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#74566 - 04/02/13 07:32 PM Update
McGoo Offline
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Loc: Airdrie, Alberta
Here are a few pictures of the engine so far. Slow progress but at least it is moving along.
Engine progress pictures
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#74568 - 04/02/13 08:45 PM Re: Update [Re: McGoo]
tlowe #1716 Offline
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Are you multiport injecting it?


Nice progress!
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#74571 - 04/03/13 06:05 AM Re: Update [Re: tlowe #1716]
McGoo Offline
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Thanx Tom.

Yup, planning on using Accel DFI system.
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#76783 - 09/04/13 09:32 PM Re: Update [Re: McGoo]
McGoo Offline
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Added a few more pics to the link above.
Slow slow slow.......Kinda like ribs in the smoker only slower.

Paul
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#76785 - 09/04/13 09:55 PM Re: Update [Re: McGoo]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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Looking good!
Tell me about your water pump mod. Flowkooler

What turbo are you going to use?

Have you set the block & head in with the turbo connected?

My turbo was really close to the power steering box. I decided to use a rack & pinion to give it more room.

MBHD
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#76794 - 09/05/13 05:19 PM Re: Update [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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McGoo,

On your copper head gasket, seems most people I talk to about running copper heads gaskets is that have a tendency to leak water.

Did you get a hold of Mike Kirby for a Cometic H.G.?

MBHD
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#76798 - 09/05/13 10:19 PM Re: Update [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
McGoo Offline
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Loc: Airdrie, Alberta
Hank,

The water pump was suggested by my engine builder. He has used their product before with great results.
My Tuner guy is leaning towards a Precision turbo, but I am still looking around. Seems difficult to get a response from some suppliers, not just for turbos, but for just about everything.
Since I don't have the turbo yet I have not done a mock up. Intake and exhaust manifolds are out for ceramic coating right now.
If the steering box is in the way it will be history very quickly. I could stand to lose a few pounds on the front of the car anyway.
I have not been able to get back under the dash to finish rewiring the car, hopefully in the next couple of weeks. Then I can move forward with some of the test fitting using spare block and head.
I never got a reply from Mike Kirby re the Cometic gasket. I did contact Cometic and they mentioned that the only gasket made so far was for a larger bore and not available for sale. I did consider paying for design and build of a gasket, but not sure how long it would take to see a return on the investment so opted for copper gasket and o-rings.

Once the wiring is done and front end back on I want to work on intercooler, piping, and fuel system. Hopefully get that stuff sorted out brfore the snow flies, and that is not too far down the road.

Paul
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#76888 - 09/12/13 08:32 PM Re: Update [Re: McGoo]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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Here is how close my Hybrid T3/T4 Turbonetics turbo is to the steering box & upper control arm.





One with downpipe.



MBHD
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#76894 - 09/13/13 05:27 AM Re: Update [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
tlowe #1716 Offline
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That is close quarters. A T4 exh housing that was On Center would move the turbo up and give better clearance.
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#76895 - 09/13/13 07:33 AM Re: Update [Re: tlowe #1716]
preacher-no choir Offline
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I think I would have considered just "shimming" the driver's side motor mount, or a tapered turbo mount plate, no hill for a stepper, out of an aluminum plate for that small amount--unless you really wanted a "upgraded" steering system. just be careful not to roll it off into the pool!


Edited by preacher-no choir (09/13/13 08:05 AM)
Edit Reason: tapered plate

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#76899 - 09/13/13 05:15 PM Re: Update [Re: preacher-no choir]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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I have not considered using an on center housing because they are not as efficient.

I did not want to spend anymore money on this turbo, it was originally bought to use on my Syclone, but since I just upgraded the stock Mitsubishi turbo for the Syclone.
Stock Syclone turbo:


Upgraded Syclone turbo:


Both side by side:


I just thought, might as well use this dinky turbo for my beater Camaro engine & try to get the EFI install all sorted out.
So if the turbo install does not go as planned, that's OK because this engine is just waiting to get blown up w/25+ PSI boosted runs! \:D

It is really an old, old engine. Did I mention old? \:D

I did always want to use a rack & pinion steering system. I am all about losing as much weight as I can possibly afford.

MBHD
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#76913 - 09/14/13 08:48 PM Re: Update [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
McGoo Offline
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Hank,
Do you have similar pics of the install with the rack? I am pretty well sold on going with a rack to save weight and improve steering. Hoping that clearance is an added benifit.

Paul
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#76914 - 09/14/13 08:53 PM Re: Update [Re: McGoo]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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Paul,

I do not have any pics of the rack installed, but I can take some.
It is installed, just no pics, can take some tomorrow.

MBHD
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#76915 - 09/14/13 09:00 PM Re: Update [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
CNC-Dude #5585 Offline
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You probably should wrap your power steering hose, the heat from the turbo will melt it.
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#76922 - 09/15/13 08:37 AM Re: Update [Re: CNC-Dude #5585]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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 Originally Posted By: CNC-Dude #5585
You probably should wrap your power steering hose, the heat from the turbo will melt it.


I am no longer using the original power steering box.
I installed a rack & pinion set-up.
But if I were to still use the stock steering box, I would definitely use a turbo blanket & use lots of heat reflecting tape products.
http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=turbo+blankets+t3&qpvt=turbo+blankets+t3&FORM=HURE

http://www.designengineering.com/products.asp

MBHD
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#76925 - 09/15/13 12:56 PM Re: Update [Re: preacher-no choir]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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McGoo,
can you post a pic of your turbo exhaust manifold?

MBHD
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#77044 - 09/22/13 08:04 PM Re: Update [Re: McGoo]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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 Originally Posted By: McGoo
Hank,
Do you have similar pics of the install with the rack? I am pretty well sold on going with a rack to save weight and improve steering. Hoping that clearance is an added benifit.

Paul


Only found this. Need to take more.





McGoo,
can you post a pic of your turbo exhaust manifold?


MBHD
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#77065 - 09/24/13 08:00 PM Re: Update [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
McGoo Offline
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Loc: Airdrie, Alberta
Hank,

I'll toss a few pictures of the manifold and couple other parts that I just had ceramic coated on my photo album. I don't know how to post a picture on the forum, so the other way will have to do.

Paul
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#77143 - 09/27/13 09:56 PM Re: Update [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
McGoo Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank
McGoo,
can you post a pic of your turbo exhaust manifold?

MBHD


Pics are posted Hank updated progress pics
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#77166 - 09/28/13 12:48 PM Re: Update [Re: McGoo]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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Thanks.
PM sent.
MBHD
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#78553 - 01/04/14 01:06 PM Re: Update [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
McGoo Offline
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Loc: Airdrie, Alberta
Moving at the rate of molasses flowing at -40!

Just about done rewiring the car and have not yet touched the fuel system. Too cold in the garage this winter to accomplish much on the car, so I am getting a real furnace installed soon.

The engine is pretty well done except for the venting system. Going to be on a dyno for N/A break in and few baseline pulls as soon vent tubes welding into the valve cover.

Just waiting to hear back from a couple other turbo manufacturers. My tuner guy sourced one from Precision and they recommended a 71mm compressor 68mm exhaust H cover ported shroud ball bearing turbo is the one for my car. They arenít cheap however at $3263!! Seems expensive to me. Precission does not return my emails, so I will have to try to call during the day.

I have been in touch with Turbonetics and they are recommending a GT-K 650 which is a 66mm compressor w/65mm turbine. A lot cheaper at about $2K.
The Turbonetics rep assures me I can attain my 450-500HP goals with ease, and have a very streetable car at the same time.

I keep telling myself that it will be on the road this year.

P
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#78556 - 01/04/14 01:48 PM Re: Update [Re: McGoo]
efi-diy Offline
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I have a barely used Garrett GT40 for sale. Its sized well for a 250". Has 2500 miles on - not a thing wrong with it.

PM me if interested and its in NW Calgary.
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#78609 - 01/07/14 09:23 PM Re: Update [Re: efi-diy]
McGoo Offline
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Loc: Airdrie, Alberta
Thanks for the offer Marc, but I'm running with pretty well brand new everything right now so I'll stick with that plan for now.

Paul
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#78610 - 01/07/14 10:34 PM Re: Update [Re: McGoo]
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also have a brand new one....
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#82040 - 08/19/14 12:22 PM Re: Update [Re: McGoo]
McGoo Offline
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Thanks to Tom Lowe for helping out my engine guy on the phone this morning.

The engine is getting a few break in pulls N/A and the engine seemed to be falling flat on it's face at 5400 RPM.
Going to try a new set of valve springs to see if that helps.

Paul
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#82041 - 08/19/14 03:14 PM Re: Update [Re: McGoo]
CNC-Dude #5585 Offline
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If its built specifically as a turbo engine with low compression and a turbo specific cam, it may be normally doggish until you start blowing air through it. A lot of nitrous engines are that way, especially with real wide lobe center cams along with low compression. Keep us posted!
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#82044 - 08/19/14 04:52 PM Re: Update [Re: McGoo]
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brand new everything ?

Difference between a brand-new, box-never-opened turbo and a well-maintained 10,000 mile turbo: several thousand dollars.
Th used turbo will probably outlast the engine.
More expensive isn't better, it's just more expensive.

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#82047 - 08/19/14 07:12 PM Re: Update [Re: panic]
McGoo Offline
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Originally Posted By: panic
brand new everything ?

Difference between a brand-new, box-never-opened turbo and a well-maintained 10,000 mile turbo: several thousand dollars.
Th used turbo will probably outlast the engine.
More expensive isn't better, it's just more expensive.


In some cases yes, but in this case the difference was not several thousand.
Marc's turbo chargers are a great deal, I just chose not to go with them, even though he is just minutes from my front door.

I have seen used turbos for sale that have only been used for a few dyno runs and they would not last very long at all. Not suggesting that Marc's are in that league of course.

Paul
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#82049 - 08/19/14 07:25 PM Re: Update [Re: CNC-Dude #5585]
McGoo Offline
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Originally Posted By: CNC-Dude #5585
If its built specifically as a turbo engine with low compression and a turbo specific cam, it may be normally doggish until you start blowing air through it. A lot of nitrous engines are that way, especially with real wide lobe center cams along with low compression. Keep us posted!


Compression is 9.1:1, using Tom's medium lift cam, Pertronix ignitor and Holley 390 for the break in. A/F is a little fat, but not overly rich by any means.
What got Ryan's (the engine guy) attention was the fact that during some pulls the engine just laid down at 5,400 RPM. It should rev higher than that and show some sort of power.
Ryan is concerned that the valve springs and retainers are showing phyical signs of valve float.
We are turning our attention to the Harland Sharp Rockers after a valve spring swap this afternoon. No significant improvement with the new springs.
Most of this is way above my skill level, but the man at the dyno has a lot of experience with race engines so I do trust his judgement.

What started out as a quick break in, retorque, and base line pulls has turned into a bit of a project.

Paul
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#82065 - 08/20/14 08:17 PM Re: Update [Re: McGoo]
McGoo Offline
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Loc: Airdrie, Alberta
Managed to get up to 5800 RPM before it started falling off. We do have valve float with 125 lbs spring pressure at the seat.
Going to look into turfing the hydraulic cam in favour of a custom solid lifter.
Will have video and data available soon.

Thanks to Mike B for touching base with me today. All of the help and opinions are appreciated.

Paul
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V8 camaros are like navels,...everybody has one.
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#82067 - 08/20/14 08:34 PM Re: Update [Re: McGoo]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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What engine damper are you using? Stock?

If so, get rid of that piece of %#&*!

MBHD
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#82069 - 08/20/14 08:37 PM Re: Update [Re: McGoo]
efi-diy Offline
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Which dyno in Calgary are you using?
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#82070 - 08/20/14 09:02 PM Re: Update [Re: efi-diy]
McGoo Offline
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Originally Posted By: efi-diy
Which dyno in Calgary are you using?


Ryan Brown's in Strathmore. Great guy!
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#82071 - 08/20/14 09:06 PM Re: Update [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
McGoo Offline
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Loc: Airdrie, Alberta
Originally Posted By: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank
What engine damper are you using? Stock?

If so, get rid of that piece of %#&*!

MBHD


Hank,

I'm using Walt Pearce's Damper.

Paul
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#82076 - 08/21/14 09:38 AM Re: Update [Re: McGoo]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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If that is a stock sized damper, I would venture to say it would not be as good as a bigger unit.

I used to go through stock dampers left & right, the previous owner of my Camaro did as well.

They would just shake loose, cause the engine to vibrate.

I just got so tired of them coming loose & not being able to RPM, no matter what camshaft I installed (cams up to 244 degrees duration @ .050") Max RPM it seemed to get w/power was 5800-6000 (but laboring to get there) engine vibes!! eek
I just decided to try out a standard SBC 300HP 350 style damper.

Guess what happened? The engine totally smoothed out, the damper never shook off the crank & I was able to RPM the engine to 7500 + RPM.

So in short, my friend who owned my Camaro before me shook a few dampers off the engine.
I then shook a few dampers off the engine, about 4-5 myself.

Installed a standard SBC 8" damper 300 HP 350 style, bamm!!! no more vibes, & all the RPM I ever wanted out of my 250 6.

MBHD
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#82077 - 08/21/14 10:09 AM Re: Update [Re: Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank]
SCRAPIRON, #4711 Offline
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Hank, did you do the machine work on your damper or did you buy it ready to go ???
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#82078 - 08/21/14 10:13 AM Re: Update [Re: McGoo]
CNC-Dude #5585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: McGoo
Managed to get up to 5800 RPM before it started falling off. Paul


That cam is only rated up to 5000 RPM! So your turning it well past where it has quit making power. That's why it falling off.....
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#82086 - 08/21/14 12:15 PM Re: Update [Re: CNC-Dude #5585]
McGoo Offline
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Originally Posted By: CNC-Dude #5585
Originally Posted By: McGoo
Managed to get up to 5800 RPM before it started falling off. Paul


That cam is only rated up to 5000 RPM! So your turning it well past where it has quit making power. That's why it falling off.....


Well doesn't that just make a whole lot of sense!!
I'm sure we all read that somewhere.

My numbers were 260 lbs torque @ 4400 RPM, 242 HP @ 5600.

I'm thinking I just might look at getting a bit more aggressive with the cam , and move to solid lifter. Time for a bit more homework.

Hank, I don't think Walt's damper is an issue. He has had a lot of problems in the past with dampers coming apart so he made the effort to get this unit built.
Not sure if anyone else has run one yet. It sure is a nice piece.

Thanks for everyone's help. Once we get the baseline stuff done I will be installing the engine and turbo on the car then sending it back to the shop for the rest of the work.
Still on the fence for an EFI system.

Paul cool
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V8 camaros are like navels,...everybody has one.
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#82088 - 08/21/14 01:03 PM Re: Update [Re: SCRAPIRON, #4711]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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Originally Posted By: SCRAPIRON, #4711
Hank, did you do the machine work on your damper or did you buy it ready to go ???


It was just a standard SBC damper & I installed it.
I had to relocate the alternator & power steering pump.
Then I cut the nose off of the water pump pulley and welded on a flat steel plate & spaced that accordingly.

It was a lot of work, but worth the trouble in order to make my 6 cylinder rev high and be able to dampen out the vibes.

Any stock size damper is not going to work good on a 250 & that is the problem of not being able to rev it high.


Tlowes dyno testing shook loose a fluid damper, those are known to have these types of problems on other HP engines also.

Good luck with sticking to a stock damper, it will not work. Been there done that, too many times.

I had suggested in the past for somebody to get a 8" SBC damper & have a machine shop machine "V" belt grooves in one & a member did do that here on the BB, but we never heard back about if it worked good or bad.

If you do this type of mod, then you do not need to relocate your power steering pump, alternator, A/C pump etc, & I would think this would be a much better/easier damper to use & still be much better than a stock size damper, I think the stock damper is just too light for it to work properly @ higher RPMs.

Just my thoughts anyways.

Paul , just try & do some research on any HP higher reving 250 6 cylinder, I don't think you will ever find anyone's project ever use a stock sized damper, I doubt anyone will ever suggest you to use one either, unless you only want to turn less than 5000 RPM.

I am not knocking on Walts damper, I am sure it is fine to use on a standard 250 6.

MBHD
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#82107 - 08/21/14 09:18 PM Re: Update [Re: McGoo]
McGoo Offline
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Loc: Airdrie, Alberta
Food for thought.
I'll check with a couple other people I know about their choice of damper on their inline 6, some of which are going over 7000 RPM.
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