Inliners International Forums General Discussion Truck Talk Keroppi, my 1946 Chevy 3100

Well, the truck wouldn't start today after I got down to the yard. I will need to replace the entire fuel line now. I could get it to fire with some starter fluid but it wouldn't stay running, so something is plugged in the lines...I'm pretty sure the line between the tank and fuel pump.

Good thing is I have the parts already and should have put them on, but procrastinated and thought I had it fixed with the fuel pump being cleaned and refurbed...might be a good time to replace the fuel pump with one of the electric pumps I bought, but I think I'll try the mechanical fuel pump first as I have a hard line going from the pump to the carb.

Dang it....

Yeah, it sucks, but at least I know what the problem is and I think I have what I need to fix it.

Well, I thought I had what I needed, but the hard line doesn't fit the carb, either need to get an adapter fitting or a different line...

I am also not sure if I need hard line or not, the auto parts store told me that you can only run so much distance with a rubber line.

Anyone know if that is so on these older beasts?

I have a new rubber line going from the tank to the fuel pump, and put the old line going to the fuel pump on, but it doesn't seem to be getting gas to the bubble filter. I guess the fuel pump could really be bad...

It fires up with some starter in the carb, but doesn't continue running as there is no fuel being delivered...nothing now...

The hard-line from the pump to the carburetor is a double flared compression fitting. The inlet into the carburetor is pipe threads. One typically finds a brass fitting that copes between the two (it is the same on the pump side).

There is nothing wrong with using sections of rubber in a fuel circuit. They are great for adapting to inline fuel filters or even an inline electric fuel pump. But they are used as transitions - flexible sections, etc. The majority of the run from the tank to the fuel pump should be hard-lines that are firmly attached to the frame.

Based on your on-again off-again experiences (with the fuel system on this truck) my hunch is that you have contaminants in the bottom the fuel tank that are getting pulled into the line and plugging it. I would pull the tank and clean it thoroughly.

With the clean tank you can install a new line to the pump and know that the path between is clear. Given that the tank is in the bed - the line you need is not stock. One can buy copper-nickle alloy tube (cunifer). It is super easy to bend and flare.

Fabricate yourself a custom hard-line from the tank to the pump. I would include an inline filter close to the tank (but in a place that is easy to service).

Make sure you get the right rubber line. Some modern "fuel" line and modern fuel don't like each other.

See if Tom Lowe will post the picture of his gas tank cleaning method.

Guys, you haven't lost me, just been swamped with a bunch of stuff. Lost my main email server 2 nights ago, and I think I just got it rebuilt and working again...my wife's email on there also, so I was on the hook...and during all of it I forgot our Anniversary...but it's 33 years and she said 33 is not a great number anyway... During all of this I finally got a new job that I start next Monday...if all of that is not enough, I got a call from PG&E yesterday morning and could be getting close to having my power line dropped to my property where I'm building in Lake County.

Sooo...I agree with stock, and I was able to get down there and start looking at things. There seems to be some crud in the old hard line on the frame. But tell me something, does it NEED the hard line? I ran a rubber line from the tank to the fuel pump to try and avoid that as I didn't have another hard line. But it doesn't seem to pump. I removed the tube from the tank, it goes in through the top, and that all looks good, it's cut at an angle so should pickup fuel fine, even if there was crud in the bottom of the tank. But I'm not getting fuel to the bubble filter, and as such won't run. the hose is new, so I know it's clear. It's about 6'-8' from the tank to the fuel pump though...what I wasn't sure is if the pump can't pull through such a big hose, IOW if that prevents it from getting fuel to the pump. I don't know enough about fuel systems to know... I might be able to blow compressed air through the old hard line and see if I can get it clear...if that is where the blockage is.

I would like to do as beater says, and clean out the tank, not exactly sure how it comes out and/or if there's a drain on the bottom, I may have to just pull the tank and drain it out the top filler. I'm not clear on how the tank is held in the bed, but suspect from underneath. There are no floor boards where the tank is. Would be nice if I could get it on a lift somewhere, but that's not so easy without it running.

One option is to replace the fuel pump with an electric, but the pressure is the same so not sure that will change too much unless the pump is fubar.

I was down with it on Sunday, but wasn't having a very good day. Finally when it got dark I left...but wasted about 5 hours running back and forth to the parts store to get some fittings.

I don't know much about 46's but I would suggest removing the tank and cleaning it and all the lines properly. It's no fun and not sexy but you will avoid a lot of problems in the long run. Also gives you a chance to inspect the tank for weak spots. When it starts bouncing around all kinks of stuff breaks loose and destroys your filter and maybe your pump. I found a silver dollar size chunk of solder in mine from when they soldered it together

I agree, and will need to do that...it won't be happening until about a week, looks like it's gonna be raining solid for at least a week...

I'm in SoCal, it rained almost the entire drive except for about 10 minutes up around Salinas. Lots of traffic already for the holiday...I'm gonna try and sneak back home on Friday. I start a new job on Monday, and it's gonna be raining all week long. If it's cleared up by a week from Sat. I can try and revisit the gas tank. I agree, it needs to be taken out entirely.

But tell me something Michael, is the 5/16" flex hose too large for the pump to get enough suction? I think I should plan on putting back in a section of hard line to be safe. I don't know if replacing the pump with an electric pump would be wise or not. I hate to change too many thing at once, I could introduce other issues...What say ye?

5/16" is the stock fuel line size in the 40's era. I don't think that you have a pump issue - I think that it is more likely an obstruction.

I am a fan of electric full pumps - but not for constant use. I have an Airtex in-line pump bolted to the frame in front of the passenger side rear-wheel. When it is 'off' the stock mechanical pump can pull fuel through it. I have the pump wired to a switch under the dash. When the car has sat for a few days the carb-bowls tend to go dry. With a flip of a switch the fuel system is primed in a just a few seconds. No cranking-cranking-cranking to refill the bowls. Once the engine is running the mechanical pump does the job and compatible with the fuel pressures expected from a carburetor.

The electric pump also makes a fairly annoying sound that I wouldn't want to listen to when cruising. But it is great in terms of hearing when the carb bowls fill and the needles close into the seats. The sound of the pump changes noticeably. Car is ready to start. The other benefit was at initial build/installation time. The electric pump can be turned on and off while leaks are detected an addressed - long before the engine is fired.

You mentioned going to a dual fuel tank set-up. Perhaps you should clean both tanks and invest in the permanent plumbing for that . . .

The other noises my cars make usually drown out little sounds like electric fuel pumps and worn out brakes. I have to run an electric pump on my roadster now because I cut the fuel pump lobe off of the cam.

Hope everyone is having a great Thanksgiving, and got to spend some time with their loved ones! I'm at my Mom's with my wife and the kids drove down also...so it was a small but nice TG.


This is exactly why I used that size, the truck had 3/8" hose on it, and I'm not exactly sure what size the hard line was in the middle, but I believe that is where the blockage is.


I think this is two fold. I think there is blockage in the hard line between the tank and fuel pump, however I removed that factor and ran a new 5/16" Gates hose from the tank to the fuel pump. I don't believe the mechanical fuel pump is capable of pulling fuel through the line however, and am not a fuel delivery expert, but that is what I believe.

The reason is that another gent I had originally met over on Stovebolt, his name is Jon Goodman, and is the person using the same electric fuel pump(s) I bought and he claims that the electric fuel pumps are entirely different beasts than the mechanical counterparts. He is using the exact same type of fuel line that I installed, but the electric fuel pump is capable of pushing the fuel through the hose. The mechanical pump just must not be capable...but I could be wrong. This is his thought also.


That is interesting stock, and I would say tossing a monkey wrench into my logic above, but the fuel hose connects to a fitting on top of the fuel tank, I pulled it out of the tank. There's aprox. 3/8"-1/2" plastic tube that extends down, and it is cut at an angle, so if the tip was on the bottom of the tank it would still be able to suck fuel, unless there was about 1/2"-3/4", the length of the angle cut on the end of the tube. I can see the gas is above that, as the tube is wet a few inches up. However, I don't know for certain, I'm just guessing it can pull. The other guy has the exact same fuel line, using no hard line, only the same Gates 5/16" flex hose.


That is the plan, and I have been planning to replace all the lines at the end of the day, so I am faced with that now.


If I can get everything running reliably I would worry about the noise later if it is a problem. I don't know how much I will be able to hear it, but my plan was to put both pumps in the original battery tray under the floor. Worst case I could cover them with an enclosure and sound proof it as best I can.

I appreciate the comments, not trying to debate or dispute either of you, and more so welcome your comments. I'm just trying to get the beast running and understand this. If my theory is correct, it will be good data for people to know in the future when running their fuel lines, that 5/16" ID is too big for the mechanical fuel pump. I've never seen a hard line that size being used for a fuel line, so there might be a reason for that.

Sounds like you're dealing with plumbing that depends on siphon action. Not sure why it is plumbed that way. Are there no outlets in the bottom of the tank?

The stock fuel system is built around gravity feed. The tank outlet is higher then the fuel pump. The pumps only job is to lift fuel to the carb.

Your buddy is correct. Inline electric fuel pumps 'push' fuel. And they aren't good a dry starting a siphon. They expect gravity to deliver fuel - which they in turn push forward and up to the carb.

Ah, this reminds me of something I've seen online, where the fuel lines need to be primed before using. I am pretty sure that's the way this tank is setup, with siphon action, otherwise why wouldn't they have used the bottom outlet? I believe the answer is because there is no bottom outlet. I will look. I'm also pretty sure that priming the system is most likely needed as there would be a lot of air in the system. I've seen some guys suck on the fuel line until fuel is obtained and spit out what's in their mouth...doesn't sound too tasty to me...but maybe if I had some water at hand and rinse out my mouth well, it might be tolerable.


Exactly, I think this is my problem. $64k question is what is needed to prime the system and get fuel filled in the lines? I'll need to read...of course the other option is just convert to the electric fuel pump and let it push the fuel to the carb.

On a bad note...Will it ever quit raining?

On a good note, I finished my first week on my new job and it's good to be back working...hoping I can get some work done on the fuel lines next weekend if it will quit raining.

Good for you. Somebody has to work.

Well, I think *somebody* was working over the past couple years, but it wasn't me, I have only worked about 2-1/2 months in the past 2 years. I really took a whoopin' on my savings and equity in my house in order to get the foundation in on my lake project where I'm building a home for Keroppi I'm hoping to get back on my feet soon so I can get some more parts for her.

I am getting Keroppi a small pressie for the holidays...a NOS and rebuilt Carter 3211 carb. That's the carb that was made for the high compression 235. There's a guy over on Stovebolt that has a few NOS 3211s, Jon Goodman, the same guy that gave me the lead on the low pressure electric fuel pump. He has a 235 in his pickup with a 3211 carb and one of the Autobest electric fuel pumps. To be honest, the Carter 964S that is in it would most likely be fine, but the 3211 is auto choke and I think that will be better all around.

I'm trying to take next year off to work on my truck. I have only been home 9 months out of the last 2 years. My goal is to get the chassis and drive train done in time to shake it out before drag week next year. We will see how that works out. I'm heading to PRI in indy tomorrow and plan on spending $15K. If I can stay in that budget I will be ok. Hopefully I will make some good connections.

While I didn't invest in my pickup like that, it was a stretch to buy it...at the time I was working for 2 months, 50 hours week and getting time and a half on those extra 10 hours a week. Unfortunately I didn't work for a year after that, so it was a bit tough to justify to my wife...luckily she's one of the most understanding woman I've ever met. She's pretty happy I'm back to work. I'm pretty close to getting the electrical service at my lake project, but have a couple things I need to do at my current house...to appease my wife and balance things out. I have a fair amount of things to do to the pickup, but won't be investing as much into her as you are, but who know, maybe that will change over time. My first priority is getting my log home in place on the foundation, as that is where the pickup will ultimately live. And hopefully it will be running reliably at that point.

What type of parts are you buying, seems you had most of the stuff you needed?

The rest of my dry sump oil system, My entire distributorless ignition and crank trigger, blower intake for my 12 port crossflow head, Valve train, fire suppression system, cable drive fuel pump and headers. I had most of the people picked out and just met with them face to face. I ran into Mike Finnigan just by chance and we talked for about an hour about my build and other stuff. He just a regular guy. I went to seminars on suspension, wiring and shocks.

Your truck sounds like a dream truck, at least for me. I'm anxious to see you getting it on the road, which I'm sure you are also.

One thing I'm thinking I may try today on my truck is to pull the hose off the tank, fill it with gas to the top of the hose and reconnect it. Maybe that will give it enough gas to get it going and continue, the bubble filter should get any air out that is left in, but that should give it enough to be able to pump...

It is clear but I'm pretty sure the yard is muddy, it's been raining for about 2-3 weeks pretty much constant here on the west coast...but I'm gonna go down as the weekend is all I have to get down there these days now that I started to work again, and that's a good thing, IMO.

Went to the yard yesterday, was clear when I left, stopped by the store to get a turkey baster. I figure that would allow me to get fuel into the line, and it turned out to be easier than I suspected as I can pull the tube out of the tank and just held it upside down and squeezed fuel into it until it was filled. I then quickly turned it over and jammed it into the tank.

Gave it a spritz of starter fluid to get it going and it fired up and stayed running, I could press the gas, get more fuel, etc...



Then I got in the truck to make sure all was good and it would start, stop, rinse and repeat...I'm gonna declare this a victory and the fuel delivery problem is fixed after the fuel pump rebuild. I have not done anything with the electric fuel pump yet, but will revisit that when I get the NOS carb in a week or so...



This last video shows a problem I have noticed previously, when the starter pedal is engaged, it's angled slightly and doesn't engage the flywheel properly unless you stomp fairly hard. I may need to adjust that, possibly with a BFH...

You might want to try starter shims first. Just a thought.

I will try to diagnose the problem first. Seems to me that when the starter pedal is pushed it engages the starter drive gear to the flywheel. I have looked at that once and it seems the pedal pushes slightly skewed, in the video I mention I need to stomp it hard (so that it engages the drive gear properly).

Where do the starter shims go, do they go on the pedal mechanism? When the starter is out it's easy to see how it activates the drive gear. Do the shims go on the drive gear rod? Seems the same effect could be done at the flipper mechanism that the pedal attaches to. It was all muddy at the yard, of course, so didn't spend too much time there after I got it going reliably.

I wasn't aware of any shims.

A while back we were talking about cleaning your gas tanks. Here is how 12Bolt Tom does it. Probably 1/2 gal of diesel and a scoop full of the gravel laying there would clean it right up. Remember to take the gauge sender unit out first. (just testing the picture thing)

No way! Can we upload pics to Inliners now?

How do you do it? Or is it only for special guys like you?

It is on the list of things to do for me to get the tank cleaned, that goes for both the tank in the bed and the original tank under the seat.

Tomorrow I'm going down to try and get the 'ol '46 to the DMV, the DMV that's by my yard is open on Saturday. Not very many DMVs are open, but the Santa Teresa DMV is...I'm hoping she'll fire up after sitting for a week and make it over there. I know the brakes still need some adjusting, but I think they are working...

Wish me luck! This will be the maiden drive! I don't have a registration and the temp is long expired...but taking all my paperwork and license plate with me to the DMV...just in case I get pulled over on the way over there...I think it's about 6 or 7 miles from my yard where my pickup is. I've been pretty busy with my new job, and will have to take off 2 days next week for Xmas and 2 days the week after for New Years, so hoping I can get this taken care of tomorrow, it would be a great Xmas pressie for ME! Although I don't really believe in Xmas, but we do kinda sorta partake in it...but I believe in Santa Claus as much as I do in the Easter Bunny, or the Tooth Fairy...

That said, tell more on posting pics beater!

The picture posting is reserved for Inliners International members so I re- insisted after a few years off. The folks in charge now are making attempts to fix some things that had been ignored for quite a while. So yes, members can post pictures. Stock49 has to put you on the list to post to a gallery hosted on our site. He has posted a "how to" here. The process is rather cumbersome compared to some other sites but it is not necessary to have your photos hosted in one of the sites that charge you to do that. It is not as easy as the HAMB but we don't have their resources. The picture above was my first, a test. I'm sure with practice it will be easier and I'm glad that I can at least get some pictures on here. The photo forum is at the bottom of the forum list on the home BB page.

So what do you think of the gas tank cleaner set up? Tom either posted that or sent it to me a few years ago. It made me laugh out loud but it is a great use of equipment you have to do what has to be done.

I belong to Inliner International, I'll contact stock to put me on the chosen members list.

I was able to get down to the DMV, just got home...I got the VIN verified, paid my reg fees, but am waiting for Sacotomatoes to verify my plate is good to go...and they will send me my tags I'm told...there was some question on the clarity of the plate, but I told her I could refinish it and make it clear if that's what they want. I like it as-is.

Truck definitely needs some TLC, and I need to readjust the brakes, they feel too tight and need bleeding.

Congratulations! Any win with the DMV is cause to celebrate I don't care what state you are in. A long time friend the wife of a long time friend was an office manager at the Carson City DMV and two former students worked there. They all ran and hid when they would see me come in with a fist full of parers. They cut me no slack at all. I actually started driving out to the DMV in Fallon where I was not known. Nice picture!

Ain't that the truth!

I think I might only need to pay $45/year for reg fees, but not sure yet until I get my tags back. I only had to pay $45 today for the regs this year, however my initial pay was about $1,000 including taxes. They had in the system for me that I owe $540 because it was never finalized since last year, and Oct. was when the regs ran out...so they had a bunch of charges...strange thing is I was paid in full...but they changed that and took that off for me. It was the DMV that told me I wouldn't be fined when I took the truck on my trailer to get the VIN verified, so at least they took it off.


I think I mentioned to you before, I drove up to Fallon to look at a '46 with a 327 in it, but it needed a LOT of work. That was a lot of gas and time to get up there, 6 hours one way, but sometimes we have to do what we have to do to find a truck.

Looking at the pic you posted, it looks like he's lifted the tractor axle up and attached the tank to the wheel and just let the tractor run for a while...kind of like a rock polisher but using gravel inside the tank. I've heard you can just put dish soap and water inside and rinse it around, but it wouldn't have the same effect like gravel.

I have access to some gravel, but not sure how I would spin it. I have a forklift, but nothing like a tractor with big wheels other than the forklift itself. I need to ponder.

FWIW, it took a bit to get the truck started, but once it was fired up which it as able to do after a couple tries, it ran pretty well. I drove it all the way to the DMV, stopped in the drive through, it fired right up, and drove it over and parked in the lot, about 2 hours later after I finally got out of there, it fired right up again, and I drove it to the gas station, filled the tank up (it was only about 3 gallons shy of a full tank), and it fired right up and I drove it back to the yard. I put a bottle of lead substitute in the tank before I topped it off.

Still has a problem popping out of gear, but much of that could have to do with driving on a rough road. Monterey Hwy is pretty rough, that's where my yard is in Morgan Hill.

Not sure if Tom used gravel. That was my idea. It sounds like your truck is liking being started more often. Sometimes jumping out of gear can be caused by worn gears. It could also be old dirty trans oil that won't let it go fully into gear, dirty sticky slider not working freely. Or bent shifter forks that don't let it shift completely, not getting the full throw.

Well, that's a good idea, IMO.


It was a long road figuring out the hard start, converting to 12v, rebuilding the fuel pump and adding new fuel lines...


I'll be honest, I'd really like to get a T5 in it rather than messing around with what I have. However, that means a new rear end most likely.

My '53 has a T5 and a '68 GMC 4x4 Dana 44 limited slip with 3.54 gears. It will cruse 70-75 all day long and go faster than I want to drive it. The hardest part of swapping the rear end was getting the E-brke to work. I still need to redo that part. It's a matter of cutting and splicing some cables. Make sure you get a T5 with the Chevy bolt pattern and an S10 shifter/tail piece. I got an S10 with another bolt pattern. I had to make an adapter and carve on the tranny case some. I did however get one with a low first gear that comes in handy for hauling and climbing the steep hills on my road. It is sort of too low for regular use and second is barely too high though I do sometimes take off in 2nd. With a 4.11 or 3.70 rear end it would be perfect and still cruse around 70 mph.

I've been keeping an eye open for a T5, but it's not one of the things I *NEED*, of course that never stopped me from getting something I wanted...

I don't want to spend too much right now, and currently committed to a 3211 NOS carb that has been rebuilt. I do want to get some 3rd row seats from an Escalade/Yukon/Tahoe/Suburban, but just haven't seen the right set at the right price yet. Ideally a set of black leather seats that are split in the middle would be my choice, but a 60/40 set would also be an option. I exchanged some mail with a guy that has a 1 piece 3rd row seat that is grey, not the best condition but no tears or stains. Those 3rd row seats are 48" wide.

While I really would like the T5, I think it probably makes more sense to replace the ring/pinion first as I have a 3.55 set that will go in my rear end, and I do have a 4.11 rear end at this time. I have the stock 3 speed tranny. My thought is if I do pull the tranny and see either worn gears or shifter fork, or similar, but first I should probably change the trans fluid and see if that helps at all. As I said, the road is pretty rough, but I know that shouldn't effect the trans too much...that glove box door keeps popping open when driving on the rough section, will need to look at that also.

And the worst part is that my yard is all dirt and now that the rainy season is here it will be a mess for several months. I really need to get the pickup home so I can work on it where my tools and driveway are. I looked at renting a bay with a hoist, but they want $80/hr for that...all of the sudden crawling under minimal space under truck got a lot more attractive! LOL

beater,

I've seen a number of Dana rear ends, they were common on Jeeps, and I have also read that you can replace the T5 spline with a Jeep spline to fit a Chevy 235.

How can you tell what type of rear axle would work best? I should probably be asking this in drivelines...

Some Dana/Spicer 44s in GMC 4X4 pickups were limited slip. That is what I found, a '68. I cut the spring perches off and rewelded them where I needed them. I had a drive shaft that worked. I don't know what it is out of, just luck. Or as my wife says," If you have enough crap piled in the yard some of it is bound to fit something." There are lots of versions of 44s. I'm pulling the gears and limited slip carrier out of one we ran in my son's Studebaker. It has the keyed axles and hubs the Studes used. The carrier is from a GMC the gears are Studebaker , 4.27. The ones in Postal Jeeps are very narrow. There are at least two sizes of carrier and probably different splines. Dana 44 is a group with lots of interchangeable parts not just one size fits all. Some of the early open drive line Chevy pickup rearends will probably take your new gear set and bolt right into your truck.
The T5s also have a lot of interchange, as do many transmissions. I've rebuilt a couple but don't know a lot about them. There is a length of input shaft thing that can be fixed with a spacer or sometimes cutting 3/8" (I think) off of the shaft. The split count is a matter if finding the right clutch plate or maybe a different input shaft. Can of worms.

Words of wisdom! My wife usually just rolls her eyes...LOL But she's a good sport after 33 years of me dragging old iron home...a guy at work had a fitting t-shirt on, it said, "Only one more car, I promise...". My bigger interest is old vintage machines...


That's an understatement.


Indeed a lot of worms given the rear end and the trans. Knowing I will need to replace the entire ball of wax, I haven't been in a rush...OTOH, I kind of feel if I really want this pickup to run well on the highway, that may need to be done. Not a priority, but a desire. Finding the specs on this stuff is horrendous. Finding the correct width axle, the proper length drive shaft, etc...my '46 might be narrower than your AD Series, I'm pretty sure that might be true.

Road Trip!

I love FREE, especially when it's something I have wanted. Color is not ideal, beige, but price is right.

The owner took this 3rd row seat out of his Yukon and it was in his garage when he wrecked it. When the tow service hauled it away he forgot to put this in the vehicle.

Even has the seat belts! (I currently don't have any seat belts in my '46). Looks in new condition.

I need to drive about 70 miles to get it.

The good news is that the 'wrong' color is light. I have read several threads over the years about guys changing the color of leather upholstery. Here's one from the H.A.M.B. Seems a product called SEM is the to one look into . . . apparently it's a spray on.

That doesn't look too difficult, although I thought it was cloth as the 2nd pic is of the under/back of the seat which is cloth. But it doesn't look bad at all, and beige does go with the green, so would leave me open to doing the inside of the interior in a beige/cream or green...the beige might even go with the black. I'm gonna put it in first before I dye it.

I was just looking over the SEM site and they have a lot of products, but not really clear which one is for dying leather. I also looked around the Fiebings site, I've used their saddle soap on some leather work I've done. They were mentioned in that thread also, but SEM seems to be the brand of choice in that thread.

A nice deal for free, the guy had a beautiful home on the water up in Discovery Bay. Turns out it came out of a Suburban which his son sold...so I misunderstood him on the phone, but it's in nice shape.

EDIT: stock, after reading on HAMB in the few threads over there about refinishing a seat. I'm more than happy with this acquisition. I mean, how can you be unhappy with a free seat? it was a beautiful day to drive out and pick it up. But if I do ever want to turn it black, it looks easy enough, and it's CHEAP for the dye. Thanks for that tip!