Inliners International Forums General Discussion Bench racing I'm new here

By far, the multi-keyway Cloyes is the best option. Stay away from the fiber gear timing sets.

I know Cloyes is good stuff. I'll check it out!!

Thanks, Scott!!

Sure, no problem!

Do you like the aluminum cam gear or the iron gear better??

If I were building a race engine i'd use the aluminum gear.

The cloyes set is the nicest one. Kind of a waste of money getting the multiple keyed one. Even when you degree in the cam . Most times they are right on.
On the crank gear. Always drill the gear with 2 holes opposite of each other for later removal with a puller.
Also , drill the crank for a damper bolt.

anyone recommend removing weight from the huge counter weights on these crankshafts?? and the usual deburing, to try and tame the lumpy idle on the little bastards,,,
or would that take away the low end torque that was designed into them?

It is a trade off, and that can be a downside. The heavier mass actual helps dampen it, lighten the crank will make it worse. Works good for circle track to make the revs zip when coming off the turns or drag racing though.

I thought about knife-edging the crank on this project and going for better windage and a lighter rotating assembly. My machinist is a wizard at balancing and could easily take care of the re-balance, but I'm really not planning doing any racing with this unit.

I figure I can use the extra kinetic energy from the larger mass to move the car at low speeds and from a standstill.

I saw an intake manifold like the one I built for this engine on Bombshell Betty, the '52 Buick with the straight eight. It's a Bonneville world record holder. Maybe I'm on the right track!!

Hey, TOM!! I'm planning to come up and see you toward the first weekend in August. I have friends over in Colfax, so I'm knocking out two birds with one toss of the rock!!

Let me know if that fits your schedule.

So!! I took the current iteration of my inline 4 banger on a trip last week. 250 miles each way and no major problems. It ran a little hot on long grades in the heat of the day, (temps approaching 100 degrees) but otherwise performed well.

I'm figuring an oil cooler will fix the problem. I've installed them on trucks that had issues while towing big loads and the resulting drop in coolant temps were as much as thirty percent. One truck in particular went from running 240 to a cool 160. We had to install a 205 degree thermostat to get temps back into operating range.

I'm not towing and it only runs hot at high speeds. I'm thinking that the airflow to the radiator, it's in the trunk under a louvered trunk lid, is being diminished from the aerodynamics under the car at speed. The oil cooler will be placed in the wind stream at the front of the car where it'll work best when the car is at speed.

Anyway!! You should see the looks when I go around some fancy late model with a V8 or V6 engine driving that little 4 banger out in the open and squalling through the header!!

I'd like to see some pictures. This sound like a fun ride.

I gotta' figure out how to post photos here!!

Here is where I learned to post pictures. LINK It works the same way here. First you have to have an account with Picasa or one of the other net hosting outfits. If all else fails email them to me and I'll post them for you. asixrow@hughes.net

This is a test! If it works, this is a picture of Lockjaw, my 4 banger rat rod.

[img]http://s300.photobucket.com/user/roehric...?sort=3&o=8[/img]

This is a photo from earlier this year. There's a lot of stuff in that album showing parts and steps in the project.

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We've decided to have the new crank offset ground. It will produce a stroke of roughly 3.660". I plan on putting the crank in the machine shop when I get back from my extended vacation.

Looks like displacement will be right at 175 cid. At 1.25 hp per cubic inch that would be almost 219 hp. I figure to be a little below that at first, but it's a reasonable expectation when I get the combination refined and get it all tuned correctly.

What crank are you using. My numbers with with a 181 crank and rods in a .040" over 153 block come to 174.8 ci. That is a 3.60 stroke. All off the shelf parts. Well the pistons are off of tlowe's shelf. I'll try to get the short block assembled this week so I know I'. not just blowing smoke here,

We're using the 181 crank with the two piece seal. The machine shop will regrind the rod journals to 1.980", offset to the outside radius. That's a 2" journal minus .020". That moves the journal centerline out and create a 3.655 stroke, (approximately). With a bore of 3.905", (+.030") that works out to 175.10 cid.

I'm planning on using a forged flat top piston and a 6" Scat H-beam rod. Ross has the piston I'm looking at. It's designed for turbo or nitrous and with zero deck height will produce a compression ratio of right at 9.5:1. I understand from tlowe that he has most of what I plan to use and I've been in contact with him.

DO let me know how your build works out. It'll be late fall before I finish the rebuild on mine. I'm having too much fun driving it with the stock setup to pull it down now. I appreciate all of your input and any info you are willing to share.

That seams like a lot of work to gain .20 ci over what I did. I don't see that the .055 increase in stroke is worth the extra cost unless it helps get to zero deck. I really need to put mine together for real. I bought several sets of pistons that had a stated compression height that was was wrong. I read later that when replacement oversized pistons are made the CH is lowered to offset the rise in compression gained from the over bore. The Ross pistons I got from Tom should have, by my measurements, stuck out above the deck but they don't. At least in the mockup they didn't. I'll try to get them in soon so we have something real to look at.

I was gonna' leave it stock stroke, but it needed ground anyway and I have a couple of favors owed me. My head specialist has the connections and as they say, "Because I could!"

I really didn't have a target displacement. Jimmy, my head builder, wanted to go .030" on top of the initial offset grind, but it'll clean up at .020 and I'm a little conservative. I AM going with a slightly smaller bore. I guess my Harley person came out. "Stroke it!!" was the answer to any rebuild of the old V-Twins in my world.

This way, I've got a little meat left on the crank and some cylinder wall left too.

Sounds reasonable to me. The best way is not always the way that presents itself and we are left to answer "OK, Where do we go from here?" I'm going to be about 6" short of a 181 at half the cost of a stock one with no easy manifold fixes. At least not easy for me to fix. Owed favors are a great resource!

I built that "Tunnel Ram" that's on mine. It took me three days to weld up the header, intake tubes and plenum. I probably could have done it a little quicker, but I had just had my right shoulder reconstructed and I was working mostly one handed.

Check with Andy at Hell's Gate Hotrods. He has all of the stuff, INCLUDING a really nice header/intake flange for the siamese port head. I bought everything but the plenum box for less than $250.00 DELIVERED!! Included a flange for the Holley carb and a collector. All mandrel bends and good EXCELLENTquality.

I took and easier route on my intake. I cut down a 3X1 six cylinder Offy into 2X1. I also cut down a set of 6 header flanges but then found a Fenton Black Widow header for a small block. It is going to take more work than I first thought but it will work. The ports are a little smaller but will be OK.

OH YEAH!! I remember seeing that in your posts on the HAMB!

I had a really fun excursion in the rat rod. I figured out a couple of things after compiling all of the data and reflecting on a couple of situations.

1: The carburetor is lean on top end. The lean out causes the car to gradually overheat if I keep it wound up. My math tells me that the carb is able to flow enough mixture, but the mixture is too lean.

2: The new 350;1 gearing is damn near PERFECT! The car will pull well in overdrive on all but the steepest grades and the downshift is smooth and plenty good for the engine's capability.

3: The car weighs a svelte 2,300 pounds with me in it. I weigh a corpulent 260.

4: This thing has huge fun potential, but it ain't big enough for two people to take a high mileage vacation in.

HEY! BEATER!! Didja' get your 4banger put together??

I sent you a PM with more detail but here the shot version, NO! I got quite a bit done but I had the wrong rear main seal. I didn't know '62-'67 was different than '68 to the one piece seal. The right on arrives tomorrow and I'll try to get the rods and pistons in Wednesday. There may be a clearance issue with #2 rod and the fuel pump cam lobe when using a 181 crank. I'll put that one in first.

I am rooting for you Beater!

Rooting hell, send me Jake!

Blackwater, Here's your up date. I hope your trip is underway.

It seems that my magic number today was 0.016". That is how much clearance there is between #2 rod and the fuel pump lobe of the cam. It is also how much the pistons stick out the top of the hole.
The rod bearing fit is going to be on the tight side but within specs like the mains. This is going to be a tight little engine for a few miles. I think I'm going to clearance the cam a little just to be on the safe side. I'd ilke to see about 0.030" there. I'll stick the other two pistons in and check that out. I have another 0.040" over block that may have a little taller deck. I can turn the pistons down some the top land is thick. A quick reminder of parts. BLOCK-0.040" over 153, 181 CRANK and RODS, tlowe's forged flat top Ross 250 Chevy PISTONS. I have a 0.040" thick copper head gasket. I have no idea of what the valve/piston clearance will be.

[img:left][/img]

Good progress Beater!
Why the copper gasket? I would use a standard Felpro unit.

Those pistons are thick enough. Trim them but be careful not to scuff the sides.

I thought he copper gasket was cute.

The engine is cute, but the copper gasket will require use of oringing the block.

Blackwater, have you found out anything else on a roller cam core?

I haven't!! I've been on the road for over three weeks and just got home this evening.

Sorry I wasn't able to make it over to see tlowe, but my inline four cylinder HONDA let me down and I lost a whole day buying another vehicle!!

Beater!! I'd use that copper gasket to jig everything up and go ahead and figure piston to valve clearance and maybe even pattern the piston tops!!

Juice!! I'm going to use a hydraulic flat tappet cam for the time being! Vigilance and tenacity will make a roller eventually come to hand. Again, in the mean time I'll be recovering from the trip and diverting some of my "rat rod/four banger" money toward a damned car note, something I haven't had in several years!!!

I figure to be physically recovered by the middle of next week. We drove a total of 8,900+ miles and covered 21 states!! My bucket list is a little shorter and my wallet a lot lighter right now!!

That sounds like quite a trip. It's not really a trip if there isn'r some kind of car trouble. I'm already planning next summer's Texas trip.
I put all 4 pistons in and came up with measurements of from + .020" to .023". My buddy and I are headed to the V&T Railroad shop tomorrow to take .025" off of all 4. Then I'll be able to measure piston to valve clearance and figure pushrod length. Meanwhile working on header, valve cover, and side cover.

Juicetone! CNC Dude says he may produce some round lobe roller cam cores if enough interest is evident.

I actually corresponded with him regarding converting a 292 to a roller set up. I did find a roller core at Crower that we had custom ground. We plan to use some link bar lifters to match.

It was CNC Dudes help that really got me to thinking critically about this project. His idea was to use a stock roller set up from an 2.5L inline four, the Iron Duke some call it. Bad part about that is the parts are out of production except for the lifters. It just uses a standard fare hydraulic roller lifter for a small block Chevy. It's the lifter guides and the hold downs that's the kicker.

Oldsmobile 455 links and Chevy small block rollers will work.

You'd think GM would upgrade the cam system on the 3.0 Vortec industrial engine!! With the additive situation becoming what it is, a roller will soon be all that can live!!!