Inliners International Forums General Discussion Engines Engine not starting.

So i have a 79 chevy truck engine in my 65 impala (soo topic on turbo on this engine) because of recent problems i have to wait for it to be modded: the car isn't running,
starter has no issues, and when i spray in some start pilot i get it started but then dies immediatly,
before this happened it had a propane install and i set the timi,g to the biggest notch on the marks could not read how many degrees but on my ford the biggest is factory so thats why i did it with my chevy.
It still ran on the propane but i removed the propane install and rebuild the carb (since it has been running dry for several years).
I had to replace fuel pump because of a leak.

on the carb the fuel vent tube (which should go to a canister) is blocked of (by po).
and there is a small part missing (PO) [img]http://s432.photobucket.com/user/ZZfree007/media/chevy%20impala/linkage_zps36gncoq2.jpg.html[/img]
linkage in red is missing.
don't really know what it does (rochester varajet 2se)
have spark.

Disconnect the fuel line, put it into a container and bump the engine for a second to make sure you have fuel.

If you do the next thing is to start over with the timing. Pull all the plugs, find TDC and start from there. The distributor might be 180 out or you might have the wrong firing order or any other number of things.

firing order is ok (haven't switched wires since it last ran), will try the TDC to reset the timing, depending on the weather this will be friday, any other tips are more than welcome.

If it starts and dies with starting fluid...its either a fuel pump not pumping...or a needle stuck in the seat...or a seriously clogged up carb.

got the carb out again to let it soak in cleansing fluid, fuel bowl was full so no problem with the fuel pump. will keep you guys up to date.

cleaned the carb again, got the engine running but still needs starting fluid to start (hot or cold)... engine keeps running but after an rpm peak (pushing the throttle down and going back to idle it stall...) ignition is advance with the vacuum on to far before the notches. if i disadvance it engine stalls...
so gues i'm off for a new distributor and spark plugs then.?

Vacuum leak

back to off...:( engine only starts again using starter fluid but then shuts of... so fueling problem, will be looking for another carb i guess...

so i have done some more research but could it be caused due to the EGR system not installed?

I'd start with the basics. Check float level first. Then screw the idle air screws in fully and back out 2.5 turns.

float level ok (was checked when rebuild) idle air screw already have been adjusted correctly, then played with to get it running (no luck there)
i now have one more thing that bothers me: at the accelerator pump where the actuator rod is (so where the piston exits the body) there was no seal nor retainer when i opened it so the rod has little play in the passage? could this cause any problem?

You really do need to take the whole thing apart and start from the beginning if you can't start it after fiddling with it so much.

Check all the factory settings for the carb. This includes setting the float using the site glass rather than the level method.

Now find TDC and set your timing at 0 to start.

Fuel filter and fuel line.

When I say start with the basics I literally mean square one. You missed something or messed up somewhere. Don't trust anything that has been done.

I'm fighting the same thing right now but I'm getting close to solving it. Mine will start but dies as soon as I go in gear. Timing had changed somehow.

This is not your problem but thought you might enjoy someone else's weird happenings. A friend is restoring a 1954 Dodge truck they rebuilt the carb, new ignition complete, had fuel tank cleaned and sealed, new fuel lines, pump and filter. The engine wouldn't start so the removed number one spark plug and went to bump it over to find tdc, but the second they bumped the starter it started and ran about 20 seconds then died. So they reinstalled the plug and it wouldn't start, removed plug and started again. This continued on for a couple more days. Finally he called me and described the problem and ask for help. I ask several questions decided he was totally insane then agreed to go over and look at it. I got there told him to crank it over so he did and it never tried to fire. I signaled for him to stop and watched the air cleaner gasket blow off the carb. I busted out laughing and told him to go get his hack saw. After he decided I was insane he got the saw and I instructed him to saw off the muffler, now he knew I was nuts but he did it. I then told him to try it again the engine made almost a full revolution then started right up. In my entire life I had never saw a muffler completely plugged till then. We took it out side and banged it on the ground causing almost a half gallon of real fine rust/carbon to fall out. I guess we are never too old to learn. The truck had been parked since 1973. This just happened in August of 2015.

Might be the timing way to far advanced. Even with a vacuum leak it Should run....if anything it will start and runaway pending on where the leak is. Guys have been able to get their engines to run....and they wouldn't want to rev up....Timing was to retarded.....other times it spins over and over and over....hit some starting fluid...pops..sputters and dies....Timing to far advanced or your 180 degrees off. Firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4 so start with number 1 on your distributor and see where it is. Factory would have it at the terminal Right next to cylinder 1. If they're off one terminal your 180 off and you'll never get it right by turning the cap back and forth. Verify you have fuel going To the carb by spinning the engine over and watching the fuel pump gas into a bottle....then spin the engine over while looking down the throat of the carb(don't let it back fire on your eyebrows. lol) and see if fuel is squirting from the jets...if it is...the fuel is Not the major issue. Then move to spark...if you have a weak spark it won't want to start on gas. Your coil may not be getting proper voltage....Also check the points gap and make sure they're not to wide or to close. .018 is a general setting. Verify you have good spark....then crank on it while someone is moving the dizzy back and forth until it starts....get it to where it will run....let it get hot and set your initial timing to 8-10 for the time being. You'll know if you have vacuum leaks, especially when it gets hot. That's how I do my engines...so far so good! lol

I agree with the above advice. You need to go back to the the basics. If you have fuel, compression, and spark it will run if you get them to come at the right time. Don't take anything for granted. Check the compression on all cylinders. Test the battery voltage, test the coil, condenser and points. Set the points and adjust the timing so the points just open when #1 is at TDC on the compression stroke. Make sure the wire to #1 plug goes the the terminal on the cap that the rotor is pointing to. Make sure wires run clockwise from #1 to #6 in the firing order. Start from the fuel tank and be sure the line is not blocked. Check the filter for flow. Test the pump. Make sure accelerator pump is squirting and fuel in spraying into the manifold. Check to see of rockers are opening the valves If those things happen and the muffler isn't blocked it will run if not fix them.

Maybe a Potato blocking it? LOL!

Is the folklore true that if you put a pencil hole down the middle of the potato, it'll blow out the tail pipe like a bazooka? Yeah, yeah, nobody will give me a straight answer. It's like Snipe Hunting or Cow Tipping in WI.

Mark

I don't know but when the potato/hair spray guns were popular several years back some friends who worked at a rail road museum were getting some remarkable distances using the steam from the train engines. The potatoes were cooked at the same time.

hey you guys, will test the above (muffler of altough it ran before and it only has one mufler, rest is open pipe, i did had this problem once on my previous cars the last muffler was plugged and it also had a hard time to start. so i will try to make sure thats not the problem)
Distributor is HEI type so no points in there, voltage going to the distributor is 12.5V (haven't checked when cranking yet)
coil has been changed to test no progress
last time it ran (see a previous post) i have checked timing mark an it was indeed way advanced. but when i disadvance it the engine started to stall, so i advanced it back and it picked up again. maybe the mark is off?
when it ran (run for +-5minutes or more) i shut it out and a bit later try to start again thats when it stopped working again..so i don't think timing could be 180° off.
will have to check for proper spark and fuell again.
meanwhile i'm looking for a 250 head which is the non integrated type.

thanks for al the advice given

I had been running a Mallory Unilite since 2008. About two months ago I was driving about 10 miles from home and the engine quit. I was not getting spark at the plugs. When it cooled down it started. I checked the module, ballast resistor, and coil. It was all fine. I messed with it off and on and changed all the parts mentioned and the wires connecting it all. I tested the battery and it's connections. Finally I put the points distributer back in and it works fine. I'm making a lamp out of the Unilite.

I'm super interested now in the muffler and your results. How would one know (outside running without pipes) if the muffler was partially plugged? What would the symptoms be of a partial plug?

Thanks,
Mark

haven't had the time to take off the pipes yet, did manage to get it to run by pooring some aceton in the carb, do have a vac leak coming from intake manifold ( a tube that runs to the valve cover)
didn't have a stream of fuel from the accelerator pump so probably still have dirt in it somewhere...
second problem making it hard to start is that the electric choke is not on the car (from po)
so will fix leak next week and choke somewhere next month (by the time the parts arrive here)

as for what happens when tailpipes are plugged: if partially power loss and hard starting, when completely nearly no start, i had the rear muffler coming off of one of my prev cars because it was plugged.

You should post a pic of your car. I looked thru your pics and found it. Nice Ride!
That carb is hard to find. It is a progressive 2 bbl used on US trucks with 250 and the integrated head with dual exhaust. I do have a few of them.

took off exhaust, problem stays,
repaired vacuum leak, still not better.
made choke to operate manually.
I'll explain the problem again for those picking up now and not looking backwards;)

1 engine cranks, won't start
2 poor some fuel in carburator (intake) = engine starts it doesn't really matter what kind of fuel: aceton, gas, start spray it all works.
3. with a bit playing of the gas pedal engine keeps running. after half a minute i can let it sit at idle without touching the pedal.
4. when engine is warm it still needs the fuel in its troath...
5. no stream of fuel coming out of the accelerator pump

have checked:
Spark OK
fuel pump OK
fuel in carburator floatchamber OK
Clean carb (twice) Should be OK
turned iddle screw in and then 2,5 out OK turned it out some more (check)
Vacuum leak (checked twice, found one leak fixed it)
Check vacuum advance at HEI distributor, it works.

About the not starting I'm stuck about the accelerator pump i have one question which might solve it:
If the pump rod is in to deep is it possible the pump does not get any fuel in the bore which makes it impossible to shoot it out?

If you were to take the top of the carb off and push the accelerator pump down by hand...does it make a suction or pumping sound?

yep it does (was a test i did when i rebuild the carb (for the same problem)

If you floor it while cranking does it fire? Does the bowl fill up with gas at all?

no it doesn't only when a fuel is poored directly in the intake.
as stated fuell bowl is full to start and pump is pumping.
timing should be ok since i get it running and when i adjust it when it runs it dies because of it. I can rev the engine when it runs but if I step on the gas it hesitates a brief moment (accel pump not squirting)

got it started still have tot test on cold starts, it were multiple problems at once:
carb was not set good (idle curb mixture)
it had a vac line coming from the intake manifold going to the air filter housing which caused trouble,
vacuum line of the vac advance was too brittle
timing was off (due to testing things constantly)
and last but not least it had trouble with the exhaust muffler. when i got it running exhaust pipe came red after only one minute idle.... (one of both pipes) so we decide to give it another shot (tried it before didn't run then) and took the exhaust off. it stopped coming red and stayed running smoothly.
test drive felt like it had no power so set timing again on feeling and it runs and starts (hot) now i hope it stays that way, will test tomorrow cold.

btw when it ran without air filter we put a bold in the vac line going to a black block on the air filter. but when we putted filter on we put the line back where it should... engine died again. so got the line plugged now.

accel pump works since when we pumped it with the top of the carb of there was a (fairly) small amount of gaz passing the check ball.
thanks for al the advice gotten and keep you up to date if it starts cold.

update:

cold start not working back to off...

not sure if i should start a new topic for this one but im considering an engine swap because of the troubles with this engine.
its a 79 truck engine in a 65 impala. max CID 262 (250 +5%)
minimum hp same as now (110hp) preferable more.
should be a 6 cylinder, easy to find an easy on parts.

which are the most reliables chevy 6cylinder which can easily be swapped with my inline 6 (so no frame welding or converters for the tranny. Electrical jobs and exhaust work, fuel lines etc are no problem).

should i go with a V6 or an inline, and should i look for an injection car (easier starts, better performance, more difficult error finding) or with a carburated one?
what cars do the prefered engines come from (year and type/make)
thanks guys (and girls if any are here;) )

It may still not be getting enough fuel. Cold engines like Rich starts. A hot engine runs alot different than a cold one. Hence the reason it would start right up with starting fluid...and once it was warm run ok. I think its still the carb or timing. If should give a good Squirt of fuel every time you hit the gas. Might back the idle mixture screw out more? See if that helps. Try 1 more Full turn.

had + 1/2 turn, 1turn 1 1/2 turn and 2 turns, neither did help, but even without the extra turns car smell flooded after long time of cranking.... best guess would be:
new carb, new distributor (it did had some play on the shaft so altough spark tested good might be intermittent less spark), new exhaust, still needs new water pump, the part that has the thermostat and the thermostat housing on it is rely far gone aswell (can't find it anywhere new). and needs seals to be replace because of few oil leak. + it has the integraded head on wich exhaust manifold already has some bad repair jobs on it from PO.
my guess is that all this will cost more than finding a good running other engine.
So most probably i will look for another engine rather than keep on trying to get it going like this and always be thinking if it will start or not in the morning... thanks anyways.
now i can use some help on finding out what engine would be best (250 +5% CID for regulations)