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#59027 - 07/10/10 02:48 PM 12 port Aluminum heads available. 194-292 Chevy
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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Just an FYI.

Mike Kirby has more of his 12 port aluminum heads avaialble.

He also informed me IIRC,about 7 of those heads are going to Brazil,,,I guess after seeing what Douglas' car could do by just a few track visits 8.6 @ 165 MPH (going off of memory),the competition & others took notice.


So if you guys want the ultimate cyl head out there for a 194-292 L6 engines,here is your chance.

Nothing in it for me for posting this.


MBHD
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#59029 - 07/10/10 04:44 PM Re: 12 port Aluminum heads available. 194-292 Chev [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
russk Offline
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MBHD:

Thanks for the "heads up". I'll give Mike a call first thing Monday morning and get my order placed, hopefully before these heads are all spoken for (perhaps with no more to follow?).

Russ


Edited by russk (07/10/10 04:44 PM)

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#59051 - 07/12/10 09:39 AM Re: 12 port Aluminum heads available. 194-292 Chev [Re: russk]
6inarow I.I. #1475 Offline
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Do you have a contact info? Phone number? Email?
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#59052 - 07/12/10 03:34 PM Re: 12 port Aluminum heads available. 194-292 Chev [Re: 6inarow I.I. #1475]
panic Offline
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Not to be a wet blankie, but this is generally the point where you run some numbers, and discover that the 400 HP normally aspirated L6 costs about 3 times that of a V8 of similar power, and several thousand more than a 4200 of similar power.

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#59053 - 07/12/10 04:34 PM Re: 12 port Aluminum heads available. 194-292 Chev [Re: panic]
jalopy45 #4899 Offline
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If low cost power was the driving force here I don't believe this forum would be doing as well as it is. This is more like a let's see what I can do with what I got and do it better than anyone else. I personally like the uniqueness of the inline power plant, I have several vehicles that are in one or another unique and have rebuilt or rodded them because I don't want a sbc/th350 '32 Ford or '55 Chev. So money permitting the aluminum 12 port head would add to that factor. But this all just my personal opinion.
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#59054 - 07/12/10 04:47 PM Re: 12 port Aluminum heads available. 194-292 Chev [Re: jalopy45 #4899]
chevman32 Offline
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What is the price for the 12 port?

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#59063 - 07/13/10 06:41 AM Re: 12 port Aluminum heads available. 194-292 Chev [Re: jalopy45 #4899]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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 Originally Posted By: jalopy45 #4899
If low cost power was the driving force here I don't believe this forum would be doing as well as it is. This is more like a let's see what I can do with what I got and do it better than anyone else. I personally like the uniqueness of the inline power plant, I have several vehicles that are in one or another unique and have rebuilt or rodded them because I don't want a sbc/th350 '32 Ford or '55 Chev. So money permitting the aluminum 12 port head would add to that factor. But this all just my personal opinion.


Very well spoken.

Everyone has a V-8,anyone can make good HP numbers w/them.

I & others think outside the box & like to be different,even if it cost mucho $$$.

MBHD

OOOhh,,,,Head cost,,,, well,,, need to contact Mike for the latest prices & options.
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#59065 - 07/13/10 08:20 AM Re: 12 port Aluminum heads available. 194-292 Chev [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
russk Offline
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MBHD:

Got through to Mike yesterday and spoke to him for about 30 minutes. He gave me the full story about the 12-port heads and how this current (maybe last?) batch came into being. It does look like 5 heads will be heading down to Brazil and there are two of us (me included) that have pending orders in the queue. I'm not sure how many heads are still available.

6inarow: You can visit Mike's web site at:

http://www.sissellautomotive.com

He's located in Covina (SoCal) and the phone is:

(626) 311-2727

You'll probably need to leave a message but Mike got back to me within a couple of hours.

Russ

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#59066 - 07/13/10 08:43 AM Re: 12 port Aluminum heads available. 194-292 Chev [Re: russk]
panic Offline
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My point is not to discourage a serious effort at obtaining maximum power from the Gen-3, but rather that this is not a "magic bullet", but a very expensive component that must be considered on a cost-benefit basis, and one that will certainly require a lengthy shopping list of other speed equipment to be put to best use (along with re-thinking axle ratio, transmission choices and stall speed).
I hate to see casual interest, in many cases posted by owners of vehicles with limited budgets, in which sticker shock is the reaction to both the price, and the fact that it doesn't do very much as a bolt-on (it doesn't add 100 hp).
Since the actual price has not been mentioned, let me suggest that the finished castings alone (not the valve gear, manifold, header) are considerably more than these cars cost when new, and much more than a turbo or blower installation costs as a DIY.

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#59069 - 07/13/10 11:13 AM Re: 12 port Aluminum heads available. 194-292 Chev [Re: panic]
56er Offline
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Just a few points: Last time these heads were like 3500-4K, and I can't imagine them being even that cheap what with the changes in metal prices etc. Even Mike Kirby himself told me that for 500hp and below, a lump ported head with a power adder is more cost effective (and 500hp is a lot of motor for most of us). Remember you have to get specific intake manifolds for these heads and IIRC some valvetrain components are different as well but don't quote me on that talk to Mike. I believe these were engineered for BBC rockers. I think you have to budget 6K just for the topend to go to one of these. I want one bad, but just can't do it. I've got about 8k in my whole engine starting from scratch with plenty of aftermarket parts. I think these should be part of any max effort build; your engine is only as fast as your cylinder head. They are awesome, but the cover charge is steep to get into the party.
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#59070 - 07/13/10 01:00 PM Re: 12 port Aluminum heads available. 194-292 Chevy [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
Harry 6674 II 5760 Offline
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How do the 12 port compare power wise to a hybrid head?

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#59071 - 07/13/10 01:04 PM Re: 12 port Aluminum heads available. 194-292 Chev [Re: 56er]
panic Offline
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This is one reason why I stopped matching bank statements as a way of racing long ago: there is always someone else with the same (or better) parts and more money, and you'll always be following him. When I was young (Kennedy was President), every day another 10,000 kids said "I'll build a small block Chevy" - and I wasn't one of them. How could I possibly do something that hasn't already been done?
As Garlits said many decades ago, "every real racer is looking for an engineering advantage to give him a lead - so he can develop the next one before they do". This is completely different from simply buying the best product.
My interest vectored off into "orphans", beginning with the Harley flathead motors around 1975, then the Chrysler polyspheric V8, simply because those need not (and cannot) be built with credit cards - because there is nothing available.
My current focus on the Gen-2 stovebolt is based on 2 factors:
1. not enough has been done to exhaust the potential
2. there is no serious commercial speed equipment

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#59073 - 07/13/10 01:19 PM Re: 12 port Aluminum heads available. 194-292 Chev [Re: panic]
panic Offline
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Brief comment:
The Sissell is the only thing available TIKO currently.
The chamber design is a well-developed modified closed wedge, with modern plug placement near the exhaust, and what appears to be good reliefs.
However: it's still a reverse-flow (not a fatal flaw, but certainly not an advantage), and has parallel valves.
If I were going to fabricate a hybrid head, my choice would be a multi-angle chamber design such as the Cleveland (only .020" smaller pitch than the 292), and begin with used alcohol sprint parts to get an aluminum casting for $500. It's as close as you can get to a full cross flow (with opposing valves, like a hemi) and still have a compact chamber.
If that's not enough work, get a late Nissan VQ40 V6 motor (.009" larger pitch) and have DOHC and 4 valves, and fabricate a cam drive.

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#59075 - 07/13/10 04:29 PM Re: 12 port Aluminum heads available. 194-292 Chev [Re: panic]
efi-diy Offline
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 Originally Posted By: panic
Brief comment:

If that's not enough work, get a late Nissan VQ40 V6 motor (.009" larger pitch) and have DOHC and 4 valves, and fabricate a cam drive.


Why do all this work? For 1/4 of the price you can get a ready to run 4200.

After running a well built 292 and the 4200 for me its a no brainer.

No dought that 12 port head makes the 250/292 work after seeing the mighty6 truck in Texas its a work of art. Just pricey. All said and done I bet the 12 port head with headers and intake etc will be >$4000.

Low mileage 4200 about $1000, turbo $700, turbo manifold $900, bigger injectors $300. <<< == 450 to 500 HP for $2900.
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#59076 - 07/13/10 04:35 PM Re: 12 port Aluminum heads available. 194-292 Chev [Re: efi-diy]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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efi-diy,

Just how much have you put into your new 4200?
Connecting rods,
Turbo,turbo manifolds,pistons,cams,sleeves,installing sleeves,porting,valve job, machining etc.
Hard numbers please.
I am sure it was a lot of $$$

MBHD
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#59080 - 07/13/10 07:34 PM Re: 12 port Aluminum heads available. 194-292 Chev [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
panic Offline
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Of course, I meant if retaining the original engine was priority #1, and as an interesting engineering project.

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#59081 - 07/13/10 07:55 PM Re: 12 port Aluminum heads available. 194-292 Chev [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
efi-diy Offline
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OK fair is fair.

Originally I was running a stock 4200 with the turbo, and the cost of this set up was listed above. Made 350 RWHP @ 8 psi.

My built engine yes its more but I expect more out of it:

head work (valves, springs, retainers,seats)& labor $1400
pistons $720 including pins and rings
rods $1200
sleeves $650
cams $950 for both.
block work was $900 but our labor rates here are high ($45/hour for machinist)

This netted 487 RWHP at 10 PSI, there is a lot left in it.

Guess what I'm trying to get at is for a stock 4200 with a turbo you can easily get 400 RWHP. What holds a stock engine back is the exhaust ports - no cost fix if you have a die grinder and cutters.



Edited by efi-diy (07/13/10 07:58 PM)
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#59082 - 07/13/10 08:02 PM Re: 12 port Aluminum heads available. 194-292 Chev [Re: efi-diy]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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 Originally Posted By: efi-diy
 Originally Posted By: panic
Brief comment:




After running a well built 292 and the 4200 for me its a no brainer.

No dought that 12 port head makes the 250/292 work after seeing the mighty6 truck in Texas its a work of art. Just pricey. All said and done I bet the 12 port head with headers and intake etc will be >$4000.

Low mileage 4200 about $1000, turbo $700, turbo manifold $900, bigger injectors $300. <<< == 450 to 500 HP for $2900.


Guys in Brazil have the fastest siamesed port 250's 7.8 seconds in the 1/4 being the record for a car,no sleeves,no main cap girdles,cast crank & so-on.

When going with forced induction,it is not necessary to have the best flowing head to go fast,Harry has gone fast w/his siamesed port 292.

It has to do w/a lot of things to make a combo work.

There is a guy in Brazil using an SPA turbo exhaust manifold,siamesed port head,250 ci making 860+ HP or so.

The bottom ends can take some abuse & not have to spend a lot of money to stay together it seems.

So in short,sure the siamesed port head has it's short commings,but when you can force pressurized air into it,the siamesed head does not look so bad IMO.

Turbo your inline guys,, & you will never go back to normally aspirated.

I wanted the edge of having a cylinder head that has devided ports & flows excellent.So,,theres a chance to get one now,I would not hesitate to get another one if I needed one.

Times are tough now w/this bad ecomomy,& hopefully will get better sooner than later,but when a rare/limited production part comes along & it's something you know will fit your needs ,,I say go for it,you only live once.

When I put items/parts on my cars I do not look as they are an investment,or how they will get me my money back for better mileage etc, I look for performance increase & if the part/s will fit that need ,,,so be it & buy it.


MBHD

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#59083 - 07/13/10 08:11 PM Re: 12 port Aluminum heads available. 194-292 Chev [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
efi-diy Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank
 Originally Posted By: efi-diy
[quote=panic]Brief comment:




When I put items/parts on my cars I do not look as they are an investment,or how they will get me my money back for better mileage etc, I look for performance increase & if the part/s will fit that need ,,,so be it & buy it.


MBHD



When I put items/parts on my cars I do not look as they are an investment,or how they will get me my money back for better mileage etc, I look for performance increase & if the part/s will fit that need ,,,so be it & buy it.

Yep I agree with this 100%, I hate breaking parts. I learned a long time ago to do it right the first time if you expect it to last. So I build my junk as strong as I can.

What would be fun for an experiment is to take a low cost 4200 and take the low buck approach - apart from porting the exhaust port - leave it alone. Then add boost until it pops... early 4200 can be had for <$500.
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#59085 - 07/13/10 08:37 PM Re: 12 port Aluminum heads available. 194-292 Chev [Re: efi-diy]
56er Offline
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"Yep I agree with this 100%, I hate breaking parts. I learned a long time ago to do it right the first time if you expect it to last. So I build my junk as strong as I can."


In the Navy we say: "You always have the time and money to do it right the second time."
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#59089 - 07/14/10 05:15 AM Re: 12 port Aluminum heads available. 194-292 Chev [Re: 56er]
panic Offline
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The way I heard it was "there's never enough time to do it right, but there's always enough time to do it twice".

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