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Guy's, In October my local dyno guy is real slow. So I am going to schedule a Saturday to dyno a 292. Going to test it with a bunch of parts.
Need help with 3 things: 1. Ideas 2. Labor 3. Share the cost of dyno time
Planning to dyno test multiple heads (small valve, big valves, lumps , ect) multiple cams ( I have a small selection of streetable cams) offy and clifford intakes. Mainly looking to see what type of power gains are had with different parts.
Anybody that wants to donate some money toward dyno time is welcome to get the results that are found. Tom
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That sounds like an interesting bunch of tests. Any guess on how much it will cost for the dyno time? I'll send some! Tom
"I wonder if God created man because he was disappointed in the monkey?" Mark Twain
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I got all the info confirmation yesterday for the hydraulic roller conversion and set-up for the 292, but that wont give me enough time to get the cam made...
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The dyno for the day is 500.00. Sure like to share it with others. I simply want to test a bunch of parts and ideas.
CNC, roller cams sound fun too. Tom
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I'm interested. Will pay a share. Al
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I'm in for $50. How do you want it?
"I wonder if God created man because he was disappointed in the monkey?" Mark Twain
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I also need ideas to test.
Al and Beater, You are very generous. I will get all the parts lined up and put together a plan on how to test them.
I need a cam to borrow that has appr .550 lift and 230ish duration @ .050 lift. Maybe even upto .600 lift. hydraulic or solid. It will be sent back. Could even be for a 230-250 as we will use a electric fuel pump.
Paypal is easiest, my email to use is telowe2000@yahoo.com or send to: Tom Lowe 3063 200th st Dysart, Iowa 52224
I have never shared dyno time before or dynoed just to test different combo's. It will be fun, we will shoot some video and take lots of notes and pic's. Anyone who wants can shoot me some money and the dyno pulls/combos will be shared. 20.00 would probably be the minimum. Thanks Tom
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how much are you looking for from the 235 guys for the info? I'd kick in even though its not my series, I'm sort of curious. Do you have a "curious guys" entry fee???
Last edited by 6inarow I.I. #14; 09/17/09 05:37 PM.
Tom I.I. #1475
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Let me know a date for sure, to make sure I have some bucks to spare, but I am definitely interested.
I'd really be interested to see how much power could be made with stock valve size, but with lumps and a high lift cam, along with increased carburetion and exhaust - etc. Just to see if decent power can be made without cutting bigger valves. Sounds contradictory, and half assed, but it'd save me money at the moment if I could just bump compression and add flow without cutting valves ( a nail head effect?)
Otherwise, yes, let us know the minimum, and you'll more than likely see a money order from me.
What are you expecting to make from this motor - ball park area hp and tq? And it's naturally aspirated?
Thanks!
-Sam.
1967 Chevy II, 2-door post. 250, 3-OTT.
1969 GMC 1/2-ton. 307, 3-OTT. DD.
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You can count me in for $50.00. Intersted in the different power bands for the 2 intakes and the different cams. Can you accept PayPal??
Last edited by jalopy45 II#4899; 09/17/09 09:48 PM. Reason: bad spellinking
'45 Ford PU 66 Valiant wagon, leaning tower of power. 79 Chevy C10 w/250 02 PT Cruiser Convertable
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Planning on any exhaust comparisons? Langdons cast vs stock vs tube??
'45 Ford PU 66 Valiant wagon, leaning tower of power. 79 Chevy C10 w/250 02 PT Cruiser Convertable
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I would like 20.00 to be the minimum. paypal is just fine, email to use is telowe2000@yahoo.com .
I am planning on starting with a stout bottom end. That part is built. Maybe a stock cam too. Will be using long tube headers, because temperature wells will be welded in for testing. Easier to hook up the exhaust , too. Would test Langdons If i had a set with short lead pipes. Who has them to loan? No test wells will be welded into them.
Expect to start at less than 200 hp and keep on growing up to the 300hp level. Maybe more, who knows. Looking to test parts for proven torq and hp combo's.
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Tlowe, unfortunately I don't have a penny to my name but I had a thought.
Since you are doing this in a very organized way and recording all results as you go. This may be a good opportunity to write an article and detail out your findings. Maybe it could be used for inliner organizations or you could see if one of the main stream Hot rod or Super Chevy mags would be interested.
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Sending $50.00 by snail mail.
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Tom:
I'm in for $100. It'll go out in today's mail so it should be to you in a few days. While I'm primarily a big Ford 240/300 fan, I've always appreciated ALL inline engines. So anything we can learn from your dyno test project will be a benefit to all of us, regardless of "brand".
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Tom I'm in for $75 but, you gota answer my last email. Just kidding. (sorta) I'd like to see what can be done with more cubes anyway. I'm hot on my 250 build but it will be a very mild one for my little SWB Chevy truck. I have a set of forged dished pistons lying in wait for the Brazilian head and a little pressure. Should be fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Randy S. Hager Venus, TX
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Tom I'm in for $75 but, you gota answer my last email. Just kidding. (sorta) I'd like to see what can be done with more cubes anyway. I'm hot on my 250 build but it will be a very mild one for my little SWB Chevy truck. I have a set of forged dished pistons lying in wait for the Brazilian head and a little pressure. Should be fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Randy S. Hager Venus, TX Do you have a head located yet, I have a good source in Brasil for them if you need one....I've got billet hydraulic roller cams available also if that interests you.
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WOW hydraulic roller cam, tell me more.........I was thinking about that and was going to do one. Yes, Edy Rodrigues in Brazil is sending me his head from his Omega. I'm only going with TBI on the current engine with a Sealed Power torque cam with less than .500 lift. Looks like I'll be spending more money on a power washer and swimming pool acid to clean my driveway with my current leaker. It's the stock engine from my 1982 pick up. I will save all the GOOD parts for a build to go into a Chevy II Nova Wagon.(don't have BUT will get) This will be a rear turbo configuration as to not alarm the un-expecting V8 person. Randy S. Hager Venus, TX
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Yeah, since Crane went away, I guess im in the inline roller cam business now. I can provide both the solid and hydraulic billet roller cams for not only the 194-250 and 292's, but the Stovebolts, GMC Jimmy's, Straight 8 Buicks and Pontiacs, and all the Ford inlines from the 170-250's and 300's and virtually any other American inline that has ever been made. I currently am supplying Schneider Cams with billet round lobe blanks for his Ford 240-300 line of cams. So when ever you are ready, just pm me with some specs and i'll get you fixed up.
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Thankyou's to: GabbyP russk Randy S. Hager ( I have now returned the email)
This weekend, will go thru my cams and inventory them and list them for you. Also specify which heads will be used.
Aiming to really find a good street engine combo. Nothing race, but nothing lame either. Tom
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Your 35.00 money order is in the mail. That's US money order!! Al
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Tom, I just sent $50 by PayPal, I think. Beater
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Al and Beater, you are now also included in the great 292 dyno day challenge! I have a few of the local chapter guy's coming over to lend a hand. Man am I going to be busy getting my parts all lined up. Tom
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Tom,
I'm in too. Just paypal'd.
I am thinking about lumps, cam, and manifolds so this is perfect timing! It will guide my final assembly plan.
-Tad
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$50. sent via paypal., Would like to help with the labor but the commute would be a little long.
'45 Ford PU 66 Valiant wagon, leaning tower of power. 79 Chevy C10 w/250 02 PT Cruiser Convertable
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Tom, You have more $$$ via paypal.
LG
Ignorance can be fixed Stupidity is forever
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Heater, Jalopy45 and LarryG, This is to confirm and thankyou for your generousity. There are others donating time and efforts either by direct labor or from afar with parts/materials. This is going to be a big hit. Tonight I'll post up my list of cam choices. Tom
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Sent what I could.
Looking forward to the results, hard data being worth it's proverbial weight after all.
My, what a steep learning curve. Erik II#5155
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Nexxussian, Thankyou! Believe me it will help.
Here are some more NEEDS:
1. timing sets/gears to install ahead of time on cams for quick swaps 2. Head gaskets, for the multiple head changes
Here are the cams in my stash.
1. Comp cams special grind Hydraulic 113 Lobe seperation .424 lift Int/Exh duration 212@.050 Adv 256
2. Clifford 92-3021 Hydraulic 110 lobe seperation .518 lift Int/Exh duration 206@ .050 264 Adv
3.Clifford 270H Hydraulic 110 lobe seperation .524 Int/Exh Duration 214 @ .050 Adv 270
4.Crower 03241 Hydraulic 112 lobe seperation .448/.460 Int/Exh Duration 192/200 @ .050 Adv 248/258
5.Crower 03311 solid lifter 107 lobe seperation .525/.532 Int/Exh Duration 238/242 @ .050 Adv 282/287
6. Comp cams 61-662-5 Solid lifter 106 lobe seperation .591/570 Int/Exh Duration 242/246 @ .050 Adv 280/284
Heads to be tested: Baseline stock 1.72Int/1.5 Exh 1.72/1.5 Open port 1.72/1.5 Lump Port 1.84/1.6 open port 70CC 1.84/1.6 lump port 70CC 1.94/1.6 lump port 70CC
That is what I have. Taking suggestions or comments. Tom
Last edited by tlowe #1716; 09/20/09 11:20 PM.
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How about a small chamber head to see the torque increase!!!
MBHD
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What head gasket do you want to use? Do you need timing cover gaskets too? I can check my price at work. I'll bet others can get them cheaper than I can. My O'Riley's discount isn't too hot. Carquest was way better! You're gonna' be swapping heads and cams faster than kiss a duck!
"I wonder if God created man because he was disappointed in the monkey?" Mark Twain
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in too,, paypal on the way...
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any final date set? So I have a time frame to send my contributin out.
I'm so flippin' excited for this!
-Sam.
1967 Chevy II, 2-door post. 250, 3-OTT.
1969 GMC 1/2-ton. 307, 3-OTT. DD.
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Guys:
I've never had a chance to be involved with a dyno session so just ignore the following comments if I'm stating the obvious or I'm just off in left field . . .
First, it appears that the various combinations to be tested will be comprised of induction, cams (and lifters, and such), heads, and exhaust. From what has been written so far, I'm gathering that there will not be any changes done to the rotating assembly or oiling system. But even so, the number of interesting combinations to be tested will be extensive and the dyno cell time will be limited and valuable. So I'm assuming a detailed "script" will be developed to describe each test combination, and in what order each will be tested. The sequence of the test combinations will probably become obvious based on optimizing the various parts changes.
Given that you may have 6 or 8 cams to test, 4 or 5 heads, 3 or 4 exhaust systems, and maybe 4 or 5 induction systems, the total number of combinations could be as many as (say) 800! Of course, not all combination would make sense (i.e. one of the high performance solid or roller cams with a completely stock head would not be a test you'd likely make) or be of interest. But there could easily be 50 or 75 combinations that would of interest and that involves a lot of part swapping work in the dyno cell on test day.
Having each cam preset with the timing gear is a great idea and I'm assuming it would be worth degreeing each cam and clearly marking the proper gear alignment prior to test day.
It might also help to have a front cover with a removable plate to allow the various cams to be changed without having to remove the entire cover. Maybe someone that has such a cover can lend it for the test.
It also seems to make sense to have the various induction systems to be tested as assembled and adjusted as possible so swapping them in the dyno cell will be relatively simple and quick. I don't recall if multiple carb induction will be tested but I know from experience that just adjusting the linkage to get all the carb sync'd can take some time that you'd probably not want to spend during the test day(s).
Another thought is a simple preventative measure. If you can, I'd consider adding a second TDC mark and indicator on the flywheel as a backup to the normal front pointer. Should the front pointer be "distrubed" during the heat of between-test parts changes, it might be nice not to have to re-determine the exact TDC.
Finally, you might consider clearly identifying each component and keying them to each step in the test script. That way, all the components that need to be swapped for the next test combination (step) can be pre-staged and waiting. This also insures that the right parts will go on the test mule when the time comes.
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Russ, many of these issues are being addressed currently. This exercise will yield several benefits as an objective. It began as a before and after test for the "lump" head to reveal the gains possible by doing this modification to the Chevy 6's, first with a stock type head with the usual mods people would try to do to these heads if they didn't know what a "lump" head was or were uneducated about how to modify the 6's, then bolt on an equivalent head that had the same mods done to it, but with "lumps" also added to show the huge gain from them over the previous head, now it has blossomed into a dyno session with an assortment of parts swapped. I know its hard to believe, but there are many thousands of hot rodders outside the world of Inliners that have never heard of Leo or his book. So, this will help enthusiasts become more familiar with these engines and how to modify them, and hopefully fuel the interest in them and lead to more interest in them as well. It will also help show some hot street combinations for others to duplicate, with real world data and feedback. All of this will be featured in a "top shelf" national car magazine in the coming issues. So, any details that might be missed here, will be revealed in the magazine article. I am writing the article, and have been working closely with Tom in the past months on some ideas in this area, and it has just grown into the project you see now, but dont think this is just a spur of the moment idea, we have been building up to this point for a while. So stay tuned, it will be both informative and educational to those who have always wanted to see what parts are the most beneficial and practical to use on your 6's for a good street combo.
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CNC-Dude, will this article include some typical(?) bent eight charts for comparison?
LG
Ignorance can be fixed Stupidity is forever
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Another question - what magazine are you planning on this being featured in? If you don't want to publicly tell, I understand, so you could either pm me, or keep it hush hush until it's published. -Sam.
1967 Chevy II, 2-door post. 250, 3-OTT.
1969 GMC 1/2-ton. 307, 3-OTT. DD.
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CNC-Dude, will this article include some typical(?) bent eight charts for comparison?
LG Well LG, that is possible. But I have found when you are trying to compare engines that are dissimilar, like a 6 cylinder and an 8 cylinder, it hard for most of them to see the parallel. I think that comparisons between something like the cylinder heads of the 6 and 8 cylinders might be an area that they could relate to, so that is a thought to consider.
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Hats off to: GabbyP, RussK, Finger6 and Winter.
Samwise, there is still plenty of time. Date is still to be determined, but will be late Oct/ early Nov.
I am getting the heads worked up now.
RussK, You are correct, too many combos to be tested, so this has to be very planned out and structured. There are only so many hours in a day and we have a big task at hand. There is a two piece timing cover for easing cam swaps and a jig for lifting heads. All heads will have full stock rockers as to make swaps quicker. There are no multiple carb setups , just single 4 bbl's.
It will be CNC's job to put the article together and file out the info.
All contributors will get all documentation that I get and how each setup worked. The real inside scoop. I will also writeup the general feel for the combo's even for non contributors. Nobody will be left out. I do like to share. As said before, just trying to get real #'s to backup performance changes made. Tom
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