Inliners International Forums General Discussion Hi Performance MSD Crank Trigger

Has anyone adapted a MSD crank trigger ignition to their Inliner
If so were there any good advantage to doing it a d was it labor intensive?

Only advantage I'm aware of is positive ignition timing without any slop from timing sets of any kind or cam twist.

As for difficulty of install, if you use a balancer that will accept SBC pulleys you should be able to bolt the trigger wheel on, then the hardest part would be making a solid enough mount for the magnetic pickup.

I haven't used MSD's setup, the ones I have used ( SDS EFI ) said to make the mount for the trigger strong (rigid) enough to jack up the engine with, without damage (bending) of the mount.

Not all that difficult if there are any unused mounting bolt holes anywhere close on the engine.

Mighty 6 has one on his engie set up.

http://www.mighty6.com/gallery3/d/70-2/DSC00153.JPG

http://www.mighty6.com/gallery3/d/80-2/DSC00173.JPG

I have considered running one myself. i will most likely pruchase one sometime early next year after i get off the dyno

Also, i think you need to run a distributor with a locked advance.

Just curious if your close to doing some dyno tests?

MBHD

If your going to go through the headache of installing a trigger wheel, then have you considered go to coil on plug ignition?

2 ways to do this ...

1) Ford EDIS-6 and run wasted spark. No Distributor required - just a stub shaft to run the oil pump. Its a 8 wire hookup

Power to un-switched 12V
Power GND
ignition switch input to the EDIS module
signal gnd.
PIP (tach output from the EDIS)to MS and your tachometer
SAW input from MS to the EDIS module
2 VR crank trigger sensor wires to the EDIS module

All the parts to do the job except the MS can be found in mid-90's 3.8L Taurus (plenty of them around) for under $50. The MS adds $270.

Bonus of this method the engine will start and run at 10* BDTC without the MS attached - just the EDIS module. These things are nearly bullet proof.

Yard parts:

EDIS-6 module
EDIS-6 coil pack
spark plug wires (just for the boots and terminals)
36-1 timing wheel(ford escort - real easy to get off)
Ford crank VR sensor
Get as much of the EDIS wiring harness as you can.

Locally this is $50 in the u pull it yard.

The only other connection you need to make between the engine and the MS is a vacuum hose to the intake. Provides the manifold pressure.

2) Coil on plug. look at the video of Gary Harts turbo jimmy and you see what it looks like.

The difference here is the MS box is running the LS series coils directly - its slightly harder to set up but less parts to install.

So parts to do this:

6 LS type coils and spark plug leads
Ford 36-1 trigger wheel same as above
Ford VR crank sensor
MS

Connection

+12 switched to each ign coil
power ground from each coil to engine block
signal ground from each coil to MS
coil trigger wire from MS to each coil
2 VR crank sensor wires to the MS.
+12V switched to the MS
GND to the MS
Vacuum hose from the intake to the MS.

This is a bit cleaner under hood install.

again all the parts except the MS are junkyard parts. $50 or less.

Trade off

No MSD box ($200)
No special MSD coil ($50)
No MSD crank trigger. ($$ ??) guess $80
No distributor cap or rotor to go wrong.

Plus side
Much better spark since you have more than one coil it can produce more energy than one coil can even with a MSD box
Electrically much quieter - MSD boxes are noisy critters.
Cost wise its about even money, but the wow factor is huge for COP.

Oh by the way if you do this later you will be ready to do a fuel conversion to EFI since the MS will be there - just no fuel control. It doesn't know nor care that its not running the fuel side of the engine.

december

Quote:[ Nexxussian]Only advantage I'm aware of is positive ignition timing without any slop from timing sets of any kind or cam twist.]


In my view only timing chains have slop that is why V8s use crank triggers, also there is no cam twist effect since the dist. gear is after 1# so cam twist does make any difference between the two types; that a crank trigger will help.

But a big question in my mind is on an inline you use a balancer to help with harmonics, the hub is oscillating back and forth so isn't the timing changing all the time on an Inline motor with a crank trigger?

Harry

Harry,

You have a valid point here, the problem remains or may get worse if your running the timing out of a dist. - there are 2 sets of gear back lash + the chatter the oil pump puts back into the dist. shaft. One would think all this will change the timing. For a low state tune engine it might be hard to discern. For a high output motor that is sensitive to small tuning changes its probably measurable on a inertial engine dyno.

On the 4200 GM knew of this problem and place the crank timing wheel between #5&6. My guess is they determined that this was as close to the neutral point in the crank when the TC mass is taken into consideration.

efi, Another good point for the 4200, If I were younger or rich, this is the motor to build. I only wish it had a steel block like the Supra.

Also if the crank moves two degrees the cam only moves one.

My point is everyone spends their dollars early on with the frills and not on the basic things that make the most HP for the cost.

Harry