Inliners International Forums General Discussion Drive Train 235 tranny/rear swap

i'm going to be putting a 1960 235 in my 48 chevy and eventually hopping it up (not sure how much yet, but something respectible for a street cruiser). I have a 54 chevy rear (torque tube/3.7 gears), a ford 9", and the stock 48 rear at my disposal. I have the option of buying the manual tranny that came with the 235. My questions are:

1. would i be better off with a different tranny, or will the stock one be able to handle a hot motor? what would a good choice be? i definitely want to keep the 3 speed column shifter.

2. will any of those rear ends work, or would i be better off getting a 70 something nova rear end out of a junk yard? i'm pretty sure the ford would require a lot of effort to make it fit.

thanks,
joe


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'50 Chevy Fleetline DeLuxe
'48 Chevy Fleetmaster coupe
Chicago

Hellfish:

I'm a new guy here, and just getting back to my 'roots' of older Chevies. I will not claim to have anywhere near the technical knowledge I've seen in the 2 weeks I've been reading the posts I see, but I will offer you my experiences.

I was able to completly trash 2nd gear on a torque-tube transmission with a STOCK 216 back in '61, so if you intend to drive it hard, beware. I think (but not 100% sure) that the '48 trans is the same as the '54 as far as design and dimensions. If you want to keep the column shift 3 speed, but want a heavier transmission, I would think your best bet would be to go with a '55 or later 3 speed with an open driveshaft. I'd think an all Chevy set-up from trans to rear ('55-57) would be the easiest.

I'm presently running a 216/torque tube, but am going to convert to a 235/open driveshaft with a Saginaw 4 speed and '55 Chev rear later on this year. These parts were fairly cheap and easy to find.

The tranny that comes with this 235 will be fine but will dictate that now you must go to open drive line. You could also stick with the 48 trans and 54 rear end if you drive like a normal person. But if your going to race the thing from stop light to stop light you're going to need a more beefy set up.

I'm in the final stages of my 47 Coupe rebuild; 235, stock trans, 3:55 gear in a '54 rear end. I keep telling myself I should have gone open drive line but now I'm in this thing much to far to turn back now. So I suggest you really think this through before you begin. Once you're stuck with 50 plus year old parts the rebuilding never ends.

There is very little that changed strength wise in chev three speeds from 40-63, in fact the cluster gear stayed the same. Other changes did little to improve strength.
The most common failure is from lack of oil due to the common leaking problems torque tubes have both externally and internally back into the differential.
If your trans is in good shape to start with it will take some abuse.
Make sure the seal in the torque tube is also good.

Hitork - are you saying that a 48 216 manual tranny will bolt right up to a 60 235? that might be a short run solution so i can get the car on the road this summer, but in the long run it sounds like an open driveline will be better.

joe

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'50 Chevy Fleetline DeLuxe
'48 Chevy Fleetmaster coupe
Chicago

Any 216,235 or 261 (or GMC) motor will bolt up to all 6 cyl. bellhousings from 1937 to 1962. The transmissions however are the snag. Sounds like you can get a manual tranny with the 235 deal, if that's the case your '48 passenger car bellhousing will not bolt up to this tranny. Bellhousings from say a 51 pickup will bolt to either your 216 or 235 and have the holes (one above another facing foreward) that your factory passenger 48 side motor mounts need. As you can see all the swapping can get complicated plus when you change something like a bellhousing then this affects the trans and crossmember and rear end etc etc. You can lean towards the stock bellhousing/trans/rear end to keep things simple or go all the way, it's up to you.

Is the '48 a car or truck?

it's a 48 car (fleetmaster coupe)
i do have the option of buying the manual tranny along with the 235, but the idea of not having to buy it was interesting!

joe


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'50 Chevy Fleetline DeLuxe
'48 Chevy Fleetmaster coupe
Chicago

The trucks started using the good tranny bolt pattern in '47 and the cars started using it in '55. What this means for you is that if you use a 47-54 truck 3spd, you can use the torque tube setup, but you can change it later on to open driveline without needing to change the bellhousing. So using the 47-62 truck or 55-62 car bellhousing would be my recommendation. It will allow you to use either drivetrain style. Your stock '48 car tranny will not work, however with the later housings.

Double check the length of your stock '48 trans compared to the later car/truck torque tube type trans units. I know the 41-48 passenger is the shortest, not sure how much the 'U' joint will allow you to stretch or slide back to accomodate the longer later trans.

Also if you go to any later trans you will need to get the 'H' box unit off the later column to shift it.

Modifying the linkage and the shifter arms on the tranny I can see, but why would you need to change the box on the column?

'48 Chev passenger should be the last year for the vacuum shift, if so the column components are weird. One big shift lever at the trans and one tiny lever, by '49 all was gone and a more conventional type of shifting mech. was standard. As long as you stay with original 48 trans and shifing components you're ok, changing the trans will necessitate the change in shift levers.

Uh oh. do you mean i have to change the linkage or pretty much everything from the tranny up to the shift knob? That doesn't sound too hard IF i had the 60 shifter... which I don't. I'll check with the guy with the engine and see if he can part with it. he's dropping in a 350, of course, so i doubt he'll need it, but he'll probably want a lot for it.

Thanks for all your help! this is VERY useful!
joe

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'50 Chevy Fleetline DeLuxe
'48 Chevy Fleetmaster coupe
Chicago

it looks like i MIGHT be able to get my hands on a junk '55 chevy 3600. would that rear work, or is it too big? how many lugs? it's really hard to find old cars/trucks in the midwest, so i'm probably pretty limited with my choices.
thanks,
Joe

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'50 Chevy Fleetline DeLuxe
'48 Chevy Fleetmaster coupe
Chicago

Forget the 3600. Re. your 48, not sure if you said the stock trans worked or not. If the stock stuff works, shifts good etc. you're fine. If you have a junk 48 trans and cannot rebuild it and or the vacuum shift if bad, then you need to think about this later type trans. Now lets say you need to swap to a later type trans or change the stock unit to later type H box, call Buffalo re. shift levers etc. he is the GURU on all this stuff and can really solve your problems. Buffalo has the BIG ad on home page of this site.

Just what do you really want to do with this car? There is no point in doing everything twice. Do you have the proper equipment? MIG or TIG welder? garage space? just how rough is this car? Do you what 5 or 6 lug wheels?

As said, if the current drivetrain is in working order, the '60 engine can be swaped out for the 216 and reuse everything else. The waterpump may need to be shortened and the front motor mount may need some attention, but that should be most of it.

The next option would be all of the above, and to swap out the rearend for one from a 50-54 car with powerglide tranny as these had 3:55 gears. It will have 5 lugs, but your '48 axles and drums can be swaped if you want to stay with 6 lug.

Option #3 : I haven't tried this, but it makes sense to me. Using the 47-54 truck 3spd with the later bellhousing and the 3:55 rearend. The reason I say it should work is that the 50-54 'glide rearends have been swaped into both 41-54 cars and 41-54 trucks. I would measure the distance from the bellhusing to the axle centerline of both just to be sure. Your '48 and the 47-54 trucks both have a 116" wheelbase. The other issue here would be hooking up the column shifter.

Column shifter. Obviously I know nothing about vaccuum shift, or how your H box is setup, but I would think that if it has 2 arms, then it could be modified to work (change length of arms), since the later ones that Hitork mentions have 2 arms. But if it has only 1 arm, then swapping out or going aftermarket to Buffalo's as mentioned could be the solution. the other choice would be to convert to a floor shifter.

Open driveline. You will need the later bellhousing. You can use almost any '55 or newer tranny, including the T5. Truck rearends aren't really suitable as they either have lousy gearing or are too wide/narrow. In other words, your 6 lug options are very limited. The only ones I know of would be the 55-59 1/2 ton, 4X4 blazers (years??), and possibly some import trucks (Toyota, Nissan ???). The 55-59 are a couple of inches wider and do not come with good gearing, which means buying aftermarket 3:36 gears ($$$$) to make it useful. I have heard of guys using the blazer rearends in the 47-54 trucks, but I don't know what years or if it's the big or little blazer they are talking about. Same for the import rearend. Don't know what years, etc...
5 lug car rearends would be the better choice. 55-64 works, '70's Camaro/Nova as well as others. One thing to consider is what you intend to use for rims, as having them stick outside the fenders is not a good idea. Most aftermarket rims can be ordered with a variety of backsets, but you should consider this when choosing a rearend.

Automatics. Don't. It will cost you alot more money, it will be more work to install correctly, your gas milage will drop, and the performance will suffer.

Sources. Try Hemmings Motor News. This is the best overall source for anything automotive. Get a catalog (or go online) for every vendor that you think you might do business with and compare. Gives you a better idea of what it takes to fix something up. You are from Chicago area? there is a salvage yard near Watertown, WI called Jack's Auto Ranch 920-699-2985. They have dozens of 46-62 Chevies rusting away, the parts in question are all there, just not sure about price or condition. Be prepared to spend most of the day looking around. Take a camera and tapemeasure. One of the biggest swapmeets around will be in Jefferson, WI on April 26/27?? Also a small one in Grayslake,IL on Feb 23. Also 2 in Waukesha, WI one in Elkhorn,WI another in Jefferson in the fall, Iola, WI in July. And Goodguys is having an event in Waukesha later this year. Try doing searches in the yellow pages for other salvage yards in your area and search the "events" section at www.hemmings.com

Thanks for all the info! Wow, it's going to take awhile to process all that.

i definitely do NOT want an automatic. I do want to keep the column shifter though.

The car is in excellent shape. the interior needs to be redone, there are a few pinholes in the driver's side floor, and the fenders have dings, but that's it. i don't know if the tranny works as the car wasn't running when i got it. the rear turns freely, but one of the wheels is missing 1 or 2 lugs. the stock wheels are 16" and i was thinking of going to 15" (5-lug) for simplicity. it will be lowered 2-3" so i will need to consider that when i get tires/wheels. i want to put skirts on the rear and caps on the front, so bolt patterns won't matter a great deal. i want to make this into a "traditional" kustom, so i don't want to use modern parts, like the blazer or toyota, unless it's unavoidable. so that means drums all around and nothing later than the early 60s.
i didn't know about that junkyard in WI! i'll have to check it out.

thanks again!
joe


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'50 Chevy Fleetline DeLuxe
'48 Chevy Fleetmaster coupe
Chicago

[This message has been edited by Hellfish (edited 02-06-2003).]

Well, you might find having 2 different patterns a problem if you ever get a flat tire! I think you can use 49-54 spindles, brakes, etc... on your '48 if you want to change over to 5 lug, but I have never tried this, so not sure about the details. Consider upgrading to a dual master cylinder also.

Did your 235 originally have an automatic behind it? if it did, it may not have provision for a pilot bushing in the end of the crankshaft. Check on that before you go too far with it.

also, 12 volt and 6 volt systems used different tooth counts, so don't try to mix the 2 together. You can use the 6 volt starter on 12 volts if you want to.

[This message has been edited by gearhead (edited 02-06-2003).]

If you go to an open driveline consider a mid 80's s10 blazer 4x4 rear end. They are plentiful in the midwest salvage yards and are about the correct tread width. 5 lugs, drum brakes and if you look in the glove box door there is a label that will tell you what ratio it is. I run one in my 37 sedan with steel wheels and baby moons. Looks like the sixtys.

Gael

FYI- my own '47 coupe drive train:
Old 47 235, original tranny, rebuilt with all new bearings & needle brg cluster. Has Buffalo, side plate to use with new 'H' box and stock shift lever, 3:55 gears/torque tube from 51-54 pass, and now a 54 rear axle for the 5 lug wheels & modern rear brakes,(prior to this re-do, I ran stock 6 lug rear end with 3:55s).

Oh yeah, up front have stock suspension but with modified spindles and 5 lug disc brakes. Running 15' steel wheels and full wheel covers, looks as original except for lowering about 2-3" all the way around.
Can't tell you how much help I've gotten from Buffalo on all this stuff, he knows late 40s to 50 better than anyone.

yeah, i'd rather avoid unmatched lug patterns if i can. A dual master is definitely on the to-do list.

the 235 is complete from carb to oil pan and has a manual tranny, 12v stock generator, and was on a daily driver 60 Brookwood from AZ. the guy i bought it from is supposed to pull it this weekend and i'm waiting to hear back from him about the shifter and linkage. What's the H box anyway?

i found someone with a early 70s nova rear for $100, or i may be able to get the rear from a 60 chevy from a junk yard i know of (might get the whole car for $100 ). i need to look more into those options and take some measurements this weekend. i've heard the S10 will work, too, so i've been keeping that option in the back of my mind.

thanks again!
joe


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'50 Chevy Fleetline DeLuxe
'48 Chevy Fleetmaster coupe
Chicago

H box. I was assuming it is the linkage assembly on top of the column just in front of the firewall. Is your '50 a stick or auto?
If it's a stick, just take a look at it and compare to your '48. You should be looking at this stuff anyway, since you will need to know if the '60 will work or not. Unless someone can tell you for sure the '60 stuff will work on the '48 column, you're gonna need to figure it out yourself.

Make sure you measure the rearends before buying. Don't want to do it twice!

i'm located near you in ft. wayne, in. i have access to lots of old cars and trucks in the late 50s and all 60s. i also have a few 3 speed trannys and some rearends layin around, give me a shout if i can help u with your project. i'm currently working on a 48 chevy convt.