Inliners International Forums General Discussion Drive Train T-5 clutch set up,please help

Hi I am putting a T-5 behind my 235 53 full pressured engine. Decided to go with a 3:08 rear,I think I will get better gas milage that way. Getting closer to completion of project. I need help with the cluch set up. I have a 14 spline 84 t-5. I have read past B-board messages that say to go with a 85 astro van clutch disk, is this the best way to go? If so what pressure plate do I use and flywheel? I need to figure this out so I can also have my engine balanced. If I'm correct you need the clutch assembly along with the crank rods and pistons to properly balance that 235. Is the astro van cluch disk the only option or are there others? Have heard that a 235 3/4 ton truck fly wheel takes an 11 inch disk if this is so where can they be found along with pressure plate? Thanks for any help you can offer, finding this B-board has been very helpful to my project.

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The best T5 info I've found is from Inliner Grant Galbraith at
T5 Conversion

There should be no reason to change flywheels.The clutch is balanced separately from the engine components. My clutch shop says that genuine GM clutches do not need balancing in 99% of the ones thay have installed in 40 years. Aftermarket or rebuilts are a different story, some are so bad they cannot ever be balanced.

Regarding your choice of a 3.08 rear, that will be pretty steep for a 235, although you don't mention what vehicle it's in. with a .73 overdrive 5th that will make your effective final drive a 2.24. Good for MPG but you will be shifting gears a lot. Also your 1st gear acceleration will be pretty meek unless the S10 is one of the 4.03 1st gear T5s. I would shoot for something around 3.73 or 3.90. There are lots of factors to consider in this conversion. Tire size, tranny internal ratios as well as rear end ratio, cam specs etc. to provide good gas mileage and still be in your engines "sweet spot".



[This message has been edited by Jack (edited 07-27-2002).]

If I could put in my two cents worth on the rear ratio or the experience I have with a 235 w/over drive. I have a '55 chevy p/u with a three speed o/d trans. and a 338 ring & pinion. It cruises good,however,, when I try to pass an 18 wheeler and hit his head wind I run out of eng. ( thats in o/d) now a tail wind is a different story, don't know just how fast it will run, came out of Okla.City one day with a tail wind, I was going 85 mph @ half throttle....something to think about.......

Thanks for the feed back on my T-5 conversion I do not have a rear end yet but the info you gave me is pushing me toward a 3:55 ratio. I have been looking at 3:73,3:55 and the 3:08 gear ratios. I have all three lined up just waiting to decide,I was looking at numbers but when you calculate everything into the equation, I know you have to look at the big picture,not just the numbers, and with your feedback it helps to see a little clearer. The one with 3:55 needs to be rebuilt, any ideas or suggestions on where to get parts for rebuild. It's a 56 chevy rear end. My project is a 53 chevy station wagon that is going to have mild engine performance. MY main goal is to get good gas milage because I will enjoy driving it anyway. On a previous post Gearhead suggested a rear end out of 55-57 cars may fit without modifications and it measures just right.

My real dilema is the clutch set up I just came from auto parts store and there is a cluch disk for a astro van for the 4 cyl that is a 9 inch disk, with the 14 spline that will match up with the tranny. Is that cluch disk going to be able to handle my wagon? I did not see the disk for the 6 cyl they were out, I am assuming that it is a 11 inch disk. Do I need the 11 inch disk with the 11 inch flywheel, or can I use the original flywheel and pressure plate,and go with the 9 inch disk? Thanks again for your feedback and help

The pressure plate and flywheel go together (by vintage), the clutch disc could be anything that fits (splines and diameter).
Bellhousing, fork, throwout bearing = same
starter, flywheel, pressure plate = same
tranny, clutch disc = same
(generally speaking)

T5's were used in more that just Chevies. Muskrats and Jeeps did also.

I'm assuming you are using a 6 volt era starter/flywheel??? if so, I would avoid the 11" clutch setup, the pressure plates are difficult to get and when you do find one, chances are it will rattle (remanufactured). it will work, but it sounds like crap. If you really want an 11" clutch, find one from a 55-62 and convert car over to 12 volts. Remember, the 6 volt and 12 volt flywheels have different teeth counts. You shouldn't have any trouble using a smaller diameter clutch.

FYI, you can use a 6 volt starter on 12 volts no problem, if this is an issue for you. Worst case senario, the teeth are just pressed onto the flywheel, and can be swaped around by the machine shop.

I would advise against the 3:08 for same reasons. It will lug alot more and you will probably need to downshift alot more often. If you go with the 55-64 rearend, you can swap between 3:08 3:36 3:56 3:70 4:11 no problem should you change your mind. As for rebuilding, if the gears are rust pitted significantly, pass on it. Otherwise, bearings can be had from any parts house, and if you take it apart, the Timkin numbers are stamped right on them, so just call up the parts house and give them the numbers. You really shouldn't need to go through all that though, these rearends aren't that hard to come by. Patience.

Thanks again for the help. I will not go with the 3:08 rear ratios. The information that I have recieved here has been outstanding, because it comes from people that have alot of experience. I will start with the 5:56 and then change out later if I need to. I have been using the 6 volt starter with the 12 volt system and it works great. I did use a 12 volt starter with my coupe out of a 56 235 engine and it worked with no problems. My plan is to use a 6 volt starter because I think it works better then the 12 volt starter, spins faster and starts the car up well.

I am glad to know that my fly wheel and pressure plate will work, I was hoping I would not have to change them. I don't want to use a 11 inch flywheel unless I have no other choice, and it sounds like I don't need to. I read somewhere that that is what was needeed. The only disk I have seen so far like I said is 9 inches and the disk area is only 1 inch wide, I think the original is about 2 inches wide. I will plan on using the original set up and find a disk that is closest to the original that I can. The only thing that I will have to do next is the drive shaft and I figured I will have to have a shop make me one, unless any one has any ideas. I don't have measurements yet not until I place the rearend in, get my engine from the shop and mount it in place to measure it. Thanks again for the help slvigil53

You should be fine with a 9" clutch, it's not worth the trouble of a new flywheel or trying to re-drill your original flywheel for the 11" clutch pattern. After having an 11" clutch explode I can tell you that they don't like RPM.

Hi-

I have a 83 Z-28 T-5 behind my 292 in a '40 Chevy Coupe. I had a 10.5" flywheel and the original clutch from the Camero and it fit with no problems. I wanted all new components, so a stock CenterForce clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing was purchased and installed with no problem. I was really surprised that it fit perfectly. The 292 starter did not reach so I used a 350 starter and it went right in. The original 1940 clutch linkage worked as is!

Since I have not done this swap with a 9" clutch before, I would also be careful about the diameter of the center hub. I'm assuming it doesn't matter what the diameter is, but you never know. Make sure it won't interfere with the face of the flywheel or the inside diameter of the pressure plate ring.

I happen to have a junk '83 S10 2.8L sitting in the garage with a 14 spline 9" clutch on it. If you need dimensions, let me know.

Since you have one on the floor, what is the length of the input shaft?

The S10 T5 is 7-1/8" from housing face to tip of shaft and requires shortening of the tip and collar for other applications. Not sure about the 4.3L version.

The Camaro V8 T5 (fine spline) is 6-5/8" and should not require shortening. Not sure about the V6 versions.

Thank you I sure would appriciate the dimentions of that s10,it may even work with the set up that I am doing. That could be helpful.

the answer to Kestebs question of how long is 6 1/2 inches from the base of the tranny or should I say the edge where the tranny meets up with the bell housing. to the tip of the shaft, I hope this answers your question.

The disc is 9-1/8" OD with 1-1/2" wide clutch material, and a 5-1/2" OD hub.

Thanks again for the info. I rechecked my clutch and it is 9 1/2 with 1 1/2 and the hub is 5 1/8.I will have to wait until I get my flywheel from the machine shop to check if the 5 1/2 hub will work. Thanks for the info on the flywheel and the teeth. The original one the teeth were all chewed up and I figured I would need a new flywheel anyway. I didn't want to get the wrong one, with the info I have recieved here has been real helpful. I will be able to use the original flywheel because the info you gave me about the teeth. I am able to take the teeth off the flywheel that is off a truck 235 and have them pressed on my original one, they are the same number and are in execllent shape. This is going to work good, I will be able to use the original pressure plate and throw out bearing, and the flywheel after being turned will be just like new. Not to mention that this is going to save me some money, which always helps. My car is gutted and stripped down to bear metal doing body work and then the primer and then paint. I will post a message after project complete to inform how well it is working, engine, clutch set up, and rearend. with all the info I have obtained on the b-board my car should run like a charm. Thanks to all.

Keep looking, you might find a better fitting clutch disc, but it should work if the hub doesn't interfere. By the way, it's from a 4spd S10, not a 5spd.

Just for clarification,
From your last post, it sounds like you haven't tried to setup anything in the chassis yet??? It's my understanding from other postings on this site, that the 49-54 cars require chassis/floorpan modifications to make the newer trannies fit. If it isn't too late, I would try to mock-up the engine/bellhousing/tranny to make sure its all going to work before I paint anything. I don't mean to scare you by this, as I don't have any direct experience with this chassis, only hearsay. Hopefully someone with direct experience will see this and post a reply to verify this. My first rule of building a modified vehicle (from scratch) is to do all modifications, and make sure they work, first, then do the pretty stuff later. Cutting, grinding and welding are not usually compatable with a fresh paint job.
Good luck with it, I would love to see some pictures when you're done.

I have

Opps hit the wrong keys. I run a t-5 in my car with a 2:73 rear gear.The trans was out of a 2.8 s-10 of about 87.(cant tell you the ratios) I used a 9 15/16 disc from a 2.5 jeep and the pressure plate from a stock 10 incher. The pilot shaft needs to have about 3/16 cut off it but it was easy with a die cutter. I also cut the throw out bearing collar to match the same length as the stock trans as i did the pilot. My 235 pulls the gear fine with 235-70r 15s on the rear. It does go like heck but most times its never in O/D unless i am on the highway. Car weighs 3270. Its gets some pretty good milage and i have never had to shift down passing a truck.Running through the hills of PA i think i have to pull it out of overdrive maybe 2 times from the NY border to the Ohio line. I tried it with a 3:90 gear and felt like why did i bother putting and Overdrive in it. At highway speeds it was still spinning pretty good. If you were to tow something i think i would drop to the 3:55 but not if its just highway driven. My 235 is only .030 over with mostly stock stuff other than a carb and good ignition. I balanced the complete motor with the flywheel and clutch plate. The balance was really bad on my 235.The rod weights were all over the place the pistons even worse.I think it was worth the extra 150 bucks to do as it runs very smooth now. Dave

Dave-

I know I've posted this info before, but in case you didn't see it, here it is again.
I have a 1970 292 / .040 overbore to 301 CID., 270 Wolverine Cam, comp cam Rockers, New Stovebolt headers, 3x2 Holley/Webers/electric chokes, Water heated Offey intake, Petronix electronic ignition, electric fan.
I have a '83 Z-28 T-5 tranny with a '68 nova 10-bolt rear with 3:55. It starts with a flick of the switch, has fantastic low end torque, and cruises on the freeway with only a quarter of the pedal used. It tachs at 1850 rpm @ 65 mph. It passes cars on the road like a 250lb Pro Football Fullback pushing you in the back on a tochdown run. I'm not that concerned with milage becase it's not a daily driver and wasn't built for high milage! I get 14 mpg which is reasonable for a 3000lb car with a BIG BLOCK MOTOR!
If you are not Drag Racing and want a cool sounding and smooth shifting tranny for the street, then I prefer the T-5. I've heard the Richmond 5 & 6 speed tranny is very cool too, but that's a whole lot of $$$ and for racing too.

RapRap
1940 Chevy Coupe

I guess i can be real happy with 19-22 mpg than . Yep i run the fentons and pertronix unit also. The thing is real happy at 70-85 mph with the motor barely turning. Before the rear gear swap and 5 speed i dont think i every saw 12 mpg but the motor was all stock and real high mileage. This motor was done on a budget no high buck parts but the fentons.Total cost 1120. bucks . So i like them old inliners. Drive it every day and put over 15000 a year on it. I think your intake and carbs cost more than my whole motor.LOL Someday i will build a big one but this one is too darn dependable now to change.LOL Plus i could not fit my A/C with multi carbs the way i have it now.

Dave-
Don't be fooled by all that glitters. My Offenhauser 3x1 Intake, Carb adapters and 3- Holley/Weber carbs(rebuilt)with linkage and air cleaners cost just under $300.00 from Stovebolt Engine Co. Not too bad for lots of air and fuel passing through your right foot!
It also gets the most attention when the hood is opened.
If you are considering Air conditioning, call Tom Langdon @ Stovebolt. He'll set you up with what you need. He's very helpful and knowledgeable about all things GM inline.
Hey anytime you get 20mpg+ is smokin'!

RapRap
1940 Chevy Coupe

I think i have the A/C pretty well covered.I have built them now for the 235 and 261 for about 20 years with great success. The carbs that i us is out of a swap meet for 20 bucks and i dont use water to heat it as i found a HP loss using it. Guy up here helped me after Tom could not help much with the automatic change over that went really sour several times after a lot of money.So i pretty much go with what he shows me now.Lets just say him and Tom dont see eye to eye and leave it at that.I even have one of his special ground billet cams that he has been having made. I think thats were i am getting my mileage. I agree it preety neat to see all those carbs under the hood,but i am lazy.I like to just check the oil.LOL Maybe a 347 GMC next time!! But at the rate i am going this thing will out last me. Before the cam and intake my best was about 17mpg and i thought i was king until the other guy i speak of helped me tweak it just a little and bingo i am running in high gear on the highway all the time and not stopping for gas as often. That does not happen all that often. I am a happy camper.
Dave

Tell us more about your special ground billet cam, Dave. Solid or hydraulic lifters? What are the duaration and lobe center numbers? Inquiring minds want to know...