Inliners International Forums General Discussion MOPAR Haroer Intakes

Wound up after some horse trading with a Harper intake for a Mopar. Has anyone ever seen one or have pictures of one? I managed to get a photo or so on the Bench Racing threads. All I've ever run into have been for GM products. click on this link https://photos.app.goo.gl/HKUDRhHnCBmNUDqE3

You can try this link and maybe toggle thru the pix. no more photobucket so click on this link https://photos.app.goo.gl/HKUDRhHnCBmNUDqE3

I could see one. Yeah, Once those guys got our pictures they decided to charge us to use them. I'm still in the process of down loading mine from my Picasa account. On the HAMB you can post from your desktop.

Tom I'm using Google now so new link will display more Pix

That's better. What a nice setup, it's got to be very rare.

The 97 is about 165 CFM, way too small (smaller than a Rochester "B" for a 216) for best peak power.
2 major reasons why they were used on V8s back in the day:
1. the Holley 4150 only dates to 1955.
2. the common log manifold with a big cross-over means every cylinder is fed by all the carburetors.

How unfortunate that Stromberg 81, 97 carburetors that are not completely trashed are priced the same as rubies
I've never seen one with the throttle shaft split (which is how all Harpers TIKO work).
Obviously, you can use 3 stock 97s simultaneously (not progressive using the center as the primary) but the entire concept of progressive operation is lost.
If you find a Harper for the wrong brand, an amazing number of L6 vintage engines (OHV and flathead) have 3 siamese intake ports* between 1-1/4" and 1-3/4", and a simple adapter plate to swap the bolt pattern and transition the size (in either direction) fixes that. The center distances: cut & splice the connecting tubes.
Have fun!

* Some older L6 have 4 intake ports, see it before you buy.

I'll post some pictures of my Chev unit when I unload the trailer and show how the linkage works, the inboard butterflies open first to about 1/3 open the outboard side opens and they both continue to WOT. I have some more 97 bases that I'll split and post photos.

Painc, Gary owns or has owned more inline intakes than any one I know. He and his late brother have traveled the West's swap meets where they for years set up an amazing display of vintage speed equipment leaning heavily to inlines. I wish they had published an illustrated reference book of the treasures they have run across. jalopy's margaritas are the highlight of the Hot August Nights swap meet.
I wish I had taken pictures of Titan's Harper setup because it is the most complete survivor set I have seen or heard of. The split shafts and every linkage piece was of a quality seldom seen on hot rod multi carb systems. I'm not sure how well they actually worked but am pretty sure they were expensive compared with what we usually see. The linkage was certainly better built and designed that anything I have ever owned.
That said some more modern two barrels used this way might be interesting if "vintage" is not important.

I agree, just from pictures the linkage looks like aircraft quality jewelry.

Thanks for the nice pictures. One thing that struck me was the small balance tubes but that's all they are and not runners.
Yes aircraft quality. After the war there were so many top notch shops and machinists that had been building airplanes. My dad worked for Douglas and I was always amazed by what he could do with pieces of metal. I wish I had payed more attention.

I'm not sure of the actual ID of those connecting tubes, but I would guess 1/4"?
IMHO no actual transfer of air occurs through them (between adjacent carburetors), but they function as a buffer for vacuum pulses at very low engine speeds.

If you're modifying Stromberg 81, 97 etc. remember that they almost certainly have the same jetting etc. in both sides - but they don't have to if you convert them to progressive. Since each primary is small the jetting can be lean for good mileage without reducing response, and the secondary can be rich for maximum power without loss.
I believe the 48 is the largest (common) model that fits the 3-bolt flange, it's about 180 CFM.

NO, do not use the [CFM = D X VE X RPM / 3,456] to get the correct size!!

The only other 2 complete Harper intakes are owned by Tim Tenold (Titan) and Gary Cope. (Gary Cope sent pictures but I cannot find them)Not having any pictures or diagrams that I can find, I made it work the way it was designed to but now see some minor flaws in my design. Hopefully tomorrow I can get far enough into the trailers and totes and pull them out for pictures.

I also have a complete Harper set up with split shaft 97s and the correct progressive linkage. So, that makes at least three known to remain.
Eddie

Eddie,Do you have pictures of it, especially details of the linkage. I'm sure there are more out there. Are you running yours?

No pics right now. Not running now. It is on a 54 model 261, bored .125 over pop up pistons, fenton headers, offy valve cover. I had this built in the mid to late 80s, fired it up for a few minutes and stored ever since. Planning to get it out in the next few(?) months, put on a run in stand and hopefully sell it. I'll be sure to take plenty of pics. then. After 30 odd years I suppose I'll never use it. Besides, I'd rather use the 261 with blower that I have.
Eddie 478-967-3362

I'd like to see the pictures here just to keep them together. I'm sure you'll have no problem selling your Harper setup. There's a guy in Georgia we all know who might use it for patterns.

I'd like to see a similar but scaled up manifold to use 3 X 2 Weber 32/36. One nice thing: you only need 1 pattern for all 3 runners/flanges/ports.

I have a homemade manifold with triple Weber 32/36 carbs on a 302 GMC. It is a scaled up version of the Harper. I made it out of steel exhaust bends, sheet metal and plates. Originally it had rubber hose ( 1 inch I.D.) connecting the 3 runners. I just finished welding all three runners together using 1 3/4 straight tubing. I did the basic design, cut out all the shapes and tack welded them together. A professional welder did the final welding.

As for as performance it does fine, especially when the secondary barrels come in. You can really feel and hear engine accelerate. I think it is because the runners provide a very smooth transition from two barrels into one. Also, the flow rates are always high because the runners have no extra volume to slow the charge down. It also pulls well at less than 1000 rpm in 4th gear.

I am not a wiz at posting pictures but I'll have my son help me tomorrow.

I'd like to see it. Webers are cool! When did Weber side drafts first come out?

The Weber side-draft most familiar is the DCOE 2 throat, which dates to the 1960s AFAIK.
There are other brands with similar designs: the Dell'Orto DHLA and Mikuni PHH, and IIRC some Solex.
The Weber equivalent down-draft IDA dates...?

Something that may be a problem (which has been worked around): the DCOE has many adjustable or replaceable circuits and internal parts but IIRC it does not have a power valve, metering rod, or other high vacuum lean circuit.
This means that your transition must be borderline rich (just enough) or the gas mileage will be bad.

This hasn't been done TIKO, but a small air solenoid and a Hobbs vacuum switch could add air only when throttle position is 10% or more, and vacuum is 10" or more (examples only!). Opens a hose ending inside the air filter, branches to a 1/8-27 NPT fitting in each manifold runner. Insert a restrictor in the main line to regulate how much air to get 15 or 16:1 on cruise, etc.

I use a similar method on my drag cars' 3 x 2 intakes on the idle circuits.

I now have some pics of the Harper progressive linkage. Never have been able to post pics on this site so, if anyone wants to post them, PM me or call with an email address and I'll send them.
Eddie 478-967-3362

Eddie emailed his pictures to me. I can't post them directly here but am trying to link them with another site that hosts pictures. They are the best detail of Harper linkage I have seen and show the intricate adjustments. Rube Goldberg comes to mind. They are big pictures and I'm have some trouble. Panic are you up for this?

SUCCESS: a to the pics on the HAMB: HARPER
Thanks Eddie!

Owww! My head hurts!
Never saw that before.
Extra complexity: all 3 have chokes, which may also be fast idle when active.
Very nice secondary throttle stops.
Not sure if I like the clamps to the lever arms, this needs brain surgery to assemble the first time and disaster if they loosen.
I can't figure out the primary to secondary bell crank - is it supposed to have progressive action (open at a faster rate as the linkage moves)?

I knew that would get you going. It is truly a Rube Goldberg setup. Eddie said the screws at the rear of the carb on each side are the primary and secondary idle adjustment. He also said the secondaries start opening at 1/3 throttle. I agree the first time you set it up would have been intimidating. You would appreciate the linkage quality. I wonder if the shafts are splined under the linkage? It seems it would need more than a pinch to stay in place.

Now I can see my mistakes, I got it working the way it is supposed to but I ran my throttle arms upward, And yes to the inboard side is 1/3 open then the other side opens, at WOT both sides are fully open, I'm hoping this Dodge Harper is similar.

JM2¢?
Based on the complexity of the linkage, they would have made it as universal "it fits everything we make" as they could.

I agree, but there's some difference in the linkage to the car and the center progressive linkage on the Mopar Harper is a little different.

Here's some photos of my homemade intake manifold similar to the Harper.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ep38w4agbj3rk1n/AABQthpPOykkjjuhVSGR_NaUa?dl=0

Hopefully the link works.

Yes, and they're beautiful!
Thanks.

That is nice work.

Tom, I'll bring the Harpers down to Reno this year. It's for the 26" or Spitfire engine, just built a stand for it Made some molds for the missing linkage pieces now either have to learn to cast brass or find someone to do small batches.

Gary, I'm looking forward to that. I heard yesterday at our meeting that the swap meet will be at Baldini's this year. Vic and I will see you on Friday as usual. Hope you'll come to the Nugget to watch the cruse with the Inliners and have a late dinner after. Any other Inliners are welcome to join us too.

My son's friend works at a foundry in Moundhouse maybe we can get him to take a look at your molds. Tom

I talked with my son yesterday and he is planning to be with us at the swap meet. He was interested in seeing your Harper set up and molds. The foundry his friend works at does aluminum but he is able to do some stuff at home. I'm sure we can cast brass pieces in a lost wax sand cast set up and get a good enough pieces to machine. My son has a complete machine shop and really likes making unique parts. This could be fun. We'll see if they want to tackle it.

It's a date, Tom , I'm in spaces j/k 27/28, don't have any idea where it's at, no map yet, but I'm guessing I lost my end cap spaces and I'm more than 3 rows from the front gate. I guess 15 years doesn't account for anything.

We'll find you! Does the blender still run?

Got a new blender, just waiting to make some orange blossoms and Margaritas.

A new one? Not a bad idea. It's not good to mix drinks in the same one you clean parts in.

Here's the Harpers, I'm in the process of correcting the linkage on the Chevy and trying to figure out what I need on the Chrysler. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jW2AKN...U=w1299-h974-no