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#92385 - 08/22/17 04:39 PM 700r4
Magneto Offline
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Have a63 Bel Air with a 230-6.I have Langdon cast exhaust and dual carbs.
I have decided to change the three speed stick over to an automatic. Im going to use a 700r4 and I'm kind of stuck on how to connect the Tv cable.
I was hoping someone here has done this conversion and can post a picture of how they did it. I'm needing ideas so seeing it would help.

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#92388 - 08/22/17 04:54 PM Re: 700r4 [Re: Magneto]
efi-diy Offline
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Save yourself the headache of getting the TV cable sorted out and run a 4l60e - with a controller - just need a string type TPS sensor and they are way easier to install. 4L60e are readily available as production stopped in 2009 unlike the 700 which stopped in '92/93.

check out

https://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.c...ion_Controller/

they work really well.


Edited by efi-diy (08/22/17 04:56 PM)
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#92395 - 08/22/17 08:30 PM Re: 700r4 [Re: Magneto]
Blackwater Online   content
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The first question is which carbs are you using?

There are a number of aftermarket adaptive kits but they are carb specific. I'm using a 700R4 in my 153" Chevy II four banger with a handmade tubular ram intake and a NASCAR 390 Holley and it works flawlessly!

Your best bet is to have a REAL transmission specialist set up the cable linkage. THEN you won't be dependent on expensive electronics. I love some of the electronic controls and the like, but they ARE prone to stacking small anomalies into major malfunctions at times.
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#92396 - 08/22/17 08:33 PM Re: 700r4 [Re: Magneto]
tlowe #1716 Offline
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Another option for the cable is to hook it directly up to the throttle in the car, near your foot.
Bowtie overdrives has great explanations on their website for the TV cable.
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#92397 - 08/22/17 09:08 PM Re: 700r4 [Re: Blackwater]
efi-diy Offline
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Originally Posted By: Blackwater
SNIP THEN you won't be dependent on expensive electronics. I love some of the electronic controls and the like, but they ARE prone to stacking small anomalies into major malfunctions at times.


I can tell you have not run a simple shift - there are at least 6 of them close by me, running in various cars with no issues.

Turn 2 knobs to set low and high throttle shift points, 2 knobs to set low and high shift throttle firmness and 2 more to set low and high t/c lock up points. Once you have it set where you like it - mount it up under the dash and forget about it.
Try changing shift point on a 700 with having ATF running down your arms....


Edited by efi-diy (08/22/17 09:14 PM)
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#92402 - 08/23/17 11:54 AM Re: 700r4 [Re: efi-diy]
Blackwater Online   content
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Originally Posted By: efi-diy
Originally Posted By: Blackwater
SNIP THEN you won't be dependent on expensive electronics. I love some of the electronic controls and the like, but they ARE prone to stacking small anomalies into major malfunctions at times.


I can tell you have not run a simple shift - there are at least 6 of them close by me, running in various cars with no issues.

Turn 2 knobs to set low and high throttle shift points, 2 knobs to set low and high shift throttle firmness and 2 more to set low and high t/c lock up points. Once you have it set where you like it - mount it up under the dash and forget about it.
Try changing shift point on a 700 with having ATF running down your arms....


If your 700R4 is set up right, you don't have to fool with it. Have several NHRA World Record Holders using the 700R4 successfully with little or no issues. My little brother does 'em for a living!!! Many, many successful street rods and customs that perform flawlessly on the street as well!!!!

Electronics are GREAT!! But they ain't the "Be All and End All" of the automotive world!! A dead or low battery or a bad connection and your electronics are in jeopardy!! And just try to diagnose an electronic failure on the side of the road at 2:30 in the morning on some remote backroad.

I respect your position on modern electronics and such. I run a big block truck with a 4L80E and fuel injection, I'm building a 406" small block that will run LT4 style fuel injection and a 4L60E, probably with a turbo for my Jeep pickup project.

I also run a Shovelhead Harley Davidson with a six speed trans and an S&S Super B carb and a magneto! There is no part of that vehicle that I can't fix on the side of the road with a flashlight and the tools I have in the saddlebags. "So simple a caveman can do it!!!"!

My little '28 Ford/Dodge rat rod is the same way. As crude as a fart at a wedding and as dependable as a sledgehammer!!

OH!! YEAH!! I can change the shift points on my 700R4 in thirty seconds, barehanded, with a simple cable adjustment!!! No need to fool with fluid or tools or even knobs!!

You'd do better if you'd show the same respect for other ways to do things that you seem to demand from those who choose to do it differently!!

If you have the 700R4 and it works, WHY spend many dollars to change when a $5 to $15 dollar part and a question or two asked and answered will provide the same results???
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#92403 - 08/23/17 11:57 AM Re: 700r4 [Re: tlowe #1716]
Blackwater Online   content
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Originally Posted By: tlowe #1716
Another option for the cable is to hook it directly up to the throttle in the car, near your foot.
Bowtie overdrives has great explanations on their website for the TV cable.


+1
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#92405 - 08/23/17 01:22 PM Re: 700r4 [Re: Magneto]
panic Online   content
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Unlike other AT controls (like 727) the relationship WRT motion and effect between the throttle linkage and the AT linkage is not linear.
There is a complex trigonometric relationship between the 2 motion paths that is not possible to achieve by attaching the TV cable to the carburetor linkage. The key is that the point of rotation on each half at idle is different, so the range of motion is not symmetrical.
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/techinfo/700R4p1.html
Does it work? Evidently well enough not to fail, but not the way GM intended.

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#92406 - 08/23/17 03:25 PM Re: 700r4 [Re: Magneto]
Blackwater Online   content
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Hurst and Holley both offer linkage adapters that provide the proper geometry for the 700R4 cable. I think the one I used on Lockjaw was Hurst. It was less than $20.00 for the link and a bracket that mounts the TV cable and the throttle cable. A little creative fabrication could easily adapt it to another carb, (QuadraJet, Carter, or even Chrysler/Ford)!! It would STILL be far less expensive than a complete tranny replacement and a lot less labor too!!

I've seen 700s behind a Hemi and several Ford engine combinations and they're working.
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#92409 - 08/23/17 06:50 PM Re: 700r4 [Re: Magneto]
panic Online   content
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The "ah ha!" moment for me was when I noticed that the clock position of the linkage arms to the bell-crank were very specific. A lever attached at 0 degrees (12 o'clock) moves much faster (back toward the firewall) than one attached at 45 degrees (but not twice as much) when the crank rotates, and of course one at 90 degrees doesn't move at all, and one at 91 degrees (past 3 o'clock) moves backward. As the crank rotates, the relative speeds of the attachment points changes again, but you need trigonometry to establish exactly how many thousandths per degree for both points.

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#92411 - 08/24/17 08:45 AM Re: 700r4 [Re: Magneto]
Blackwater Online   content
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You have to keep the distance from the pivot point to the attaching point on the lever in mind as well. Bearing in mind that the attaching point may need to be indexed somewhere other than at 0 degrees either +/- of 12 o'clock to accomplish the desired relative cable action/position, taking reference observations and simple measurements can, in effect, take the place of complicated math.

On my rat, the swing starts at between 4 and 5 o'clock and swings to between 7 and 8 o'clock. The distance the TV cable travels is about a third of the distance that the throttle cable travels. These measurements are transferable.

The TV cable and throttle valve aren't THAT sensitive. The cable housing allows for minor adjustments. A click or two in one direction or the other will not jeopardize the life of the transmission so long as the setting is within nominal parameters and that one or two clicks can make sizable differences in performance and drivability.
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#92412 - 08/25/17 07:06 AM Re: 700r4 [Re: Magneto]
panic Online   content
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With your kind permission?
If the clock positions are identical (both links join the carburetor arm at the same degree of rotation) the motion ratio between the throttle linkage and the TV linkage will be exactly the proportion of the distances from the link attachment point to the throttle shaft center.
Example only: the throttle cable and TV cable both attach at 11 o'clock (slightly forward of vertical). The throttle cable is located 2" from the throttle shaft, the TV cable is 1-1/2" from the throttle shaft. The TV cable's motion is 1-1/2" / 2" = 75%. The link closer to the shaft is always slower.

However: if their clock positions differ, the link closest to 90 degrees from horizontal will always move fastest.

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#92413 - 08/25/17 10:39 AM Re: 700r4 [Re: Magneto]
Blackwater Online   content
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(However: if their clock positions differ, the link closest to 90 degrees from horizontal will always move fastest.) quote

Only partially true. If the distance is enough larger for the attaching point that is farther from vertical, it may move faster.

Also, you must keep your perspective of horizontal. The cable housing for the TV cable may differ in point of attachment from that of the housing for the throttle cable, OR the throttle linkage may not include a cable at all, i.e. a rod type linkage or even electric solenoid. These examples produce a different aspect for horizontal.

What has to be maintained, or duplicated, it the travel of the cable in its original application. If the cable worked a certain way on that old V6 Chevy Malibu you got the transmission from, you have to duplicate that cable action to reproduce the TV cable's stroke in your new application. There IS a little wiggle room, so you don't have to be absolutely PERFECT, but ya' gotta' get close!!
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#92459 - 09/07/17 07:30 AM Re: 700r4 [Re: Magneto]
gbauer Offline
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Loc: Maryland
I did a 2004r swap last winter.




Pivot point:



Bracket:



(note that shift cable attaches on the bottom, throttle on top)



Guts on the 2004r. You'll also want to put in a vacuum actuated lockup.

more info: http://www.camaros.net/forums/27-transmi...xtra-parts.html

More info: http://www.camaros.net/forums/133-build-projects/371897-another-slow-6-banger.html

That's my full build thread over at Camaros.net.

Hope that helps.

Good place to go for parts: http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/catalog/catalog.php?Action=GETSUBCAT&CATID=X

All told I think I was in it for about $300 on top of the transmission to do it right. I really wouldn't try to cheap out here as if you don't get the linkages right you'll burn up the transmission.

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#92460 - 09/07/17 09:39 AM Re: 700r4 [Re: Magneto]
Blackwater Online   content
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That linkage is similar to the setup on my 700R4. I was given the transmission and decided it would be an excellent replacement for the PowerGlide that came with my 4cyl. powered rat.

The linkage adapter and bracket cost me around $35.00, (I mistakenly quoted $15.00 for the link.)

I studied the linkage on a pickup truck similarly equipped to the one my transmission came from. That was free.

I bought a new cable. $13.50

I replaced the filter and fluid. $47.00

I didn't need the vacuum unit as the lockup on a 700 is controlled by the cable and the governor.

My total swap was less than $100.00!! I got lucky on the cost of the tranny itself. On the rest of it, I used my head, my experience, and the knowledge of others more experienced than myself!!

gbauer is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!! Don't cheap out here. Also!! Don't be braindead!! LOOK! STUDY!! ASK IF YOU DON"T KNOW!!!


Edited by Blackwater (09/07/17 09:43 AM)
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