Inliners International Forums General Discussion Engines New to inlines, critic my build plan!

Hi everyone,
I've got a project that geared me towards this site. It's a '50 Chevy 3600, original engine is cracked and no transmission. I also have a '47, but that's going a different route (original, simple). Since the 3600 isn't as desirable and because I have had a slight itch to build an IRS vehicle, that's what my plan is. I'm collecting parts for the suspension and drivetrain, currently I have my spindles, engine, T5 transmission, and differential. However, since this is the engine section, I'll stick to my engine.

The goal of this vehicle is to have a daily driver style of a build, no crazy cams, boost, or ultra-high compression. Since the engine block was cracked, I kept an eye on Craigslist for an inline 6. I found one listed simply as Chevy 6 with a 3 speed tranny for $150 bucks. Picked it up (got a free bottle of wine with it!) and sold the transmission (minus bellhousing) to a friend who uses them in circle track cars. Tore apart the engine to see if it was buildable, so far so good. Ran the numbers and it turns out to be a 230 CI. Although I would love to have the 250 for just a little more oomph, since I'm more concerned with good fuel mileage it's not a big deal to me. That being said, if I come across a 250 crank for a reasonable amount, I'd pick it up.

Anyways, my plan is to rebuild it with a mild ISKY cam (one that requires no head mods) and to try to bump the compression a bit. I'd like around 10:1 so I can run premium fuel and still get the benefits of higher compression. I'll run the original carb and etc. However, I'm going to collect parts on the side and build a fuel injection swap for it. I'd like to pick up an Offy intake (I bought one, but it didn't have the injector flats molded), a spare head that will receive roller rockers (reduced friction equals higher mileage), lump ports, and a valve job, some cast headers, etc etc.
I plan on running a Megasquirt computer, sequential injection, etc etc. All the fuel injection is a ways away but the engine rebuild to stock is happening currently. Thanks tax return!

This build is fighting for my time with my '85 C10, '79 Z-28, and 3 customer vehicles ('70 Datsun 2000, '68 C10, '79 Trans Am). However since everything is in parts, I can sneak it in when we are slow at my normal job (auto mechanic) since I don't have to push an entire vehicle in.

I have read the Inline 6 book, studied what I can on here, but could use some help from the seasoned vets. Like I said, it's not a high HP build, I'm just basically trying to increase the volumetric efficiency as much as possible on a 50 year old engine to result in increased mileage and a little extra power.

A 250 crank would be a good upgrade for sure. Be careful on how you choose to increase your compression. The traditional methods of raising compression in a SBC by swapping to a smaller chamber head do not result in the same kind of gains for the Chevy 6 as you see in the V8's. Just remember that more compression doesn't equal more power in all engines.

That was a question I had, what is the best way to go about it in the inlines, pistons or plane the head or...? I don't have the inline book by me currently to reference. I hope to find a 250 crank, I need to start driving around the local farms and look for abandoned trucks.

Well, the inline book doesn't really guide you in this area, it just helps you identify what is available and leaves the selection process to you. As for the gain your seeking, an open chamber head can be resurfaced to give you close to what you want with a flat top piston and zero deck if you find a 250 crank.

Mitch,

Before you spend a whole lot of money on rebuilding the 230 have a look here:
[url=http://www.bangshift.com/forum/showthread.php/26529-Gary-Hart-s-1951-GMC-Half-Ton-now-with-Teaser-video!/page32][/url]

You may have to copy and past the link to get it to work.

For equal or less money you would end up with 275 or 290HP with better gas milage that the 230 will give you.

Complete drop out engines can be had for $1200 to $1800 complete with wiring, PCM and gas pedal.

EFI-DIY, I actually have a 3.5L inline 5 that is going to be turboed and installed in my '85 C10. I recently purchased the injectors and base tune from Limeswap. I'm doing this for the uniqueness and fun of building EFI from scratch. I'm going to try and hide the EFI components as much as possible.

CNC-Dude, any idea how much should be taken off the head or which pistons are recommended? I have found re manufactured crankshafts for just under $200 (I have no core, so I'll have to pay that).

Keep in mind that boring the engine oversize and adding larger valves increase your compression as well. But if you shoot for a 70cc chamber and some budget 307 flat top pistons at zero deck you will be well above 9-1/2 to 1. You can fine tune it from there if you want more.

Thanks for the specs, I will keep them in mind throughout my build. It's easy to snowball, but I'm trying to keep the project moving by doing the restoration-style rebuild so it's drivable, then collect another head, get my intake, injectors, etc etc. When I have everything I will pull it apart and swap to my performance/fuel injection parts. However, I'd like to have the bottom end done first (crank, pistons, etc) so I don't have to go that deep when I swap to the newer setup. Clear as mud, right?

Mitch, you may want to read up on sequential port fuel injection system and the Chevy 230/250 engine. Even fuel distribution may be an issue with the 1&2 and the 5&6 pairs of inlet valves. With the 1-5-3-6-2-4 ignition firing order, these pairs of Siamese ports due not have equal timing between opening sequences of the intake valves. Throttle body injection may be an alternative. Not to say there may be another work-around for a good functioning port injection system with the Siamese valve head. Later years of the Brazilian Chevy 250 had port fuel injection with a different cylinder head, using 6 individual intake ports

"greg64" at the following link initially installed port injection, then swapped in throttle body injection.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=276823

Hmmm... I had read something that hinted at that situation earlier. TBI would be much easier to swap and easier to hide, maybe I'll have to save sequential for another project.

So no one has had a successful sequential injection set up on inlines?

Yes, but not with a siamese port head.

Although it's a bummer that I'll have to wait until another project comes along to build a full sequential system from scratch, it is a relief that I can use my current Clifford manifold and will be easier to build. I do appreciate the help from everyone, considering the small crowd of inliners I am amazed at the timelyness of the responses and getting the answers I need. I should put up some pics of my '85 C10 that I'm swapping the 3.5 into, that will look a little more finished.

Way back in'08 efi diy and I did a demo at the Inliner Picnic at Bonneville. We put a temporary GM TBI with a Megasquirt on the 270 GMC in my '53 Chevy pickup. I never made the permanent switch because it was intended for another truck. The '53 is just a couple of hours away now. I guess I should just do it. There are some posts here about it and about the help that Marc gave me on putting my Megasquirt together. Here are some pictures that may help. I could try to dig out some of the old posts if you want.
DONOR
CONVERSION

Thanks for the pics, I'm sure they will be of help. I'm a "new generation" mechanic and have lots of experience with fuel injection, looking forward to trying this out. That's kind of the theme of the build, old and new combined. The pickup will have a few other things along those lines. My goal is appearing old with modern functionality.

Does anyone have experiences with crankshafts from Crankshaft Supply? Found this
http://www.northernautoparts.com/part/ck-18028
and thought it may be the easier route vs trying to find a 250, pull the crank, hope its good, etc...

Is the non-tapped 1.250 neck a problem with the 230 swap, or is that the way the 230 is?

None of the crank snouts are drilled and tapped on any of these engines, you have to do that yourself. Also, many cranks that come as kits from companies like that have had some sort of repair done to them, thats how that get them, they are usually cranks turned in for cores that had journals spun or thrusts burned up and needed to be welded up. You just don't know what you are getting when you buy one.

Mitch, Here is a link to page 14 of a 15 page thread I started here several years ago. I never got finished but there is a lot of good information and links to other goo stuff. The basic idea was to build a turbo injected 292 using a turbo from a 1981 Firebird and TBI injection from a 1989 GMC 305. I built a Megasquirt and rebuilt two laptops and bogged down trying to use Windows and get my head around the Megasquirt software. There are several old threads here that might help you. Our search feature sucks so they are hard to find. Two ways that work but take time are to Google a topic and to search the posts of guys that post a lot and check the topics. Efi dyi did a lot on Megqsquirt and EFI conversion.
LINK

Mitch, we borrowed and used Beaters stripped out wiring harness at the inliner convention in South Texas a few years ago and Mark came with his Megasquirt ECU. Some one else had a wide band O2 sensor and a Computer control Dist. It took about 2 hours to remove the dist,carb and install all the pieces on the door prize 250 Chevy already mounted on a run stand and fire it up. We also had a Painless wireing harness and swtched it in and it worked just fine.Once you have all the pieces together it is not a hard job

Very nice! I'm going to start keeping an eye out for these parts, I believe I know where I can find most all of them. For now it's all the planning.

Jerry, That harness was brought from BC to Bonneville by Marc in "08. I got it from him there. You and I shipped it to Texas and back. I doubt that there is another wire harness in the country that has traveled farther while disconnected than that one.

So, just got the word from the machine shop that my engine needs to be bored .060 over. Will these pistons work with a 250 crank and 230 rods in a 230 block?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-295p60?seid=srese1&gclid=CI3l3pebmr4CFckWMgodug0AlA

I don't plan on running boost or nitrous, I believe cast will work just fine for my plans.

The Rods are the same Your 230 block will now be a 250 Because of the crank. And those pistons are list for USE in a 307 So yes they will work.

Great!

Earlier in the thread, 307 pistons were recommended to me. Is this because they are higher compression ratio than the 250 pistons or...?

Mitch,

GM did on the 4200..

On the early engines, as noted the intake runner really mess with the fueling.

If that picture of the 307 pistons you posted a link to, those would be less compression than the stock 6 cyl pistons.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-295p60?seid=srese1&gclid=CI3l3pebmr4CFckWMgodug0AlA

Probably 8:0

MBHD

Hmm... well now I'm confused as to why they were recommended. When I compare them to the 250 pistons
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/stl-w403p20/overview/make/chevrolet
it looks like the 307's would have higher compression since they are not dished.

Also, I do not want and will not put a 4200 in this vehicle. The idea is to update an old engine for fun and uniqueness. I'm already running an Atlas engine in another vehicle as well.

I have not looked at any piston catalogs lately.

You just need to find out the total dish in cc's.
Yes the 307 are flat tops, but have 4 valve reliefs & a large chamfer on the outside top edge of the piston..

If you can research, you need to get the 307 pistons that are flat tops w/the 4 valve reliefs, but,,, have no chamfer on the top side of the piston.

Maybe some guys here have the correct P.N. you need?

Guys!


MBHD

To make things more confusing, when I go to the Federal-Mogul (Sealed Power) catalog and look them up, they show a pic without the chamfer.
http://fme-cat.com/overlays/part-detail....T%20CAMARO&vin=

I had already ordered the pistons, so I'm really hoping they are correct. I ordered W295P60, I'm assuming the W is for with or without rings. The 295P60 was only available in a set of 8.

Notice that both 403 and 295 pistons have a chamfer. I don't know if they are they are the same size or not. The dish on the 403 piston is listed as .085. The dish on the factory piston measured by Crow is .060. The 403 piston has a height of 1.640 and the 295 is 1.655. Mitch can you provide by measuring the dish depth and compression height of the pistons that came out of the engine? Thanks Jay 6155

Well if they look like that piston on the link you posted, those are the ones you want, good luck.

MBHD

I've found that same Sealed Power piston on several sites now, from around $18 to $27 per piston. They all have the same picture of flat top with no chamfer, except for on the Summit Racing site that has a picture with a chamfer. I suspect the Summit pic might be a generic piston pic on not the 295 piston.

I guess this used to be easy. You just got TRW forged 307 pistons with no chamfer and that was it. My understanding is they are no longer available. When Mitches pistons come in we will all know if the pistons match the picture or not. Jay 6155

Forged is a little above my budget right now! I'll let everyone know, maybe get a couple measurements when they come in.

Yeah, I'm on a budget street/daily driver build. Forged is more of a street/strip build. I don't plan to race, and forged are a little noisy from my experience in small blocks, so cast is my interest anyway. Fingers crossed for no chamfer.

Make that two sets of fingers. Jay 6155

Make that three

.060 OVER WILL BE A HOT RUNNING ENGINE. I,D FIND ANOTHER BLOCK OR SLEVE THIS BACK TO STOCK. MY .040 ENGINE WOULD RUN HOT BUT I RUN A 160 STAT AND A 4 CORE RAD WITH A "BIG" GM 6 BLADE FAN.

I'm not worried about the .060 making it run hot.

X2

My .030 over block would run hot also, but my cooling system had some problems, was not up to par.

Custom pulleys incorrect size, no fan shroud,, fan too far away from radiator, etc.

MBHD

Piston's are supposed to be here tomorrow so we will know. Also, if anyone was curious, W295P60 is a single piston, whereas 295P60 is supposed to be a set of 8. Took me a while to find that out, finally dug out our Sealed Power book and looked. I have found places that list the 295P60 for sale individually, I don't know if they are breaking up sets or just don't want to put 2 numbers in for the same piston.

And the verdict is......chamfered. Bummer. I'm going to try and contact Sealed Power to see why they don't have the correct picture for the piston.