Inliners International Forums General Discussion Hi Performance Vintage Water injection

I bought a vintage Vanderpoel Water injection.

Is anybody familar with that?

I saw a device called Oct-a-gen wich looks similar.
I belive it goes above or under the carb.
How does it meter the amount of water?



Thanks, Frank

it goes over the carb & under the air cleaner.

How it works? Like a perfum, using vaccum of the carb? I would try it if I could.

All of you guys who are interested in water injection are on to a good thing. It really does work, and does the same thing for an engine that 100 octane gas used to do. Which is to slow the rate of combustion in the combustion chamber so that the fuel/air mixture doesn't detonate when the spark plug sets it off. I've never seen or heard of a Vanderpoel water injection before, but the way it looks, it probably works on vacuum. However, back in the mid and late 70's, both Holley and Edelbrock made aftermarket water injection setups which were electronic and were triggered by the coil and engine vacuum. I had one on a hot rod El Camino that I drove in those days, and it worked wonderfully. You can find both Holley and Edelbrock water injection kits on eBay, but neither of them are in current production. If you don't want to use a 30 year old kit, there is a company named Coolingmist that currently makes an electronic water injection for both turbocharged and normally aspirated engines, and their normally aspirated setup sells for about $300. All of these kits have an electric pump, tubing, and nozzle which sprays water mist into the airstream when it's needed to control detonation, and they work! If you want more info on Coolingmist, their website is www.coolingmist.com

dont these water injection set ups add a good amount of power, sort of like nos but just less potent?

There is no significant power gain. What performance you do gain is by additional timing advance. Water injection cools the combustion and will also eliminate the carbon in the combustion chamber. Cooling the combustion allows the additional timing advance. It is used quite a bit turbo and super charged motors.

Larry

If anyone is interested currently on EBay.
Item # 200111897781
OCTA-GANE Water Injection Carb System

Not mine.Just for info.

Those are interesting Drew. It's actually a pair with SS tank and literature. Supposedly will fit any Rochester or Cater single barrel carb.

Again just info

Larry

Gentlemen;

Dozens of "devices" aimed at improving performace were marketed during the 50s & 60s without any real success etc.

This type was helpfull climbing a grade with low octane fuel, but didn't have a long "life span".

Today; even without any lead, the fuel is such that they wouldn't be of any value. The one described by Zeke (4259) might be worthwhile if you drive in the mountains however.

Happy trails.

John, I have to beg to differ with you on this. Water injection is not in the same ballpark as the various, ah, "devices" sold by J.C. Whitney and other mail order houses in the 50's and 60's. It is a proven system used on race cars, supercharged and turbocharged vehicles, and was used on some fighter plane engines during WWII. What it does is to allow, as Larry said, the use of more advanced timing and a higher compression ratio, plus it cools and steam cleans the combustion chamber while the engine is running, so you don't get any carbon buildup. Want to run 11:1 compression on 87 octane gas? You can do it with the addition of a water injection system. And I'm saying this from experience, because that's exactly what I was doing in 1978 when I was using a water injection setup on an engine that had a compression ratio of 11:1 or 11 1/2:1 and would detonate like mad until I put the water injection on it. And if you're wondering why I had an engine like that at that time period, it was built when you could still get 100 octane fuel on the street back in the early 70's. Water injection saved that engine from self destruction, and it ran happily for several more years. However, if you use a compression ratio of 9:1 or lower, it probably won't do a whole lot of good other than to reduce carbon buildup internally in your engine. And, no, water injection doesn't add power by itself, but it does allow you to add power by other methods you wouldn't ordinarily be able to use with today's gasoline. OK, I'll get off my soapbox now.

I just installed a hi tech alcohol-water injector on the modified GMC 302 in my 37 Chevy pu.The engine was detonating at full throttle on 93 octane,not the light pinging ya get when pulling a hill at part throttle,but the detonation that turns pistons inside out.The engine has a heated intake for good low speed performance,but the heated intake,agressive spark advance and 9.5-1 actual compression causes detonation at full throttle.Unheat the intake,gas mileage and low speed running is poor.Reducing the total timing helps,but also cuts performance.
The water-alcohol injection solved the problem without performance reducing retuning,and I can run 91 octane instead of 93 if necessary.It cools the mixture and the alcohol adds a slightly higher octance rating.Common windshield washer fluid works dandy,a gallon lasts a tank of gas for reasonable normal driving.
Water-alcohol injection or anti detonation fluid was used extensively by Allison on their V-12 aircraft engines during WW2.GM also used a water -alcohol injection on the early 60's turbo charged Olds 215 V-8 engine.
This add on injection is no different than any other means used to increase performance.Of course the system needs to be properly engineered to work properly,there's more to it than just dumping windshield washer fluid into the manifold.

Dear Z & T;

I was refering to your basic 'stock' engine and the J.C. Whitney devices of the 50s.

The newer type(s) work well I'm sure, for the higher compression ones etc.

Does this work better than just adding a fuel additive??

John,I did use a genuine tetraethyl lead additive that worked,but it's quite expensive.This detonation problem with my engine is a result of the way it's built and tuned.It's right on the edge and a slight drop in octance has it detonating badly.The water -alcohol injection works for me,it's primary purpose is to limit detonation.There's no real advantage to it if you engine doesn't have a detonation issue.

Looks similar to a Top Cylinder Oiler that my Great Grandfather invented. Ill have to get some pictures of it and the patent. It was intended to inject oil into the intake to lubricate the valves and tops of the pistons. When my dad was in his 20's and racing he came over one day and modified one to inject a mist of water, they installed it on my dads rail car and had good success with it.

Looks similar to a Top Cylinder Oiler that my Great Grandfather invented. Ill have to get some pictures of it and the patent. It was intended to inject oil into the intake to lubricate the valves and tops of the pistons. When my dad was in his 20's and racing he came over one day and modified one to inject a mist of water, they installed it on my dads rail car and had good success with it.

Not sure if the top oilers used a Ventury to meter the mist. My Waterinjection is much more sophisticated than I thought. It´s more like a little carb with a float, emulsifying tube, metering screws different jets and all.

I got it installed now and was able to advance the spark a bit more than usual on pump gas.

You can feel it when it comes in above 2000 rpm. The sound of the engine changes slightly and it runs smoother with more response.

I don´t have any mileage figures yet, but I keep you guy informed.

Frank

P.S. here is a Airforce research paper of WWII when they tested water injection for those bombers. http://www.turbotuning.net/Artikel/naca-wr-e-264.pdf