating to them. This is all new to me, and I didn't want to spend a week looking for 230 parts to find out I had a 250 and start over. That's all I was trying to get across on that. and just to poke a little fun around the thread here, this thread would have been a lot shorter if somebody had simply said, the following, right off the bat, rather than playing musical chairs with a guy that has never played musical chairs and is new to the game. "It's either a 230 or a 250, everything is the same between them, EXCEPT the pistons and crank. AND, regardless of all the casting numbers, the only way to get a positive ID is to tear it down, there is no other way, so stop examining all the numbers on the block". Would have saved a lot of time. ...lol...
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maybe you should have started your thread by saying what you are wanting in a motor. we could have steered you in the right way to start with. 250's are easy to find. gm made them from 1967 - 1985?
you need a motor with a non integrated head (like the one you have), use pistons for a 307 chevy v8, rebuild the stock rods, pick a cam and do some serious head work.
these engines have a small aftermarket to support them and a wealth of knowledge held by the guy's that have done these for years.
maybe go to the CLUBB STUFF on the left side of screen and buy the INLINE 6 POWER mANUAL to get started.
tom
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Exactly. How are you going to order bearings and pistons if you don't know if the block needs to be bored or the crankshaft turned?
The only parts that are different between the 230 and 250 are the pistons and the crankshaft.
There's more to order and locate than pistons. And a lot of it is finding the source. Additionally, I'm not so much trying to find out what it is so that I could rebuild it. I'm trying to get a positive ID so I can find out if I SHOULD rebuild it. If the motor has bad support and parts just aren't out there, I'd abandon that one and try again. Just like the little 2.3 litre Vega motor. I found out it had NO support in the aftermarket and abandon that project. Now that I know (according to you blokes) that the only difference between the 230 and the 250 is the pistons and crank, I could effectively look for gasket sets, rods, intake manifold, exhaust flanges, etc. and make other decisions that aren't based around the unknown elements (namely pistons and crank), and how bad the block is relating to them. This is all new to me, and I didn't want to spend a week looking for 230 parts to find out I had a 250 and start over. That's all I was trying to get across on that. and just to poke a little fun around the thread here, this thread would have been a lot shorter if somebody had simply said, the following, right off the bat, rather than playing musical chairs with a guy that has never played musical chairs and is new to the game. "It's either a 230 or a 250, everything is the same between them, EXCEPT the pistons and crank. AND, regardless of all the casting numbers, the only way to get a positive ID is to tear it down, there is no other way, so stop examining all the numbers on the block". Would have saved a lot of time. ...lol... Isn't that basically what I said in my first post?
I.I. #3174
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Isn't that basically what I said in my first post?
Not really. There was no mention of "The only way to tell" is to drop the pan. Just that it was "a last resort". Which leads people to believe (at least it lead me to believe) that there is still another way to positively ID the engine with only casting information visible on the block. Which we have now found is not accurate. Based on the information presented here, there is no definitive way to tell a 230 from a 250 (via external casting numbers on the block) without dropping the pan and checking crank casting numbers.Does that sound about right? If so, it will help the next guy when he finds himself in a similar situation. I don't know any of this stuff, there is no assuming going on. I really don't know.
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maybe you should have started your thread by saying what you are wanting in a motor. we could have steered you in the right way to start with. 250's are easy to find. gm made them from 1967 - 1985?
you need a motor with a non integrated head (like the one you have), use pistons for a 307 chevy v8, rebuild the stock rods, pick a cam and do some serious head work.
these engines have a small aftermarket to support them and a wealth of knowledge held by the guy's that have done these for years.
maybe go to the CLUBB STUFF on the left side of screen and buy the INLINE 6 POWER mANUAL to get started.
tom We'd have still been in the same boat, with me having 2 un-identifiable engines that needed to be identified (which we did), and then now subsequently, ruled out? Didn't know what I needed in a motor, because I don't know what I had to start with, and there in was the rub. I could have been looking around for something I already had, but didn't know it. The inline 6 manual sounds like good reading. Appreciate the tip on that.
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vector,
if i were a betting man, i would say your engine is a 65 230. it has the correct valve cover and motor mounts for the application. the dist is from the mid 70's and was probably put on for less maintenance.
250 cranks are easy to get, just order whatever piston you need new or use 307 sbc pistons off the shelf. tom
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There's information out there and some of us have more than others. But then we can still find ourselves learning as we go. It's not always as straightforward as we'd like it to be.
Martin
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