Inliners International Forums General Discussion Engines 250 motor still overheating.

I wonder if I have the vacuum line hooked up wrong.

It is pretty easy to tell.
Pull vacuum line off of the distributor while running. If it has suction at idle, then it is LIVE. If it is live, you may also notice a change in the idle at that time,

So when I pulled the hose from the distributor while the car was running absolutely nothing happened. It continued to idle okay and it didn't seem like there was any suction on the hose.

I would suggest finding a live vacuum port and get it hooked to the dist.

I will try that first thing in the morning. Thanks for the tip.

So apparently my vacuum was live and working fine. I had my buddy set the timing back to about 6 and he set the carb a bit more richer and that motor still heats up pretty quick. We still don't see any water movement on top of the radiator while it's running either.

Try drilling a very small hole in the thermostat. In the outer ring. This will let it burp. Then hot water can travel around the T stat easier.

It's crazy, but I have already done that. I also cut the top portion of the thermostat that goes from one point to the other. Something this old timer suggested I do. And yet this isn't doing it either. I'm tempted to buy a new carb as well as a new radiator cap. Two things I haven't changed yet. And I know it's almost impossible to be the carb but at this point I'm lost.
As far as the cap, I believe I'm running a 7lb but this motor recommends a 16lb.

I believe you had the head pressure tested but did you check the flow? This head has been on both blocks. Is it possible something is blocking the water jackets in the head?

You should see water flowing at some point in the warming process. Start it with the cap off and see at what point hot stuff come out of the radiator.

Does water flow through the radiator? Put the cap on disconnect both hoses and see if it runs out the bottom hose as fast as you can put it in the top.

With both hoses disconnected from the radiator and the thermostat removed put water in the top hose and see if it comes out the botton as fast as you are putting it in the top.

Get new radiator cap. Hang it in the garage. Drive a new car under it.

So I don't know if you remember reading earlier but my motor is new, and so it's my radiator. I have flushed the heater core already twice. I haven't done the radiator because like said I just bought it so I'm assuming it's good. I also bought a new radiator cap yesterday and that also didn't do it.
I never see any water movement on top of the radiator while it's idling. Even when it gets to temperature. I do see bubbles when I try to burp the radiator but eventually they go away and the flow just stops.

Is it the same head or did you get a new head with the new engine? If it is the same head that is about the only part that has been there through the whole mess.A clogged water jacket?

This is a long block that I got. By the way I believe I might have found the issue. I removed the thermostat all together and it ran for about 20 minutes just in the garage idling. It never got any hotter than 178 to 180. So do I assume I had 2 bad thermostats? I may just run it without one.
The car has no heater and I never drive it in the winter. In fact I think I drive it about 15 times a year lol.
I hope this was it!

Glad you have found the problem. I would never run a street car without a thermostat. There are many reason to have one.
Engine will get warm enough to get rid of condensation
Engine parts are designed with thermal expansion at certain temps

Agree with you, I rather have one. But this isn't a street car. I only drive it in the summer and just a few times. Maybe once the good weather goes away I'll look into putting one back on. I still wonder why 2 thermostats would be bad or is something else.

You can always test them be for you install them. I normally do Just put them in a pot of water as the water becomes hot enough you will see them open then just take them out lay them aside and watch them close as they cool then you know they are working. You can keep a eye on the temp with a infrared thermometer.

I have done those tests on thermostats plenty of times. It works pretty good. My intention right now is to drive it without one and see how it goes. I did borrowed a thermometer to check the temp. If everything seems fine, I will continue to drive it and eventually try a different thermostat.

I WOULD LIKE TO THANK EVERY MEMBER WHO HAS TAKING THE TIME THESE PAST COUPLE OF WEEKS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS WITH MY MOTOR.

If you can run without a thermostat, you have flow issues.

Why is that?

lack of proper flow.

If it does not work with the right thermostat then there is a problem. If it sorta works with no thermostat there is a problem. It may work good enough for your needs but.........

I drove it today for about an hour. I had it at 55 mph at one point. Never got above 140 or 150. Drove great. When I got home I pulled her in the garage and checked everything with a thermometer and the only thing that was damn hot was the exhaust manifold. Everything else seemed warm but not overly hot.

I should have know that it was too good to be true. It drove great for over an hour 2 days ago. And tonight the temp started going up again to about 200. And that's without the thermostat. I just don't know where else to look.

If it was me I would be pissed enough to take it to a lonely spot, pour a couple of gallons of gas in & on it, toss a match and walk away. But I'm too bullheaded for the easy way out so I'd get three pieces of paper and put a heading on each one. #1 Cooling System, #2 Ignition/Timing, #3 Fuel Delivery. On each sheet I'd list EVERY component/aspect of that system that could effect the temperature. I would put a check mark by each component that has been changed since the very beginning and a X by every component that has not been changed. I would lay them in front of me and ask,"WHAT THE $%#@? Study them, compare and make notes. Have all of my information & experience right in front of me in one spot. Form new questions note other peoples ideas scratch out what did not work.

At this point I don't think it is in the cooling system. Though there is a ton of interchangeable parts in this engine series not all similar parts are the same. I am thinking about timing gear covers & timing marks on crank pulleys/dampeners. Could there be a miss match here? Just a question. I would turn the engine to TDC according to the timing mark and check the best I could by watching the rockers. If not sure I'd pull the head and make sure the timing mark is right. A little bore camera might help here. If not I'd make a correct mark on the pulley. I'm an old guy, I'd find a points distributer and make sure the points were opening at the right time. I would time it the old fashioned way with the advance disconnected and turning the distributer back & forth till you find the sweet spot. No lights, no gauges, no electronics. Maybe not perfect but close enough to run well & not over heat.

On the fuel side once I was sure the timing was OK I'd start reading the spark plugs. I'd find a lonely stretch of highway where I could make some runs and pull over and pull a plug and check its color. I might set it slightly rich to remove any doubt of over heating due to being lean.All of this can be cleaned up and set or be put back once the problem is found.

If none of this helped I'd find the guy I got the car from a kick his ass.

Beater of the Pack, thanks for the good laugh. At this point I need it and I don't have any hair to pull lol. All good advice. Thank you.

I can't think of anything you haven't covered. When you figure it out it is going to be something basic. Not simple to we would have found it but basic. Have you changed the water pump? There is a difference in 292 water pumps and the others I think. Slipping belt or pulley? It has me beat.

I actually have 3 water pumps. All 3 look the same and feel the same as far as the way they turn. So I don't think is that.
I did check my pulley, belt, fan, etc. No slipping that I can tell. I'm hoping to talk to S&J engines tomorrow where I bought the motor.

This is a mystery. I wish I could help. Does it actually boil over? Does it spit out of the overflow?

It does not boil over or even steam. Since I removed the thermostat it has only got up warmer once, around 200 which to me it seems high since the last few times it only got as high as 130-140. I need to take her out tomorrow again and see what it does.

Did it boil over when the gauge showed 130-140? Has it ever popped the radiator cap spit from the overflow tube? If not I'd focus one the temp sender & gauge.

At 140 that thing should look like Old Faithful!

130,140 is still pretty much a cold engine 180-190 is normal. for these older engines. the new stuff runs 200-220 easy.(as normal temp)

It has never boiled over through the overflow and the radiator cap never popped. However, I have changed the gauge as well just to ruled it out. I even moved the cable so it was not close to the manifold.

So my new carburetor arrived. I don't see how to hook up the choke. My current carburetor has one just like this one.
The new carburetor does not have the linkage to attact to the joke spring.
What am I missing? When I search for these on the web it calls as a 1931 elderbrock joke. My intake came like that.
https://quickshare.samsungcloud.com/xndMAg9yGPJm

My current intake with the joke on the intake manifold.
https://quickshare.samsungcloud.com/qCBg8ddzeBKd

My current carb does also have an electric joke. You can see the red wire hooked up to it.

https://quickshare.samsungcloud.com/lgKFHNVXxGB7

Yeah, I was seeing 230-240. It has never boiled over? Why do you think it is over heating? I am going to have to go back to the beginning of this.

Well with the 180 thermostat it should be opening at around that or so. It was getting between 200 and 220. Not boiling over. Without the thermostat, I got it down to about 130 to 140. But just in the last day or so, it got back to 200 which I thought it wouldn't because the thermostat is missing.

Without a thermostat the pump will always keep the coolant circulating. Depending on the volume of coolant the engine may never warm up or it may overheat quickly. The job of the thermostat is to control the flow so the proper volume if coolant spends enough time in the radiator core and cool enough to maintain the engine temp at or near the thermostat rating. In some of my old Ford flatheads I removed the thermostats in the summer and it only overheated when stalled in traffic. I put them back in the winter because it would not get up to a warm enough temp to run well or work the heater. This worked for me but it was not right. If This was mine I just drive it until boiling over became an issue. I would note what temp the gauge shows in different situations and learn how it works. On my '53 Chevy pickup the gauge shows a little less than 180 when normal above 185 it is boiling. It has been this way for 20 years. It rarely boils.

Yeah you're right, I'm just going to continue driving it and keep an eye out on the temperature. I don't believe it will boil over but I will keep a close eye just in case. I should be also installing the new carburetor soon. Hopefully that will help with the way t runs as well.
Thanks Beater of the Pack!

So here's a quick update. I received the new carburetor and we finally finished tunning it last night just in time for tomorrow. I am hosting a car show at work tomorrow and I'll be taking her there. So far the temp is doing good and the carburetor made a huge difference as far as the way its running. I can't say that it helped with the heating issue but I can at least drive it. I will post a few pics of the show.
Thank you again to everyone that helped.