Inliners International Forums General Discussion Engines Cam Gear Re-Install

Sorry for double post on this topic but I think my original post "knockin on devils door" may have some confused. I called it that because of my original symptom was a knocking sound. The troubleshooting is complete. The cam and or cam gear is loose and moves approx 3/16-1/4 inches out then back in while cranking. It appears that the entire cam is walking in & out. There is only a very faint etch mark in the inside of the timing cover. No damage on the "aluminum" gear, the only part of the gear that made contact was a raised letter cast in the gear face. Should I pull the entire cam out....it was running fine except for the noise which I assume was the gear making contact with the inner cover. Of course I will inspect the thrust washer after I pull the gear tomorrow. I am hearing that I should heat the gear prior to re-install. How? & How much? Torch, Oven ? Then do I just tap it home with a mallet? I am a 1st timer for this one. See my original post for the "rest of the story" Thanx...Duce

Just got a phone call from a friend who sez...go back to the "steel" gear and forget about the alunimum one for a daily driver..what do ya think.

I do not think you can get a steel gear unless you want one for the Pontiac Fiero 4 cylinder HP set.
And that set has straight teeth.

MBHD

If this is a stock Motor You can go back to the Fiber gear which had a steel center. But It will not hold up to any Type Of cam change.(meaning anything above stock)

Hank at one time Cloyes did make a all steel set.Which they used to sell to UPS. But are no longger made.!( I got the last set back in 84 in which i still have NO not 4sale)It is also my understanding that PES sold a straight cut Steel gear set If they still do I don't know.
But anyway 6T4 if the ALum gear set is installed The right way You won't have any issues.Like you just had.

Dennis mentioned this in your other thread:

I've always put the new aluminum gear in boiling water until it was hot. 5 minutes should do it. I install the thrust plate on the cam and put a .002" feeler gauge between the thrust plate and new gear and push the gear right on. If your cam's warm to the touch, putting it in the fridge for a while may help.

He's serious, stick your cam in the refridgerator, boil the cam gear and it should slip right on, no pounding required. Dont forget the feeler gauge and thrust plate.

Good luck

dennis is right. i had this same thing happen to me years ago with a 261. the builder just put the aluminum gear on with a board & a hammer & later it started knocking bad. i was told to put a new one on in the same way. it is the way the aluminum gear is intended to be put on. this is what is called an interfearence ( sorry i know that's spelled wrong ) fit.
robert

I'll chime in here too. The thrust plat holds in the cam and you need to follow the spec of the manufacturer. I think old GMC is .003-.008" That's all the movement the cam should have. Sounds like the guy put it in flush with the end of the cam snout. Personally I like the aluminum cam gears.

Cloyes makes a lot of stuff. I called them about gears and many, many are available. The factory did some retarding for smog in the 80's and there are gears made specific for that. They also sell one with the 3 settings on the crank gear. advanced, retarded, and straight up. Plus the straight cut gears. Mr. Gasket sells offset keys for this purposr too. Parts for the Chev V8 does fit. Remember the cam turns in the opposite direction if your wanting to move it..For the street I've run up to 6 degrees advanced. Talk about low end torque, it was awesome.

Good Luck

Update: The gear came off too darn easy, so it is pretty safe to assume the engine builder did not install it properly during rebuild (approx 2500-3000 miles back but also over 3 years ago). The gear has some indications on the mating surface that I am not comfortable with so I will buy a new gear. My cam (Crane) is predrilled and tapped so I will use the same tool for installing a harmonic balance wheel to ensure the new gear is on properly. Thanks for the tip on putting a 0.002" feeler gauge between the gear and thrust plate to ensure it is "home". Good thing my wife is out of town cause I am using the "Fry Daddy" with some 30 wt oil to heat the new gear. The new gear won't be here till tomorrow so I will let you know how it went when I crank it over.

If I were doing it I would only use an electric oven pre-heated to 350 degress. let it heat soak for about 35 - 45 min. This will allow the gear to expand to its max growth for an easy install onto the cam snout. It will not damage the gear unless you use force while it's still hot. Go to the dollar store and get some oven mittens so you can throw them away and hide the evidence and act like nothing happened!

IF you do it in a oven Put it in there COLD Then turn your oven On to 350 This way there is NO Shock to the gear It all warms up at the same time. Just lay it on a cookie sheet. In Oil is better Use a Old Pan you will no lonnger need to Eat Out of(another Need to USE again) I have also
Heated them On the stove top In a Pan Of Boiling water. AGAIN start out Cold Bring it to a boil for about 20min. But the Oven is the better way.

Twisted..I will put it in the "Fry Daddy" in room temp engine oil...plug in and let it sit in the oil bath which should regulate to 375 degress for 20 minutes...I hope that does the trick.
Duce

Larry: Thanks for adding that. If it was billet or forged it would not hurt it putting with the oven already heated. It would come up to temp fairly evenly anyway. The real shock would be to cool it with water after it has reached temp.

Duce: Watch out for any mositure on the gear before you dump it in the hot oil.

It is always Better AND SAFER to do everything COLD to hot. This way you have no shock to OIl or the Part. No drop in temp at all. It ALL comes up even. Then when everything is to temp Let it sit there for 15-20 min and you'll be fine a little longger will not hurt.I have been installing these gears for at least 20years now this way and have not Yet (Key word) Had any problems. And Like
Once said before IF?? you can put the cam in the
Freezer It to will help.But not always needed.
The Least alum. that is shaved out of the center
Of the Gear The Tighter the fit you will have.

Did a "dye penetrant" check of the Cam gear that was removed and found it had a crack. Was not detected by the naked eye on initial removal. The thrust plate was fine and the cam had not moved so the fix is just a new gear and gaskets/seals. The 1st delivery of the cam gear was the wrong one. Won't get the new "Alumy" one till monday. Darn missed another weekend cruisin in the Gold Rush Foothills. Intend to install the gear without removing the cam and use the Hot & Cold method as discussed above. If anyone has any other tips before I proceed on Monday please chime in...TKS
Duce

Well the cam was wiped and even a couple of lifters were mushroomed. It appears that when the cam gear walked so did the cam and it walked enough to damage the lobes thus damage to the lifters. Had to pull the oil pan and persuade a couple of them out. Crane is grinding my new cam today which should be delivered by thursday and of course sending new lifters too. I read the Crane install/break-in instructions but want to know if there are any other tips to ensure a proper break-in. Also I have been told that the newer oils do not contain any zinc and if you use Shell Rotella Diesel Oil you will get better lubrication...what do ya all think?

TECH BULLETIN: Flat Tappet Camshafts
Recent changes in oil and engine technology are likely the cause of premature camshaft failure; here’s what you can do to protect your engine!

Premature flat tappet camshaft failure has been an issue of late and not just with one brand or type of camshaft.
In almost every case, the hardness or the taper of the cam lobe is suspected, yet most of the time that is not the problem. This growing trend is due to factors that are unrelated to camshaft manufacture or quality. Changes in today`s oil products and “advanced” internal engine design have contributed to a harsher environment for the camshaft and a potential for failure during break-in. But there are several things you can do to turn the tide on this discouraging trend.

Proper Camshaft Set-Up & Break-In
Proper flat tappet camshaft set-up and break-in, as any engine builder knows, are keys to how long a camshaft will last, both short and long term. Making certain that the camshaft and lifters are properly lubricated will guarantee that the camshaft and lifters are protected during the critical initial start-up of your newly-built engine.
COMP Cams® offers the right product for this job (Part #154), and it is available in several different size containers for engine builder convenience. To further enhance this “relationship,” we strongly recommend the use of COMP Cams® Camshaft Break-In Oil Additive (Part #159) during the break-in. While this additive was originally developed specifically for break-in protection, subsequent testing has proven the durability benefits of its long term use. This special blend of additives promotes proper break-in and protects against premature cam and lifter failure by replacing some of the beneficial ingredients that the oil companies have been required to remove from off-the-shelf oil. These specialized COMP Cams® lubricants are the best “insurance policy” you can buy and the first step to avoiding durability problems with your new flat tappet camshaft.

Adequate Lubrication
Another major factor in the increase of flat tappet camshaft failure is your favorite brand of engine oil. Simply put, today’s engine oil is just not the same as it used to be, thanks to ever tightening environmental regulations. The EPA has done a great job in reducing emissions and the effects of some of the ingredients found in traditional oils; however these changes to the oil have only made life tougher on your camshaft. The lubricity of the oil and specifically the reduction of important additives such as zinc and manganese, which help break-in and overall camshaft life, have been drastically reduced. In terms of oil selection, we recommend Shell Rotella T oil for the break-in procedure. Most often used in diesel engine applications, this higher lubricity oil works in gasoline engines as well.
Today’s engines are great at providing oil to every engine component except one - your camshaft. Windage trays, limiting oil’s ability to reach the top of the engine, modification of connecting rod side clearances for less splash oil and special oil pans further complicate both the break-in process and camshaft operation in general. But there are several things you can do to correct these problems.
COMP Cams® offers flat tappet lifters with oiling holes in the cam face surface, which will increase oil flow to the lifter-camshaft lobe contact point. Furthermore, using a lifter bore grooving tool (COMP Cams® #5003) will enhance oiling throughout the camshaft and valve train. As we all know by now, better oil flow means better initial break-in and increased camshaft durability.

Flat Tappet Lifter Selection – Choose Carefully!
In addition to these engine modifications, make certain you purchase high-quality lifters. Most lifters look alike, but you don’t really know where they were produced. “Imported” flat tappets often times use inferior lifter castings and DO NOT deliver the durability of COMP Cams® high-quality, US-built lifters. COMP Cams® lifters are built to strict diameter and radius tolerances and designed to fit precisely within their lifter bores. This ensures the lifter rotates properly and decreases the potential for failure. Additionally, COMP Cams® Flat Tappet Lifters have the correct oil band depth and location to properly regulate the internal oiling of your engine.


Five steps to increased flat tappet camshaft durability:
• Double check your camshaft and lifter set-up prior to the break-in process, and use an ample amount of the supplied assembly lube on all lobes, distributor gear and the face of bottom of each lifter.
• Use high-lubricity engine oil such as Shell Rotella T oil to help during the break-in process, or use COMP Cams® Camshaft Break-In Oil Additive (Part #159).
• Use flat tappet lifters with cam face oiling provisions, such as COMP Cams® Part #800-16 (GM) or #817-16 (Ford).
• Use a COMP Cams® Lifter Bore Grooving Tool (#5003) to increase oiling.
• Use high-quality, U.S.-built COMP Cams® lifters to make certain you are receiving the best quality lifter you can buy. Avoid “brown bag” lifters.

6T4: Follow the cam maufactures directions. I use diesel oil because of the zinc and solid lifters. I also use GM EOS assembly lube poured over the lifter side of the block and rockers before starting an engine; cam gear too.

This site http://www.micapeak.com/info/oiled.html will show which oil has the most zinc.

Good Luck

Scrap & Jimmy6,
Thanx for the recent replies. My motor was only about 5K miles or less since rebuild as told by the previous ownner. The engine was very clean during tear down. Everything was new...but if it ain't put together right...! I should be back together by early next week and will let you know how it is going. Bummer cause I am missing the early car shows/rides in the Central Valley here near Tracy, CA where I live.