Inliners International Forums General Discussion Engines 261 leave it stock?

I have torn down a 261 I bought for my '53 chevy 210. It's at the machine shop for a magna flux test and tomarrow I should hopefully get good news. I now need to decide how to build this motor back. I want to do these for sure: Will add spin on oil filter, headers, dual exhaust, water heated intake with four barrel car. The tranny will be a T-5, The rear end will be high, but I haven't made a choice yet. I want to be able to cruise highway speeds and have the power to occasional pull a small trailer (old style camper). I am thinking of a 3/4 cam for a good sound, but don't expect any gains in performance. Gas mileage is important as this will be a driver. Has anyone heared of or had experience with internal engine coatings? I found this company at a GoodGuys show- www.kccoating.com and wonder if it will help my motor by reducing friction. Any other suggestions?

Where is my spell check button when I need it? but you get the drift. Other than what was posted as being added/changed should I leave the motor stock for what I'm going to be using it for?

I would think about the Cadillac 261 build. I think it is in the tech section.

trident
I am in the process of building a 261 for my 53 BelAir. Only because the devil made me do it, I bored it 60 over, had Howard Cam regrind the cam as wild as they could go and still be able to drive it on the street. The head is a worked over 848. Still trying to deside if I want to use a four barrel or two two barrels carbs. Going to use a GM HEI distributor. I have a T-5 trans with a Nova rear end. This is a daily driver. Again if it had been up to me I would have left it stock, but you know how the devil is. The main thing is have fun!

sounds cool! The devil can be pretty tempting! I also have a 292 in my '66 chevy C-10 that was almost pulled to put into the car, but then I would have to push the truck everywhere I go!

Got the block magna fluxed today. Good news! no cracks, no holes. It's been rebuilt before and needs it again. Going to bore 40 over, 20 over for the rod bearings and mains. Going to use a 3/4 cam. Don't know what to do other than stock on the head. Any reason given this information to do any upgrades to the head?

The 'Cadilac Six' would be a good choice. The extra stroke would add "low end" for that heavy 53.

Sissel's in West Covina does a good job, on those heads.

Good luck.

Novaconv has sent me the tech article on the Cadillac 261. It does not describe the what needs to be done to the head though other than larger inlet valves. I think this would be a build I can afford, but how much will I sacrifice in gas mileage? Price of gas is a big consideration for this daily driver.

Sissil's for the head, "foot off gas" to save money.

ok, doing a search for Sissil's

There was a big "snake oil" test of coatings and oil additives in the leading german vintage car magacin a while ago.

The did a test with several identical rebuild vintage (Ford - there goes the 4 letter word ) engines on teststands and simulated 65 000 miles of normal driving, cold starting and any kind of abuse you can think of.

The coatings performed pretty good for a while, but they wear down after max. 20 000 miles.

There where only two products that showed significant milage/performance plus and protection against wear.

the winner was Mathy

Here in southern Germany we used this stuff since years. It is a well known "liqid speed equipment" for performance engines and hevay duty stuff.

It also has an intresting history:

It was invented by Otto Mathé, the celebrated sports hero in Austria and Southern Germany, he was a living legend, being one of the most successful racers before and after the war.

In 1934, during a dirt-track race, Otto Mathé crashed his motor cycle, leaving his right arm lame for the rest of his life. But a fellow like Otto Mathé, called the "Tyrolian Daredevil" could not easily be stopped from racing. First on a sidecar outfit, altered to his demands, later on a great number of sports and racing cars. Wherever Otto Mathé was at the start line in one of his cars like CISITALIA, FIAT Ballila, Lancia Aprilia, Porsche 356 or even in one of his home-made cars (one of them he used to call the "Tin Can"), in most cases the winner was Otto Mathé. In 1952 he took victory in 20 (!) road races. In 1953 he was third on the famous NÜRBURGRING race course behind Pininfarina and Juan Manuel Fangio. It was only the second Grand Prix Mathé competed in.

His numereous performances (and wins of course) at speedway events and ice races have become legends. Especially so, when he raced on the ice surface of the Zeller See (Austria). The steel spikes of appr. 10 mm length his racer (called "Rags Afly") was equipped with gave a most spectacular sight when he went round corners!

He was also an graduated engineer and took special interest in dismantling engines, making improvements, putting them together again and making experiments. Just before he died in 1995, he worked on methods to considerably reduce fuel consumption. He was convinced that the lubricating abilities of motor oils were overestimated for many years, so he developed a formula for oil additives which was unique in his time and still is. Even in the early sixties Mathé was able to race his Porsche 356 (1500 cc) for more than 100 000 km without oil change, using his own additives. Of course regular change of the oil filter and replenishment of the oil consumed was executed.

Oils on sale consist of short molecule chains. MATHY will connect the oil molecules to nearly endless chains, thus multiplying their tensile strength. The result is a lubricating film that is close to indestructible and with the greatest reliability adheres to metal engine parts.


Frank

Frank, Following your link to Mathy provided lots of info on that product. At first I thought the engine SAE 0-50 numbers seemed too high, but their explanation of using 10% Mathy/L of oil explains the high SAE number. I'm not up on the ERUO to US dollar conversion,but I would think at least for you it's cost effective. What are your personal opinions and how long have you used Mathy?
Oops.Just realized this topic took a big turn from the original post.Sorry about that.

I'm intrested to - Go ahead Frank. My dad who has been around motors most of his life still swears that a can of STP is as good as it gets, but I would add that he has not tried or seen the results using any of the "new" stuff. Got to add though he has never given me bad advice (well except for that Fram filter thing- can't convince him how they went downhill)

As for the head, bowl porting, have it surfaced, the larger intakes from the 50-52 powerglide 235's can be used, but you may get only about 5hp from that at higher rpms, so I wouldn't bother unless you need to buy all new valves anyway. If going with the Howard 298H cam ("3/4"), then make sure you're running some heavier valve springs as well.

@Drew & trident:

We are using this stuff down here in the south for a loooong time because we are close to the austrian border where Otto Mathe had his shop.

My grandpa who run a "EES Garage" (part of AAFES where the GIs used to get parts and maintainence for ther private vehicles) since the early 60es already used this additive and swears by it till today. All our family vehicles are treaded with Mathy.

The main benefit is that friction is reduced to almost nill. So on cold starts - where most engine wear is - it does a good job because it protects the rings and cylinder walls. That also means never use it on a rebuild engine, it will never runn in the rings.

You can do a virtual friction "Test" on the website here: TEST
or you can watch the film (10 mb!)
Quicktime Film

I saw the test in real live and worked the handle by my selfe. I can tell you it works.


I have a 94 Pontiac Transport that usualy takes the expensive synthetic oil. I use the cheap standart mineral oil and treat it with 10% Mathy.
2 Years ago we went to Italy. After half of the way at a routine check while filling up the gas, I found out that I was driving with almost no oil (nothing to see at the dipstick - oil lamp or sensor probably shot). No problem with the engine sice than. Still running great.

We opened the engine of my moms Maty treated 1991 Opel for a new head gasket last jear. Looks like new, no carbon or whatever buildup, everything in specs.
Motor has run 110 000 miles!

In the 41 Chevy I use a special single grade (sae 30) MATHY because of the single grade oil I have in the 235.
They have it on a extra website Mathy Classic

The additive is rather expensive (around $52 1 liter and you need 10% of your oil volume) so you better make sure your engine don`t leak or burns to much oil.

From my personal and family experience I got (all our cars have more than 180 000 miles on the odometer bevore thy go to the boneyard) I think it is worth any penny and swear by it. But when it comes to oil additives it is always an almost religos discussion.

...and no I don`t get or make money for this.

Frank