Inliners International Forums General Discussion MOPAR More Old racers

Hi folks
I stumbled on to this site.. some nice pictures on an early Plymoth track car. looks like a risky business!

http://winfield.50megs.com/McCord/Spencer/Cipell_Plymouth.htm
Leif

thanks, Leif

I love old photos like that. Proves that not all old racers chose Henry's V-8s.

You think OSHA would approve of that sucker and the driver's lack of protective gear?

We had quite a few of them, but there were more Terraplanes than Chrysler products on our tracks overall. Ford, of course, was plentiful.



Ted Harris at an early post-war around the houses event in Western Australia. The car was built by Clem Dwyer using Plymouth chassis and running gear.

It still races in its original form in Historic racing today.

Here's another one:
A Chrysler 70 based car that looks all business.

http://winfield.50megs.com/Cowley/13Oct28.htm#tom

Leif,
I see you're in Oakland. My location is on the corner of 46th ave. and colesium way. Where abouts are you?
EV

I'm told this was a sweet handling car, Ford suspension, Vauxhall 4-speed gearbox, little flathead six with twin carbies:



Fifth in the Australian Grand Prix of 1951 (was running third) in its first outing.

Wow! That's an extremely credible placing for a flathead six.

Basically it was, I think, because he was one of the early people to identify the best means to obtain faster lap times...

Make the car handle, then worry about power later!

I've taken another step... last week my trailer brought this home to roost:





It's a 230 engine from a mid-fifties De Soto, as I understand it. It's from an Australian production car and is missing only the distributor, which is an easy-find deal. It uses a Lucas unit there and a Lucas starter, which means it has a ring gear to suit the Lucas starter. I can find these things.

The reason for me tracking this down is so I can make a replica of this car, the picture above having disappeared:



This is the fifth place car in the 1951 Australian Grand Prix, builder and driver was Barry Ranford and it had a Vauxhall 25hp 4-speed gearbox between the flathead six and the Ford rear axle. Another Ford axle was fitted up front, the brakes were from 1940-48 Ford, as were the wheels, the chassis was a tube fabrication.

Here's something different...



A picture of second owner Maurie Maurice and his helper, Hugo Ragosini, changing plugs. No doubt a posed photo, but it gives me some good idea of the engine bay... I am going to access the original of this photo.

It wasn't at all unusual in those days to build racing cars with quite mundane parts. 'Run what you brung' was very much the style of things in what were austere times of living. Similar cars were seen all over America in pre-war and early post-war days. Great days!

Later, unfortunately, the car was fitted with a flathead Ford V8, it still drove through the Vauxhall box as far as I know.



Here's another similar car, built on a Plymouth base:



So... I have the Vauxhall gearbox, I have my engine, I can find the shock absorbers and make the chassis and body. Now I just need to track down those Ford brakes... axles are easily found.

Nice pictures! I really like the tires. Is that a tube Ford axle? I would think that the trans and engine would be the toughest parts to find, so the rest should be easy!
Are these vintage track cars raced there?

The bottom pic is all Plymouth, so that's not a tube Ford axle...

The axles, front and rear, of the car I want to build are simply just as Ford made them from 1933 or whatever to 1948. The brakes were changed in 1940 to hydraulic and the stud pattern became the same as the F100... rather than having the wheel studs out on the perimeter of the brake drum.

These brakes are what's now hard to find here. Are they easy there?

Yes, these types of cars are raced here and participate in a lot of street demonstrations and the like. I would also make up cycle fenders for mine as it is made like a 2-seater and use it on the road.

I have one of those Mopar tube axles that I want to use on the Bonneville car. It's on a trailer now.
There are repo brake sets from Speedway. The ones I have are for a future '26 Chevy roadster project. The juice brakes are getting pricey here too. Spindles and brakes from '49-"54 F1s will fit those front axles. I like the looks of the '36-'39 wide lug wheels. They were used in racing here a lot because they were strong, light and plentiful. The trouble is they were all 16".

A guy named Marty Strode was building and racing vintage track roadsters in Washington or Oregon a few years back. I haven,t heard about him lately. The cars I saw had Chevy & GMC 6s and Flathead V8s.

When you say there are repo brakes from Speedway, do you mean the Ford brakes?

I don't know, I have never looked into this properly, but are the spindles the same for the '36-'39 cars as for the '40-'48? I believe they are somewhat prone to cracking, so I wonder if anyone makes replacements of those?

The really ironic thing is that I once had a set of fronts, with rims, lined up for $40. I couldn't find the guy at a swap meet so he took them home, now he can't find them!

The F100 stuff sounds interesting, do they look similar?

I might just explain here... this is how the rules are about building replicas such as this.

Basically, you can't build an exact replica. This is to prevent people passing off cars as being the genuine article when they're not. The term used is 'in the likeness of' and applies to cars we're allowed to build using components, technology and methods used up to 1940... with an allowance to use immediate post-war stuff if it's the same.

If someone can prove an original car has definitely been destroyed, with no hope of resurrection, then they can apply to build an exact replica, but this requires going through paperwork and tests unimaginable to mortal man.

As cars built 'in the likeness of' cars of the era are not allowed to use fabricated chassis, they must be built using a period production chassis (however modified), my plan is to make the car as close as I can to the original, but use old chassis rails to make up the frame rather than the square steel tube fabrication Barry Ranford welded up.

So it wouldn't really matter if I got a little off-course with the brakes, even though I don't want to. If the F100 stuff fits, and I can't find the sedan stuff (which must get scrapped by the ton by hot-rodders fitting disc brakes!), then that might be the way to go. Or maybe I could graft Mopar brakes on there... from something like a '39 Chrysler. Might that work?

Anyway, this is a fun project which has seen me invest a grand total of $180 so far. Time is unimportant, it all began in 1977 after all, and it keeps my brain a little more active revisiting it every so often. But with that engine sitting in my trailer it's sort of taking on a more positive feel.

These guys make the Lincoln backing plates that were common on many race cars of the day. http://www.wilsonweldingandmachine.com Their are a few other companies that make new spindles and they came in stainless and the regular forged units. The stainless ones are on Don Ferguson's roadster and when polished look like jewelry.

Ray, Here is a link to Speedway. Their kits are direct replacement I think, but brand new. They are not cheap! They also have spindles. At least from '36 I think will bolt right up. Henry was waiting for the patent to run out on hydraulic brakes and was had been ready to go with them when it ran out in '39. My first car was a '38 Ford Coupe with cable brakes. When I converted it to hydraulics I changed backing plates and used wide lug drums. All holes needed to mount brake lines and E-brake cables were already there. I didn't have to drill a single hole. Previsions For pedals and master cylinder were in place. With the pickup parts I think you use the pickup spindles and brakes on the car axle. The brakes look similar but are more modern Bendex type I believe.
A few years ago you would be right to think that what wasn't used from a stock car was scraped, but now those parts are valuable and are sold to support the project. Rich guys buy museum quality cars to have someone else build them a "rat rod" ( a term I hate ) Whole rolling chaises are removed and sold. Oh well. It sounds like a fun project but lots of rules. Im still reading, rereading and making notes in the Bonneville rule book. Tom

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/m/945_Street-Rod-Drum-Brake-Kits-Ford.html

Well, with prices like those I'll keep looking for something else!

Thanks for the links, guys, very educational... and you never know, when I do need them I might well have to go there. But there's a lot of project between now and then!

Check out the tech files on the HAMB. There is some good info there on all of the Ford running gear stuff. I've got some magazine article on the brakes I'll try to find. Tom

Thanks Tom... look forward to seeing what you've got...