Inliners International Forums General Discussion Engines Oil filter for 261

OH NO...another question from this guy!
Is it ok to use a O'Brien Truckers Hilderbrandt oil filter that has a 3/8 NPT on my 261 which has 1/2 NPT if I use the proper fittings? Does the 261 HAVE to use 1/2 NPT????

Thanks again,
Tom

Dear Tom;

I wouldn't do anything that restricts the oil flow.

I put a 1/2" by-pass line in mine. Don't want to chance a line leaking on exhause etc.

Good luck, John M.....

PS: Many will argue the logic here, but using industrial oil & changing often the filter isn't needed. All those hoses/fire hazard are eliminated making a 'cleaner' design.

They weren't a factory item until 1963 which was no where near the exhaust.

Greetings . . .

John, I love the way you remind us what the 'old school' intended . . . and you'll get no argument from me. And I think I can help with the logic part.

Modern motor oils contain all kinds of additives, including detergents that emulsify water and suspend dirt. They are in fact formulated to be filtered.

But these old engines were designed to run a non-detergent oil. These oils weren't formulated at all - "straight 20 weight" or "straight 30" oils simply deposit the dirt in the pan - which the local mechanic would scrape during routine maintenance.

So I agree with John. Heck with the filter. Just change the oil more often.

But I run modern oil in my 216 and change it every 1000 miles. Because the service interval in the manual assumes "straight weight oil" and that dirt is being deposited in the pan as opposed to suspended.

stock49

Well, sounds good but what of the bits of dirt in the oil or odd metal bits that didn't quite settle into the oil pan?
The oil pump just pumps them to the bearings and we shouldn't care?
I'm no fan of high tech but I have to believe that some things are being done a little better than the old days; namely filtration and lubricants. The old engines were designed for what was available at the time.

see: http://www.inliners.org/tech/fullflow1.html
This would seem like the way to go.

The better truck engines of the day had full flow oil filters.

Hi Pete . . .

I am actually a big fan of high tech . . . but not on an early fifties era hot-rod.

There are all kinds of things that are done better today. But where does one stop. For example, Jay Leno has a really sweet Roadmaster that sports 4 wheel independent suspension (borrowed from a Vett) and a big-block v-thingie 'crate motor' that makes 700 horses. It's all modern "drive and forget technology" and it looks like it would be loads of fun to drive . . .but in my book it's no longer a '55 Buick . . . but I digress.

Modern oils and filtration systems were designed with two objectives, improved performance and extended maintenance intervals. In road racing the trend went to smaller displacement higher reving engines. Tight tolerances at high rpm is no place for dirt. For the street, Detroit wanted to offer a car that didn't need to be tweaked and tuned every other month - not to mention one that would be reliable in spite of the neglect that most of the driving public dishes out. Hence the modern car that can go 7500 miles between oil changes.

So do these old 235/261 engines really need full flow filtration? Does a 216 really need full pressure oiling? For recreational driving, probably not.

Does this mean I'm ignoring a little dirt and grit between oil changes for the sake of a stock look and experience? Probably.

Is this the only answer. Nope.

In the end its all up to the owner of the vehicle and what they are trying to accomplish.

regards,
stock49

Interesting! My 261 is a full flow truck motor 58-62. It's sitting in the engine bay in my 51 Coupe. It's been rebuilt and has not yet been fired up. This car will see very limited driving cuz I have 3 others that I play with. So, I CAN bypass the external remote filter if I maintain it more often????? SWEEEEEET! Cleaner firewall! but dirtier oil!

John H., Does the "by pass" line just go from the outlet to the inlet on teh block??? Is it that simple????????

Dear Snegrah;

Yes sir, that's all.

I had mine made at a shop that makes hoses (custom) for heavy equipment.

Dello 400 SAE 30 oil uses a detergent that lasts 4000 miles & works @ 200F all day long. These are conditions that your engine will never see.

Motor oil sold to the general public 'gives up the ship' (detergent) in about 12-1800 miles & therefore needs to be filtered because (gen public) doesn't change regular etc.

Good luck, John M.....

In my opinion, if you spend good money on rebuilding an engine and don't use a full flow filter,well.......especially since the 58 and up 261's are equipped for a filter and it's so easy to adapt a full flow filter on older Chevys and GMC's.

Dear Tony;

That option was for commercial usage and was designed (by GM) accordingly. The topic starter stated it was in a 47 coupe & not commercial.

If you ever saw what oil fire can do you might have a different view.

John M.......

If you use quality hoses, proper fittings, and follow sound engineering ,the chances of a fire are zero.
Modern engines last 250,000 miles with indifferent maintainence,may be because of better tolerances and materials and for sure modern oils and oil filters contribute.

Yo, John H.,
What and where is Dello 400 SAE 30 oil?

Tom

I recently asket Tom Langdon why the old chevy/gmc engines had such a short life span. He replied that it was due to the miserable air filters, lack of full flow oil filters, and cast iron rings. He thought the old engines should run 100k+ miles.

The chevy and gmc were, compared to other truck makers , economy engines. Compare the warrantees offered back then.

Dear Tom;

Dello is a Standard Oil/Chevron product used in diesel trucks.

Most NAPA stores sell it, or you can get at 'truck stops'. Kragen may have it too.

FYI: I recently tore down a 216"(1948)for a customer. It has 133,000 orginal miles on it, with one 'valve job'. There was 1 1/2 inches of sludge in the pan. The babbit rods & insert mains are still usable & so is the cam and rocker assembly. There is almost no 'ring ridge' and I assume the pistons are good also.

Guess what; Stock air cleaner & no oil filter. This is a Sedan Delivery that delivered milk in S. Dakota.

JM......

John H.M.,
Coincidently, I was in a NAPA store today and saw the DELO (Dello?) oil! It's costly and I will get it! Didn't have the $ today. I SERIOUSLY doube that mine will see 33K let alone 133K miles! Breaking in the motor with this stuff is ok? Or should I use another to break in and then switch to DELO?????
Tom

If you have a 58-62 261 then you should be using a filter of some kind, either the stock setup or one of those spin on adapter setups, or something equivelant. First thing to check on is if the pin near the front oil line is flush with the outside of the block, or if it is recessed. If recessed, then it is in full flow mode, and if you try to just plug the lines and run without a filter, you will not have a engine that will be running for very long.

Concerning advise given about running without a filter, this is fine for the earlier engines that were bypass only, since very little oil got filtered, and it just got dumped back into the pan with the dirty oil. For ANY engine that has the ability to run full flow, then you should be running a filter, period. I don't hear anybody advising removing oil filters from there modern vehicles??

Dear Tom;

Sure, use a lesser expensive oil for break-in. Non detergent SAE 20, if you can find it. You will need to change it a few times so get 15 Qt.

If you change at 500 miles, 1,000 & 2,000 will cover the 'break-in' period.

Truck stops should have it as the 'adverage' parts counter person won't know what non-detergent is.

'Gearhead' is correct; You can't "plug the holes" as that will stop the oil from flowing etc. Also; there are some nice kits with "spin on" adapters but in your case It's just not practical.

"Modern engines" do not position the filter lines next to the exhaust. Looking under the hood of a 51 Chevy will reslove this question forever.

My customer with the 48 Sedan Delivery probably changed the oil every 1,000 miles which was the custom back then and for this reason alone is why it lasted like it did.

Today we have better oils and great filters for everything, super highways, fast oil changes and the adverage car is junk in 5 years.

How & Why you say; Because the public in gernral views the automobile like a pair of shoes. Use till worn out and buy new. Ever see Shoe Shine Stands anymore????

JM.....

i build motors and i do not like any dirt in them at all. and i have never seen one of the 261 oil filters leak. and have run more then one. as far as non detergent oil use it in the squirt can not the motor.

I'm running Delo 400 15W-40 in my 261 and I have noticed a big change in how quiet the engine runs since I did it. I was using Valvoline 10W-40 and who knows what was used in the past. It still has the original cannister oil filter. I have also noticed less draft tube smoke. My engine is, as far as I know, original '62 and has never been rebuilt. It had the green paint still on it when I got it. It has bad valve guide seals so it smokes a little, but the Delo has really cleaned a lot of sludge out of the engine and the valvetrain is a lot quieter and smoother now.