Inliners International Forums General Discussion AMC/JEEP 196 Nash OHV

Does anybody know anything about the 196 OHV nash six? I had come across one before in a Rambler and the owner claimed it had a factory forged crank. Could this be true? I only ask because I've seen a nice 63 Rambler Classic and was just wondering if it would be capable of anything but gutless gas mileage.

Here is a remarkable source of basic information for these vehicles.

http://www.amcyclopedia.org/node/59

See also

http://amcrc.com/feature/07_2006.html

http://amcrc.com/oct05feature.html


God's Peace to you.

d
Inliner #1450

I had a '63 American a couple of years ago. The 196 engine can be described as lethargic, at best. It did get fair fuel mileage, but was buzzy at highway speeds without an OD. My crankshaft pulley/harmonic balancer came apart and it was next to impossible to find another one. I ended up paying $200 for a used one. The water pump went bad and I got one from junk yard, which wasn't much better. NAPA, and the other parts store in town never did find me a rebuilt one. Disgusted, I sold the car, before I thought about getting a 232, or 258 engine for it. A 5-speed transmission with a nice one of the newer engines would have made a really nice car out of that sucker.

well the price is right maybe I should pick it up and swap in a 4.2 stroker...is that possible? I'd like the 63 styling but I need a good family car too...mileage and power, (possible small camper).
I been push into the corner on a couple of other projects and so I need something to make my own. I had a 52 chrysler but I ran into family trouble on that one...so I needed to find an "unrelated" car.

52,

With enough persistence, skill and resources, you can put about any engine in anything. However, I assume you need a fairly easy, but rewarding project that you can have fun with, while keeping peace in the family.

I can only tell you that I regret letting my little Rambler American get away from me. At the time, I had a Model A with no intention of selling it. However, I met a fellow with enough money to change my mind and the A-bone is gone.

If I had the Rambler today, I'd go with a mildly built 258 and adapt a 5-speed. (I've heard that Ford 5-speed transmissions are almost a bolt-up)

I'd definitely get a different rear end........the original Rambler rear end, with it's tapered axles and weak differential, is junk.

Build a good solid engine, with a mild cam, paying close attention to the breathing and lower end. (A high-pressure oil pump is not necessary, here, just good factory clearances and attention to detail....and a new pump just to ensure dependability)

Once you got it up and running, you could make subtle changes, one at a time, until you are satisfied with it's performance.

The 258s, with some modifications to the exhaust system, like dual headers and dual free-flow mufflers, along with a less restrictive intake and carburetion, really brings these engines to life.


There should be plenty of room to put about any modern six in the car with a minimum of effort. Even Ford and Chevy sixes could be a choice and they may be easier to get parts for.

If I wanted a lot of power, I'd consider the 300 Ford , or 292 Chevy sixes.

Just some thoughts from an old fart, who let too many good ones get away.

I like the ideas...something simple and reliable...and most of all a sraight six....
I don't know why, maybe you do, but these have always been my favorite type of engine....if it hadn't of been for the power hungry fifties and sixties...how different would our inline sixes be? or how should inventive independents modified the six to make increadable power....IE the 413 mopar six of lore.

Hey! I just happen to be hacking on Rambler 195.6 OHV's now. I'm an inliners member, just signed up to the forum yesterday.

I can tell you some stuff about that motor. I've built a half dozen motors, only one mild performance, but I'm otherwise a decent wrench.

I like this motor, but I'm not blind to it's downsides.

The 195.6 OHV (there's a flathead version) is a brick sh*thouse of a motor. Crank and rods ARE forged. It's only 4 main bearings, but if you even glance at the bottom end, it's insanely overbuilt. That's not a weak point.

I can state with some confidence that the alleged reliability problems with this motor are 100% maintenance. They're all old; they were in economy cars; it was an old design in the era of V8's; therefore none of them got treated well; and everyone "hates" Ramblers.

It needs head retorquing on a regular basis which no one did and surprise, leaks and cracked heads.

The head is the weak point from a performance POV. It's a cast-in, trough-style intake (sound familiar?). The exhaust travels a fair distance through the head, transferring a lot of heat. Valves are small, but not crazy small. The ports don't seem too badly small or twisty otherwise. A turbo would solve the intake side problems, but might worsen the exhaust heat issue. But I'm a bit conservative and no expert.

It's a partial-flow oiling system; there is a full-flow filter oil pump for 65? that bolts on, but it hits the chassis on eary Rambler AMericans. HOWEVER I have a junk pump here and worked out that simply drilling the pump side for two AN fittings would easily allow a "remote" filter to fit in. Oil pump is external. I'll hack the junk (very badly rusted) pump to test.

The exhaust manifold is a plain old log, but actually a pretty free-flowing design, with three simple flat two-hole flanges so making headers would be simple. Exh ports are paired 1-2, 3-4, 5-6. Firing order is 1 5 3 6 2 4.

Uses a Ford style starter. The manual trans version of this motor is an exact bolt-up to the later AMC six, 64-71, bellhousings, clutches, trannies. (Post-72 AMC consolidated 6 and 8 patterns). The one oddity is that the automatic cars have a different crank butt! There's a lump on the end that needs to get removed on a lathe, then a manual flywheel would fit. I have a NORS shortblock here that is an auto crank so I'll be doing the lop-off and could let you know how that goes :-)

Oh yeah -- this engine is SMALL! It's heavy, but short! Like 9" shorter than a 232. Really. And narrow. That's why the 232 or V8 won't fit in the early Americans without substantial metal hacking.
The front of the motor is ordinary. I've heard reports of harmonic balancers rotting out, but NEW ones are available now. $120 or so.


The ignition is a Delco Remy. I'm playing with it now. I have a 195.6 ohv in my 63 American, that I commute to work in, 90 miles a day on the 405 in Los Angeles (yeah, that's as weird as it sounds). (3 speed with OD) After driving it 6 months I realized... I've never heard it ping!

It's set up with 21 degrees TOTAL spark advance, at speed! Unbelievable. Damn right it won't ping! I'm currently running it at 36 degrees total advance, it's quite happy. I got it to ping, once, climbing a hill, shifting into 3rd.

Replying to my own post, that's a bad sign.

Just wanted to add, I just started on a "performance" head for this motor. This week I will tear down and boil out the good head I've got and start documenting it. I don't know anyone around here (Los Angeles) who does head work that I can afford to look at it with an eye towards what might be done to improve flow and heat.

I've got ignition pretty much under control (pertronix and lots of advance).

I have a Howell TBI kit, and will fit it to the head. I hope it's not too much flow for this motor and the maps work out.

Last, I want to work out an exhaust system. Maybe just the longest three pipes I can fit into a simple collector.

Tom, years ago I mildly hopped up a 196 in a 62 American convertible. I replaced the intake plate with one I fabricated to take 2 MG SU carbs. They were mounted to 90 degree elbows welded to the plate. Ran OK but I think the stock 2 bbl intake from the 138 horse engine ran as good. Offy used to make a manifold that used 2 stock 1 bbl carbs. This engine did respond well to a 2 inch exh pipe and free flowing muffler. I also had a flathead with a 55 statesman 2 carb aluminum high comp. head. Not really worth the effort but looked neat. Swapping in a 232/258 into a 196 car is a hassle. Did it in a 65 American. Had 2 of them . One came with the 232 the other had the 196. Quite a difference in Radiator location and motor mounts. I swapped a 401 into one easier than a 232. I would think a 196 with a turbo is the way to go. Forged crank and rods stock. Piston walls very thick. Could handle lots of boost and probably stay together. Mike

And Desktop Dyno software agrees with your reality! :-)

Yeah, the large mass and long stroke kinda limit it, and I can see the exhaust probably strangles it. I'm still running some old replacement rusty exhaust now, it'll fall off soon then I'll go big as I can with a good muffler, probably Summit like I did on my Hornet. Flow can't hurt!



Yeah, in the pre-64 Americans, the new six is 9" too long! That old Nash motor is SHORT!! Narrow too. Pretty much no choice in the matter.

My 63 Classic came with a 195.6 OHV aluminum, I stuck a
'70 232 in it, with a '64 crossmember, and redrilling the mounts 1" forward.



I wonder about head sealing. As you probably know this motor has a history of leaky heads and blown headgaskets. I'm willing to chalk most of that up to poor maintenance, they are all 45 years old at the newest. But there's not many headbolts, and they DO require retorquing.

But even 4 - 6 psi would make that sucker go! Even 150, never mind 170, hp in that tiny little car would be QUITE pleasant.

PS: We found pictures of your 258 hot rod. VERY NICE!!! Clean machine! Really nice install job there. How are you dealing with carb fuel pressure equalization?

Tom, fuel pressure equalization is not a problem with the draw through carb. I am running an electric fuel pump though. When I ran a Harley S&S carb on motor it would only handle about 2 pounds pressure. I used a regulator that I modified with boost pressure on top of diaphram to give full fuel pressure under boost. I was worried that small float bowl would empty at high speed. I broke pistons 4 times at the drags before giving up and installing an AMC 401 in the 65 American. When I rebuilt the turbo 6 for my roadster I used a 4 bbl carb. After I finally sorted out a hesitation problem the 6 runs great now. Thanks for the compliment on my set up. Mike

Oh I'm an idiot. I saw draw-through in yr photos, but thought/wrote pull-through. I know the difference, it was a thinko.