Inliners International Forums General Discussion Engines Offenhauser vs. Clifford

Will a Clifford 4bbl intake flow better than the older Offenhauser 4bbl intake? This is a loaded question, I know. When I look at the two, the Clifford's rounded corners versus the Offenhauser squared off corners (much like the stock intake on a 250 Chevy) looks as though it would flow better. Any technical info on this would be appreciated.

I think the Clifford takes the larger 4bbl where the Offy. uses the 50's style Carter.

John M., #3370.

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I think they flow directly in relation to what your head and engine may take,,, the clifford accepts many diff carbs via the different plates to buy,,, the offy comes setup (if its new) to use a square bore holley. some of the olders are modified for other carbs or you can build your own plate,(I did for a q-jet),, back to flow,, if your engine and head is setup for the flow,, higher compression, and head port work above the mild range the offy could be alittle choking,,,if your stock and mild porting the clifford could be alittle much, and sacrfice low end torque,,,the cam also has a voice, if its duration is higher than an off idle and up curve,, your looking for higher r's and need the flow,,so the engine should be ready to accept it..stock or a low duration is looking for torque(streetablity),, I think and have read many times on the board that the offys work well in that arrangment,, I think this is pretty accrurate info, but I am no prof..others I'm sure will reply,, you can also try a buzz to Tom Langdon,, is has a bevy of info,,,Larry Page on the perf. board has seen many diff. things too,, C-ya

Almost right John,

The Offy 4 barrel adapter allows any of the Edelbrock/Carter squarebore carbs to be mounted. I have a spacer on mine so that the throttle linkage will clear the intake runner. Mine has an Edelbrock 500 cfm 4 barrel. Works great.

To answer the original post, from what I've read (and it logically makes sense), the Clifford does flow more than the Offy - just by having larger runners. I believe the Clifford also flows better due to the aforementioned angle differences.

I believe the ideal street rod intake for the later 6s (230-292s) would have the Clifford design and shape with Offy sized runners. Water heat hookups (like the newer Clifford street manifolds currently have would also have to be factory cast in for good streetability.

-magic mike-

I may be mistaken but I thought the Clifford was disigned for racing, I believe circle track. The Offenhauser was designed for street use. I have a Holley 390 (4160) on my Offenhauser.

hello..interesting....as far as flow goes, dont forget that improving head ports and chambers is the basis of the airflow-the manifold only helps the head to bring in air.....

Lee

I have run Both intakes On and off the Track.
The offey Intake will use and squar bore carb. And it will also use the Q jet (spread Bore carb With the use of adaptor ) For street Use the offey is very good for low to mid range power. And works well even with a cam (with head work(ported 1.8&1.6 valves no boss) 12-1 compression an a cam) lift of 583/607 was the bigest cam I ran on the offey)But also worked very well with the stock head and a Rv type cam and a 600 holley. Now on the other hand The clifford was more desinged for the Mid to High Rpm ranges in mind. It be in the best interest If you plan on running it mainly as a street motor. Is to have the head cleaned up. Meaning the ports and the list starts here.
1)If Plans are a street motor with the stock valves clean the ports up , a good 3 angle valve job and some clean up or reshaping of the head both boss.& maybe having lump port work done to it.
2) If your plans are to use the motor as double duty (street & raceing)Then think ahead On What cam you plan on useing.
3) Then think about stepping up the valve size to either 1.8s or even a 1.94 for the intake and a 1.5 or 1.6 for the exhaust.
4) the next big issue you will have to think about is to either remove The head bolt boss Or lump port the head.

If You are plaining to run the clifford mainly for street It would be in your best interest to reshape the boss Or in stall a lump (either a bolt in/Or brazed in lump) into the head.Buy removing the head bolt boss and Not installing a lump You can lose some lowend power for sure.(with the clifford Because of the runner size.(volume) Once a Head has been ported It then Becomes UNSAFE To even think about doing the Braze in lump port. Old heads pour casting Are prone to cracking when doing a braze in lump. So the safer issue is to go with the bolt in lump.

5) Being the bigest issue of them all Plan&Plan and match everything to what you have in mind to do with the motor.And get the Head to breath. If the head can't breath good It won't matter what intake You have on it. Hope this helps }[oooooo]
Any other Questions Just fire away. That's what we are here for.




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NovaMan/Twisted6/Larry

Let me take this opportunity to re-ask this:

Has anyone done the divided runner modification on a Clifford Chevy manifold?
I think the objective was more midrange power.
I tried long ago (20yrs)using cookie sheet for dividers. Was looking good.
Then screwed up in choice of welder;
manifold kept cracking on him.
Eventually I gave up, buried it at sea.
I wonder if just a divider plate under carb mounting plate would do any good?
I think Holley does this for one of their v8
manifolds, divider goes in slot, plate holds it down in manifold.
There's surprisingly little in archives on this.


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Pete Geurds
64 Malibu SS
64 Chevelle 2dr wagon
64 Malibu 4 dr sedan

OK, maybe I need to elaborate a bit so as to let those of you with the info know what I am trying to achieve. I have done alot with "those other types of engines", but never a thing with this cool little 250 Chevy.

My Goal: Gain power without losing driveabilty. Passing power and towing power if I am practical. But, would enjoy surprising the big-exhaust-tipped-loud-muffler-annoying little economy cars built outside the USA, without hesitation.

Application: 1970 Chevy SWB 1/2Ton, 2WD.

Current Steps Taken: Purchased a Clifford Intake, Holley 390 cfm, and headers. Intake has a carburetor heater plate, exhaust heat plumbing located on underside below the carb area, and a 4bbl carb plate to mount the Holley.

Future Plans: Install a 270 deg duration cam with Rhodes lifters. (From what I have read, the Rhodes lifters help resolve vacuum issues, driveability issues when puttering around town) 1.75 Roller Rockers to improve reliability at higher RPMs. (keeping in mind the stud size will have to change to 7/16th and the bosses turned down .400" for the studs to fit. Install dual exhaust. I planned to port the head, but I keep hearing about this "lump" stuff and/or brazening--I have no idea what you guys are taliking about. Now as far as head work, I am game as to the best plan..bigger valve sizes, porting techniques, etc. I understand the concepts...but lack the specific details for a 250 inline.
This a freshly rebuilt (3500 miles) stock engine and must remain driveable except on my three day weekends, in which I can tear down and rebuild. Another note, I have a spare stock 250 head which I can modify, then bolt on over the weekend.

Thanks for your inputs. This is a great forum.

hello...nice project you have created......I think you have done great research-you will find lots of input on your project ..1) Rhodes lifters ARE Definitely the way to go-at least 2 cams in 1-why build a performance engine with a small cam? -get wilder and build for upper rpm fun....2)1.75 roller rockers are a great choice-check ebay,you will find many 1.7, 1.73, 1.75 and 1.8 roller rocker choices....3) Clifford makes great headers , you can also try the cast headers...4) match your cam to head work-if head isnt modified correctly you will bolt together something that sounds good but performs sluggish-check this ebay listing..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2452528202&ssP ageName=ADME:B:LC:MT:1

the above item is the Bolt-In Lumps/Plates that are mentioned and will change engine performance DRAMATICALLY......5) What type of trans are you using? if auto ,and using a stock torque converter, you should stick to cam of 210 @.050 duration or less and then Rhodes lifters are not really needed....You are smart asking questions....My experience is from Hot Street applications-recently finished building roller cammed, dome piston 292 drag truck ....many here have great ideas too!!!.....

Lee



[This message has been edited by LeeLites (edited 01-09-2004).]

PHROG_

First off Call PES and order a set of bolt in lumps And Hit your nearest Bolt supply place get 3 pipe plugs & 3 alein Head Bolts grade 8 and It will cost you less then 100 bucks. The lumps cost 60. bucks and a few bucks more for shipping.(shipping cost depends on where you live) The bolts & pipe plugs should only run you about 10-12 bucks maybe even less.

To install the bolt in lumps First Off the bolt boss needs to be removed. Then the head will need to be drill out& tapped at the top of the boss(head where the head bolt used to stop)for the pipe plugs.Then a area will need to be drilled on the bottom side of thehead for the retainning Bolt will go to Bolt in the lump. Then one of two things will need to be done to the lump or for it.
1) you will have to tapper the Lump or
2) make a tappered plate to bolt into the intake itself.
3) so no matter which way you may go about this It all has to be then blended together.

Now as for what this lump port does It makes the port smaller But increases air speed.(meaning higher flow numbers Makeing for a much better breathing head= better over all performance.)

The 270 seems a little more to most for a daily driver. But you will need to step up the stall speed if you're running a At tranny. If you have another head to start on and the cam hasn't all ready been installed yes it would be in you best interest to have the head built to match everything that you are plaining. but you are on the right track in your plains. }[oooooo]



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NovaMan/Twisted6/Larry

Chevelle292Wagon:

I think I still have a article On that from years ago If I can find it I will Email you a copy of it.It had showed were they cut a clifford intake in half up the middle and also had a plate that mounted under the carb.
If that would help you at all?? }[oooooo]



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NovaMan/Twisted6/Larry

hello... mmmm, well,The lumps cost more than $60.00 so again be careful what you believe after you read...also anybody can buy them and bolt them in-that will help performance DRAMATICALLY-but to get REAL performance more than just bolting them in is needed.... PES has helped me understand the full concept of what can be done to a head and how to reach flow #'s as high as any published #'s- I have built these heads that flow 255 cfm's @ just .650 lift and didnt have all the modifications done to them!!!!!!.....Its amazing what good info is here and what info is bad here.....but again you have a great project and have fun!!!!....these engines have been around for years -since 1963....thats 41 years....keep talking to as many as you can about these engines-try older engine builders-they know what will work and wont work.....its amazing how many people have enjoyed these engines and enjoy sharing what can save you time and $$$ in the long run....biggest thing i have learned in that you need to match your cam to compression ratio and match head flow to cam....this is basic physics about airflow- a big cam and no airflow is not a very good thing just a a good flowing head and a small cam is not a very good thing...Plan ,plan ,plan....

As far as Clifford runners are concerned, by dividing the runners you will create more airflow speed-this is good for low and mid power but hurts mid to upper power-just use a Offenhauser manifold-again what is your goal and how much $$/budget do you have?-it seems us guys seem to think we can just spend $$$ on this stuff and "Do it Better" than those before us-mmmmmmmm, think again-go search out those who did it for street and racing-they know what works-I have learned SOOOO much from older engine builders-coast to coast- about the myths of these engines and from my own personal experience....its exciting to see more interested as yourself about these engines...at this point i have gathered TONS of info and knowledge from the engine builders and my experience and wish i had had guidance years ago-there are some things that work great and some things that sound good but dont work...Biggest MYTH is cam design "Especially for Inline 6's"-Wow that could be a whole book!!!!!LOL.....I continue to find more older engine builders who had $$$$ to spend in th 60's and 70's and know where to spend $$ on these engines...be careful what most modern engine rebuild companies say about these engines-they never understood them- search out those who can help for sake of helping and not just "doing business as usual"....and remember the 292 cost the same to rebuild but has 42 more cubic inches and MUCH more torque-or course you may not have a 292 engine to rebuild, but if you had/have a chance to have both 250 and 292 you would understand-but Its ALL Fun anyway!!!!! let us know if we can help more and you have a great plan !!!!Just keep it Inline and dont be fooled.....

Sincerely
Lee


[This message has been edited by LeeLites (edited 01-10-2004).]

Hey Lee,
Have any pics of the 292 race truck? Like to see it.Would like to see that thing in action!!

Also, hate to sound stupid, but who is PES?

Thanks

[This message has been edited by SixPac (edited 01-10-2004).]

[This message has been edited by SixPac (edited 01-10-2004).]

hello...PES-Precision Engine Service...mmm,no pictures yet....
as far as cams for street use,its wide open...dont pay so much attention to advertised duration, for example some 270 advertised duration cams are 210 @ .050(@.050 is a measurement that is a better gauge and an industry standard-reading off cam lobe) and some are 204 @.050 and some are 214 or 215 @ .050)....I have used many cams in my engines over 25 years and enjoy a bigger cam with Rhodes lifters ...would enjoy hearing others favorites and what they have experienced-I hope to learn more on what works for others and what didnt- seems some "stuff" just doesnt work as good as others.....

Lee

Another question???

Does anyone make an aftermarket head for the 250 with these mods already incorporated? Lee mentioned PES, but I am unable to pull up a website for them.

One note on Rhodes Lifters. The article I read mentioned that a 264 dur / 206 @ .050 would actually perform like a cam that measured 10 degrees less, due to the lifters variable abilities. Thus making it more driveable at low RPMs. This would lead me to believe I could run a 280 degree cam, with a TH350 Automatic, stock converter, without an issue. Is this statement true?

Any Tech Articles sent via email would be great! And thanks for the tips.

Phrog - if you haven't futzed with your 250 head, Mike Kirby will do all mods to put lump ports in if you ship him your head. He has a pattern cutter set up to do heads on a mill and then brazes the lumps in based on the specific performance requirements you are looking for. www.sissellsautomotive.com

I have heard that the Rhoades lifters really put up a clatter at idle, but I have never actually heard them in person.

Looks like you nailed the clifford that I was gunning for!

[This message has been edited by Ken (edited 01-10-2004).]

Ok I just pulled out the last bill From PES for the last set I just bought two MOs ago from PES I guess there was a increase in price on the lumps and i didn't catch it They were 66 bucks plus 8.64 for shipping for a total of 74.64 Now don't that make you feel better.So this is the latest Pricing I have for them. Now unless they have gone up again. Whats the max.Flow you got out of them lumps so far Lee If you haven't done ALL the needed Mods for max Flow.And Whats the Max they will Flow with All The mods Made to them/Head.
I'm Not getting into another Debate.
I just want to see The Numbers. Show us. I know not everyone here has access to a flow bench or the equipment to do all the head mods That are needed for maximum flow.

So many may not understand the whole principle behind either Lump(boltin or Braze in) and sometimes pictures are worth more then just words To show just what is Or has to be done to the head with the lumps(either lumps)myself I'm working on putting a How to Tech articale together on how to install the boltin lumps. I have been working on a flow bench and cutting up cracked heads to show where you can hit water and were it is the safest to drill the head to install the boltin lumps PES also includes a templet now with their lumps.
A few other things I plan on haveing in the tech other then pictures Is different flow numbers showing different rates on different cuts(shaping,tappers)done to the lumps along with different Valve sizes. I'm also getting ready to cut a head in half from one end to the other so one could see looking down into the head not just a side veiw.I would also like to include some cut head veiws Of the Brazed in lump.
Buy what i have learned buy cutting up these heads is pretty surprizeing On how much Core shift there was/IS in these Heads.
We may Never be able to out do the the Old Head masters But we sure can carry on what they did and have learned. But if this stuff is never put up(Shared somewhere somehow it will be lost ??)
So I'm asking this to all Lets do something Besides ( I have this I have that ) Lets put it all together. I'm not saying that we need to write a Book But Lets SHARE
Pictures, Dyno sheet, Flow Bench Test.POOF
I'm sure we could Make for ONE heck of a Very Helpful Tech articale.

Ps so if anyone has anything and Wants to SHARE it for this Email me.
enough said.}[oooooo]


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NovaMan/Twisted6/Larry

hello...great comments.....I have learned so much from PES about these heads and how to make them flow TREMENDOUSLY..just as PES took years and $$$$ to research as do most companies with a product, I had to pay for what I have learned and cannot give it away for free..Is this a bad thing?...I took initiative to go find out about these plates 2 years ago and have lots to share-particularly after seeing NOBODY really knew!!!!... I was hoping this would be a very exciting thing to share ,but its been a challenge here....I have many things going on that is working and finding those that are excited to have this technolgy too...You are doing a great job with yur research-there is a lot there-PES has done it for over 27 years and the heads have not changed...have fun and as you say "Lets work together"....one thing to remember is how flow works with cam, compression and valve design-its a HUGE puzzle to figure out....

Lee

as far as flow#'s are concerned -the most I have done so far is over 260 cfm's on intake( lets leave it at that for now) and 172 cfm's on exhaust...so as far as Power manual stating the Bolt-In lumps can only flow 240 that is ,well wrong info....wonder who installed those Bolt-In's and who flowed them?

[This message has been edited by LeeLites (edited 01-11-2004).]

Twisted - you know you can make a small fortune working on inline sixes . . . of course you have to start with a big fortune.

I am debating hogging out my intake bosses and installing lumps. I'll go with bolt ins either from PES or make my own.

My job doesn't give me much spare time, but so I am slow making progress, but would be happy to take pictures along the way and report what I find.

Lee, for me it is a hobby that helps me keep my sanity - when it becomes something people get sticky about wanting $ for knowledge, sounds kinda goofy to me.

hello..wow Ken!!!!!!! I cant believe you actually said that!!!!!!....what do you do for a living? do you work at a company that makes $$$ or gives things away? You just made me smile!!!! thanks for your comment!!!

Lee

ps .. .I havent joined this club due to this type of response I get for trying to help...I am a Christian who believes in being very Hospitable...I will walk away from this Forum again because I see there are those whom are struggling and cant take the truth ....good Luck!!!Biggest thing I have learned in my life is how Jesus showed the Pharises the truth and they killed him .... I wonder why i get hurt when i try to be open ,honest and real here on this Forum?.....this is so trivial-thanks for helping me realize this....




[This message has been edited by LeeLites (edited 01-11-2004).]

Hi Lee,

Just stated that it is a hobby for me. I didn't realize you work on inlines for a living. You came across as sounding like you have secret knowledge that you paid PES for and that you are not going to give away for "free". Like I said earlier - sounds a little goofey.

That kind of proposition is based on a rather selfish perspective rather than the spririt of what I thought inliners international is all about.

I read Twisteds comments as wanting to put a good tech tip together for the benefit of everyone. Sounded like a great idea. I know I have benefitted from a lot of folks who have shown me stuff and helped me with details in putting together a few 235's and 216's in the past. Same with small blocks when I was younger - we were all more interested in helping each other out in a hobby we all enjoy together rather than looking for ways to ratchet a few bucks out of each others pockets.

For the record - I run my own business and from time to time I do give what "I know" away to people who aren't going to use it to profit from it. For me it isn't about $, it is about having fun doing what I do. I am fortunate enough that a few people and companies are willing to pay me well for what I love to do, if that weren't the case, I would be in deep doodoo as I am too lazy to do stuff that I don't like to do.

I have a great deal of respect for Leo and his efforts as well as the efforts of others who have helped me in the past and never asked for anything in return. When I am in the market to get parts and pieces for my projects - I buy from people and vendors that love to help people out. That is just the way I operate. If that bugs you then . . . sorry - nothing else I can say.

Well said, Ken. If we can't help each other out, then we don't need to be here. Joe

funny thing about all this is you guys wouldnt go find out what works best...I did.. I paid for it.... I am willing to help...all you can do is slam me for comming to you to offer help... next I paid for the knowledge and you want it for free...want my bank account #? and credit card # too?...you guys keep getting deeper and deeper..why not ask Tom Langdon for free stuff or Mike Kirby or free membership in this club...My Christian friends are with me on this and I have explained this to many...they keep saying same thing-Just stay away from them Lee ...you will keep slamming instead of being thankful..if you dont have a hot engine YET!!!!!!!I can see why-you will not accept help.....I wish the best and understand you....wish you would understand me sincerely trying to help...so good Luck and I will concentrate on those that do want my help and there are MANY!!!!

Sincerely and With Christian Love

Lee

Alright guys, I see we've already gotten into a pissing match here. Don't let this get too out of hand.

Lee- I've got some respect for you. I have to say that right off the bat. You seem to know what your talking about, and so far you've been willing to share some of your knowledge. This whole deal with the lump ports is getting way out of control. It's your info, and if you want to keep it, then do so. Nobody can force you to give it up, and I hope nobody will. From what you stated, you spent hard earned money along with your time to find out this knowledge. Anyway has got to respect that. Most of us find out the hard way, which is why everyone relies on each other for help. That way we don't keep doing the same dumb sh** all over again. The reason this keeps coming up is because you state some of your findings without providing proof. I really didn't want to say that, but I felt I had to. People can always state their opinions, but don't try and force the info down out throat as being "This is the way it is." I think the last thing anyone needs if for you or anyone else to leave this board. I say we drop this argument and get back to PHROG_Gunner's post. After all isn't that where this all came from. Sorry, but just had to say some things before I pass out (too much work). Take my words with a grain of salt. John.

Ken
I'm not that interested in the fortune.Just trying to do what i can.And pass along what i learn... And I spend My own money to be on a flow bench. So inturn I have learned How to flow heads in the first place. And buy Paying for someone else time and machine I have Come to
Learn how to flow heads AND to Makeing my own lumps Out of 6061 billet alum. I also have my own business and I bust my butt at it. And I spend what time I have to try and make things & Learn to help us out as there isn't many out there who make stuff FOR us inline people to start with and what few are left seem to be Leaveing So I'm doing what I can. I may Give away what I learn and I DON't Have a problem with that But I don't give what I make away for Free There Is a Big Difference. I had To pay for Other peoples design On Bell cranks Just So I could Go and Make One better. Just like the plates to mount them. I also build my own Intakes But this is all besides the point. But I also had Help when it came to making any of this stuff.I had to learn somewhere Right. And asking is the only way to learn.
One Set Of Lumps I got I got for Free From PES Reason I got them Was to put this Tech together In The first Place. So see some peope do give up stuff for FREE Heck I even gave away the set i bought from PES when I started to make my own simply because i had no use for them. But i do sell & install many of his lumps.

So I started on this tech thing and I will not put it all together Till I feel have all the pictures I feel that is needed. And make It as informative as I can. That way anyone building a head wanting the bolt in lumps. Can Give his or her Machine shop(or in back yard) The right way to do this.And I know Not all this can be done in ones back yard, at least not the right way Unless you have the machines to do it.

Now on to Your Info Lee You have showed us Nothing For that matter You went back and Deleted Most all you postings in the past. And as for you paying for Info NO You paid for his time and machine to Flow these heads not just for what he knows. Just like me I paid for the guys time & machine and what he knows, AND now I just pay for the time spent on his machine I do all the settup and I do all the work & testing when I'm their. So I give what info I learn to others. But yes i do charge them for the work or the products made. and many of them are club members.
And Yes we may pay dues But We also give the info/Tech Tips in the 12 for FREE As well as here. Because we want to see The Tech/info. Sure we may pay to have the 12 port. But Not everone who is in this club has computor access like most of us.But Just like any other Club there are dues But how many out there have as News letters of more then just one page. And I'm sure they have someone print it and That does have to be paid for oneway or another.

And All you can say is over 260 and lets leave it at that Hummmm. Funny thing is I don't see were PES bolt in will out flow Kirbys Braze in (But it is possiable??)

And as for the About 240 printed in LEO,s book It Was Mike Kirby or Glen Self who that info was gotten from ,is who I beleave Leo had told me when I once asked where that info came from. And Mike Kirby at one time told me himself it was around 240(not only) If he remembered right?? was his words not a quote.And Leo could only put in the book WHAT INFO he was givin in the first PLACE.!

So now I just have to add my2cents Once again. If what you paid for is So Secret and you can't give it up for Free Then why even Bother To say anything Just put it in a book and sell it and share it & make your Money BACK.
As for going out to find out what works Best Humm funny thing is I think thats why we come here and ask Questions. So I now would have to agree with Joe, Well Said Ken

Ps This BB is FREE But we The club PAY for it and is FREE for others to USE.! and as for FREE member Ship we give members ships away now and Then. I know this for a FACT i personaly Handed it OUT. The member ship went to the best inline.And their Names were printed into the 12 port as well. And will I do the same again this yr at the Same car/truck show. So see somethings in life are Free. So if your not willing share/show us what you have and are going to leave once again. Then all i can say now is good bye.and don't let the door hit you on the way out we wouldn't want you to think your being Bashed/slammed again.
}[oooooo]

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NovaMan/Twisted6/Larry

[This message has been edited by Twisted6 (edited 01-11-2004).]

Its mine and im going to resell lumps that cost me 60bucks for 100 all day! I paid for those lumps and knowledge and now im going to make everyone else pay for my knowledge-cause knowledge is power and power makes flow and flow equals cash flow....so i got lumps.....and lumps and more lumps. Lumps of Lumps only $100 per 3 lumps(see my ads on ebay).....just cuz Starbucks gives you free lumps in your coffee doesnt mean im going to share my lumps for free. HEck a $40 markup on an item that i didnt even make....aint ****.....I was born to resell others knowledge at a premium.....cuz i had to pay for that knowledge when i farked up about 10 sets of heads and lumps of my own......and you better believe me now......that i am out to recoup those losses to PES one way or another......cuz i got the knowledge now and you all are gonna pay!

Gee leelights, it looks like your last post tells us why you are here again. I'm a Christian too, but have a slightly different take on what it means. I hope you are able to sell many lumps so you can recover your investment. Then, you will be able to share your secrets with a clear concious.

[This message has been edited by 51 El Plymino (edited 01-16-2004).]

Well if your selling them for 100.bucks and getting it,Good for you. For as ruff as they come. I'd hope you're at least cleaning them Up And making sure that at least the head bolt fits through them. Because I haven't gotten a set Yet That the head bolt would even fit throught.
But anyway good luck & good Bye.
because I'm done with your attitude just like many others here are becomming.!!

Maybe one day you mit come back with a little less arrogance & attitude to others.
So once again Good luck & good Bye.
I'm done with this game. }[oooooo]


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NovaMan/Twisted6/Larry

[This message has been edited by Twisted6 (edited 01-16-2004).]

Take a look at the recent Lee"lights" - also this is purportedly the first post for the new Lee"lights".

Looks like someone is preaching the gospel of the lump$ in hopes of bringing the hammer down on the real Lee?

Seems Paul had this problem while sitting in prison.

If Lee has the proper attitude . . . he should rejoice knowing that the message of the Lumps goes out whether preached in sincerity or in vain.

First Intakes 2.02 ILV

Insert evil laugh..



[This message has been edited by Brad (edited 01-16-2004).]

Some body call Mike Kirby, Glen Self, Jack Sommers, Leo and any others you can think of. Lee got them lumps figured out. They might as well close down while they are ahead.

Lee- You'r claims are clyde's finding's and you don't have any of you'r own. No racing records not even a picture of anything.

NOTHING PERIOD

Mighty6

You Hit the Head RIGHT on The Nail. I know all them guys are still doing research. Mike kirby with his new head design so it can be used with water.And The last i spoke with him he was in testing and cutting Of one of them new heads. And Flow testing the second one. And Jack somers is still doing some testing himself. I also speak with him as offen as i can get to. I was hopeing to meet up with him this yr. at daytona But luck wasn't on myside this yr to meet up with him in person.
So how have things Been with you long time no speak/Email.}[oooooo]



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NovaMan/Twisted6/Larry

Things in Texas are going good. I come here pretty often but just read. There is to much arguing about air flow. Big flow number's doesn't mean big power all the time. Air velocity is what street rod poeple need. Us drag racers benifit from it too. Just not all out BIG flow numbers.
The power manuel Leo wrote should not be taken as the gospel as some poeple have. It's just a starting point or refence or better understanding of the componets. NOT the last word!!! I bolted PES lumps in to and have gotten more than the book states. It's a good start and easy upgrade compared to some of the things we have had to work though.
I'm pretty up to date on the King Sissell head. My brother machined a few part's for that head. We have one of the proto types at Craig's shop. Mike has dynoed one of the street heads. It made 300hp 375lb torque on a stock short block. Man, that's a nice street rod motor. A few more goodies and 400hp is right around the corner. I'm waiting on the race heads myself.

A gear change and a new Mark William's aluminum drive shaft. The MIGHTY6 is ready to take a shot at the 9 second zone. The weather will have to be perfect though.

My web site has been updated www.mighty6.com

Steven

P.S. The monte at the bottom of my web page is NOT inline powered. I offered to crew cheif if he would use some of my part's (NOS) that I was trying to R&D. It doesn't look very fast just sitting in the staging lanes but 8.30-8.40s in the 1/4 on 10.5 rear tires.

[This message has been edited by MIGHTY6 (edited 01-18-2004).]

That is STILL 1 Sweet Ride.One thing I will always remember Mike telling me, When I had spoke with him about the lumps i have been working and had showed him.And the good numbers i was getting so far. Is it's not just the maximum Lift flow numbers i need to be looking at, (ex. 700-800 lifts)It's the smaller lifts, (like from ex.200-600) that's where the cam is staying open the longest. Which to me makes a lot of sense. So that is where I have been trying to concentrate at/on. Because the cam doesn't stay open long at the HIGH lifts. sure it helps to have good numbers at all points.

Ps Good luck with them 9s and may the weather be on your side. Let us know how you make out when to get to making that run.
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NovaMan/Twisted6/Larry

Mighty6--How big a shot of nitrous are you running? Also, when do you spray it? Thank. John

We are spraying 125hp. This is a 175hp system. Change the solnoids to a cheater solnoids and the system is good for 250hp. We have a digtal delay box that can be delayed 1 tenth to 1 full second.When I let the trans brake go it delays it 1 tenth for our setup. The white monte has 4 tenths in it. It's a tuning tool for us guys that don't run wheelie bars.

Steven

Steven: Do you entertain questions about custom NOS installations at your site (or on the board) Don

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Stuck in the 50's AVOID the BOYD !!
1951 Ply Concord truck
1954 Nash Rambler 2 dr
http://www.picturetrail.com/elplymino

I'll answer any questions here.

The reason we are spraying only 125hp is because this motor was not built for a heavy shot of nitrous. A couple of my hard core team mate's think it will take it. We are just taking it slow on the jetting. we have about 20 passes on nitrous with no problem's.

These heads a prone to gasket failure. We have solved that problem. If it had nitrous pistons and cam we would have 200-250hp pills in it allready.

Steven

[This message has been edited by MIGHTY6 (edited 01-20-2004).]

Steven: Here's my NOS questions.
I will be using an Offy 3x2 intake with Carter/Weber 2bbl progressive carbs (1-1/4" bores)



Should I try to adapt spray bars into the carb adapter plates or tap in nozzels into the adapters? Or, should I tap into the intake runners close to the block intake ports? Or........? (trying to keep lines to a minimun)

I'm only interested in 50-75 HP Don


[This message has been edited by 51 El Plymino (edited 01-20-2004).]

[This message has been edited by 51 El Plymino (edited 01-20-2004).]