Inliners International Forums General Discussion Blown and Injected JED Turbo- The time has come....intercooler

Fellow inliners,

Good morn! JED and turbo'd inliner are doing great for the most part. I have been cruising and dealing with a heat issue.

When it just gets warmed up, it runs great. AFR's are right on, great power surge in transitions, idle to boost. The issue is when I am running it for awhile and it is at full temp (hot) The AFR's are always rich (10) and runs like a dog. Once you get the boost up and near WOT it clears out, but the transitions are lazy. I am thinking its a heat soak or fuel issue. Any thoughts?

I was looking at it this morning trying to wrap my head around an intercooler setup. I am thinking, clock the turbo 180 deg and put the intercooler between the grill and radaitor support and come out the other side.

Since I am new to intercooling, would this one work?:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CXRacing-Univers...=item4cfcc5147c

The big question is, Is it worth the trouble of doing this????

Thanks,

Boucher'

Boucher,

How is the carb setup, power valves, jets etc. amount of boost, is it a holley carb? sounds like a power valve issue. How is the power valve referenced. I don't think you need an intercooler unless over 15 psi.

Harry

Current setup:

- HEI, lightest springs, initial 10 deg
- Holley 2300- 2bbl- 350cfm- 61 jets, 8.5 PV (non-referenced), white Accel pump cam
- wastegate set at 8psi
- mechanical fuel pump- boost referenced

So I assume I'ts a blow through, therefore you need a 2.5 power valve to hold the fuel back until the very last moment. Also you need to enlarge the power valve fuel channels and lean down the jets, but keep the total area the same since it runs good under boost.

Harry

This intercooler would be a better choice.

Bar & plate design,= (better), a bit bigger/thicker core & is approx same dimensions you posted on the other intercooler.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Bar-Pl...=item3a61f3a117

I would definately install a intercooler, they are inexpensive & no reason not to install one.
You will feel an improvemnet over what you have now, especially after the engine/turbo gets heat soaked.

My Bros old 91 Merc Capri turbo had a intercooler from the factory & it made just 6 psi stock boost pressure.

If you run 8 psi now w/out an intercooler, you could possibly run 10-12 psi w/an intercooler.

Listen to Harry,A.K.A. Turbo-6 about carb suggestions.


MBHD

Turbo-6,

I will bump down the PV and see. I did drill my PVCR to .078", so I could bump the jets down a size but my cruise AFRs are good. One adjustment at a time.

Thanks

Example of a inexpensive intercooler pipeing kit.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5-UNIVERSAL-TU...ae4ddc1&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Bar-Pl...=item3a61f3a117

So for $189.00 , you could have a intercooler & plumbing, does not sound like much huh?

That is why I say, there is no reason not to intercool your turbo.
MBHD

Boucher,
As you know,the hotter an engine gets the less fuel it wants, I thought you said when you were at temp your A/F was 10:1 too rich, but at full boost it ran good ?

If it goes fat just at the transitition it could be pumps or squirters a white cam is very little fuel.

Could be the high speed air bleads are too small and goes to the mains too soon, the air bleeds control the timing of the fuel, but try this very last.

Harry

I did swap the power valve out to a 4.5 and put some size 59 jets in. It runs a little better, still a bit rich. Onward and upward!

Boucher'

Harry aka Turbo-6, I have to ask. Did you attend the HAMB drags at Smokin' Mo-Kan drag way last year? I have a good buddy of mine from Webb City and was doing back flips over a turbocharged car that looks just like your avitar. He called and told me all about it.

I grew up in Pittsburg, KS and most of my family lives in STL. Balwin, off Big Bend RD.

Boucher'

Boucher, Yea that was my 37 at the hamb drags, Balwin is a little north and west of the shop, we are near Grants Farm the Bush's old homestead.

Harry

*Update- The 4.5 PV was opening too late and causing a bad lean transition stumble. A 6.5 PV is almost perfect.

I dropped in 6 new NGK plugs and checked the timing. It was at -1deg btdc! That's why it felt sluggish. I bumped it to 8 deg and it runs much better.

The tuning seems endless....

MBHD,
I do not have any pictures, but I will try to explain.

You remove the power valve and cut off the spring so there is about 1/8" of the shaft sticking out this is what the new spring sits on. then you make a dome that looks like a smooth beehive this is attached to the fuel side of the metering block the dome has a hole in it about 3/16" to 1/4" dia for the fuel to go through the normal PVR still control the amount of fuel.

Then a spring drops into the cavity of the dome and the power valve pushes on the spring, you change springs to change the rate of the opening of the power valve.

The cavity that had vacuum to release the powervalve now has pressure to push open the valve.

Hope this helps.

Harry

Hey Harry,

This would make a good tech article if you could write it up step-by-step with photos.

Tim

Tim
stumbled across this:
http://www.motorsportsvillage.com/modifycarb.html
Might be another variation??
Woody

Woody,

On a blow through carb you don't need to modify the power valve reference. However if you want to control the fuel better you do that modification, and change the power valve as I stated in my post.

The modification in your post is for a draw through carb, this is how you get the correct reference to the power valve, if you don't do this the power valve shuts off the fuel from PVR channels because the original power valve works off the loss of vacuum to open the valve and on a draw through at top RPM you can get a vacuum under the carb.

Hope this somewhat clear.

Harry

Thanks Harry
Woody

Boucher,

any updates?

MBHD

I drove up to the Hot Rod Reunion in Bowling Green and had a great talk with a couple of turbo guru's and decided to pull the trigger. After MANY measurements, sketches, and searching I figured it out. The install was not that hard. I purchased everything from ebay for $200 to my door. 2.5"- 8 piece- black powdercoated intake piping and a 28x9x2.75" Bar and Plate intercooler from CXRacing. Both products were very good quality.

Fit



Upper mount tabs

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-T1p8p...o/uppertabs.jpg

Bay Shot

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-hU3RM.../outsidebay.jpg

Installed!

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-QlEkI...illshotwide.jpg

Looks nice!

After talking with the turbo guru's what did they have to say?,,,

This is what I keep telling guys to do, (install a intercooler) there cheap, no reason not to use one, not that hard to install either.

God job BTW.

Did you get a chance to drive it?

First impressions after the install?

MBHD

Thanks Hank, I do remember you being a big advocate for one.

Those guys just said that it really cuts the intake charge temp down a good bit. I was giving them my heat soak/loss of power symptoms. They said the intercooler would solve all of my problems. Too many benefits to not run one.

Impressions: with the same wastegate/mbc setup, it hit 6 psi, not the 10psi like before. I have only driven it once, but it feels stronger at 6 psi, than it did at 10psi. Noted by my first 2nd gear scratch ever.

Boucher,
That's cool. & thanks for your initial, but limited (not much driving) feedback on your intercooler install.

Now you will be able to do a bit more tuning, maybe run more timing, get the boost back up to 10, maybe more, just be careful.

I just don't get why most all turbocharging books, say typically if you are running 6 psi or so or less, there is not benefit from installing a intercooler.

Maybe the cost was so great for an intercooler way back it just was not justified to have minimal gains?

I still say, bah! to all that BS that say it's not needed. Anytime you can cool your intake charge, do it!

MBHD

Nice. Congrats on the 2nd gear chirp. Is that with the 700R4 or the manual?

This post is quite a bit different. I had an air to water intercooler in my salt flat car. The tank held 3 bags of ice and the temp went from 60 degrees up to 105 degrees running 5 miles across the salt flats.

Sound like you have some problems going on the flats?

Did you find out what caused the higher temps?

Or is that normal operation running for 5 miles?

How much boost were you running?

MBHD

Hank, we were making 17 psi boost and I thought that was pretty good for the IAT to b only 105 when the temp outside was near 100.

That is pretty good & for 5 miles

If there is a next time, try injecting some methanol & watch your intake temps go down to 60 degrees F

I use Julios alky system.

http://www.alkycontrol.com/info/history.html

MBHD

Hank, that car is long gone, will not be a next time.