logo
12 Port News - Features
12 Port History
Casting Numbers
Online Store
Tech Tips
Become a Member
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,839
Likes: 1
M
1000 Post Club
***
Offline
1000 Post Club
***
M
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,839
Likes: 1
Even though you installed a ridged flange it will eventually leak.
There are only 2 bolt holes?

W/a V-band clamp, there is constant pressure applied evenly all the way around the flange.

I work on multi million dollar airplanes & that is the style flanges they all use & they do not leak.
The planes I work on have been using them since the 1960's & are used still today.

Just dont want you go go through leaks, especially if you can do it now before it gets installed.

There are so many CO's making these, there are low quailty ones,so watch out for thin sheet metal ones.

They are pretty affordable & I do not see why anyone would want to use an inferior design.

Just my two cents thrown.

MBHD


12 port SDS EFI
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
S
Contributor
*****
OP Offline
Contributor
*****
S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
Hank, I believe you.

I may rework these collectors in the future. Originally I was planning to go from 2" at the collector inlet tapered out to 2.5 inch at the collector flange. I decided to make it 2.25 straight for now to reduce the effort. I can revise the flange connection at that time.

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
S
Contributor
*****
OP Offline
Contributor
*****
S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,554
Likes: 34
1000 Post Club
****
Offline
1000 Post Club
****
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,554
Likes: 34
Bet your stomach is getting alittle tighter. That looks like a lot of exercise!


Inliner Member 1716
65 Chevelle Wagon and 41 Hudson Pickup
Information and parts www.12bolt.com

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
S
Contributor
*****
OP Offline
Contributor
*****
S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
I'm not done yet. Still have to build connector pipes to the exhaust system.

Believe me, I'm in no hurry to build more headers. It's a buttload of work. My family has been patient with the noise.

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
S
Contributor
*****
OP Offline
Contributor
*****
S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
Finished welding headers and built connector pipes. Hank, I think you are right about the 2 bolt flanges. Engine torquing around will pull on the flanges and cause leaks in short order, gasket or not. I bought some pickling gel to clean the heat stains, also need to add an O2 sensor port. Both can wait for now.

http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae131/strokersix/DSCN3968.jpg
http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae131/strokersix/DSCN3970.jpg

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,839
Likes: 1
M
1000 Post Club
***
Offline
1000 Post Club
***
M
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,839
Likes: 1
Great job!
What are the details on the rest of your exhaust system? Size, muffler/s crossover etc.

MBHD


12 port SDS EFI
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
S
Contributor
*****
OP Offline
Contributor
*****
S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
Connector pipes are 2.25". Pipes back to the transverse mounted muffler are 2.5" with a 2" crossover. Muffler is a Flowmaster, I think it's really just two mufflers in one case but not sure about that. 2.5" out of muffler then 2.25" resonators out back exiting under the outer corners of the bumper. Resonators are altered JCWhitney glasspacks opened up for full 2.125" inside diameter thru and shorted to about 10" long to fit the available space.

The big block configuration was 2.5" all the way from 3" header collectors to the front of the resonators. I never took it to the track but the intent was to remove the resonators at the track.

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
S
Contributor
*****
OP Offline
Contributor
*****
S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,839
Likes: 1
M
1000 Post Club
***
Offline
1000 Post Club
***
M
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,839
Likes: 1
Cool, what happened to the gas tank, time for a new one?


MBHD


12 port SDS EFI
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,554
Likes: 34
1000 Post Club
****
Offline
1000 Post Club
****
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,554
Likes: 34
Can't wait to hear the buzzin! Keep going.


Inliner Member 1716
65 Chevelle Wagon and 41 Hudson Pickup
Information and parts www.12bolt.com

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
S
Contributor
*****
OP Offline
Contributor
*****
S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
I removed the fuel tank, drained it, and let it ride around in the back of my truck for a week to ventilate. Also blew the fuel out of the lines. I try to minimize flammables in the house, especially when I'm welding under the car.

Thanks for the encouragement guys!

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 378
7
Contributor
****
Offline
Contributor
****
7
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 378

Are you contemplating welding the tank for some reason? If so, we need to talk before you die. I know how to do it safe... most "safe" ways are not. People have died trying to weld empty, "ventilated" gas tanks.

Jan

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
S
Contributor
*****
OP Offline
Contributor
*****
S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
I tack welded the exhaust connector pipes. Fuel tank isn't even in the same room.

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
S
Contributor
*****
OP Offline
Contributor
*****
S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
RTV sculpture on the lower part of the intake port and intake installed:
http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae131/strokersix/DSCN3983.jpg
http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae131/strokersix/DSCN3984.jpg
Altered fuel pump casting to accomodate reduced cam lobe. Probably not required but I did it anyway:
http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae131/strokersix/DSCN3985.jpg
And complete install. A bit cosmetically challenged due to 21may deadline. I drove it around the block:
http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae131/strokersix/DSCN3986.jpg
http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae131/strokersix/DSCN3987.jpg

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 378
7
Contributor
****
Offline
Contributor
****
7
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 378
That's a lot of RED \:D

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,839
Likes: 1
M
1000 Post Club
***
Offline
1000 Post Club
***
M
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,839
Likes: 1
Nice!
It looks like that intake manifold makes a carb sit higher than a standard intake or Cliiford or Offy?

Are you using the bigger dual-jet carb?

MBHD


12 port SDS EFI
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
S
Contributor
*****
OP Offline
Contributor
*****
S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
Manifold height is very similar if not identical to stock one barrel intake. I do plan to try a spacer under the carb at some point. Carb is the larger two barrel. It's from a '69 full size big block 265 horse 396 application. Should be similar to what you would find on 327, 350, 400 small block '69-'72 or so.

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,839
Likes: 1
M
1000 Post Club
***
Offline
1000 Post Club
***
M
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,839
Likes: 1
OK, the pics just looks like the runners 1,2 & 5,6 are sloping down, thinking the center is higher, thats all.

Has it fired up yet?

MBHD


12 port SDS EFI
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
S
Contributor
*****
OP Offline
Contributor
*****
S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
 Originally Posted By: strokersix
I drove it around the block

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
S
Contributor
*****
OP Offline
Contributor
*****
S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
Went for a drive yesterday and drove it hard. It runs strong. I'm glad I have the big 168 flywheel and clutch. I can lay two decent black stripes on the pavement and a healthy chirp going into second and even into third gear too! I wound it up pretty tight and nothing broke yet. Time for an oil change and see what's in the pan.

My younger son was with me and he thought it was cool but a little scary. That's encouraging in today's electronic iphone video game etc. world.

Last edited by strokersix; 05/18/11 09:45 AM.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,839
Likes: 1
M
1000 Post Club
***
Offline
1000 Post Club
***
M
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,839
Likes: 1
Cool!,
videos of this type of thing goes a long ways so everyone can enjoy, hint, hint. ;\)
I forgot the specs on your camshaft
What did you end up getting?

I doubt you have anything bad in the pan.


MBHD


12 port SDS EFI
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,015
Likes: 47
1000 Post Club
****
Offline
1000 Post Club
****
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,015
Likes: 47
 Originally Posted By: strokersix

My younger son was with me and he thought it was cool but a little scary. That's encouraging in today's electronic iphone video game etc. world.


You are lucky I think having a kid in a hot rod is a form of child abuse in California. \:D


"I wonder if God created man because he was disappointed in the monkey?" Mark Twain
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,554
Likes: 34
1000 Post Club
****
Offline
1000 Post Club
****
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,554
Likes: 34
Got a ride in this cool rig today! Here is a short vid of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7VIZpI4lfQ

Best part is, he let me drive it! And told me to let it RIP. The throttle response is instant, no shortage of torque.

Stroker, Thanks for the ride. Tom


Inliner Member 1716
65 Chevelle Wagon and 41 Hudson Pickup
Information and parts www.12bolt.com

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,839
Likes: 1
M
1000 Post Club
***
Offline
1000 Post Club
***
M
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,839
Likes: 1
Sweet sounds great!
Just curious,, does it feel faster than your Elky?


MBHD


12 port SDS EFI
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
S
Contributor
*****
OP Offline
Contributor
*****
S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
I've ridden in and driven Tom's car. I think Tom's car pulls harder with the turbo. I bet I would beat him off the line and give a decent run at 1/8 mile but I'm sure the turbo would win at 1/4 mile.

He told me chassis dyno showed 250 horse at the Elco wheels. My goal was 250 horse at the crank. I'm probably short of that number but not by a lot. A little more cam (comp 252 hydraulic), a little more carb (Rochester 2 barrel), and a little more gear (3.08 posi) would improve 1/4 mile time. It runs so well as it is today I'm in no hurry to change it. I have some brake and suspension work that is more urgent. Cut a coil off the big block springs first!

Nothing broken yet. Oil had typical metallic look of first oil change, nothing alarming. I've spun it up to 5500 or so (still pulling at 5500) repeatedly while driving it hard. Kind of hard to tell exactly since the factory Nova tach is tiny and calibrated for v8. I will pull the head for a look and better head gasket. It is a cheapo rebuilder gasket now. I'll swap to a nicer print-o-seal gasket. Pistons rattle a bit when cold but nice and quiet when warm. Runs well on 87 octane, no ethanol.

Last edited by strokersix; 05/22/11 09:02 AM.
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,583
Likes: 19
1000 Post Club
**
Offline
1000 Post Club
**
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 4,583
Likes: 19
Sounds Real good strokersix.


Larry/Twisted6
[oooooo] smile
Adding CFM adds boost smile
shocked God doesn't like ugly.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
S
Contributor
*****
OP Offline
Contributor
*****
S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
Here are some more photos. Installed O2 sensor bungs in the headers. I bucked up for a wideband sensor too. I still plan to use pickling paste to clean the heat stains, then the engine heat will turn the welds and tubing all the same color. I think that's what will happen anyway, I've never used it before.



Touched up the exhaust valve job. I use the shop made stone holder on the angle grider to rough then the proper Sioux stone holder and driver to finish. Left intakes alone because they look good.







Checking spring force with shop made checker. Isky 205-D are nice parts. Consistent force and shot peened and ground dampers.



Measured all the spring heights and selected shims.




Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,839
Likes: 1
M
1000 Post Club
***
Offline
1000 Post Club
***
M
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,839
Likes: 1
Now I am convinced, you have worked on engines before. LOL.

Goodwork!

Have you ever checked your cranking compression?

MBHD


12 port SDS EFI
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
S
Contributor
*****
OP Offline
Contributor
*****
S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
Thanks. I've worked on engines for most of my 46 years.

No, I have not checked cranking compression. All cylinders are the same based on the sound when cranking but I don't know the number.

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,554
Likes: 34
1000 Post Club
****
Offline
1000 Post Club
****
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,554
Likes: 34
Can you post pics of the flame pattern on top of the pistons? That tight quench has to show up in the pattern.


Inliner Member 1716
65 Chevelle Wagon and 41 Hudson Pickup
Information and parts www.12bolt.com

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
S
Contributor
*****
OP Offline
Contributor
*****
S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
About 200 miles, much of it driven hard and fast. Used about a pint of oil. Piston tops are a bit oily, especially 5 and 6. I think I'll try running 4 or 4.5 quarts of oil instead of 5+. There is no extra effort at oil control, just stock 250 pan and pickup. No evidence of piston contact with the head.





Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,554
Likes: 34
1000 Post Club
****
Offline
1000 Post Club
****
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,554
Likes: 34
What type of valve seal were you running?

It's interesting how parts of the piston stay clean (like new) in the tight quench area. Wished I would have taken pics of the dyno 250 piston tops last time it was apart. They had a pretty swirl going on.


Inliner Member 1716
65 Chevelle Wagon and 41 Hudson Pickup
Information and parts www.12bolt.com

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
S
Contributor
*****
OP Offline
Contributor
*****
S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
I was running white teflon seals that had been used a couple times. They are in the trash now, replaced with the seals I got from you.

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 534
D
Major Contributor
Offline
Major Contributor
D
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 534
Strokersix,
Nice build, I am following it closely.
With all the 16 pages of detail I just had to run this one thru the DeuceCoupe Gonkulator computer.
Here is what it computed to, with the info you gave and assuming that 396-2v carb is the 1.25" venturi style (381cfm at 3.0" rating)
I also computed a 9.46cr, not sure how you got 8.8cr unless I missed something?
Anyway here goes:
Torq 324 at 3300
Powr 257 at 4500

And with a good bite:
2.18 60ft
9.25 at 75.8 1/8mi
14.52 at 92.2 1/4mi

Using 1-5/8 headers instead of 1-1/2 only added 3 hp, and was better by about .02 sec and .2mph. Not worth it. \:\(

Adding a 600cfm Holley was good for 28hp, about 25sec and over 2mph in the 1/4 mile. But then you'd lose the fun of showing people your Nova taillites with not only a six, but a 2-barrel six. \:o

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
S
Contributor
*****
OP Offline
Contributor
*****
S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
Thanks! Hey, you can run the numbers anytime you want if they come up that nice. My goal was 250hp. I took this car down the dragstrip with a stock 350/th350 and ran 15.4/94mph about 15 years ago. That's the one and only time I've driven on the strip.

Yes, 1.25 venturis. I'm not sure where I got the 8.8cr. It's more like 9.5.

I'm adding a 1/2 inch spacer under the carb because it seems like the throttle plates almost touch the intake floor. I'm exxagerating but I do think it will help flow to raise the carb a bit. The spacer will also hold the throttle cable and return springs so it's a triple purpose part.

Last edited by strokersix; 07/11/11 05:34 PM.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
S
Contributor
*****
OP Offline
Contributor
*****
S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
DeuceCoupe: Gonkulator numbers are gross at the crank (like '60s musclecar), correct?

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 534
D
Major Contributor
Offline
Major Contributor
D
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 534
 Originally Posted By: strokersix
DeuceCoupe: Gonkulator numbers are gross at the crank (like '60s musclecar), correct?


Yes they are SAE Gross ie 60F 29.92 dry air, open exhaust, water pump belt only, no air cleaner.
Also said 218 net hp (today's rating) and 191rwhp.

Gonkulator is still just a computer of course, but running it against Tom Lowe's dyno tests helped, it is fairly accurate on the Chev 6. I am always looking for dyno or timeslip data to compare to though!

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
S
Contributor
*****
OP Offline
Contributor
*****
S
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 493
One header with welding and exhaust heat stains and one cleaned with pickling paste:



Polished with some scotchbrite and soapy water for more even texture. Should turn consistent dark straw color instead of welding heat stains.



Installed:



1/2 inch carb riser plate. I'm hoping this will improve flow by making an easier turn below the carb plus some plenum volume. Still working on a throttle cable bracket that doesn't require baler wire:


Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,839
Likes: 1
M
1000 Post Club
***
Offline
1000 Post Club
***
M
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,839
Likes: 1
Looks good.

Isn't it going to go back to the same color as before?

I see it looks like you have a nice radius feeding #'s 3&4 cyl, did you do the same to feed 1,2,5,& 6 ? Hard to tell from the pics.
I had put a large radius on my Cliiford intake & went too far , had to weld up both areas fwd & aft where carb mounts.

It(the radius) helps the air/fuel turn into the fwd & aft runners better & yes & carb spacer does help it does also change the fuel needs a bit also,depending on how thick a spacer you install.


MBHD


12 port SDS EFI
Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  stock49, Twisted6, will6er 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 193 guests, and 54 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Skulptorchaz, Ryan Clark, chevy454, TCH54, beansprout01
6,778 Registered Users
Sponsored Advertisement
Sponsored Advertisement
This Space is Available
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5