Inliners International Forums General Discussion Vortec 4200

I have been contemplating this swap into my 63 chevy II. Your info has been very helpful and I'm looking forward to seeing more on this thread.

OHCFbird what transmission are you using in your 68?

I'm using the Trailblazer 4L60E. I'm also using an Accel Gen7 DFI, with a TCI transmission controller. I was originally going to build a 65 Chevy II around this motor, but the guy decided to keep the car.

Thanks for the reply. Since you seem to be one of the first to get this completed I have a few more questions. How much fab work did you have to do? Is it reliable? Total estimated cost? What would be the best year 4200 to swap. I thought I read somewhere on another thread that you boosted yours, true? Thanks again for the info..

Ooooo... Ah....

http://community.webshots.com/album/396401896FjXaBc?432

Greg

Looks like HP tuners just released an update for their VCM suite that allows the home user to tune the Inline engine family from GM. Go to http://www.hptuners.com/ for details. This solution is more my style than a mail order tune, since I plan on doing "non-standard" modifications to my engine. HTH's -Chuck

If you guys go to HPTuners click on FORUM then on VCM Suite "getting started", then on I6 SWAP.Here I asked a few questions that I'm sure many of you have been pondering. It seems my automatic to 5speed manual swap may have these guys puzzled.What I really found disturbing was that they recommended that I try Westers!
Has anyone investigated EFILIVE, I think they support a Tuner package for the 4200 I6 ???

Andy, COuld you Pass along the Wiring hints to make this thing run. Still having a few issues........

hello all - great info on the 4.2 I6 - couldn't find dimensions (LxWxH) anywhere. Does anyone have that info? I have a primo 325 E30 BMW w/ shot motor - this would be a perfect upgrade if I could get it in. Any help appreciated.

Chip

OHCFbird what wiring harness did you use?

I'm running a combination of an Accel 'universal loom' and the factory unit. I do custom harnesses, so this is no sweat.

cool. thanks.

Hey OHCFbird,

What have you done to address the issue of the Cam Phaser if you're running an aftermarket controller ? If the phaser is not used does it stay advanced or retarded. I seem to recall from some of my reading that there's about a 24 degree range in the unit. Will it "Stay put" if not used or do you have to do something to mechanically make it stay in one position. I don't think it would be good to have it "floating' even a few degrees uncontrolled.

I got bit by the 4200 bug myself and ditched my 292 project for now. I'll get back to that project later for another vehicle.

I'm not sure I'm following some of the earlier info so maybe you (or someone) can clarify for me:

Does Westers or anyone else have a modifeid ECM or aftermarket ECM that allows the use of the Cam Phaser ? It's one of the features of this motor that makes it such a powerhouse I'd hate to eliminate it unless I absolutly have to.

Thanks,

I'm going to run the cam locked using a custum gear. I'm not exactly sure if Westers has the stand-alone capability nailed yet; there is EFIlive and HPtuners out for the 4.2.

Well I'm glad to see all the intrest I stirred up. Due to starting a new company all my hotrod projects fell to the way side. I haven't even had time to check this board in over a year. The Chevelle I wanted to put the 4200 in still has the old turbocharged 250 in it and it has been sitting for 8-10 months. Keep up the good work guys. At the rate you are going by the time I get to finish this car it will be a straight swap with no engineering.

Hey guys-I am building a turbo 4200 for my '65 Nova. Someone was asking about the ability to use the cam phasing....here you go!!

http://www.autronic.com/page_files/sm4_kit.htm

This kit will do it all....a little more $$ but well worth it in my opinion. I can also give you a great contact for purchasing and tuning if interested. I will be getting my Autronic this winter. I hope this helps and I will help in anyway that I can, although I am learning more than teaching probably!

Greg

"I'm using the Trailblazer 4L60E. I'm also using an Accel Gen7 DFI, with a TCI transmission controller. I was originally going to build a 65 Chevy II around this motor, but the guy decided to keep the car"

I was wondering if you are going to run a lot of boost pressure for high torque & high HP numbers.
If you are,, I would not go w/a 4L60, they cannot take that much abuse.
Just my two cents :-)

1. I could use the PWM output of the Gen VII to run the cams, but that would require lots of extra tuning time- not objective #1 right now (tuning yes, just for cams- no). I'm trying to get a good turbo grind figured out first before i venture into making 5-6 cams on my own.

2. Hank- You don't think I'm running a stock 4L60E, do you? It has all the available upgrades you can get. Until i get the whole T56 adapted, or a Supra trans, it'll stay a 60E. The exact same trans I have has survived behind many 750rwhp cars, and one 1000hp GTO.

"2. Hank- You don't think I'm running a stock 4L60E, do you? It has all the available upgrades you can get. Until i get the whole T56 adapted, or a Supra trans, it'll stay a 60E. The exact same trans I have has survived behind many 750rwhp cars, and one 1000hp GTO."

If you go to the Sy/TY website (http://www.syty.net/forums/search.php?searchid=587476)you can see how the 700r4's cannot handle all the torque from boosted Syclones & Typhoons, there are switching to the 4l80E trans w/great results.
Alot of guys w/pretty much stock engines blow them up. Launching w/360-500 ft pounds on boosted launches.Even w/billet everything they still break them.
The guy that knows about 700's,4l60E's, 4l80-E's & so on is George Blake, seems pretty knowlegible.
Personally I am not a big fan of the gear spacing of the 700r4's/4l60-E's.
But it it works for you,, great.

what performance parts are made for these engines? Like new intake manifolds, headers?

Well, doing research over on trailvoy.com, a stock TB 4200 will take 6-8 psi of boost stock. The only problem is the computer and tuning it. Im not that advanced, but from what I gather the engine uses a MAP setup, so that when boosted it cant allow for the extra pressure and cant supply enough fuel to meet the oncoming air.

Is there anyway to convert the engine to run on MAF instead? Wouldn't this be more boost friendly?

Heres a link with some good info, but the whole tuning issue is still very vague for me...

http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=5386

You do not need to switch over to MAF.
Sounds like they are experimenting???
Nice to see someone trying to do stuff, but I think they need more info before they blow-up that engine.
They should start off w/a better fuel pump, not just a KB boost-a-pump.
Other issues they need to look into also.

I asked Tom about his opinion, and it seem this engine would be better to start with than an older 292.

I could go stand alone as Tom has said using a commander efi setup, not sure how I would do timing and ignition, but it can be figured out.

my main concern is the DOHC. I think they are variable, and I'd have no way to control it. Honestly I'd like to just lock everything down, so that Im only controling ignition and fuel.

Whats yall thoughts?

cajundragger,,,,,, talk w/OHCFbird
he is installing one(a 4200) in his 68 Firebird?? w/a turbo.
I am sure he can give you good advise on parts needed/ EFI used & all that good info.

Goodluck!!

I agree w/milnersXcoupe x2

I was under the impression that the computer was still a trial thing, and that it wasnt set in stone that it was hacked. I emailed westers, I'll see what happens.


Im still confused about using a manual transmission..I dont want a NV-4500, I want more of a T5 or T56, some tighter shifting, maybe even a muncie 4 speed. What other transmissions are available?

What about transmission? I want to run a manual 5 speed, but the NV-4500 is too truck like, I want something firmer. If I use the 5 speed out of a 5 cylinder colorado, can I use the stock clutch and everything?

What comes w/the 4.2 engine a 4l60E?
That's a decent trans.
Sticks are kinda lousy w/a turbo.
Maybe you can switch to a 4l80e?

Using the Colorado\Canyon bellhousing, you can use the R154 5-speed out of the 87-92 Supra Turbo. Good gear ratio's and not truck like at all.

Greg

so would I use a supra clutch correct? How would this connect to the flywheel? Or would I need a custom flywheel?

Okay, I did some talking with my brother who is big into tacomas...a R150F I think it is comes in 6 cylinder tacomas and is pretty strong. He says I can get that trans real cheap so I think I will go with that.

Im thinking I get a clutch that matches the transmission and get a custom flywheel for the engine to accept a stick correct?
How will the clutch fork and stuff work with the other bellhousing? Or do I use a colorado clutch and fork and everything, and somehow the transmission will fit the colorado clutch?


and Hank, I love driving stick, and un fortunatly I drive a full size GMC as a DD, so I want a stick in my project for the fun factor...

cajundragger ,,,,,,,,,,,
I own a GMC Syclone & for every street race I have done, I have not lost, it's not the fastest ,but 0-60 almost nothing can beat it.
You just hold the brake down, let the boost come up & bammm! 1.71-1.84 60ft times. It would be really hard to launch a stick like that, w/a/stick it would actually run slower.
I am telling you, the fun factor is there w/a automatic & spanking everyone.
It's just so easy.
I would not have as much fun w/a stick trans & losing races.
Just my two cents.

I'd never do this truck to race it. It is solely for my driving pleasure, with that said I respect your opinion, but in my case I much rather have more control over what my truck is doing. Simple as that, if I loose 10 seconds in the quarter for going stick then so be it, I'll have a blast doing so.

That's cool, different strokes for different folks !!!!

along with the clutch question, isnt this engine a fly by wire setup? So I need the peddle assembly as well correct?

And if I can get a complete engine with the alt, I can use the alt to power the truck correct? Or do they cut the alt out the harness and I need one with a one wire hookup?

Cajun, you can use the Toyota R150F as long as its a 97 and later version. The earlier versions have a 6.5" input shaft which is too short to work in the Colorado bellhousing.

Greg

What clutch pack do I use? Colorado? Will the input shaft of the R150F work in the Colorado clutch?

Cajundragger, I haven't done this, but I keep hearing from folks that know how to do it. There are two ways you could go. If you use a stock 87-93 Jeep AX15 front bearing cover you can use the stock Jeep hydraulic throwout bearing. You can also use the stock Colorado\Canyon\Solstice AR% front bearing cover and use the stock GM hydraulic throwout bearing. All of this will fit the Toyota R150. You'll have to use a Toyota splined clutch disk.

Greg