Inliners International Forums General Discussion Engines Progress made 1404 Edelbrock/Clifford

I thought I'd post an update for anyone who has/or is thinking about running a similar setup, and maybe someone can help me solve my last(only) problem.

I did hook the secondarys back up, and started checking over everything. The Dwell was off some , I also swapped some Bosch plugs back in getting rid of the AC's, rechecked ignition timing. Calibration kit came, and although I was using the book for a guide for seats/rods/springs at first, it seemed it would get worse and worse. So I just started swapping stuff in/out until I got what I wanted. My brother also didn't bring his vacuum gage home from work for me yet, so I am shooting blind with the metering rod springs. Here is what I got so far.

.083" Jets
Rod 6347(.063"x.047")
Pink Spring

Supprisingly, to me atleast.........It runs great, idles great, when you tromp on it she responds . Only issue that I still have, is that on a hard pull(Big grade) and the engine lugs down at WOT it starts sputtering, downshift and let off and it moves right along. But without a load on it, it opens right up. Am I correct that this is a lean condition at WOT? The 6347 rod is the smallest one in the kit so I can't go any smaller than .047".........I do have .089 Jets, so my thinking is try them with the 6347 rods and see if that helps. Any other suggestions/ideas? If I get this problem solved it is gonna be a great running little setup. Or is there another condition going on that I don't know about when this occurs?

i think you are on the right track. i followed along on you other post. sorry i did not chime in. all along i thought it was tuning of the carb. i also believe the clifford is a good intake. yes it has large runners and may not work the best on a small motor, like a 194-230. 250 -292 should have no problems. heating the intake is a major thing that has to be done for proper operation. i know you did it. next it is like you have found, tuning is the only way to make it run right. it could be lean as you suspect, but also keep in mind too much fuel gives the same effect. goodluck and keep on tuning. tom

Yes, I thought about overfueling too, but wouldn't that show up without a heavy load on it? I can stand on it and it cranks right on on the level without the sputtering, only time it does it is on a grade when being pulled down.........I guess it would be wise to try the 6252 rod(.062 x .052) and see if it cures it, and if it doesn't swap in the bigger jets. Getting to be a pro tearing down the carb

But like they say, 1st your an ameture, second time and expert

it sounds as though the wide open trottle mixtures are close to good. you need to tailor the part throttle to keep it crisp. have you done any changes to bring in the secondaries quicker? i don't think that is needed. tom

No, I didn't even know you could vary the secondaries.........How part throttle varied? Metering rod spring rates?

I seen in the manual that the secondary jet can be changed..........I don't know where it is located and the book doesn't say, but could I change it out for a larger one for more fuel on the top end?

That is correct,
you need to take the top half of the carb off.
Disconnect the accel pump & remove all the screws.
You will see them in the bottom of the float bowl area behind the primary jets.
Correct, on the last question.

If you get that gauge in there with you when your WOT under load, you will see whats happening. It recovers when you drop a gear and ease up on the thottle because your carb get's back some much needed vacuum signal. I am pretty sure Edelbrock has springs available to change the tension on the "air door" for the secondaries, I think a stronger spring might help there. If you go bigger on the jet it probably will help pull the hill, but it may make the secondaries way too rich when you arent under a load. The air flow just needs to pull harder on the jet you already have. Basically you may need your secondaries to come in less or at least later. Just throwing some idea's out there.

Played with it today some more.........Setup as it is now.

.083 primary jet
.063 x .047 rod
largest pump shot(3rd hole, or one nearest carb)
.086 Secondary jets
Pink Spring 7-in Hg.

It seems to be working good now, I may try a .089 jet in the secondary yet and see what happens. It had a .095 in it, tried bigger, made it worse, so I went down to .092 and it got better but still not right......Skipped .089 and went to the .086 and it runs great. I tried less stiff springs, but it carried on in the mid range so I put the pink ones back in. Would the .089 be worth trying? I don't want to run lean on the top end. I figured a 250 CI engine would be getting enough with the .083 primary and .086 secondary, am I correct on that thought?

Do you have good power at WOT on the big hill now?

The secondary air baffle on those carbs operates strictly by airflow / vacuum. There is no spring or any other way to adjust the opening other than to remove it and physically alter it. DON'T DO THAT.

There are no metering rods on the secondaries either. Fuel delivery is changed by jet changes.

I've found that many times what is offered in the calibration kits isn't what is need and end up buying a couple of different rod sets that are in the range I know from experience should work. Every engine is different and they will all take some patience setting them up. Just write down each change and after driving it make a note as to what got better and what got worse. This will give you a road map to follow as you go along. Sounds like this is what you're doing.

Yes, good WOT on the hills now and it has that lug that I love out of an inline. It would start to miss though when I backed out of it at the top though, but with the smaller jets in the secondarys it hasn't done it yet. I thought it was over-fueled so I put smaller jets in, but is something else causing that occurance?

Mike G, I don't have enough experience to buy a bunch of different rods, so I am trying to get it as close as possible with the kit, and then should I need something special I can go from there. I was using the book's jets/rod combinations at first, but it seemed to get worse, so I just have been throwing stuff in/out and testing it now.

The AVS series Edeldrock uses a 'quicktune' tunable springloaded air valve to adjust when the secondaries open. But the Q-Jet, Carter and 'original Edelbrock' all use spring loaded air valves, and the air demand of the engine opens them, as they begin to open, they expose a fuel port that enriches the mixture enough till main jet starts to flow. If the secondaries open later they will pull more fuel faster.The more resistance to opening this valve the greater the pull on the main jet, but once the valve is fully open it will have no effect on mixture regardless of spring preload

TP from Central PA,,,,

The quick & easy way to tune your vehicle is w/a wideband O2 meter.

I use the LM1 from Innovate
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm1.php
It's about $350. but worth every penny.
You can use it on other cars, like your friends,or other people & charge them to tune their A/F mixture? So you can get your money back???
Just a thought???

Dan the carb in question is a 1404 Edelbrock Performer. The secondary air baffle is a simple counterweighted arrangement. I've dealt with several dozen of them and have yet to find any kind of spring that is used to assist how they open. Maybe I haven't been looking close enough?
To delay the opening you have to lighten the baffle plates by trimming them or drilling small holes in them. To speed up the opening you have to lighten the counterweights. It sure would be a lot simpler if there is a spring to adjust this but there isn't one on these carbs.

The latest carb from Edelbrock is the Thunder Series AVS, Air Valve Secondary, and it does have a spring loaded adjustment so the baffle can be staged to open sooner or later than the secondary throttle plates.