Inliners International Forums General Discussion Hi Performance what do you think

250 block + 194 steel crank + steel 327 small block rods (small journal) + forged 283 small block pistons. will this combo work? how long will it last? if yes, then what head do i need? and how many rpm can i turn it before she goes boom? and last what kind of power can i expect with a good top end? by the way it is for a circle track car.
JUST CAUSE I WANT TO BE DIFFRENT. I DONT WANT TO BE JUST ANOTHER V8!!!

Just a Question for you. why not stay with the 250 and rods and Use the 307 pistons.What your going to end up building is a 230. why keep the cubic in.
example 307 flat tops 194 head neting???(10-1 compression) ball park not know what you may or may not mill off the head.Also depending on the cam. Rpm range can be anytihng from 6000 to 7000 rpm plus?? And Like any Motor How long it may last Depends on HOW OR WHO built. I ran the same 250 for 17yrs and never had it apart and it was a daily drive turned 100% drag car after a few yrs as a daily driver NO changes to the motor Other then intake system. AND Better gears out back. And the motor was stil runing Strong when I desided to rebuild it. many & bigger Up grade only reason for rebuild.

Ps And I ran 7000 plus rpms. Never left the line Less then 5000rpms.
I knwo i may not have really answered you,But i hope this helps }[oooooo]

Dear Bubba;

Don't try to re-invent the wheel.

Build up a 292 & 'bolt in' some Saurday.

The only reason Larry & the "drag race" folks use the 250 is to save weight.

Good luck, John M....

Why bother with 327 rods? They are almost the same as the 6 cyl rods, same center distance and same size rod bolts, and overall not really much stronger. Even the so called Pink Rods everyone was hot over for a 350 were only regular rods that the factory stress relieved. Of course the 350 rods are for the larger journal crank.

If you are thinking you might gain some added rpm because of a shorter stroke over a 250 it won't be worth all the effort unless you go with light weight high dollar rods and pistons as well. The only reason I can think of to build a smaller or odd sized motor is to be targetting a long forgotten class record at Bonneville.

On the other hand we inline guys like to do things others don't and if you have all those parts around and want to use them in your engine then I say have fun. What size and surface track will this run on? Is it a short track with almost no straightaways, or a longer track? The bull ring will require a good handling car and a smooth responsive engine. A long track will need plenty of torque to pull off the corners and still not run out of wind before the end of the chutes. Handling can be a tiny bit less critical on a longer track but not if you are running a 6 banger against 8 cylinder cars that get around better than you. I'd build the biggest engine that will meet the class rules in both cases and then cam it accordingly.

Mike

Bubba may not be too far off base with his engine. Two of the fastest and consistent winners in our Midstate Club are running 230's and they were built by a gentleman who has raced every generation of 6 cyl for about 40 years. I am not about to tell him they don't work, especially as he is blowing by my doors. He likes the torque and smoother performing engine with the 230's and believe it or not, he has run up against small and big blocks on the track and won. Mind you, he knows his car inside out for handling, etc. but that comes with experience.
Good Luck.......Don

the track is a 3/8th mile dirt with med. banking it is more of a handeling track than a horse power track. case in point: my good 350 hung a rod out the side of the block and the only thing i had to replace it with was a stock(and i mean stock) 305 out of an old monte. and the car was actually faster that week. it was not spinning off the corners, could drive it further in the corners, and get back on the gas quicker. the straightaways dont actually straighten out! please keep the info coming guys i have never messed with il6 cyls. and i want this to be a success.

these are our class rules for the v8. me and the tec man is going to have a pow wow about the il6 rules. we are going to have to come up with some rules for me and my "zanie idea to use a il6" says everyone. but any help here would be great.

1) Engine must appear strictly stock for that make and model, and must be in the original mounting location.

2) No limit on cubic inches.

3) Cast iron block and head only. No special aftermarket head, Vortex or 300 HP head. No porting or polishing head or matching gaskets at runner opening. Head must be on correct engine. (350 on 350….305 on 305, etc.)

4) Bore and stroke must agree as manufacturer of engine intended. Maximum over-bore .060 inch with .015 inch allowed for wear.

5) Flat top or dished pistons only. NO part of piston is to be above the deck of the block under normal stroking action at TDC.

6) OEM rods for block used only. NO floating rods. Rods may be balanced. Aftermarket rod bolts permitted.

7) Screws in studs and guide plates are permitted. Poly locks are allowed.

8) Stock valve size for head used: (sbc 305-1.84/1.5/400 sbc 1.94-1.5; 289/302 sbc 1.84-1.54) 3-angle valve job permitted.

9) Roller tip rocker arms allowed. Rocker arm ratio must be stock for engine used. Roller rockers are NOT permitted. NO stud girdles.

10) Any fan, any radiator and any pulley.

11) Stock carburetors, Quadrajet, Motorcraft, Holley (list #3310) dual line single pump vacuum secondary. All carburetors must have air horn. AFB, O.K……NO preditors permitted.

12) Edelbrock Performer aluminum intakes allowed. Chevy #2101 or #2701; Ford 302, #2121; Ford 351W, #2181; Ford 351C, #2665; Chrysler 318, 340 or 360, #2176. Factory aluminum low profile or stock cast iron, O.K. No marine intakes. Part numbers must be on top of intake or it will considered illegal.

13) Stock type battery-fired ignition only. NO MSD boxes.

14) Crankshaft must be factory for block used. NO knife edge. NO grinding or drilling except for balancing only. Stroke must be within .015” (+ -).

15) Any hydraulic cams. NO hydraulic rollers allowed. Stock-type lifters.

16) Adapter plate of a maximum of 1 ½ “ between intake and carburetor, including gaskets.

17) Stock size valve springs.

18) NO electric fuel pumps.

19) Any oil pan.

The only reason I didn't bring up the 292 is because of stock class rules. Their wasn't very many cars that came with the 292.And he never said what car he was running. So to me i didn't see enough info. And as for myself running the 250 for so long Is I only paid 150.for the motor back in 84. Long before I knew everything that I do now. And when I did deside to Build a L6 I had a 70s article on a 230 block @460 hp and my 194 stock Block was cracked from freeze plug to freeze plug when I bought the car itself for 150.bucks also. And seeing that It ran so well and for so long I had no reason realy to replace it at the time. But I do have plans for a 292 long down the road I also Have a turbo and a Blower so who knows what I may do with either Yet at this time.

So if Rules would let you and you can get a 292 some where by All means built it. But on a short track My2cents is I think you'd be happier with the smaller cubes?? for faster RPM climb. hope this helps.}[oooooo]

Ps once you know more Of what you can or can't do with the L6 then we all maybe able to give some better Ideas.

i had wanted to do the same thing run a i6 against the v8's but if you rad the rules you dont have a chance. first you need a lot of head work and they say none and you need a intake other then the stock one. but i agree with you about the smaller engine. i put a 327 in a ca i sponsered he ran as fast as the 355's and the one that was winning had a 305 his handeled better than the others. you would have one advantage if the rules said #1 plug even with the ball joints.

Hmmm.. Engine must appear stock, no limit on cubic inches..... sounds like a 292 to me!!!!
There is one advantage to being the only car there with an I6. They don't have another to compare it to And you are right about a less powerful engine being a faster car sometimes. If you can't hook it up to the ground you aren't going anyplace.
Deck the block to the tops of flat top pistons and I'm sure you'll also need to take .060" off the head to straighten it out . I'd go for 1.94 / 1.50 valves if I could with a really good valve job. Your biggest obstacle seems to be with an intake manifold according to the rules. I'd try to have them allow the Offy 4 bl unit since they allow Edelbrocks for the V8's and Chevy never made a 4bbl manifold for the inlines.
A 3310 (750 cfm ) Holley on an 8 and you can't use a 4 bbl??? Pester the hell out of the tech committee until they allow you to run an out of the box 450 or 600 Holley with single pump an vac secondaries.
Run a coil in cap HEI with all the aftermarket goodies inside that are offered for the 8 cyl unit - it all fits and works. A lightweight flywheel and clutch combo will help it spin up a little quicker and drop off quicker as you back off for the corners.

With the right cam along with the rest of the combo I would gear the car for around 4500 at the end of the chutes as short and non existent as they might be. This would be within the capability of the non ported head.

One thing in your favor over the SBC is your engine is almost 100 lbs lighter. The down side of that is its length puts more of it over the front wheels. Chassis set up will be critical.

Overall you have an intersting concept Bubba and when you start killing off the V8 boys be prepared for all sorts of protests and accusations. I hope the track doesn't have a claimer rule.


Go get 'em Bubba!!!!

Mike

what size valves came in a 292 head?

same size valves as the 194-250

and that would be