#67495 - 11/29/11 01:18 PM
Re: snowman4839 turbo build
[Re: Harry 6674 II 5760]
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turbo nova
Active BB Member
Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 48
Loc: louisiana
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My system is along the lines of your thinking.
I have not istalled it yet but here it is.
I have one custom fuel cell for all of my fuel (most likely racing fuel)
i then come off of the cell with two -10AN fuel lines both feed through inline Peterson fuel filters. one line goes to a Aeromotive 11203 SS fuel pump for daily driving under normal pressure. The other -10an line goes to a Aeromotive 11202 A2000 pump for strip use. Both of the lines have a one way check valve and feed into a y fitting and then a -10 AN on to the regulator.
From the regulator on i have -8AN lines to the carb with a return line back to the fuel cell.
I would show pictures but i have not installed it yet, i have all the parts though.
I understand what your trying to accomplish, you may want some check valves here or there if you want to keep the mechanical pump.
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#67514 - 11/30/11 06:26 PM
Re: snowman4839 turbo build
[Re: snowman4839]
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Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank
Active BB Member
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 4550
Loc: Ca
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This is what you do, as I always told you this is what you should do.
Get methanol injection, http://mysite.verizon.net/res11pgkr/vehicles/customkit.html
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alkycontrol-Meth...=item335618a9f1
you can be real thrifty & run 87 octane all the time, no need for two tanks,2 pumps, check valves extra lines & so on & so on.
Quote from Julio
Can I run the boost I currently run with race gas using alcohol injection?
Yes, though the timing used may be less. Some vehicles like my own, run more boost on AI than can on race gas, though I run more timing on race gas than AI. My own example, I can run 24 PSI on race gas, but any higher, will produce detonation(KR) due to incoming air temps being so high. Due to an inefficient intercooler. On alcohol I’ve blown past 30 PSI boost and gone faster than I ever have using race gas. Based on my own combination of components used.
Get that pump you wanted to get , @ least step up to a 3/8 fuel line from inside the tank up to the front.
You still need to run a return line into the fuel tank.
You do not need a new fuel tank to install a 3/8 or bigger line inside.
Look here to get some ideas:
http://www.novas.net/forums/showthread.php?t=327&highlight=sending+unit
I am pretty sure you can buy a factory style in tank pick-up that is 3/8" size & even bigger.
Look for Chevelle in tank pick ups assy's.
Example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-1969-1970-C...=item4cf51c729d
IIRC, Companys make factory style fuel pick up assys w/a 1/2" hose if you want one. Need to research online.
I am not sure if that regulator will only give you 5 or so psi, I did not read the specs., You definately need a fuel pressure reg that will dial down the fuel pressure to 5 or so psi, that is boost referenced.
Snowman,,Read up on this:
http://mysite.verizon.net/res11pgkr/faq/acfaqs.html
MBHD
_________________________
12 port SDS EFI 
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#67525 - 11/30/11 09:16 PM
Re: snowman4839 turbo build
[Re: Boucher]
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Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank
Active BB Member
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 4550
Loc: Ca
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Snowman,
you do not need to have a goal of making a lot of power by using a methanol injection system.
I am suggesting for you to run cheap gas all the time (like you mostly want to in order to save some $$$$), 87 octane & you can go with higher boost w/87 octane & using a methanol injection system.
Not exactly sure what octane you would get by using 87 octane & a meth kit installed, but it will be more octane than running straight 91 octane for sure.
After you install a intercooler system & meth injection system, I can see you running 15 psi of boost pressure pretty easy, & you said your car was crazy fast when boosting to 15 psi, correct?
I think you should keep your fuel system as simple as possible.
It is a neat idea of what you are thinking about doing & people have done dual fuel systems w/success.
Believe me when I say you will be more than happy the way your car will run on 87 octane , intercooler installed & a meth kit.
Have I steered you wrong so-far?
Also, I high light my words to you on my posts because I think you do not go to the links I post or sometimes actually read my posts. You dont have to, just thought you want some input.
I just mean for you to pay attention if you like. 
If I was shouting, they would all be caps.
MBHD
_________________________
12 port SDS EFI
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#67526 - 11/30/11 10:13 PM
Re: snowman4839 turbo build
[Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
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snowman4839
Active BB Member
Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 440
Loc: Memphis, TN
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Well I'm probably going to go with my dual fuel system route for now because even it doesn't work at all, I'll have everything I need to get the one-tank system to work. I'd just have extra fuel cell, one-way valve, and some fittings. Then we all get to be happy, and if my idea doesn't work, you can rub it in my face haha (but I can still get it working right with the one-tank system).
After I get the fuel system worked out, then it'll be onto an intercooler, turbo cam, and meth injection (probably in that order).
I always pay attention but sometimes I'm just stubborn
Come to think of it, can I mix meth with the 93 in the fuel cell? Would that have any positive effect or would that eat my fuel line and seals?
_________________________
1969 Buick Special Deluxe. Turbo Chevy 250 @ 10psi on a stock long block. It's kinda fast.
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#67645 - 12/11/11 09:50 PM
Re: snowman4839 turbo build
[Re: snowman4839]
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Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank
Active BB Member
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 4550
Loc: Ca
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Try a larger squirter, 31's or larger to help w/the stumble.
You still might have a vacuum leak somewhere.Have the engine idle & spray starting fluid at the carb base gasket & intake to cyl head gasket & all around the carb for other possible leaks,( it's very flamable so be very careful & done you it on a really hot exhast manifold, try the starting fluid spray when the engine is cold, just to be a bit safer.
With the engine idleing ,if the engine RPM goes higher when you spray starter fluid @ the areas mentioned, that means there is a vacuum leak where you are spraying the starter fluid.
What did you end up doing s far as your fuel system?
Going w/a fuel cell & stock gas tank?
Increasing the feed line from the gast tank to the front?
IMO, it is really a big waste of time to run cheap 87 octane fuel in your stock tank & run a completely different fuel cell & lines just to run 91 octane.
You will get better results & higher octane & be able to run more boost when running the 87 octane & injecting methanol.(I think I already stated something simular before?)
If you wanted to raise your octane for the 87 octane in your fuel tank, put in some Xylene, or of course Torco http://torcoracefuel.net/pro-accelerator.html octane booster.
If you have a LOWES or Home Depot near you, they should sell Xylene so you can pick it up locally.
FORMULA 2
Xylene
R+M/2...117
Cost...$2.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...94.5 Octane
20%...97.0 Octane
30%...99.5 Octane
Notes: Similar to Toulene. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, I.e. from 92 to 92.3. Usually mixed with Toulene and advertised as *race formula*.
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/misc/octanebooster.html
MBHD
_________________________
12 port SDS EFI
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#67657 - 12/12/11 04:37 PM
Re: snowman4839 turbo build
[Re: Harry 6674 II 5760]
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tlowe #1716
12 PORT ADVERTISER
Active BB Member
Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 2333
Loc: Dysart, Iowa
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23 inch's of vacuum is great.
My engine likes 12.75- 13 AFR at idle. and with 24 degrees timing at idle. These engines have poor chamber design.
I also like to keep things simple for the fuel system.
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#67662 - 12/12/11 08:55 PM
Re: snowman4839 turbo build
[Re: snowman4839]
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Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank
Active BB Member
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 4550
Loc: Ca
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This even has a BOV for $205,hard to beat this price I would think. Christmas is coming soon ;-)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CXRacing-UNIVERS...=item43a9e297bb
I like these intercoolers better, just because of the 3" core.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/31X12X3-Universa...=item439a1dfbc6
http://www.ebay.com/itm/31-x11-5-x3-FMIC...=item3a52cca082
It is not a bar & plate design, but it's lighter & I.I.R.C., the tube & fin design are more efficient.
Just a reminder, this is not high quality kit, the hoses are not a 4 ply (should not be a problem though)the clamps are a bit cheesy,(but they work)bar & plate design are more durable,(but heavier) the tubes are desent & have rolled beads on the ends( so the hoses dont blow off)
The BOV is cheap ,but they seem to work OK, I have something simular on my Syclone.
When your accelerating the A/F ratio should be a lot richer than 15:1, probably closer to 11:0 -12:1 A/F ratio as a rough estimate when you enitially stab the throttle
"quote: I'm also pulling more vacuum now than I was before the rebuild"
What did you actually rebuild, was it when when you pulled the engine?
Still waiting on pics of the engine installed w/all the pipeing/plumbing ,BOV,carb bonnet,, etc.
Thanks
Posting pics helps others out here that are considering turboing there rides.
MBHD
_________________________
12 port SDS EFI
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#67672 - 12/13/11 06:05 PM
Re: snowman4839 turbo build
[Re: snowman4839]
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Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank
Active BB Member
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 4550
Loc: Ca
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snowman4839,
saw the videos, nice.
It appears there is a huge lean stumble in your video, need to richen up the accelerator circuit.
I was wondering if you ever hooked up your boost reference line from the mechanical pump to the intake manifold?
If so,, do it help any?
When you installed the 1025 head gasket, did you mill the head any? if not, you lost a bit of compression from your already low compression.
On your 4 speed trans, what is the first gear ratio?
I am wondering if you will be able to use your column shift w/the 4 spd?
Even if you can get it to work,,, I am really thinking it will not shift as good as a floor mounted shifter, less flex in the linkage rods as compared to the column shift linkage.
Basically saying, it will slow down your shifting ability running a columm shifter.
I noticed the up pipe to the turbo, it seems to have steps/mismatch from the 2.5" pipe to the T4 flange.
From my findings, having such a severe mismatch/steps of the pipe to T4 flange, this will cause the turbo to spool slower & actually cause it to make less boost pressure down low, when the turbo is finally spooled up, the turbo will make the boost pressure, but it will be slower to spool up quickly & get into boost sooner.
Basically saying, if there is anything you can do to smooth out the transition of the 2.5" pipe to the T4 flange it will help a bunch.
Hope the squirter helps out, I would think it will.
MBHD
_________________________
12 port SDS EFI
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#67673 - 12/13/11 06:27 PM
Re: snowman4839 turbo build
[Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
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snowman4839
Active BB Member
Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 440
Loc: Memphis, TN
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snowman4839,
saw the videos, nice.
It appears there is a huge lean stumble in your video, need to richen up the accelerator circuit.
By richen the circuit, I'm assuming you mean get a bigger squirter?
I was wondering if you ever hooked up your boost reference line from the mechanical pump to the intake manifold?
If so,, do it help any?
Well the deal is I did at first when I was running 15psi and it still ran out of gas pretty quickly. I don't have it hooked up now because the jbweld sealing the fitting to the housing of the pump kept cracking and it wouldn't hold pressure. So I just said forget it and that's why I'm working on the electric pump setup now.
When you installed the 1025 head gasket, did you mill the head any? if not, you lost a bit of compression from your already low compression.
No I didn't, but it seems to run fine. I mean how much could I have really lost? like a tenth of a point?
On your 4 speed trans, what is the first gear ratio?
It's a 3.11 first gear whereas the three speed i had was a 2.84 first gear
I am wondering if you will be able to use your column shift w/the 4 spd?
Even if you can get it to work,,, I am really thinking it will not shift as good as a floor mounted shifter, less flex in the linkage rods as compared to the column shift linkage.
I've driven it some and it shifts very nicely and I can shift pretty damn fast. My 1st to 2nd is extremely quick and my 2nd to 3rd is a little slower since I have to switch the forks but I've gotten good at that since it used to be my first to 2nd with the 3 speed
Basically saying, it will slow down your shifting ability running a columm shifter.
I noticed the up pipe to the turbo, it seems to have steps/mismatch from the 2.5" pipe to the T4 flange.
From my findings, having such a severe mismatch/steps of the pipe to T4 flange, this will cause the turbo to spool slower & actually cause it to make less boost pressure down low, when the turbo is finally spooled up, the turbo will make the boost pressure, but it will be slower to spool up quickly & get into boost sooner.
Basically saying, if there is anything you can do to smooth out the transition of the 2.5" pipe to the T4 flange it will help a bunch.
I know the pipe isn't ideal but it works and I did do a bit of work hammering the pipe into the shape of the flange. Eventually I'm going to get someone to make a single pipie (no weld line in between bends) and do good TIG welds around the flanges but for now that's what I got
Hope the squirter helps out, I would think it will.
I certainly hope so. I can't think of what else would fix it.
MBHD
I also ended up taking my carb off for a minute today and blowing compressed air into all of the holes and especially the transition slots. When I ran it after that, it seemed to help a little bit but I still have a bad lean stumble.
What are you guys running on your holleys? Tom - what'd setup did you have on that holley 500 you did the turbo dyno on. Boucher - what jets/squirter/PV/etc. are you running?
_________________________
1969 Buick Special Deluxe. Turbo Chevy 250 @ 10psi on a stock long block. It's kinda fast.
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#67681 - 12/13/11 10:59 PM
Re: snowman4839 turbo build
[Re: snowman4839]
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preacher-no choir
Active BB Member
Registered: 01/26/10
Posts: 393
Loc: left out
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cant watch, got dial-up, would have to shave twice waiting for it to download.
Look up somewhere how carbs work especially holleys, learn it yourself, its the best way, the physics is all the same, just the methods of control differs between the various carb makers.
You can see everybody has an opinion, just like o/ds and axle ratios-anyone with a keyboard can be/is a Goodwrench. Look at how Ford starters work after you twist the key compared to how GM does it. Bottom line they all spin the flywheel.
Saw just first 5 or 6 seconds, is it true it was idling at 1000 (+) rpm and at that point you are seeing the 23 inches of vacuum?
Your butterfly maybe positioned open enough to be idling on a good part of its transistion circuit (slot) thereby using up what is normally used for transistioning to the main metering circuit.
Ideally your idle would be maybe 600 rpm resulting with maybe only 19" vacuum (more normal reading), the throttle butterfly would be positioned just at or slighty below the transistion slot or passageway just waiting for the blade to open and allow manifold vacuum to be exposed to this slot so that this additional fuel passage way can spring into action providing, no, ALLOWING extra fuel to carry out its intended duty. If You choose to have this high of an idle and are using up the transition passage, then YES, you will need more acelleration pump shot to overcome (remember crutch) this man made stumble. (does it run on after you turn off the key?)
A stock cammed engine should not need a 1000 rpm idle if the carb is set correctly. Check out the Idle circuit section of a good carb book and look at where the butterfly is positioned-say maybe- the Doug Roe Rochester book. (dig-dig). These things were put in carb to improve drivability. Just wait till it gets really cold-what a bear!
You have a good text book problem, with many guesses offered as to why its there. This is an excellant challange to learn what is the prob. Once you get a good handle on carbs and really understand how they work, then fi/efi and how computers make them work will be a snap.
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