Inliners International Forums General Discussion Hi Performance FYI: Hydrogen Booster Article

Most of you will have read the large and interesting piece on building hydrogen booster systems for our old carbed cars. Some people had some success with it, but there were too many unanswered questions for most. This isn't directly about the hydrobooster. But it is related.

The article in question is in Motor Trend Feb 2005, under Technologue by Frank Markus. They aren't focusing on fuel economy, they're focusing on emissions but read some of the info on burning hydrogen.

"If we could add 70 to 80 percent more air than the ideal mix, no NOx would be produced. But at that concentration the fuel droplets are too far apart and they don't all get burned and the engine misfires. Hydrogen to the rescue. This fuel of the future burns so quickly and easily, even in low concentrations, that converting 20 to 30 percent of the gasoline into hydrogen allows the engine to burn all its fuel under ultralean conditions."

Now these guys are making the hydrogen out of the fuel, rather than water like us. But the idea is interesting that with hydrogen added to the mix you could run leaner -- save fuel. Earlier in the article they add this:

"What hydrogen does for an engine is allow it to operate cleanly and efficiently with lots of excess air..........."

Which is something of what we want.

I'm not the expert at all on these things, I haven't tried the Hydrogen boost idea on an engine yet either so I can't attest to it's value. I do find the idea really interesting though and it intrigues me to see there might be some truth to it. I've tried making my own hydrogen according the plans provided by others and didn't get near enough hydrogen (in my mind) to have it make a difference. I just thought I'd post this in case anyone else was interested in taking a look or reflecting. Have a good one.

Greg

P.S. Don't mean to plagurise or anything, tried to reference the author.

perpertal motion
fountain of youth
lead into gold
hydrogen boost

'nuff said

Yes, yes, yes. Heard something like that before. I'm not going to claim it works either, I've never seen it happen. I'm in fact not a believer. But the idea really interests me. Enough so that when I hit this article it made me think maybe there was a small amount of truth to it? These guys were adding hydrogen and running much much leaner than otherwise possible. It's not a matter of conservation of energy being violated. It works because you're simply using chemistry to run leaner and get better mpg. I haven't seen it work. But don't dismiss it out of hand.

IF your homebuild hydro boost don`t work, buy it off the shelf:

http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/tech-info.html

They guaranty it saves 50% gas or you get it for free.

I live in Germany so if I would order it I sure would have a big time to give it back if it don`t works, but if I would live close to Queensburry NY and could talk to them personaly I would give it a try.

Frank

Hi Greg . . .

I have weighed in on this topic before as a firm skeptic of the small electrolysis based systems - they simply do not produce enough hydrogen to displace gasoline in the combustion process - leading to the question first posed by Clara Pellar about burgers:
[img]http://www.rateitall.com/itemimages/29870.jpg?[/img]
"where's the Boost?"

However, if the article you have read is about the topic of chemical 'reformaton', now we're talking about a technology that can work if it can be made affordable and scaled down to a practical size: Can gasoline jump start hydrogen?

What alot people don't realize is that hydrogen like gasoline is not an 'engery source' it's more of a 'currency' or a 'carrier' of energy. Gasoiline is created in a refinery from crude oil - but it's less then 80% efficient in that 20% of the energy in the crude oil source is consumed in making the gasoline. Hydrogen has to be harvested from a source as well, and some sources are more efficent than others.

Some of the environmentalists that are big on hydrogen are attracted to ideas that suggest that water will be the energy source of the future - well maybe in the distant future - but not the future just around corner. This is evidenced by the fact that most of today's hydrogen comes from reformation of natural gas and crude oil: HyWeb Technical Article. This is due to the fact that available electrolysis technologies use more energy than the energy stored in the hydrogen which is harvested in the process - even in a large scale plant let alone under the hood of your car.

So what?

I think that hydrogen will be coming soon to a filling station near you (next five years give or take). I also think that hydrogen reforming technologies will end up in the cars we drive. This will allow for different types of vehicles depending on the use. Some cars will carry hydrogen (reformed from gasoline or natural gas at the filling station) while others will carry gasoline and reform it on the fly. Some cars will use hydrogen to create electicty for quiet city driving, while others will burn it using internal combustion. This could also include engines burning part gasoline and part hydrogen - giving the performance minded the the zero-to-sixty we want and the goverment the emissions levels they demand.

But this is just my take on things given what I've read.

best regards,
stock49

Links on the topic:
Progressive Engineer
Rocky Mountain Institute
CEES Princeton

That was a really good article in the Progressive Engineer, some really interesting numbers.

Quote
"I have weighed in on this topic before as a firm skeptic of the small electrolysis based systems - they simply do not produce enough hydrogen to displace gasoline in the combustion process"

The idea wasn't to displace it. The idea was to replace a percentage of the air with it. This new environment allowed you to burn normal gasoline, but at leaner ratios. Nothing more.

But I agree. I've looked into it (I wanted it to be true) and I don't see the volume of hydrogen produced to affect the mileage in any real way.

By my calculations (open to error) you would require approximately 100 amps (continuous) to produce approximately enough hydrogen to have it comprise 5% of the burning mix of a 250 running at cruising RPM. That basically means a devoted alternator added to the system. Nobody was doing anything like that.

I never wanted to bring hydrogen as a fuel into this, the article I read wasn't using hydrogen as the primary fuel. It was about enleaning the standard gas/air mix and it caught my eye. Just thought I'd point it out to anyone curious about the hydrogen boost idea (even if wrong).

Not sure if this will interest you all, but I guess Hydrogen power in some form is coming.

http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/naias_2005/0501_gm_sequel/

lol..'nother hydrogen thread eh! well i gotta add my own 2 cents as I've had the hydroboost setup on my site for about a year now. I made a hydrogen unit and PCV gas condenser...both which can greatly reduce emissions, u know what the hydrogen does by reading above...its similar to a site i found, but i found a site a while back that wasnt trying to sell anything, just rather saying what happens when u add a certain amount of hydrogen to the fuel mixture...but i believe it, but i will recreate a hydrogen unit before i need to aircare (emmisions test) my car and get results...that'll be in a few months. but the PCV gas condensor if anything keeps all the acid and oil junk out of your engine. Ive used it, and there were quite good mileage increases, but not all the time...still better than without it though, but the PCV gas condenser is to be used with cheap oils for it to actually work, i like to run premium oils which have additives to keep the oil from 'cracking' but i still use the unit because after a month i have over a cup of sludge in it, that would origionally go into your engine.
I quit the hydroboost unit because i got lazy in replacing the electrodes and it doesnt work when the electodes are gunked up. but ive used it and liked it, but the true test will be when i take it in to get tested. I will defiitely post my results...heck i'll take a picture of the results and post the picture so everyone gets first hand evidence of if it works or not.

if less or no NOx is produced that would allow us to run a higher compression ratio and still run clean, although it wouldnt change the fact that u need a higher octane gas, but thats the least of my worries...i just want to pass the emissions tests with flying colours