Inliners International Forums General Discussion Engines 1963 Nova Wagon. Worthwhile to swap to a 1977 250?

I have a '63 Nova wagon. It has a 194 six which runs pretty well. Recently, I found a 1977 disco Nova 4 door for $250. If both engines are bone-stock, how much HP will I gain with the 250? Also, what kind of mileage do the 70's 250's get with a stock 1 bbl carb? (see, I want to have my cake and eat it too...power and mileage )

There are a few things I really like about the idea...first, the extra power, second, the electronic ignition, third, the possibility of swapping the A/C system into the wagon as well.

Also, I am sure it will, but I would like to hear it from someone who knows....will it bolt directly to my 1963 powerglide?

It will bolt to the powerglide. You will have to make a small mod for the oil pan to clear the drag link Bt nothing major. The 75-78 250s advertized hp was only 105@3800.79 was 115adv. hp
67-70 was advertzed @ 155 4200 rpms 71 was 145 adv.@4200 72-74 was 100 adv. hp. Your 194 62-67 was advertized @ 120@ 4000-4400 hp depending on the yr.
hope this helps

Ok, that leads me to another question...the way I those massive drops in hp ratings after about '71 were becasue of a new rating system.

The actual hp of the motors didn't really drop by 45 hp between '71 and '72 did they?

The 77 most likely has the integral head; make sure you check the manifold for cracks as it is an issue they are known for.

Now, if you want to have the best of both worlds, replace the 250 head with the one off the 194. This will get rid of the problematic smog head, give you a little more compression and all of your linkages and exhaust will bolt right up. Another thought is if the 77 has a good TH350 it is a simple upgrade, requiring only a little notching of the trans cross member to clear the pan. The length should be the same as the PG, but you will need to add a trans cooler.

The power drop was due to the rating change; there may have been a very minor drop due to the ever changing emissions laws, but no where near 45hp.

Good luck with you project.

A couple of thoughts came to me about the swap.

For the price of an oil pan gasket set why not just swap pans to solve the tie rod issue on the Chevy II instead of massaging the 250 pan to fit?
I think there is a dip stick location difference too. I'm sure Larry can clear this up for you.
Both engines will be out of the car at some point in the swap anyways so it isn't a long or tedious job and a 30 year old engine probably could use a new pan gasket anyhow.

If the 250 did have a TH350 and you want to stay with the Pglide then make sure the flexplates are both the same size and configuration so you don't run into problems with starter alignment and convertor bolt hole locations. Some of the 250's have all 3 starter mounting holes drilled and others are only drilled for either the 153 tooth ring gears or the 168 tooth ring gears. None of this is a major problem but can be a pain when laying on your back under the car and wondering why things don't fit. Easier to deal with when the engine is out of the car.

Whatever method was used to advertise horsepower you're still way ahead with a 250 replacing the 194. Bruce's comment on swapping over the 194 head is a good one to consider not only for the boost in compression but also to eliminate any smog tappings over the exhaust ports, overall a cleaner looking set up.

Thanks for the comments. I suppose that if I swap the head and the oil pan, only those with a highly trained eye will be able to spot the difference.

Also, the TH350 is blown. I may look at a rebuilt one, but the powerglide is working fine and I am on a relatively tight budget.

Thanks again.

There is no need to swap out the oil pan. a Peice of round stock or pipe will take care of the issue. The Drag link Rubs the oil pan But Not to the Point it would put a hole in it. And It is a Lot less of a headack Then to swap the oil pan and to Redrill the block. I have been running the 250 Blocks(& oil pans) in my 64 SS chevyII for well over 17yrs and NEVER once ever rubed a Hole into any Pan. I have started to notch a oil pan For this issue But I have not been able to finish one to the point of testing it in the car. But Now that I now have my New motor Back from the machine shop. Hopfuly I'll get to check this out in the up comming Mos. This Should save a Lot of people a headack of any kind making the change over even easier.

Loyter,
Here are a couple swaps I have done and rough 0-60mph clockings before and after:

63 Nova, 3-on-the-tree, 3.08gear
Swapped 194-1v for 250-1v (NON-integral 250 head):
0-60 was about 13 sec, dropped to mid-10's.
Popped the clutch on the 250 and left 2 black streaks in my driveway. The 194 would never do this.

63 Nova, Powerglide 3.08gear
Swapped 194-1v for 292-1v (again non-integral head)
0-60 was about 16 sec, dropped to about 11 sec.

The bigger sixes really give those Chevy II's kick.

Since the 283-v8 was "banned from Nova production" in 63, I often wished that Chevy would have got clever and put a serious 230 or 292 into the 63 SS. It would have done quite well against Ford's 260-v8. But, hindsight is 20-20, sometimes...

Good luck with the swap, I agree with the other posts - use the head/manifolds/pan/pickup you have, just swap in the 250 block etc.

On reading the Twisted6 post about NOT changing oil pans, I didnt know that, good idea!
Maybe no need to swap pans, just swap the head/manifolds.

Gas Mileage?
I would calculate a drop of a couple mpg with the 250. I dont really check because I am so happy with the 250 vs the 194 but that seems about right. Hard to have it both ways without an overdrive, 200-4r or something fancy.

The 292 is a real dog on gas, uses as much or more than my 283 Nova did. But, it is so much fun to surprise people and then show em the 1-barrel six.......so much torque -

Hello. I've got a question. Will a 250 or a 292 get AT LEAST 12 mpg? That's what my Nova wagon gets now with the stock 194.

Martin

The 292 was never a top dog when it came to getting high MPGs The 250 on the other hand Gave me 16 mpgs NON Stock So 12 should be the Very least it should give you.

Part of the dog problem with the 292 is they were never put in a light weight vehicle that was not meant to haul large loads. My 66 Chevy II had a mild 292 with a 700R4 and 4:10 gears and got ~15mpg It probably would have done better if I kept my foot out of it.

Yes that is true But He Also said he was useing the STOCK Power glide and 99% of all Novas Had What chevy Loved Best Them Dang 3:08 gears. So with your 700R with the Over Drive ,Had NOT been In place I'm sure you wouldn't have seen That same 15 mpgs. And as a Side Note WhenI said Mine wasn't Stock I ment it It was Running a 583-607 Lift cam and A BEEFY 12-1 Or better Compression. But I also was running 87 Cheap Fuel So shutting the car/Motor Down I had to Load the Clutch. But It Also Had The Stock 3:08 gears with a M20 4speed. Offey intake 600 Holley & Headers. With Out a Lead FOOT The best It Got was 16mpgs. Which was better then what the RV style cam did with Much Lower compression and the Power glide Or with the Sag. 3 speed. Which Best Netted about 14 Offey intake Holley 600 & headers.

Larry. Was that 16mpg on the highway or in the city?

Martin

city I don't recall Hwy

Wow. Then something must really be off with my 194.

Martin

Now you also have to remember I'm running a 250 so there is more cubes & hp to move the same weight so it does take less effort to do so.
(ex. it would less effort to move X amount of weight with two pulleys Then it would with only One pulley) Smaller cubes dosen't always mean your going to get better MPGs. But in certain application it does. Bigger isn't always better either. But On the whole It comes down to the combination and driving habits.

Ok. That makes sense then. So my engine is undersized for its application. Sometimes I think just by consciously driving conservatively I'm actually LOSING mileage rather than if I drove a little more agressively. This would also make sense why I can't use my overdrive without losing more mileage.
I smell coffee.

Martin

Thats right Because when your in the OD You are now running below the motors Normal power rpm band. Then when your in OD and you get on it I Bet it's kinda like a dog Not more get up and go till you shift it out of the OD manualy. Did you ever change the rear Gearing when you went to the OD tranny or did you stay with the STOCK rear gear??( no dout 3:08s) If so You may wish to step it up to a 3:40-3:73 gear. this will give you a little more get-up & go off the line and get you closer to the stock cruising power band when in the OD which should?? help your MPGs??

My 194 in a 62 nova got 11 with the 390 holley. Car Craft Mag did what they called there Super Nova a couple of years ago. They bought a 71 nova (Granny car) with a excellent stock 250 and powerglide. They reported 10 mpg before they removed it and gave it to me.

Terry

I recently put a tach in my car. At 65mph in 4th the engine turns at 3300 rpm in 5th its 2250 rpm. That's probably good for a 250 but maybe not a 194. My rear gears are the original 3:36. 3:08s would have been better with the gearing I have in the tranny but of course there would be no reason to use the OD.

Martin