Inliners International Forums General Discussion Hi Performance Cloyes Gearsets

In my research I'm seeing that Cloyes has already discontinued the 8-1016 and 8-1018 at least on their website. I know there are plenty still around. Looks like the only one they still make is the 2528S. http://cloyes.mycarparts.net/products/Cloyes-2528S?product_application_id=13394200090

The discontinued 8-1016 and 8-1018 are under a list of "Discontinued HP Items with no suggested alternate". I'm leaning toward the 8-1016 just because I figured it wouldn't whine as much plus it is adjustable. We had one in there from Clifford but lost it when we did another rebuild. Anyone have any recommendations? I'm concerned the 8-1018 will be too loud.

2516S will get you a timing set for 216, 235 and the Jimmy's from Autozone.

This is for a 292.

Does anyone have any recommendations on another gear set BESIDES Cloyes that would be of good quality?

Atozone # 2516S = https://www.autozone.com/internal-engine...608_95254_12256 Look under vehicle fitment.

216-292 Chevy sixes, 228-302 Gmc sixes, 153-181 Chevy,Mercruiser, OMC, Volvo marine fours,151 Iron Dukes are the same. Comp Cams, Summit, Jegs, Melling......... Stay away from the fiber cam gear.

Hmm, I didn't realize there were so many applications that would share the same gear set. Thanks.

I just always thought Cloyes was the best quality for these and now they're discontinued. It's kind of disheartening.

There are probably only a couple if manufactures that make them all. About 90% of the cam bearings used in the US are made by Dura Bond in Carson City, Nevada no matter what the box you get says.

Hold on there. The gear sets for the 216, 235 and 261 do not interchange with the sets for the 194, 230, 250 and 292. The crank gear might be the same but the cam gear is different. So are the thrust plates.

That makes sense because the one linked above says it didn't fit the 292. The number for it is 2528 like I said in my first post. Anyway, thanks for the input gentlemen. Seems like in reading Santucci's book he mentions only use Cloyes but I just wasn't sure what else was available and as good of quality.

Several of the cam manufacturers now offer competition gear sets for these engines. Some of them are adjustable.

I found some with alternate key positions, but none adjustable.
Got a link?
Thanks.

Show me the difference. If there is any it's with the older engines and it's probably a timing mark thing or sets with fiber cam gears. All of the newer series are the same gears sixes or fours.

The alternate keyways and using offset keys are the means of adjustment I was referring to. Didn't mean to mislead.

No offense, thanks.
Too bad, considering how much trouble it is to change the key there might be a market.

I am not sure what the 292 set number is, but the set will include a 2526 aluminum cam gear, and a 2527 steel crank gear. The 235/261 set that is the 2516S set is comprised of a 2514 aluminum cam gear and a 2501 steel crank gear.

The thrust plates for the 230-292 are .139 thick, for the 235/261 they are .187 thick.

I forget of the top of my head right now, but I think I have this right, you can tell the difference in cam gears by putting a straight edge flat across the gear. The hub on the 235/261 cam gear will be the same height as the outer edge of the gear, for the later cam gear, the hub is raised.

This is interesting. I can not remember where I got the information I posted earlier. I've got some old parts books I need to go through. I also have some old engines and gears setting around.

There may be some cross over for the 250 motor. The cam gear 2526 and the crank gear as either a 2501, the same crank gear as the 235/261, or 2527, the same as a 292. These part numbers are from notes I kept on some of the motors I was building a number of years ago. I think I will see if I can dig out my old parts book and confirm.

All I could find was the part number for the entire gear SET.

I looked up 3 Sealed Power gears on line. I know this is not the complete answer but it does indicate a LOT of interchange. There were lots of interchange numbers from other companies. The engines listed were their listing but it about covers it. The years tell the story. Sorry, I did a table but it won't post and when I type it out it changes when I post.
Basically #221-2500 fiber cam gear 216,235,261,228-302n GMC 1937-1963.
#221-2526 Aluminum cam gear engines include 250, 292, 153,181 from 1963-1989.
#221-2537 steel crank gear All Chevys 151-250 1938-1993

This one screws up to but here it is anyway.

I can not post my table but here are 3 links that give a lot of information about each gear.
221-2500
221-2526
221-2537

Has anyone any ideas on how it may be possible to modify an existing gear set to be adjustable on the engine? This would mean separating the hub from the tooth row (inner and outer circles) to allow the gear mesh to remain in place while rotating either the crank or cam (probably the cam since it's larger).
I've sen cam drives for other engines which had plate over-laying the interface (separation line) which bolted to both parts, and the position was fixed with a dowel. This could be inserted in several positions, all of which were smaller increments than a single gear tooth (13.33°) to both correct errors and allow fine tuning with the cam in place.
I don't think there's enough market volume to develop it as a commercial product, but there might be enough interest to make 10 sets?

Wouldn't one tooth on the cam gear be 6.66 degrees on the cam? Or do you figure it from the crank side? It's pretty easy the set up and get close enough when building an engine but changes later can be a pain. Keeping an adjustable gear in place would be tough and the results of a failure could be expensive. It is fun the think about though. With our press on cam gears maybe something in the hub or some kind of wedge?

The first thing to do will be to make the timing cover easily removable.

Offset keys for the crank gear and making the gear removable would be the simplest solution.

The coolest solution would be to produce a two piece cam gear that consists of a press-on flange with a locating dowel and a separate gear that has a two or three bolt outer gear with bushings for the dowel to allow adjustments like on the racing gear sets for big and small block GM V8s.

A steel inner flange with studs or special flat head bolts with allen or torx sockets could work. This would allow a timing cover with an access plate to allow adjustments by possibly removing the water pump and the access plate. In certain circumstances you wouldn't even need to pull the water pump!!!

Interestingly enough, at one time cloyes use to make a neat three position timing set for the 235/261 motor. Let you set the cam up straight, 2 or 3 degrees advanced or retarded (I forget which now) Clifford carried them for years. I have a set on a 235 I built way back in 84 or so. Back in 2011 or 12 that same gearset was still on Clifford’s website and I ordered a set. What I got was a standard engintech set. I spoke to Larry, he took them back, and told me that cloyes was not making them any longer. I called cloyes and they confirmed they were not making the adjustable set any longer. My guess is that we would need a pretty good number of orders to make it worth their while to make a run of those gears again.

It's the same 13.33° for both (720° ÷ 54 teeth = 360 ÷ 27 teeth) because of the cam turning 1/2 speed with twice as many teeth. I'm sure this is a good compromise of maximum error vs. smaller teeth (weaker) but it makes corrections by skipping a tooth an "extreme only method".

Here's a Ford 2.3 liter L4 with a cam drive using a face plate using bolts in slots (Racer Walsh product) securing the hub to the pulley which are simply tightened when the cam is properly phased, works at 8,000 RPM, but having pin positions would make it easier to tweak by using the stock Chevy marks, then identify how much change you need by pin position (viz., -4°, 0°, +4°, etc.) since any large change could begin with the 13.33° skip tooth method. Each pin position would be relevant to a specific tooth on the cam gear, of course.

Thanks for bring that up Panic. I know there is a picture of a custom Jesel belt drive set up in the Santucci book. Of course Jesel doesn't make anything like that or at least they don't have it listed. But it was combined with what looked like a 2 piece cover but they left the outer exposed to see the cam gear.

Donohue - As I mentioned in my above post, Cloyes has already discontinued the 8-1016 and 8-1018 gear sets. It's a shame how many parts are slowly but surely being discontinued.

I looked at this recently and decided there is no easy way to modify the stock parts. The center web on the cam gear has a wave in it for rigidity. This means any modification such as cutting up two gears and fixing them back together with a plate won't do it because there isn't enough material left to work with. If the center web was flat then I think it would be fairly easy.

To retard my timing 4 degrees I cut a new keyway offset 178 (or 182 depending on how you look at it) degrees from the original and remarked the timing dot. Worked great but as pointed out the keyway itself is the easy part of the job compared to pulling the cam and shrinking fitting the gear.

panic:"It's the same 13.33° for both (720° ÷ 54 teeth = 360 ÷ 27 teeth) because of the cam turning 1/2 speed with twice as many teeth. I'm sure this is a good compromise of maximum error vs. smaller teeth (weaker) but it makes corrections by skipping a tooth an "extreme only method"."

Well duh, Two meshed gears with a 2 to 1 ratio. Dopy me!
The three slot sets still turn up on eBay from time to time as do the straight cut gear sets. It might be easier to make the crank gear adjustable with a flanged sleeve though it would be much harder to access.

Don't feel bad, I stared at the parts (Harley-Davidson flathead 4-cam set) for an hour before it dawned on me!

Here's one of the cam gears with a substantial center web (look at the thickness of the holes).


A steel disc (very short cylinder) with the OD to match the (cleaned up) web diameter, thickness just below the web depression (to sit flush), and ID to match the (cleaned up) hub OD can't be that difficult? You may have to cut up 2 gears to make the hub and tooth ring a slip fit (unless EDM can do that?).

I still wish one of these was available for these engines.
http://www.jesel.com/valvetrain/images/BeltDrive_Header.jpg

Then you would need a custom ground reverse rotating cam.

I know of several that have been made for the 250/292's and a couple of 4 cylinders. They are a thousand bucks. Plus the added cost of a custom cam as FTF has said. So probably zero demand except for the all out race engine build.

Oh well

The OHC Pontiac 6 cylinder guys are doing that with their cam gears and making an adjustable cam gear like the red one shown above.

Never mind

Anybody got experience with the Enginetech 2528S timing sets?? If the quality is good, this unit would lend itself better to machining a hub and flange and adapting the gear portion to it. The web portion is flat and it could be machined and drilled to attach to a flange.

To be honest, it would be much easier to just broach additional keyways in the crank gear of either a Cloyes or Enginetech gear set. Sealed Power also makes them as well. Several 8-1016 and 8-1018 adjustable gear sets are on eBay right now as we speak, so there is still some inventory out there. I broach keyways for crank snout drilling fixtures i've made before, and have everything to do it with. So I could just buy a bunch of those timing sets and resell them at a modest upcharge for providing the service if needed.

I would also exhaust all efforts to locate the adjustable Cloyes sets thru Rock Auto, NAPA, Advance and Auto Zone before giving up on those options entirely. They can search each of their respective databases nationwide to see if any are available in some of their warehouses or stores.

Is the straight cut gear set better or worse than the angle cut?

Straight cut will be louder. Don't know if that makes them better or worse. Most racers use the aluminum gear set which is not straight cut if that helps answer your question.