Inliners International Forums General Discussion Body & Paint Lacquer Primer VS. Enamel Primer

I was told to only use lacquer based primer as it can withstand higher temps and dries faster... As i am have sanded and primed about half of my '64 Longbed fleetside you might understand how i am a little worried to have read in a chevy restoring book that if lacquer based primers are used and it is exposed to high moisture climates your efforts will soon be ruined but brand new rust...Recently i have noticed rust keeps popping up...it looks more like surface rust than coming from underneath...Please i need help....What are the major pros and cons of using either? Also since I have primed so much and it turns out that lacquer is a bad choice can i reprime everything with enamel or do i have to sand and reprime? Thanks

If you want you can use a Epoxy Primer which is pretty much used for all your Paints now adays. It is also a High build primer which will fill most scratch Up to 80 grit. Thats all i use anymore. Cuts sanding time down and is much tougher then the older primers. Just my2cents. but hope it helps }[oooooo]

I have to agree with Larry.
I just finished a whole lot of sanding and priming on my car and I used the epoxy primer. It covers the small sanding marks but I was worried and sanded-primed-sanded 4 times and ended up with 400 wet on the last sand. That provided a very nice base for the acrylic enamel I spray on as paint. It dries fast (I let it sit over night)and if put 3 medium coats on, you can color sand the final finish and it comes out very nice.

If you go through all of the trouble of sanding, don't rush it. In the long run you'll be much happier with the results.

RapRap
1940 ChoppedChevyCoupe

im kind of confused as it seems like i am getting good info but it isnt quite what im lookign for...I have been using a lacquer based primer due to it suposivly dries faster and can withstand a hotter temperature...I then read this book last night in which it said that a lacquer based primer in moist climates will end up just back where you started with rust...I dont mind using either primers...I just need to know what the difference is between them...What would be the reasons to use an enamel based or lacquer based primer? I am starting to see rust showing up on the primer...Is it because lacquer based cant handle moisture? thanks

I think the main reason Your seeing Rust so soon Is it was Never realy Gone to start with. If you dont Use some kind Of metal Prep Once you hit bare metal You'll Never stop The rust from returning NO Matter What Primers You USE in the first place. I have had cars Sit in Lacquer primer for yrs and never seen that happen. but yes Lacquer is more prone to show rust be for anyother primers that I know of. Because It does Not seal as well. The lacquer primer doesn't have as much sealing propertys as enamel Or the Epoxy primers Or a Sealer primer. If you want to stay with the Lacquer Primer Use a sealer as well.
Also a note If your down to bare metal Use some type of Metal Prep that has a zinc phosphate to it This Helps keep the rust from comming Back even if it doesn't have any primer on it for a while. It also Helps In welding. Hope this helps answer your question a little better. }[oooooo]

i do use a metal prep...it turns almost like a blackish purple color after spraying a few coats.....The rust should have been completely gone a i did sand it down to bare metal...How should i go about getting rid of this spot rust...Can I spray enamel primer over the lacquer? What are the pros and cons of lacquer and enamel?

If you have spot rust you have to go back and sand or grind down to bare metal in that area and reprime. Jason, Have thought of using a high speed grinder with a twisted wire brush attached.
These really cut quickly and will definitely remove the pitted rust.

Gentlemen;

Primer in general in the Paint & Body industry is used to fill imperfections in old paint, fresh body work and to cover bare metal spots where rock/stone pits have been removed through the sanding process.

Lacquer is the most popular as it dries faster (a few minutes)to the touch. But still takes a few hours to dry before it can be sanded prior to painting (70 degree dry weather).

Enamel is used as a 'sealer' which puts a block between the old or "prepaired" paint prior to application of the new (base coat)etc.

Epoxy is much harder after drying and can be left on quite a while after, before sanding, prior to the painting process.

None of these products (all good) are designed for, or to be used as; a "temporary paint job". They have specific uses as I have explained.

PLEASE get professional advice (a free estimate) from some one in the business before you attempt anything like this!!! It will save you a bundle of money and a whole lot of grief in the long run. BELIEVE IT.

A vehicle with an old paint job & a couple of 'dings'is far easyer to 'freshen up' than trying to fix a "do it yourself mess" and most shops will not even try.

Good luck to all, John M.....

Gentlemen,
If you have interest in learning lots of good stuff about primers and sealers, go to that section in the following website. It is a forum just like this one where you can ask your questions and get real answers from professional people. I have used info from this forum often and never got a bum steer:
Thanks,
Oldabe

Go to hotrodders.com and join their forum. They have a body and exterior forum. There are some great guys on there that will be more then happy to help you out. They have never steered me wrong. Personally I would do the epoxy primer first then 2k primer then epoxy prime again. years ago we used vinal wash then lacquer prime or enamal prime. Gotta seal that bare steel. Good luck.

NEVER use anything laquer primer or laquer based putty. It is ****. I have been painting cars a long time and teh days of 'hand rubbed laquer' are over.These days this stuff is the cheapest stuff you can get and will cuase you problems before you now it. If there is any sort of rust or brown discoloration you must treat it first no matter what you use. You can get a gallon of Ospho at your Ace hardware for 15 bucks it goes along way. if you ahve bare metal to primer over, alway suse an epoxy primer. There are different types of epoxy as well from sealers to high build to help hide scratches etc. Get a paint and body book, from the last 5 years and you can learn alot.

Each has It's place in the work place.

If you not going to paint it 'right away' the epoxy primer will keep is 'sealed' till your ready in a mild climate. Then it depends on what materials your going to paint with; as to how you proceed.

Rarely is anything painted with lacquer anymore as stated and ALL the Mfg. materials are different.

This is why you need professional advice from your area. What works for someone in California may not in the 'mid west', 'east coast' or another country.

Websites and 'how to' books are fine (information sources) for students. However; It's realy easy to do more damage than good and it takes years to learn this trade because of all the variables involved.

If your not friends with a Body Shop, make some. Go to the local (auto) paint store & see who needs helpers.

You'll be surprised how much credit you can earn for just sweeping up & cleaning.

Good luck.

Hi, if you for some reason you don't want to go with the 2k epoxy or urethane primers. I have a recipe, take Rustoleum, or XO Rust primer reduce with auto enamel reducer anywhere from 15 to 25 %. Use either slow, medium or fast reducer, depending on air temp, and humidity. Sand, prep, acid wash, wipe down good with thinner, and shoot on 2 to 3 coats of this recipe, wet on wet. Let cure for 2 to 3 weeks, it is a slow cure compared to Lacquer, or any urenthane, or epoxy.
After the curing time, you can either do your body work on top of this,scuff with 80 grit first, use fillers, glaze, primer surfacer, high build primers etc. I have used evrything from body filler, kitty hair fillers, urethane primer, epoxy primer, lacquer based primer, and enamel paints, all without any ill effects.
The primer is about what $8.00 per quart or $25 per gallon. If a good quality primer/surfacer is used over this primer, then a paint system, either single stage enamels, BC/CC or Ik Urethane paints. Just a thought, if your on a bit of a budget, or for whatever reason want to go with enamels......47 man

47 CHRYSLER COUPE CRUISIN COMIN TO NEIGHBOURHOOD LIKE YOURS!!!!

Or you could just roll on rustoleum, wet sand,, buff and polish

Yes you could do that and I have done so before. But I wouldn't necessarily put automotive finishes on top of Rustoleum paints,I would suggest an automotive primer/surfacer to be used after the initial priming with say Rustoleum, it is used as a first primer with good corrosion resistance, it seals not bad either, much better than lacquer primer.....47 man

Well; I must agree with Rev OD, "color sand" & polish is best for you.

Happy trails.

It sounds like you are getting rust from the base metal.
I have the same problem, but I used a zinc chromate? aircraft rust(color) primer.
I would think you need to strip it back down & use a two part epoxy primer that keeps moisture out.
Don't know the brands off hand.

MBHD

PAINT 101:
Lacquer dries by evaporation
Enamel cures by a catalyst or combining with air. (this is why a skin forms inside the can even when its closed, and it can not be remixed with the other paint)
The best way to remember is to think of an egg if you dry it out, you can add water and you have an egg again. If you boil it in water, cut it up add water you have a mess, it changes state for the lack of a better word.

To Keep It Simple
There are primers and primer surfacer, primers are for adhesion to metal, fiberglass or another substrate. Primer surfacer adheres but also fills imperfections, the part that fills is basically talc like talcum powder which absorbs moisture. This is why you can not use any primer that contains talc, to seal water from metal.

I don't know of a lacquer primer/surfacer that does not have talc in it.It also was originaly made only for spot repair for quick repairs and had been abused because its quick dry time.

Enamel primer is the only thing to use for any type of body work and with the catalyst (2/PART) it is faster and better than lacquer. BUT if you want to try and seal the metal from oxiation (rust) it also can not have any talc in it.

Epoxy and Vinyl Wash are the only 2 I can think of that have very little talc in them. The paint co. call these shop primers since they sill don't want them in outside exposure, but they seem to work good for limited exposure (rat rods)

REMEMBER SAFETY FIRST !!!!

WEAR AN APPROVED RESPIRATOR (PAINT TYPE ONLY)
ESPECIALLY WITH ANY 2/PART PRODUCT

T-6 brings up a VERY important point!!

Many of these paint products are TOXIC (they cause cancer) and should ONLY be used by professionals, in the business.

A "particle mask" (that white one) gives NO protection from these chemicals, only dust etc.

Get some estimates, pay someone that knows and have it done right W/O getting sick.

Happy trails.