Inliners International Forums General Discussion Blown and Injected snowman4839 turbo build

That's unfortunate. The one on the engine right now is a new factory style balancer so I'm not worried about old rubber but that's good to know.



Well it sure looks like a nice unit. Is there any way to use the factory fan with the ATI unit (or the TCI rattler) or does it essentially force you to go to an electric fan?

The rubber tends to harden due to "gassing out" (the petro chemicals are slightly volatile - hence the strong smell of a new tire) over time, ozone, engine bay temperature, and sunlight UV. This will affect how much and how easily the hub can shift inside the rim, which is how the crank harmonic is suppressed: converted to friction heat in the rubber. It will still do something, but not at the designed engine speed, and perhaps to a lesser extent. A new one should be good for at least a decade (just my guess).

The ATI unit is used in SEVERAL factory applications! It usually will work in the place of the OEM unit, but you should check with the manufacturer to be certain. For my big block Chevy's it was no problem to run a fan, We usually used an electric fan, but the clearance in our Super Stock cars was fine and one car even used the factory alternator belt and pulley.

I have trouble posting pics here. If you go to panic's post #93464 02/18/18 05:21 pm he posted pics of the mockup engine with blower and if you scroll down the is a picture of the carbs. hope that helps.

Nice! I'll give it a look after I get the engine broken in and I've recouped some funds!



You can drag and drop them on imgur.com to host them and just link to them in your post. It's probably the easiest way to post pictures

THE TURBO GOT HERE. Been dancing around waiting for the FedEx guy to come but BOY WAS IT WORTH IT :-)

New Turbo!




Slapped right on the SPA Turbo Manifold with a T4 to GT35 V band adapter (which also helped push it out a little bit so the turbine and compressor housings don't hit the carb plate)




Clearance to the A-Arm



Comparison to the old 56mm ebay GT35 I had vs this 66mm GTX3582R Gen 2



Victory thumbs up in my PJs
[img]https://i.imgur.com/eIa9CqW.jpg[/img]

I can't stress how perfectly this thing fit. Got just enough clearance to everything: upper a-arm, manifold, and steering shaft. The oiling and water lines should be pretty easy to figure out with all that space at the bottom compared to the cramped quarters the old up-pipe had me working with. I'm ecstatic with this thing!

Hoping to get it out, painted up, and broken in within the next month. Only other big thing I need to do with it out of the car is buy and fabricate a wastegate mount for the bottom of the SPA manifold. Still trying to decide between the 38mm, 40mm, and 44mm Tial wastegates. I feel like if the 38mm ebay wastegate works, a 38mm tial will do just fine but good god, I don't want to have to rebuy a wastegate and refabricate a wastegate mount if I find out it boost creeps on the 38mm.

Then I gotta work out the transmission/clutch/flywheel situation before I can get it driving but I'm already planning a muncie m20 or m21 and a clutch to match. Probably going to go ahead and do the holley super sniper TBFI and replace the gas tank while I'm doing the fuel system for it. Interesting that holley sells their sniper efi fuel tanks for like $600 when you can get a replacement fuel tank for $100 and a 1/2" to 6/8/10AN adapter for $150 which is what I'm planning on. Should be able to use the pump off my old fuel cell setup. Unfortunately with EFI systems, apparently the return needs to go after the fuel logs so I can't do my fancy dual fuel cell system anymore. Also gotta buy a EFI regulator in place of my carb regulator.

YAY THE TURBO FITS! :-)

Very impressive.

Looks nice and great fit. Like to see a better pic of the T4to V band adaptor.

Wastegates. Not sure which one to use. I use a 38 on mine.

What size is the Exh A/R on the old and new turbo?

Thanks y'all!



Old 56mm was a .69 A/R turbine. New 66mm is a .82A/R turbine. I had full spool by 2800rpm IIRC on the old journal bearing which I was happy with. I'm hoping the ball bearing will compensate for the slightly bigger A/R.

Tom - is your 38mm mounted at a T with the exhaust pipe or is placed swept forward to be advantageous for the flow into the wastegate?

Just took the turbo off to check the water and oil fitting sizes. I'll try to snap a pic of the adapter flange tomorrow

My WG is on the old design manifold and only is fed from the rear 3 cylinders.

Interesting. I'd imagine the center placement of the other SPA manifold with a 38mm would do just fine then

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Do y'all know how the coolant flows through the water pump? Does it flow through those two inlets/outlets out into the passenger side inlet/out of the radiator or does the water pump pull coolant from the passenger side of the radiator and pump it into the block? I'm trying to figure out where to get hot and cool taps of coolant for the turbo coolant line

Pump > block

Primary coolant flow is from lower radiator hose, into water pump, to back of engine, up to head, forward to water outlet/thermostat, into radiator. There is a by-pass off the water pump and a few smaller holes in the head deck that move smaller volumes of water.

I have a 44mm WG for my setup, but because I'm setting up twin scroll plumbing, I may get a second one to keep the pipes separated. Of course, I have no idea yet how my setup will work, the turbo is likely oversized for my application.

So ya'll think this fitting (below) in the back of the driver-side of the block to, what I assume to be, the cooling jacket would be a good place for a high pressure line and have the return line T into the radiator hose with a bulkhead fitting? It's hard to visualize what is higher pressure and lower pressure in a cooling system since there's no pressurized passages (oil passages) and no pressure areas (oil pan) like in the oiling system.


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Here are some pics of the adapter from T4 to garrett V band (apparently there are several different types of V band) adapter. I know it looks like it just blocks part of the T4 flange but it actually has curved walls inside the T4 part that direct exhaust toward the v band.

just bought a bunch of fittings for the turbo for water and oil for the turbo. Still gotta find a place to plumb the water so we'll see.

Also just bought a Tial 38mm V band wastegate. Should be able to get the engine out this weekend and hopefully start getting the wastegate mount fabricated next week since it should be here on tuesday.

Pre-and Post- thermostat. Pre-Thermostat would be considered pressure (between the waterpump and thermostat). It is a bit of fuzzy math, particularly when the thermostat is closed and flow is through the by-pass hose.

That coolant drain plug would flow coolant, but is pretty small. What size line do you need? Just as important, where will you return the line? Your best bet maybe to tee into the heater hoses. The lower one off the pump is the higher pressure.

Thanks for the info. I'll nix the coolant drain idea then. So it seems like putting a coolant tap for the feed line under the thermostat in the thermostat housing would work? This would be on the same part that would have the feed line to the heater core. I'll probably use a bulkhead fitting on the radiator hose to the water pump inlet for the return. The feed and return barbs on the coolant banjo fittings I just ordered for the turbo are 3/8" so I'll jusy use 6AN lines to match. Should be more than enough.

Just for reference, the oil feed is a 4AN fitting and the oil return is a 10AN. Wish there was an oil feed line on the driver side of the car so I didn't have to run it up and over the valve cover but we work with what we got.

Yeah, the coolant plug on the side of the block is 1/4" (-4 AN). Though there are 1/4" NPT fittings with 3/8th barbs. The radiator is the ultimate return location for coolant. Pretty much anywhere you get coolant from the engine will return to the radiator.

The line under the thermostat should be the "return" line for the heater core. The lower hose off the engine to the heater core is the out flow. If you are returning to the radiator though, the line under the thermostat should flow coolant.

Why not run the oil feed under the engine? Or between the thermostat housing and valve cover?

So from what you've said, this image of a V8 should have the same flow of coolant right? So putting a tap in the part of the thermostat housing under the thermostat (the part that connects to the head) should be a pressure line and the hoses feeding and exiting should be lower pressure since they're after the thermostat and are being pulled in by the radiator correct?


Your comment about the the line under the thermostat being a return line seems contrary to the diagram and the fact that coolant would flow into the water jacket, out of the head, and push against the thermostat. It seems like the heater core line that goes into the water pump would be the one "returning" coolant from the heater core to push into the block

Huh, I always "assumed" the heater hose coming off the pump was an out-flow, but that does make sense. Learned something new today.

Got the engine out today! It's on the stand ready for the wastegate to be fitted up.


Got the Tial 38mm wastegate in today. Took em 2 days to ship from Texas which is quite impressive!



Here's the center wastegate mount that I'll be using. It has a cutout on the bottom of the manifold and uses a T25 bolt pattern (learned that the guys at SPA). I have a plate of steel that I'm going to use to swap out that aluminum plate I'm going to use for the 20-30 minute cam break in.


Here's the plan for mounting angle. It, unfortunately, does not mount directly down as even the small 38mm wastegate hits the engine mount. I'd rather not trim the engine mount so I'm going to buy a 1.75" Stainless pip mandrel bend and cut out a 45" bend to weld onto the pipe so the wastegate is held at an angle under the turbo.



So the plan now is to order that mandrel bend and some fittings to plumb the water and oil for the turbo. Then I should be good to take it apart, paint it, and break it in!

got the 1.75" pipe to mock up the 38mm wastegate. Looks like the diameter on the bottom of the SPA manifold if 1.75" anyway so a larger wastegate doesn't look like it would help unless I want to cut up the manifold. Looks like I can get everything right where I want it. Waiting on a gasket to fit up the turbo so I can have it in place while I fabricate the wastegate pipe to know if the oil drain will be in the way of the wastegate.

Just ordered a bunch of braided steel lines and AN fittings so I can fit up the coolant and oil lines. The plan is to have it ready to run and break in by July 7-8 so we'll see how it goes

So got most of the plumbing done today except for the coolant return because I need to dig the radiator hose out to measure out the AN line and install the bulkhead fitting.

Nice pretty front shot of the 6AN coolant inlet line (top) to the turbo and the 10AN oil return to the pan (bottom)


4AN oil feed and 6AN coolant lines


Close up of the 10NA oil return


4AN oil feed from around back to the turbo


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Last step of the puzzle really is getting this wastegate flange welded up to mount the wastegate. Pretty much just need to cut the 45 degree 1.75" pipe and weld it to the flange I just finished drilling out last night. Turns out using a hole saw on a hand drill on .25" plate steel is pretty difficult haha. My biggest worry at the moment is that the plate is mild steel and the pipe is stainless and I only have mild steel filler rod so we'll see if this flange holds up at all with these welds.

Looking good. Only because strange stuff happens, how is the oil return attached to the oil pan? Welded? Backing nut?

I only ask to be sure that the crankshaft doesn't come in contact with it. My experience is the front part of oil pans really don't have much clearance in them from the rotating assembly.

Thanks!

It's welded. This is the same oil pan I've run in all of my turbo iterations in this car so I'm pretty confident in it.

Got the flange made! I'm still a terrible welder but it looks pretty decent and it holds the wastegate!




Here it is on the engine. Angled it slightly to get it away from the oil return.

Looks fine to me!!

Thanks!

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I'm praying that it doesn't hit the frame rail when I put the engine in the car. I'm not sure of a way I could've made it any more compact. That top nipple is going to be right up against the frame rail :-/ Luckily I only need the side nipple to hookup the wastegate normally.

Otherwise I'm going to be going through the whole fab process again :-/ I guess time will tell

So I couldn't live with myself if I didn't test fit the engine tonight so I threw it in the car a minute ago and saw how the wastegate fit up and OH MY GOD. Couldn't have fit it up better if I tried.

Got about 1/16" of an inch from the top of the wastegate to the frame rail and it touches the tiniest bit of contact on the motor mount on the bottom of the wastegate you can see in the pic. Probably going to need to get some new stiffer engine mounts to make sure the engine doesn't rock too much and have the wastegate rock into the frame. Can probably shave some off the wastegate flange to move it up away from the frame.

EDIT: Also just realized the motor should rock this wastegate away from the frame rail if I remember correctly so I'm a lot less worried about it now


What it looks like in the car.

Remember that the engine will rock in the opposite direction on deceleration!! Why not trim a little off of the frame rail or put a small dent in it? You could also space the motor mount off a tad.

Are you going to run a vacuum line on the top of the wastegate?

Yeah that's a good point. I'll probably space the motor mounts a bit and trim the turbo flange.



I'm not. I'm going to to run it like I did my other setup with just the boost pressure line under the diaphragm. I believe the top line is for the fancy solenoid operated setups so I'll just plug it.

I beat in the frame a good bit where the wastegate should rock into. I'm surprised it had that much give. We'll see how much clearance I have once I get the flywheel/pressure plate/transmission in so I can put it in the car.

So of course things couldn't go well for too long without something causing a problem :-/

I took the manifolds off and the alternator so I could clean up some bits to paint the block and manifolds and was greeted with this...

The bolt I used to tighten down the ends was too short so it actually ripped out this side and toasted 3 or 4 threads on the other side. This side has about 5-6 threads left and the other has 7-8. of what I think originally was 10. I did the best I could to salvage it and clean it out and went and bought some studs to put into it like I should've done in the first damn place but the studs seems sturdy enough. I'm not sure how tight I'll be able to make these ends (the chiltons book says 35 ft/lbs) for all of these bolts. I'm just praying it doesn't cause an exhaust/boost leak.

Otherwise I'm going to have to probably drill it out for a bigger size and drill the manifold or have a machine shop weld, plane, and retap it. I'm halfway considering jb welding around the inserted bolt just to give it a little more thread :-/


Anyway, here's the state of the engine with the studs in


and I drilled and tapped the two ports on the offenhauser for 6AN and 8AN fittings today just so I wouldn't have ganked and cut bolts stuck there and instead of ports I could actually use for a boost gauge or something.

so I couldn't help myself and had to go check. Turns out the rear stud could hold 35 ft/lbs but the front just ate all the threads out so yay now I've screwed these threads. Gonna hope I have enough metal to tap it to a 7/16 that I can put an insert into.

so I drilled and tapped the busted front 3/8" threads to 7/16. Didn't take much material out and I took the water pump off and had my shop vac pull the metal out down through the cylinder head bolt hole so no shavings went where they were supposed to go. Thread looks fine. Now I just need to pray the rear bolt hole holds up.



Still blows my mind that those fewer threads held up to 35 ft/lbs.

I've never actually replaced a pilot bushing/bearing in this thing and I'm about to get an M20 muncie. Do these engines use bushing or bearings and does anyone know how to size them?

It was an oilite bronze bushing. Make sure it fits your input shaft and it should press fit, (use an installer tool or an old input shaft and gently tap it in) in the end of the crankshaft. If there is an old one present, pack it full of hard grease and use the same tool to hydraulic it out.

Sweet thank you. Good info to have in the next month