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#86312 - 07/10/15 09:00 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
gbauer Offline
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Ian: check the Camaros.org thread again. Someone there is selling his pod set for $100.

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#86313 - 07/10/15 10:28 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
TurboCamaro Offline
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Thanks for the heads up. I have the forum subscribed but since I posted I've tossed and turned on it. I just don't really like Pillar gauges so I'm going to do a column boost gauge and 3 above the heater controls. I'm never gonna get air conditioning anyway.

Thanks again,

Ian
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#86314 - 07/11/15 06:04 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
Herb I.I.#3241 Offline
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google cyberdyne gauges. I got volt-h2o temp-oil pressure for #165 shipped (in US) with 4 color lenses. very niceyou were thinking digital I hope?
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#86399 - 07/18/15 01:09 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
TurboCamaro Offline
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Thanks for the cyberdyne referral. I thought I had something until I realized the gauges I want, specifically Boost and Wideband are more expensive. I think they increased the price of their "performance" gauges to make up for the cheaper cost of their standard gauges.

I'm pretty confident I'll be going with an analog AutoMeter gauge. I've read almost all the internet has to offer on the differences between analog and digital display gauges since I noticed your question, and the internet says "get the one you like the look of more". They are both accurate but one shows a needle sweep and the other a precise number. Some argue the sweep is valuable while others say its hard to read a needle on the fly. I hear the digital number rapidly changing at night can be a distraction too. Either way, my old car with all analog gauges is going to get more semi-matching analog gauges. Probably mechanical Boost gauge and an electric oil pressure gauge as I don't like oil lines running into the passenger compartment.

Either way, I'm pretty set on AutoMeter now, best bang for your buck it seems, at least as far as the gauges I want. On the hunt for a deal now.

Ian
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#86472 - 07/22/15 09:35 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
TurboCamaro Offline
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Hey, when I hookup a mechanical boost gauge, will the source be ideal for measuring vacuum as well? If so, would it be beneficial to get a vacuum/boost gauge or should I stick with a boost only gauge with a more suitable range?

Thanks
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#86485 - 07/22/15 04:29 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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Yes , get a Vacuum/Boost gauge.

MBHD
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#86523 - 07/28/15 01:50 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
TurboCamaro Offline
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Thanks for the info on the gauges. I know what I want now, just a matter of ordering.

I made a trip to the US yesterday and grabbed all my waiting parts... it was like Christmas came early. I'll post some pics below.


SPA Turbo Wastegate



Wyntonm BOV w/3" OD Pipe Flange



CXRacing T4 GT35 Turbo 0.68 AR



Devils Own Stage 1 Meth Kit



CXRacing 3" Polished Piping Kit



FMP Racing 28"X9"X2.5" Intercooler



CompCams Custom Grind Cam



CompCams Hydraulic Lifters 812-12


I've inspected everything to the best of my ability and it all looks good. No obvious flaws. Turbo turbines spin freely. Cam feels smooth. I'm pretty happy with the parts received, especially for the dollars spent.

I don't want to crowd this post with questions so I'll break here.

Ian

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#86524 - 07/28/15 02:00 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
TurboCamaro Offline
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So I got my new wastegate yesterday and it looks good, except I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to mount it. The wastegate has a 3 bolt inlet and a 2 bold outlet.

The way I understand it, I only have two options. I can weld a pipe with a 3 bolt flange onto the 292 exhaust manifold, or make up some kind of adapter/spacer between the 292 manifold outlet and the turbo that has a 3 bold flange coming off it.

I've been looking for a picture of a turbo setup using the 292 exhaust manifold, but haven't had any luck.

Ian
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#86548 - 07/31/15 09:41 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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You could possibly bore a hole in the exhaust manifold (where it is flat & thick), & mount the wastegate direct to the exhaust manifold?

Just a thought anyways.

MBHD
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#86962 - 09/05/15 11:02 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
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Made another trip to the US yesterday. I came into some money and ordered some non-turbo items too (Scat Procar Rally Seats, Retrosound Vintage Stereo, Lower valance spoiler and some misc interior parts).


Spectre Performance 8131 Black 4" Cone Air Filter



Spectre Performance 9849 4" Single Air Intake Plenum. I wish I would have ordered the low profile nut too.



Ross Forged piston set 5.7 rod .040 overbore. True Flat top design.


Pistons shown above. Ordered and received in less than 5 business days from 12bolt.com. TLowe was quick with replies and must have sent them out right away. You can click any of the images to zoom in.

All is going well here except now I have pretty much all the stuff I'll need to start working on the turbo setup and I find myself a bit nervous to get started. I'm good with researching and spending money obviously, but the actual process of tearing it down is a bit daunting.

Ian
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#87042 - 09/11/15 09:26 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
McGoo Offline
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Daunting but fun.

I ended up sending the car out for more work than I originally intended to. My fabrication skills are less than stellar.
We all need a guy like Hank living next door!

Paul
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EFI Turbo 250 project well under way.

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#87043 - 09/11/15 11:27 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
tlowe #1716 Offline
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Good luck and get ready to do some tuning when it comes back.
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#87053 - 09/12/15 08:45 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: McGoo]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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Originally Posted By: McGoo

We all need a guy like Hank living next door!

Paul

If that is meant for me thanks, I'll take it!

If not disregard. laugh

MBHD
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#87054 - 09/12/15 09:16 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
McGoo Offline
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Absolutely meant for you.
I have seen the pictures of your handy work.
Pretty fine stuff indeed.

Paul
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V8 camaros are like navels,...everybody has one.
EFI Turbo 250 project well under way.

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#87066 - 09/13/15 10:58 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: McGoo]
Mean buzzen half dozen A.K.A. Hank Offline
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Originally Posted By: McGoo
Absolutely meant for you.
I have seen the pictures of your handy work.
Pretty fine stuff indeed.

Paul


Well in that case I'll take it.
I try to learn & improve with each project.

Thank you.
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#87744 - 11/18/15 02:18 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
TurboCamaro Offline
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It's been a while but an update is in order. I bought an engine stand and rented a hoist the other day and got the engine out.

Today I ripped the engine down to a short block. Everything went really smooth and it helped my engine confidence quite a bit. I don't have a breaker bar so I had to get creative to get enough leverage on some of the bolts (those darn head bolts).

Over the last few days I've been calling around to various Machine shops (off island of course) and have had a wide range of attitudes and prices. Interestingly enough, the shop with the best price is also the most conveniently located and the owner had a great attitude about the project. One of the shops actually said "you really want to throw all you're money at an inline 6?!". Needless to say I won't be taking my engine there. Even the cheaper, friendly shop quoted me $500-1000 for all the parts/labor.

To get quotes, I've been asking for the following:
Hot Tank
Magnaflux
Bore and hone cylinders (Pistons .040 over)
Balance and Polish Crank
Drill and thread crank nose for damper extractor/installer tool
Install Cam Bearings (seems cheaper than buying tool)


Now, I have some concerns about assembly. I can acquire a piston ring compressor but I'm a little hesitant to buy the tools required to degree the camshaft. They are not available for rent here. Other than that, I'm pretty sure I can install the pistons, and torque everything to spec without too much trouble.



Got the engine out and ready for disassembly.



Should I be having the shop "port" these so that large bolt boss is cleared? I've seen TLowes lump port videos showing how the head bolts to the block using a socket and extension through the original top hole.



Pulled the head off to reveal the Piston tops. No obvious sings of damage to me but guess I won't know until the're out and clean.



Machine shop asked me to confirm if the cylinders had been bored before. I don't have a micrometer so... any thoughts?



Got about this far today and pulled the oil pump. Probably pull the pistons out tomorrow, being sure to cover the rod bolts for safety.


So, still a ways to go but it's happening. As a re-cap on the questions...

Should I have the machine shop port the heads?
Do I need to degree the cam or is they're a way around it?
Am I missing any other critical services for a half way accurate quote?


Thanks for your help. Please feel free to add any tips or tricks about the tear down, machine shops or assembly as all I have are books, forums and Youtube; I'd hate to miss something.

Ian


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#87749 - 11/19/15 07:25 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
TheSilverBuick Offline
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I always enjoy disassembling an engine (unless of course I had just assembled it... =P )

For the pistons, clean the carbon off the tops and if its been bored you should find a stamping on them showing a number for its over size. Some of them get fuzzy with use, but out of six pistons at least one will be readable. If you cannot find a stamping on any of them, its a very good chance they are standard bore.

Here are the stampings on my OHC L6. They are easier to read in person than in the photos.

Right at the top of the picture.




And these pistons were crusty. I used a wire wheel to clean them, but brake clean and a scotchbrite pads can get you there. This engine had two different styles of pistons in it for some reason. Both were 0.030" over bored. When I first pulled the head off I was expecting the two different pistons to be a different size =P






Edited by TheSilverBuick (11/19/15 07:27 AM)
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#87755 - 11/19/15 01:35 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
TurboCamaro Offline
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Pulled the rest of the pistons today and procrastinated cleaning them up. Cleaned one up and wouldn't you know it, "060" stamped on all of them. Son of a beech, my .040 pistons arn't going to work on this block. I've made some calls and apparently these blocks are highly sought after in my area and people pay top dollar for them. Machine shop quoted me $900 to sleeve all 6 cylinders, which might be the cheapest way to get a solid block.

I'm bringing the stripped block to the machine shop on Saturday to see if it would accept .060 over pistons. If it will, I'll have to see about swapping pistons to get back on track.... ugg.









Ian
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#87759 - 11/19/15 02:11 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
CNC-Dude #5585 Offline
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You always bore the block before you order pistons. It seems that more times than not you have a block that is already too big or just won't cleanup in the bores for the pistons you bought. The same for buying your bearings before you turn the crank.
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#87761 - 11/19/15 02:54 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
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Bummer! I normally agree on not buying the pistons or bearings before knowing what the clean up work on the block and crank are, unfortunately tlowe's pistons only come in 0.040" so you are kind of forced to find an acceptable block to get the good priced pistons.

I plan on buying those same pistons eventually, but I have one block that is 0.030" over and one standard bore block to work with (Pontiac L6's).

I would think you'd be able to find a serviceable bare block for under $500. In the mean time, you could always do what I did on my OHC, modify and clean up the head some, slam the bottom end back together, reusing everything, and get your car running with the turbo system (only running 4-6psi) while you are looking for a good block to use. Then after you assemble the good short block you can make a weekend out of pulling the engine, swapping heads, and putting the good engine back into the car. Then turn up the boost! =D
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#87762 - 11/19/15 03:13 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TheSilverBuick]
CNC-Dude #5585 Offline
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Ross Pistons is a club advertiser and offers generous club discounts to Inliner International members in what ever size you need. So don't settle for .040 over just because that's the only oversize Tom chooses to stock.
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#87764 - 11/19/15 05:07 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
tlowe #1716 Offline
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I do have those pistons in .060 also. Doubt that would help though. Can also supply the Ross pistons in about any size needed. Some guy's need bigger, even had one guy order standard size. Can supply them cheaper than you can get them with a 10% discount. And give credit back for yours.
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#87767 - 11/19/15 07:48 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: CNC-Dude #5585]
stock49 Online   content

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Originally Posted By: CNC-Dude #5585
Ross Pistons is a club advertiser and offers generous club discounts to Inliner International members in what ever size you need. So don't settle for .040 over just because that's the only oversize Tom chooses to stock.


I'm with CNC-Dude. Don't get ahead of yourself. Accept that you are custom building and follow the sequencing. If the block magna-fluxes OK then it can be reused. The out-of-round measured by a machinist will dictate what the minimum over bore needs to be in order to square the bores. If it comes back .070 or .080 then Ross can build a piston to that spec. Moreover, a good shop won't final hone the bores until the actual pistons are in their hands. The guys at Ross drop shipped my pistons to my machinist for just this reason.

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#87769 - 11/19/15 11:44 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
TurboCamaro Offline
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I appreciate the info here guys. I screwed up as I presumed the block was either original, or maybe only .020 or .030 over. This is a learning experience I will never forget, and never repeat. Best case scenario is good ol' Tom will credit me for my untouched .040's and be able to get me what I need. Shipping those pistons back and forth from Canada might be pricey but better than sleeving or looking for a block for my pistons. I found a guy near Vancouver who has a rough looking 250 and he wants $650 for it. I'd have to take 2 ferries to fetch it which would run me $90 each way. Obviously I wouldn't purchase the first one I found but it's a good indication of the "deals" around here.

Assuming my block can be salvaged, Any thoughts on what the MAX overbore I'd want to go with? I've been working with the idea .060 is the end of the line.

Also, how does the camshaft come out? I understand the gear is pressed on, but their isn't much to grab to pull it out. Wooden block and a mallet? Also, the oil filter adapter is rock solid, does it just unscrew like anything else?

Thanks again for all the input!

Ian
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#87772 - 11/20/15 06:16 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
stock49 Online   content

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20/30/40/60 are 'stock' over sizes . . .

Leo Santucci's book shows displacement specs with over bores up to .125 (Page 28).

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#87774 - 11/20/15 06:31 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: tlowe #1716]
TheSilverBuick Offline
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Originally Posted By: tlowe #1716
I do have those pistons in .060 also. Doubt that would help though. Can also supply the Ross pistons in about any size needed. Some guy's need bigger, even had one guy order standard size. Can supply them cheaper than you can get them with a 10% discount. And give credit back for yours.


That's good info, I didn't think you did any other sizes. In this case, I'd have the machinist sonic check the block and if the walls are thick take it out to 0.070-0.080" and get pistons accordingly. The pistons might be more, but it sounds like its a cheaper option than locating and finding a new engine.
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#87775 - 11/20/15 06:59 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
CNC-Dude #5585 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ian67
Also, how does the camshaft come out? I understand the gear is pressed on, but their isn't much to grab to pull it out. Wooden block and a mallet? Also, the oil filter adapter is rock solid, does it just unscrew like anything else?


Ian



Hey, there's nothing to be ashamed about getting the wrong size pistons, it happens a lot, we all get anxious at times.

As for the cam, put the mallet away. The cam is held in place by (2) bolts that are behind the cam gear. The two large holes in the face of the cam gear allow access to these bolts. Just rotate the crank while peering through these holes until the bolt heads become visible. Once you remove them, it will come right out. You'll need to save the thrust plate and spacer that are on the current cam and swap them to the new one before reinstalling the cam in the engine.
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#87777 - 11/20/15 07:30 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
gbauer Offline
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See the screws in the holes in the cam gear? Those hold the retaining plate in. Rotate the cam until you can get to them and use a bit screwdriver.

I somehow hit the lotto when I did mine. The screws were lined up when I pulled off the cover.

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#87779 - 11/20/15 07:32 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
gbauer Offline
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In this pic you can see the holes where the screws were and the gun made a nice outline where the retainer was.



and another pic:





Hope this helps.

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#87785 - 11/20/15 11:48 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
TurboCamaro Offline
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Those pics help a lot. I'm a bit saddened I didn't figure that out. I figured the gear was pressed on and those 2 holes were for some kind of pulling tool.

I was cleaning the block last night and noticed a small brass plate rivitted to the back end with "Remanufactured" and some numbers on it. Is that a common thing for machine shops to do? I attached a pre-cleaned image of it below.



I'm sure it doesn't matter but I tried googling it and found nothing of certainty.

I'll let you know how it goes at the shop tomorrow.

Ian
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#87786 - 11/20/15 11:52 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
gbauer Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ian67
Those pics help a lot. I'm a bit saddened I didn't figure that out. I figured the gear was pressed on and those 2 holes were for some kind of pulling tool.


I wouldn't have known without either asking for stumbling on it myself.

As to the plate? Never seen one but then again I'm no expert on the 250. I actually know more about BMW engines than these.

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#87787 - 11/20/15 11:54 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
gbauer Offline
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Do me a favor if you have a moment and are doing it anyway: Can you pull the oil pan off and take a pic from the side so I can see how far down stuff goes into the deep part of the sump? My oil pan is bent and now the engine has a slight knock. I think it's interference but not sure.

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#87788 - 11/20/15 12:06 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
TurboCamaro Offline
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It's all stripped now but I took a ton of pictures at the time.. I don't have the exact angle you want though. The bottom one is alright but doesn't show the oil pump.







Ian
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#87800 - 11/20/15 08:34 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
mshaw230 Offline
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Loc: Washington State
Originally Posted By: Ian67
I appreciate the info here guys. I screwed up as I presumed the block was either original, or maybe only .020 or .030 over. This is a learning experience I will never forget, and never repeat. Best case scenario is good ol' Tom will credit me for my untouched .040's and be able to get me what I need. Shipping those pistons back and forth from Canada might be pricey but better than sleeving or looking for a block for my pistons. I found a guy near Vancouver who has a rough looking 250 and he wants $650 for it. I'd have to take 2 ferries to fetch it which would run me $90 each way. Obviously I wouldn't purchase the first one I found but it's a good indication of the "deals" around here.

Assuming my block can be salvaged, Any thoughts on what the MAX overbore I'd want to go with? I've been working with the idea .060 is the end of the line.

Also, how does the camshaft come out? I understand the gear is pressed on, but their isn't much to grab to pull it out. Wooden block and a mallet? Also, the oil filter adapter is rock solid, does it just unscrew like anything else?

Thanks again for all the input!

Ian


Ian, I'm two to three hours south of Vancouver. Once my current block checks out, I'll be ready to release my spare block and all the pieces for a song. Maybe a Canadian six pack as I'm using the crank to convert my 230 to a 250. The block is upside down now, but this weekend i'll get all of the pistons out and check the bore on the block. I don't remember seeing any markings, but that doesn't mean a lot yet. The block should be bored before being used again. Look for one of my other posts.


Edited by mshaw230 (11/20/15 08:36 PM)
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'67 Camaro L6-250

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#87812 - 11/21/15 08:54 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
TurboCamaro Offline
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Thanks for the offer Mark! I took the block into the machine shop this morning and he thought it looked freshly bored so it might not need much attention. Their was a block ahead of mine so the hot tank, magnaflux and sonic check won't be done until Tuesday or so. I guess I can get the pistons I have ready for shipping.

If the block turns ugly on me, I'll head to the liquor store for that 6 pack :-)

Ian
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#87820 - 11/22/15 01:54 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
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While I wait... I need to order more stuff. Not sure if it's because I need the parts or I'm just addicted to online part shopping.

Machine shop said my fiber gear was a POS and I needed the steel/alum combo. He specifically suggested not bothering with the adjustable keyway version as he believed I'd be satisfied with stronger stock gears and timing. If I take his suggestion, how about this Melling Timing Gear Sets (2528S)?

I'd like to hope my chosen machine shop is on the ball but I can't be certain how many turbo'd 250s he's worked on and how seriously he took my "I'm on a budget" speech. Sure, I'm on a budget but I don't want to regret it later. However, even if I had the Cloyes gears, I don't have the tools to degree the cam. Gear price difference and tools would probably be another $150CAN, which is becoming a lot of money right now. Is it worth it?

Also.. He said he'd through the main seal in for me and I realized I don't have any gaskets yet. So I'm seeing this Sealed Power Gasket Set (260-1005) as the cheapest brand name set.

Any objections to those linked parts?

Ian
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67' Camaro - Performance 250 build - www.TurboCamaro.ca

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#87822 - 11/22/15 07:25 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
Twisted6 I.I #3220 Offline
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Loc: Palatka FL. USA I.I. # 3220
Be Sure He heats The cam Gear Before he in stalls it. Other wise you will be doing things Over.
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Larry/Twisted6
#3220 }[oooooo] smile
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#87823 - 11/22/15 07:53 AM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: Twisted6 I.I #3220]
TurboCamaro Offline
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Registered: 08/10/10
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Loc: The Island, BC - Canada
Originally Posted By: Twisted6 I.I #3220
Be Sure He heats The cam Gear Before he in stalls it. Other wise you will be doing things Over.
haha thanks for the reminder. I remember Snowman's issue with the pressed on gear, not fun. You don't have an opinion on the need for adjustable gears?

Ian
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67' Camaro - Performance 250 build - www.TurboCamaro.ca

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#87826 - 11/22/15 12:56 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
Twisted6 I.I #3220 Offline
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Registered: 07/04/00
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Loc: Palatka FL. USA I.I. # 3220
Most cams can go in straight UP. For opp. Performance Most will degree the cam. But for a daily driver You should be fine just in stalling straight up. ( meaning not to worry to much about having it degreed in.) Just my cheap 2cents.
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Larry/Twisted6
#3220 }[oooooo] smile
Adding CFM adds boost smile
shocked God doesn't like ugly.

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#87827 - 11/22/15 01:56 PM Re: 67 Camaro - Blown 250 [Re: TurboCamaro]
TurboCamaro Offline
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Registered: 08/10/10
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Loc: The Island, BC - Canada
I've watched pretty much all the YouTube videos on degreeing cams and the only reason I might have wantes to do it would be to confirm the specs of the cam. It was a custom grind by CompCams but I'd like to think their quality control is good enough not to have to check it. Thanks for your cents Twisted.

Ian
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67' Camaro - Performance 250 build - www.TurboCamaro.ca

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